Base PPE

[Nekira Sudacne]

I would add them togeather, myself. I doubt becoming a magic OCC somehow REDUCES your PPE amount potenital...

[Razorwing]

I have to agree, OCC base trumps racial base.

My reasoning for this is simple, it takes years to learn how to beome a wizard, with a focus on building up you base PPE.

This is also why I don't allow players to switch OCCs into a wizard/magic OCC easily, since they haven't the training to cast even the most basic of spells. In this case, Racial Base trups OCC base (and is the only thing that will improve until the new level surpassess the old level). As a side note, most beings spend most of their PPE developing talents and knacks for other things, while would be wizards spent that time learning how to hold and build their base PPE.

If I spent my enitre life (say 25 years) learning to master the sword as a Knight (reaching say 5th to 7th lvl) and have a base PPE of less than 10, and suddenly decide to devote myself to the study of wizard magic, I am going to be at a serious disadvantage. Most of my PPE was spent durring my formative years on swordmanship and other skills. In time, I might be able to build my Base PPE up to a respectable level (say in another 25 to 30 years; by the time I'm a 10th lvl wizard), but I'll be way below someone who's been trained as a wizard since he was 5 years old.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The racial PPE base is for those with out magical training.

So unless other wise specified (very rare), anyone taking a magic OCC will take the HIGHER of the two base PPEs. This is how it works. If the Racial PPE is higher then that is used, if the OCC PPE is higher then that is used.

The same prossess is used when confronted with two mage OCCs...the higher of the two is used.(this is very rare also)

Exceptions: 1) Nightbane/NightSpawn mages use the PPE listed under the NB/NS sorcorer OCC, which is a slightly modified vertion of the racial PPE to give a higher avrage base, while it doesn't give any higher total possible PPE.
2) Creatures with natural magic abilities, only get what the racial PPE gives them.

[verdilak]

I would add them togeather, myself. I doubt becoming a magic OCC somehow REDUCES your PPE amount potenital...

I'm with Nekira on this.

I mean, if you are a wolfen and get 3d6 PPE as an adult, then you add that amount to the Magic OCC PPE amount. Seems only fair. I can see the whole arguement on why you don't and all that, but according to BtS I believe, it says something about how your PPE amount is used towards learning things, such as hobbies and whatnot. ( I may be wrong, but I believe thats what the jist of it is, I'll have to check when I have a book in front of me)

Besides, why not give the mage and extra 3-18 PPE, what harm can it do? Unless you as a GM hate to give your players any type of advantage, let the players have that little bit extra. Can't harm anything and may add a bit to the game play, and that is what we all want. A fun game.

[Ahulane]

I would add them togeather, myself. I doubt becoming a magic OCC somehow REDUCES your PPE amount potenital...

Thats the way my group does it, the only thing is we don't add in the extra if your a human. So if it was a normal human who became a LLW we would only add what he got from being a LLW and not what he had as a human before the training. It's not really reducing the PPE potential...its expanding on what you already innately possess, thats why the OCC's state "Base Starting PPE of...." Though for every other race we add everything togeather lol.

Something I'd like to have seen in the book of magic is a training time for magic OCC's like the Temporal Wizard from England. Off the top of my head its the only magic OCC that actually lists a training time in order to become one of them. This would help out by providing a time frame for more of the advanced mage OCC's like the magus OCC's from Fed Mag.

Besides, why not give the mage and extra 3-18 PPE, what harm can it do? Unless you as a GM hate to give your players any type of advantage, let the players have that little bit extra. Can't harm anything and may add a bit to the game play, and that is what we all want. A fun game.

That minor amount of PPE can be the difference between life and death...

The question I have is say your a Silhouette from Phase world...it says you get 1d4x100 PPE as a base for your race but you also are typically some sort of magic user...so this would mean that regardless of what magic OCC you chose you'd always have a base of 1d4x100 PPE and would never add the OCC base to your own? If thats true then the rules are fairly simple and just mean...higher of the two numbers wins, but what about when learning a new form of magic?

A Wizard wants to learn more about Necromancy and decides to make that his new occupation. Would you add the PPE base of the necromancer OCC to your base and take the new OCC's per level increase? or would you stay with the original base of the Wizard and its per level increase rate?

[verdilak]

I would add them togeather, myself. I doubt becoming a magic OCC somehow REDUCES your PPE amount potenital...

Thats the way my group does it, the only thing is we don't add in the extra if your a human. So if it was a normal human who became a LLW we would only add what he got from being a LLW and not what he had as a human before the training. It's not really reducing the PPE potential...its expanding on what you already innately possess, thats why the OCC's state "Base Starting PPE of...." Though for every other race we add everything togeather lol.

Something I'd like to have seen in the book of magic is a training time for magic OCC's like the Temporal Wizard from England. Off the top of my head its the only magic OCC that actually lists a training time in order to become one of them. This would help out by providing a time frame for more of the advanced mage OCC's like the magus OCC's from Fed Mag.

Besides, why not give the mage and extra 3-18 PPE, what harm can it do? Unless you as a GM hate to give your players any type of advantage, let the players have that little bit extra. Can't harm anything and may add a bit to the game play, and that is what we all want. A fun game.

That minor amount of PPE can be the difference between life and death...

The question I have is say your a Silhouette from Phase world...it says you get 1d4x100 PPE as a base for your race but you also are typically some sort of magic user...so this would mean that regardless of what magic OCC you chose you'd always have a base of 1d4x100 PPE and would never add the OCC base to your own? If thats true then the rules are fairly simple and just mean...higher of the two numbers wins, but what about when learning a new form of magic?

A Wizard wants to learn more about Necromancy and decides to make that his new occupation. Would you add the PPE base of the necromancer OCC to your base and take the new OCC's per level increase? or would you stay with the original base of the Wizard and its per level increase rate?

If a wizard multiclassed to necromancy, I would leave the PPE alone, i.e. no adding in the PPE bonuses from Necromancy, but I would give anywhere between a 1d6-3d6 one time bonus for the multiclass into another magic OCC.

As far as the Silhouette from Phase world, I would say that since the 1d4x100 is what they all get, I would add the PPE bonus a magic user would get on top of the racial PPE. Makes sense to me.

Thats how I GM it and like to have GMed for when I am a player.

[drewkitty ~..~]

If you look at what is says about mages Base PPE it does not say 'add to', nor 'in addition to' the race's base PPE. What it says is a simple statement of what 'is' or 'this is what you get'.

Read what the book says, not trying to misinturpret what is there in black and white.

The only times the char's race PPE has any bering on the Base PPE of a mage class is when 1) it is higher then the Class Base PPE 2) when it gives a PPE bonuse. Both are rare in any race. While Dragons and silhoettes along with others, have PPE bases greater then most mage classes give so they would use their racial PPE. While the only race/RCCs that I can think of that give a PPE bonuse are the Godling RCC and the DemiGod RCC.

[Library Ogre]

First of all, I talk about multiclassing magic types in the MoM manuscript.

Secondly, I do something a little differently from the book. I don't add PE to a character's PPE for their magic OCC; I add their racial base.

[elecgraystone]

as for an Elven mage having more PPE than a Human mage... why ?

:D Well, the elf race (conversion book 1) has a note after thier PPE. "(if a practitioner of magic, add this number to the usual PPE base)" So i know that at least elves add thier base PPE to thier racial PPE. It's the same with the d'norr devilmen. Some races get to some don't.

[Marcethus]

the way I do it is combine them including the human's natural 3d6

[Phadeout]

If you're going to add base PPE from Races, then I think Humans should at least get the measly 3d6 added as well.

I would go with BtB (by the book) since there is no rules and sometimes it's best to just go cut and dry... The original "intent" of the rules was that Human Magic OCCs had a Different Base PPE than normal Humans. That base, is equal to what the OCC gives them.

The OCC does not take into account races that have huge base PPE's (greater than the OCC to start). In that case, I'd give the character the Base PPE of the Race, plus the bonus from the OCC per level after 1st (do not add the base OCC PPE to the base Racial PPE).

Only add the Racial PPE onto the OCC Base IF IT SAYS SO. Elves, Atlanteans, and a few rare others would gain a bonus. It appears to me, that Palladium has taken into consideration what races should gain a bonus to their magic using OCCs. If they didn't take it into consideration, then these few rare Magic Heavy races, wouldn't be as unique.

There is no reason to give a Wolfen a bonus PPE base compared to a Human. Either give the base PPE to both, or don't give it at all. I'd say, by the intent of the rules, don't give it unless told so (or if it is higher then the OCC base, in which case, replace the OCC base).

If anything, this will save you some munchkinizm.

[elecgraystone]

If you look at what is says about mages Base PPE it does not say 'add to', nor 'in addition to' the race's base PPE. What it says is a simple statement of what 'is' or 'this is what you get'.

To be fair it never stated you replace the racial base with the mages base. It just states what each one is. It makes as much sense to add as it does replace.

Read what the book says, not trying to misinturpret what is there in black and white.

Only problem with this statement is that it never said in black and white, replace racial PPE with occ PPE. All i've seen are a few races that say "add racial ppe", but i haven't seen anything that said "don't add racial ppe".

[Phadeout]

Read what the book says, not trying to misinturpret what is there in black and white.
Only problem with this statement is that it never said in black and white, replace racial PPE with occ PPE. All i've seen are a few races that say "add racial ppe", but i haven't seen anything that said "don't add racial ppe".

It seems Implied that, only races that say to add their PPE, should add their PPE. Otherwise, they wouldn't have given those races that special consideration.

[elecgraystone]

It seems Implied that, only races that say to add their PPE, should add their PPE. Otherwise, they wouldn't have given those races that special consideration.

That's not the point. Drewkitty was making a point about what is in black and white. The fact is, no were does it say that you replace the racial base ppe with the occ base ppe. They sort of imply it in a round about way by saying that some races add it, but that doesn't mean that the other races do not. I think that they MENT it to work that way, but they didn't SAY that's how it works.

[Marcethus]

well the thing is we all know that palladium especially rifts has quite a few loopholes wherein for one race they made a rules fix but didn't specify. or that they meant something but it either got edited out of the book or somehow lost on the cutting room floor.

[shiiv-a]

well this is a case of " he says .. she says "

not a lot anyone can come away with from what i can see. the final result is simple, GM has the final say on the matter.

but i have a small question ..

it isn't IN the books from what i can see - BUT - as a character levels, they gain HP and ISP .. and sometimes IF they are mages, they gain PPE. my quyestion is this. do NON-mages get ka small boost to the PPE, in the off chance that they may change to a mage-type class?

reason i am asking it this way is because of the mystery behind the psi-stalkers. they have to 'eat'. thus if they want to keep a town contained, and then set about 'protecting' said town from the mauraders and such, and the PC's come tromping thru and find out .. the typical reaction now is to 'rush out and either the stalker' .. or 'rush out and feline-whip said stalker into leaving and NEVER doing it again' .

seen it happen IN games too often. its a head-game for the more experienced players to do this. me? .. i'm of the opinion that IF the stalker isn't killing the citizens and is rotating the people so no one person is bearing the whole brunt of the feeding, then its better to leave the town and its protector in one piece.

*shrugs*

[Library Ogre]

it isn't IN the books from what i can see - BUT - as a character levels, they gain HP and ISP .. and sometimes IF they are mages, they gain PPE. my quyestion is this. do NON-mages get ka small boost to the PPE, in the off chance that they may change to a mage-type class?

No.

Most people, as they advance, put any new psychic energy into developing new skills and improving old ones, rather than building up a useless reserve of psychic energy.

Magic-users, on the other hand, need a larger reserve of psychic energy, and part of their advancement is that they build a better one... larger, more capable of storing energy.

[shiiv-a]

k .. noted

was just wondering.

[Library Ogre]

k .. noted

was just wondering.

That said, however, if you want to develop a skill that gives more PPE, it would be a good way to model it; people who want more, but didn't bother to develop it earlier.