RUE, to hit with missiles

[Shotofentropy]

Love R:UE, it has really reignited my interest in Rifts!
Noticed "Missiles" says 5 or higher hits, pg. 364 "missiles strikes" (I like the idea that missiles, even not guided, have a better chance to hit. Be it via weapon systems or what have you). But, is that just a bad copy and paste and they should be 8+ (per "ranged") or is 5+ correct?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Theoretically it should be 8+ in line with the new rules. the 5+ is an artifact from the missile rules being copy-pasted in every palladium tech game since first edition Robotech. nevertheless, since specific rules for individual items always trump the general rule, we can't know for certain if missiles were intended to remain an exception or not, thus without any more information than what you cite, we have to assume missles are the exception they say they are.

[glitterboy2098]

barring a correction at a later date, i'm just going to chalk it up to the fact missiles don't have nearly as many sources of to strike bonuses that regular ranged weapons do.

i mean, they are either unguided and thus at a -4 penalty, or guided with a +3 or +5.
and that's pretty much it. weapon system's can add a +1, and there are the occasional vehicles which give an extra +1 here and there, but that is nothing compared to direct fire ranged weapons, which benefit from WP's, weapon systems skill, a multitude of weapon specific bonuses, and the bonuses from powered armor or robot combat skills. direct fire weapons might need a higher result, but they've usually got plenty of bonuses. and when they don't have all that, they just use a straight D20 roll.. no penalty.

[Grimlock]

I know this is an old thread, but I thought I'd add my $0.02 for those who might come across this thread on a search, like I did:


I believe Missile/Rocket fire has a target number of 8+, just like all other ranged weapons.

I would apply the bonuses to strike from W.P. Heavy Mega-Damage Weapons to missile fire, such as a shoulder-mounted bazooka, or a launcher mounted on a tripod. For tripod mounted heavy weapons on VEHICLES, I would allow the W.P. bonuses to apply, as the weapon is not built into the vehicle.

For missile launchers integrated into vehicles, such as a tank or APC, I would say that the W.P bonuses would NOT apply unless the character also had the Weapon Systems skill, in which case they would apply AND stack with the +1 to strike from Weapon Systems.


:Grimlock

[drewkitty ~..~]

WP Bonuses are only applied when the missile is not self-guided as per the standard +3/+5 to strike standard missiles have.

Weapons Systems.....*thinks about it*...might be applicable to infantry missiles in the since that the launch system "helps" the missile "see" the target before it is actually launched.
But the Weapons systems skill is text out for using vehicle weapons/launchers.

[Grimlock]

WP Bonuses are only applied when the missile is not self-guided as per the standard +3/+5 to strike standard missiles have.

Weapons Systems.....*thinks about it*...might be applicable to infantry missiles in the since that the launch system "helps" the missile "see" the target before it is actually launched.
But the Weapons systems skill is text out for using vehicle weapons/launchers.

Gotcha. It turns out I didn't really know the definition of a missile. A missile is a self-guiding rocket, so W.P. bonuses do NOT make sense.

On the subject of firing NON-missiles, the W.P. Heavy M.D. Weapons skill caps out at +5 to Strike at 13th level. Adding W.P. bonuses on an 8+ target number is not that much different from have NO bonus to strike on a 5+ target number. You'll miss more often early on with the 8+, but the 3 point difference will be offset by the W.P. strike bonus by 7th level.

I think it makes more sense to just maintain the R:UE Ranged Combat rules universally for all Ranged Weapons, no?

[drewkitty ~..~]

It is easy if only reading PR literature to be mistaken.

•The standard PB missile is self-guided....or fire and forget missiles in real world lexicon.
•Then there are guided-missiles which use the launcher (ship, bot, pa, etc...) directs it to the target [laser, wire, transceiver]....which mini-missiles are the only examples in them in PB game books {that I know of......outside of maybe Recon/adv. recon/recon 2nd ed. Even then it is doubtful even then unless somebody goes and looks.}
•And there are rockets which fly a strait or ballistic courses depending....which are few and far between in the PB game books but are there if you can find them.

[flatline]

It is easy if only reading PR literature to be mistaken.

•The standard PB missile is self-guided....or fire and forget missiles in real world lexicon.
•Then there are guided-missiles which use the launcher (ship, bot, pa, etc...) directs it to the target [laser, wire, transceiver]....which there are no examples in the PB game books {that I know of......outside of maybe Recon/adv. recon/recon 2nd ed. Even then it is doubtful even then unless somebody goes and looks.}
•And there are rockets which fly a strait or ballistic courses depending....which are few and far between in the PB game books but are there if you can find them.

Wait, aren't mini-missiles really rockets?

--flatline

[drewkitty ~..~]

It is easy if only reading PR literature to be mistaken.

•The standard PB missile is self-guided....or fire and forget missiles in real world lexicon.
•Then there are guided-missiles which use the launcher (ship, bot, pa, etc...) directs it to the target [laser, wire, transceiver]....which there are no examples in the PB game books {that I know of......outside of maybe Recon/adv. recon/recon 2nd ed. Even then it is doubtful even then unless somebody goes and looks.}
•And there are rockets which fly a strait or ballistic courses depending....which are few and far between in the PB game books but are there if you can find them.

Wait, aren't mini-missiles really rockets?

--flatline

erp...misspoke.....*edit edit edit*
"•Then there are guided-missiles which use the launcher (ship, bot, pa, etc...) directs it to the target [laser, wire, transceiver]....which mini-missiles are the only examples in them in PB game books {that I know of......outside of maybe Recon/adv. recon/recon 2nd ed. Even then it is doubtful even then unless somebody goes and looks.}"

[Killer Cyborg]

RUE (p. 362)
Note: Except for multi-warhead and long-range missiles (both rare), most missiles on Rifts Earth are NOT guided. The rare guided missiles are +3 to strike, and smart bombs are +5 to strike and +4 to dodge.

Unless you're using a multi-warhead and/or LRM, the missile is NOT guided, and it does not get the +3 (or +5) to strike.

[drewkitty ~..~]

RUE (p. 362)
Note: Except for multi-warhead and long-range missiles (both rare), most missiles on Rifts Earth are NOT guided. The rare guided missiles are +3 to strike, and smart bombs are +5 to strike and +4 to dodge.

Unless you're using a multi-warhead and/or LRM, the missile is NOT guided, and it does not get the +3 (or +5) to strike.

soooo then......so called SRM and MRM are really rockets then. Having no guidance, self or external. Which does explain why Juicers can dodge them by side-steping out of their path.

[glitterboy2098]

note that is says "most"
there are guided missiles available, they're just not as common on the market. you know, that whole "post-apocalypse' thing.
it goes on to say that entries will list if they are or aren't.. though IMO for stuff printed before RUE, and for a bit after, it ought to be up to the GM. one would presume for example that CS and NGR robots and vehicles being used by those nation's militaries would be loaded with guided versions.

[Killer Cyborg]

note that is says "most"

Indeed. Noted.

there are guided missiles available, they're just not as common on the market. you know, that whole "post-apocalypse' thing.
it goes on to say that entries will list if they are or aren't.. though IMO for stuff printed before RUE, and for a bit after, it ought to be up to the GM. one would presume for example that CS and NGR robots and vehicles being used by those nation's militaries would be loaded with guided versions.

If the CS used guided missiles, then most missiles would be guided (setting aside the NGR for the moment).
My rule with "most" is that unless it's specified to be guided, it defaults to unguided. Few missiles are specified to be guided, though IIRC there's some Naruni stuff.

Keep in mind that this clashes with the RMB, which said that (as a rule), only mini-missiles were unguided.

So there seems to have been an unfathomable decision to change, somewhere along the way.

[Tor]

they are either unguided and thus at a -4 penalty, or guided with a +3 or +5.

Does anyone know which page introduced the -4? Did not notice that... was it introduced prior to RUE?