Question on legal psychic "tricks"

[Glistam]

During a recent game I ran, I pitted the group against a master psychic. I had him do some things that, upon reflection, I'm not too sure were legal or not. So i'll list them here and ask your opinions:

- Using Commune with Spirits (before the group even got there) to strike up a mutual benefit relationship between some tectonic entities and poltergeists in order to use them as minions (which of course the players fought)

- Using telekenisis to "catch" a missile that was fired at him, and then on his next action he redirected it to hit the person who shot it at him.

- Lifting a character several hundred feet up in the air and pulling them back down (effectively doubling the height for falling) in order to cause SDC damage to the character in armor (1 per every 20 feet).

[asajosh]

The uses of telekinesis seem "legal" to me. Sounds like a well seasoned telekinetic villain. Im a little sketchy about the commune with spirits bit, though. I thought ghosts and such didn't generally work with the living (unless a shifter enslaves them or something), but I could be wrong.

The important thing is: Did the players have fun?

[Killer Cyborg]

If you mean a rocket-type missile, then you'd have to spend enough ISP to counter the force of the rocket in order to catch it.
That's a lot of force.

Catch?
Not likely.

[Library Ogre]

During a recent game I ran, I pitted the group against a master psychic. I had him do some things that, upon reflection, I'm not too sure were legal or not. So i'll list them here and ask your opinions:

- Using Commune with Spirits (before the group even got there) to strike up a mutual benefit relationship between some tectonic entities and poltergeists in order to use them as minions (which of course the players fought)

Provided the spirits agreed to this, yes; though I'd have to wonder what he's offering them that makes them unwilling to turn on HIM (they're not noted for their steadfastness, and he lacks the ability to compel them).

- Using telekenisis to "catch" a missile that was fired at him, and then on his next action he redirected it to hit the person who shot it at him.

A missile, even a mini-missile, is going to be putting out so many pounds of force in forward motion that catching it is likely to give anyone but a Neo-human an aneurysm. Deflecting it is a lot easier. I would've called shenanigans as a player.

- Lifting a character several hundred feet up in the air and pulling them back down (effectively doubling the height for falling) in order to cause SDC damage to the character in armor (1 per every 20 feet).

I have to agree with Semisonic on this; it's going to require several actions and a lot of attention to do. Far better use of time and energy is to simply throw him into someone else.

[Glistam]

Thanks guys, I'm glad I wasn't too far off base in what I had the character do.

[drewkitty ~..~]

During a recent game I ran, I pitted the group against a master psychic.

..snip

Yep it was legal, you are the GM.

[Library Ogre]

I would think that any but the smartest of missiles is going to have issues compensating for it's own weight changing mid-flight. Using TK to push down on the front of the missile (or up on the back) should cause it to eat turf8). You aren't slowing it down or re-aiming it for a new target, so I don't see it being any more difficult than lifting a flowervase.
Another possibility would be to depress the trigger for making the missile explode (like when the tip hits the target) before your standing in the blast radius.

Now all you have to do is SEE it.

Go ahead. Pick out that detail on a missile going 600+ mph. I'll wait over




















Here.

[Noon]

Thanks guys, I'm glad I wasn't too far off base in what I had the character do.

What are you talking about - you consult US, A bunch of random internet strangers, and that justifies whatever you did?

Did you break any agreements that you had with players - about what rules you'd use, or how far your GM fiat can go?

Do you think you didn't break any agreements, but they acted as if you did (low grumbling, pouty, looked shocked, whatever responce).

If its the latter, suck it up - agree with them that they thought they had some sort of agreement, you as GM didn't break them out of that idea, and you broke the agreement. Then break them out right now!!! Say to them "If you want to keep turning up, turn up for these types of rules and this type of GM fiat (missile turning, the lot!)".

Don't try and hide from agreements you broke, it just makes you look weak and useless as an authority. Instead embrace it - the way you broke those agreements, is how it is going to be from now on! This shows the way you broke it was important to you - while trying to hide it just shows that saving your own butt is more important than the ruling you made.

[Rallan]

If you mean a rocket-type missile, then you'd have to spend enough ISP to counter the force of the rocket in order to catch it.
That's a lot of force.

Catch?
Not likely.

Well if you just wanted to make sure it misses you wouldn't need much. Flipping a rocket 180 degrees is gonna take exactly the same amount of force regardless of whether it's lying on the ground or flying to you at five hundred miles an hour. Of course, once you've flipped the thing it's far more likely to just smash into the ground or careen off into the wild blue yonder than it is to hit anything, but it's still gonna look hella impressive.

[Ghost]

If you mean a rocket-type missile, then you'd have to spend enough ISP to counter the force of the rocket in order to catch it.
That's a lot of force.

Catch?
Not likely.

Well if you just wanted to make sure it misses you wouldn't need much. Flipping a rocket 180 degrees is gonna take exactly the same amount of force regardless of whether it's lying on the ground or flying to you at five hundred miles an hour. Of course, once you've flipped the thing it's far more likely to just smash into the ground or careen off into the wild blue yonder than it is to hit anything, but it's still gonna look hella impressive.

I sincerly hope you aren't serious about that remark... Flipping the rocket lying on the groud is easy because it isn't moving, thus the only force on it is gravity - in contrast when it is flying at you at 500 mph it has a QUITE substantial amount of kinetic energy resulting in an large increase in it's EFFECTIVE mass - again resulting in the need for a lot more energy telekenisis wise to move it, let alone turn it 180 degrees which is the direct opposite of it's total momentum.

[shiiv-a]

well .. the idea of flipping the missile back on the shooter has its merits .. but like the majority of the people that have responded with a 'nay', i have to agree with them.

not that i'm all with the 'squash the idea' .. but mainly cause to snag a rapidly moving object and then to curve it about and then get it to go hit the shooter instead of yourself is nearly impossible to think about.

i highly doubt that even a super strong mind mage would be able to do that and still stand up to duck it out with the party after that stunt. i personally would be thinking that the speed of the missile*weight of missile*degree would be closer to the amount of ISP that would be needed for such a feat.

and as i have no clue how heavy the missile is, even 500*__*180 is a HUGE amount of ISP to tout about. but even IF the Psionic did have that amount and could pull it off. I, as an opposing character, would definately need a change of clothes .. IF i survived the missile's impact blast.

anyways .. just my thoughts on the subject. sorry if i squashed anyones feelings. figured to give my opinion and explain the why's of it.

- = - = - = - = - = - = -

on another topic of Psi control. Hydrokenesis - a little used power for the most part. i currently have a character with that ability who can 'filter' the baddies out of the water to get 'pure water' .. is this plausible or not? .. it seemed like the idea actually had merit, but now i'm not too sure.

[Mouser13]

- Using Commune with Spirits (before the group even got there) to strike up a mutual benefit relationship between some tectonic entities and poltergeists in order to use them as minions (which of course the players fought)
Though I don't know if you could because of their alien nature. I think it would be the GM call.

- Using telekinesis to "catch" a missile that was fired at him, and then on his next action he redirected it to hit the person who shot it at him.

catch/Redirected is out of the question their are no rules for it. And if their where any rules to catch it would be hard with only +3 strike and +3 parry(I believe don't have books at hand).

P.S. i Love using super telekinesis to multiple parry getting one attempt for each level

- Lifting a character several hundred feet up in the air and pulling them back down (effectively doubling the height for falling) in order to cause SDC damage to the character in armor (1 per every 20 feet).

I use this one all the time. But I give them a saving though vs. psyhic. I like using super and doing multiple at once.

P.S. Then again it is all about what you are will to allow. Though I would never allow it this could be the best kill power.(Stop ones heart, crush their windpipe). Though old F.A.Q. at something like this and it would be a called with no bonus(teleport lesser a object into person).
Generally the psionics powers have little or no restriction. It is only what the G.M. will allow(and what players will play with). Though be carefully if you do crazy that means the players can do it to. So be carefull you don't open a can of worms.

[Talavar]

By the rules you couldn't stop someone's heart, or give them an aneurysm, with TK, because TK needs line of sight.

[asajosh]

I keep trying to say we should add pressence awareness. Say I walk into a dark room in which I KNOW where the light switch is at, why can't I flip the switch with telekinesis as I walk in the room? Or if I see you standing in front of me with out any obstruction lest your clothes, why can't I break your rib that I know is just inches below your left eye and would stick into your lung and cause HP damage? It boggles the mind!

Simply because the book says line of sight.
i cant tell you the number of times Ive wanted a PC to use TK to squeeze someone's heart or something, but no go. That's the kind of thing that Bio-Manipulation is for (sorta).

Wait a minute... What if you had a PC with Telekinesis and Penetration ("x-ray") vision?