Rune objects vs. weapons

[DrBeau]

Other than the very basic rules in Atlantis, I don't think there are any creation rules. As far as rune items goes, see if you can get a copy of Library of Bletherad. It's a Palladium Fantasy book with rune weapons/items up the ying-yang (plus a lot of of interesting things). I use it as a general resource when making the occasional rune item for NPCs. I just sort of wing the creation process and make something that sounds reasonable.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I know that we have rules for rune/holy weapons, has there been anything published as far as other artifacts? I saw in the one rifter that they had a rune helm, but no creation rules. Well?

There's no specific construction meathod for rune ITEMS, but they can do a LOT of stuff. depends on your imagination .

[verdilak]

I use HU for rune items and the like. See the Magic Heroes section.

[kamikazzijoe]

The nightlands books from nightbane has a section on creating artifacts. Basically the same as rune weapons just that they can come in any shape and the various powers are geared toward the bane line.

[Reddenedone]

mmmmmm imagination.

I've always used the Alchemist section in PFRPG as a base for my artifacts... supplemented by some of the Atlantis references. I just use the GM godlike powers to create just what I want and need. Mu ha ha ha.

[DrBeau]

...I feel they're over-used in a lot of Rifts NPCs, too.

Really? All I can think of is Thraxus and various Gods (Thraxus is a Godling, so he falls under this category). Have I missed a bunch of NPCs with rune weapons?

(re-reading what I said...I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I'm actually curious about where the NPCs are.)

[DrBeau]

Rune pistols

Sigh. In reality, I could see these. The problem is you need a Rune Smith from a modern world. Most Rune weapons are ancient (or Sploogie creations).

I have a somewhat munchy friend that was trying to come up with Rune pistols. We all joke that he's going to be working on Rune sword-chucks pretty soon (10 bonus geek points for recognizing that reference).

[JTwig]

Rune pistols

Sigh. In reality, I could see these. The problem is you need a Rune Smith from a modern world. Most Rune weapons are ancient (or Sploogie creations).

I have a somewhat munchy friend that was trying to come up with Rune pistols. We all joke that he's going to be working on Rune sword-chucks pretty soon (10 bonus geek points for recognizing that reference).

I don't know of any rune weapons created on Earth, so whose to say that in a dimension 10,000 years ago that they did not have firearms. Each dimension moves at its own level of technological advancement, and its mentioned many times that their are ancient defunct civilizations (such as the First Race from Phase World) that predate even the oldest currently active civilizations. Plus who knows what weapons the armies of the Old Ones and those that opposed them possessed; in PFRPG you are only given the vaguest of information on the level of technology used in that lost age.

[kamikazzijoe]

Rune Flintlock pistols, I ***t you not. They umpart some of the gunslinger abilities, come as paired weapons, and won't fire without each other.

Seriously, I thought Madhaven was a good book and that the writer did a great job. But every time I get to that part of the character description, I groan on the inside. Aside from being stupid and munchy, they also seem really out of place on the character, imo.

~Semi

Dragon rods are rune pistols as well. They're in atlantis

[Scrud]

Rune pistols

Sigh. In reality, I could see these. The problem is you need a Rune Smith from a modern world. Most Rune weapons are ancient (or Sploogie creations).

I have a somewhat munchy friend that was trying to come up with Rune pistols. We all joke that he's going to be working on Rune sword-chucks pretty soon (10 bonus geek points for recognizing that reference).

I don't know of any rune weapons created on Earth, so whose to say that in a dimension 10,000 years ago that they did not have firearms. Each dimension moves at its own level of technological advancement, and its mentioned many times that their are ancient defunct civilizations (such as the First Race from Phase World) that predate even the oldest currently active civilizations. Plus who knows what weapons the armies of the Old Ones and those that opposed them possessed; in PFRPG you are only given the vaguest of information on the level of technology used in that lost age.

Yet another item that breaks the rules. It's a been a pretty consistent rule that Rune weapons are to have no moving parts (aside from the apocalypse horsemen's rune flail and now these pistols. and I suppose they don't have to move but you would think the hammer would at least fall.):(

[JTwig]

Rune pistols

Sigh. In reality, I could see these. The problem is you need a Rune Smith from a modern world. Most Rune weapons are ancient (or Sploogie creations).

I have a somewhat munchy friend that was trying to come up with Rune pistols. We all joke that he's going to be working on Rune sword-chucks pretty soon (10 bonus geek points for recognizing that reference).

I don't know of any rune weapons created on Earth, so whose to say that in a dimension 10,000 years ago that they did not have firearms. Each dimension moves at its own level of technological advancement, and its mentioned many times that their are ancient defunct civilizations (such as the First Race from Phase World) that predate even the oldest currently active civilizations. Plus who knows what weapons the armies of the Old Ones and those that opposed them possessed; in PFRPG you are only given the vaguest of information on the level of technology used in that lost age.

Yet another item that breaks the rules. It's a been a pretty consistent rule that Rune weapons are to have no moving parts (aside from the apocalypse horsemen's rune flail and now these pistols. and I suppose they don't have to move but you would think the hammer would at least fall.):(

Thats a good point, I'd forgotten about the no moving parts limits. I've alway thought that the amount of rune weapons in the hands of NPCs was to high. When the Angel of Death from Source Book Two has a rune weapon, which doesn't even fit her character concept of ultimate cyborg killing machine, its pretty obvious that its gone to far.

As for rune objects I've always liked the rune boots and rune bracers from Library of Betherad.

[kamikazzijoe]

Lets not forget castlerake which can be disassembled. All rune weapons are suppose to be one indestructible piece.

[Library Ogre]

Lets not forget castlerake which can be disassembled. All rune weapons are suppose to be one indestructible piece.

I got the feeling that Castlerake was either designed to be disassembled, or that there was major magic involved in that exception.

[JTwig]

Lets not forget castlerake which can be disassembled. All rune weapons are suppose to be one indestructible piece.

I got the feeling that Castlerake was either designed to be disassembled, or that there was major magic involved in that exception.

True, true. I think were a lot of people who play Palladium exclusively tend to forget is that the rules (I'm not talking mechanics), especially for things like rune weapons/itesm which are each unique, are meant to be a guideline and that the GM and players are encouraged to experiment and bend.

I personally feel that people should play as many different game systems as possible, it opens your eyes to different ways of looking at gaming. I personally credit White Wolf's system (especially Exalted) with making me a much better Palladiam player and fan.

[Library Ogre]

I think were a lot of people who play Palladium exclusively tend to forget is that the rules (I'm not talking mechanics), especially for things like rune weapons/itesm which are each unique, are meant to be a guideline and that the GM and players are encouraged to experiment and bend.

I can't agree with that statement; if nothing else, Palladium's system is filled with exceptions.

[JTwig]

I think were a lot of people who play Palladium exclusively tend to forget is that the rules (I'm not talking mechanics), especially for things like rune weapons/itesm which are each unique, are meant to be a guideline and that the GM and players are encouraged to experiment and bend.

I can't agree with that statement; if nothing else, Palladium's system is filled with exceptions.

True, but most of those come out of necessity due to rules that don't work or are worded weird. I've found that playing other game systems has helped players and GMs see situations from other perspectives. If you play a game that handles, for example, stealth different than Palladium the next time you play a Palladium game you might have something new and innovative to add to the entire group's experience.

Also, while Palladium maybe filled with "exception" (and its great that you are flexible) it also tends to attract its more than its fair share of rules lawyers (I've only seen more in a WotC game). I see it a lot on the boards; how many times have you seen someone post something on the boards that doesn't exactly follow the rules, but still works and is not unbalancing, but still get ripped apart for it for no other reason than it stated in world book X page 3, second paragraph, line three that it couldn't happen. While they will get very good support from some, they get more people that are upset with them.

I'm not knocking Palladium, in fact they make my favorite system and settings. I'm just encouraging people to see as much of the RPG world as possible. As an RPGer you can't deny that there is no such thing as to much experience.

[Library Ogre]

Also, while Palladium maybe filled with "exception" (and its great that you are flexible) it also tends to attract its more than its fair share of rules lawyers (I've only seen more in a WotC game). I see it a lot on the boards; how many times have you seen someone post something on the boards that doesn't exactly follow the rules, but still works and is not unbalancing, but still get ripped apart for it for no other reason than it stated in world book X page 3, second paragraph, line three that it couldn't happen. While they will get very good support from some, they get more people that are upset with them.

I've seen this in other places, though. Wizards of the Coast specific boards; TSR D&D boards. Boards and lists for Fading Suns, Shadowrun, Earthdawn... all of these have their rules lawyers who are rigidly adhering to the system, rather than the spirit behind it.

[JTwig]

Also, while Palladium maybe filled with "exception" (and its great that you are flexible) it also tends to attract its more than its fair share of rules lawyers (I've only seen more in a WotC game). I see it a lot on the boards; how many times have you seen someone post something on the boards that doesn't exactly follow the rules, but still works and is not unbalancing, but still get ripped apart for it for no other reason than it stated in world book X page 3, second paragraph, line three that it couldn't happen. While they will get very good support from some, they get more people that are upset with them.

I've seen this in other places, though. Wizards of the Coast specific boards; TSR D&D boards. Boards and lists for Fading Suns, Shadowrun, Earthdawn... all of these have their rules lawyers who are rigidly adhering to the system, rather than the spirit behind it.

Ya, Wizards of the Coast players and old school D&D players have some of the worst rule lawyers counted among their ranks. Unfortunatly, it got to the point that I can't even play some of the games they produce, which is a shame because Forgotten Realms is one of the best fantasy settings ever created.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Also, while Palladium maybe filled with "exception" (and its great that you are flexible) it also tends to attract its more than its fair share of rules lawyers (I've only seen more in a WotC game). I see it a lot on the boards; how many times have you seen someone post something on the boards that doesn't exactly follow the rules, but still works and is not unbalancing, but still get ripped apart for it for no other reason than it stated in world book X page 3, second paragraph, line three that it couldn't happen. While they will get very good support from some, they get more people that are upset with them.

I've seen this in other places, though. Wizards of the Coast specific boards; TSR D&D boards. Boards and lists for Fading Suns, Shadowrun, Earthdawn... all of these have their rules lawyers who are rigidly adhering to the system, rather than the spirit behind it.

Ya, Wizards of the Coast players and old school D&D players have some of the worst rule lawyers counted among their ranks. Unfortunatly, it got to the point that I can't even play some of the games they produce, which is a shame because Forgotten Realms is one of the best fantasy settings ever created.

how do you mean? just find non-rules-lawyer players.

[shiiv-a]

i do my best to not use 'Rune weapons or atrtifacts' if at all possible. well most of my characters do. as most are unprincipled with varying degrees of scrupulous leanings, they see the imprisonment of a beings soul in the item to be a horrible death.

but hey, thats my point of view.

i try, when its needed, to create or have an item created to fulfill an actual job. without having a clue how to do a 'link' .. i can only say to check out the "magic bracers" thread in the magic section. they were made for a warrior/mage from a different dimension for basic survival against the magics in Rifts.

it worked for her, so i'm not sure if it would work for anyone else. most don't seem to understand my kind of thinking. *shrugs*

[Crazy Lou]

...I feel they're over-used in a lot of Rifts NPCs, too.

Really? All I can think of is Thraxus and various Gods (Thraxus is a Godling, so he falls under this category). Have I missed a bunch of NPCs with rune weapons?

(re-reading what I said...I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I'm actually curious about where the NPCs are.)

I know there's a Dragon Juicer in R:WB 10 that "recently acquired a minor rune sword." I'm pretty sure he worked for the Society of Sages. And he's just a mage cult thug. Kinda munchy too.... (ex-cyberknight w/ all powers but sword and shield + Dragon Juicer + rune weapon + access to millions of credits) I think that's a trend w/ many NPCs...

[Crazy Lou]

Yet another item that breaks the rules. It's a been a pretty consistent rule that Rune weapons are to have no moving parts (aside from the apocalypse horsemen's rune flail and now these pistols. and I suppose they don't have to move but you would think the hammer would at least fall.):(

Don't forget Rune Books.

I don't have a problem with Rune Items that move but I find Rune Firearms pretty damn absurd.

I concur wholeheartedly. I just hope that at no point (a very sad day it will be should it come) we don't get something like a rune plasma cannon, or a whole tank.

[Crazy Lou]

Does that shoot rune bullets and grenades too?

[kamikazzijoe]

...I feel they're over-used in a lot of Rifts NPCs, too.

Really? All I can think of is Thraxus and various Gods (Thraxus is a Godling, so he falls under this category). Have I missed a bunch of NPCs with rune weapons?

(re-reading what I said...I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I'm actually curious about where the NPCs are.)

I know there's a Dragon Juicer in R:WB 10 that "recently acquired a minor rune sword." I'm pretty sure he worked for the Society of Sages. And he's just a mage cult thug. Kinda munchy too.... (ex-cyberknight w/ all powers but sword and shield + Dragon Juicer + rune weapon + access to millions of credits) I think that's a trend w/ many NPCs...

Everytime it looks like an NPC is getting munchkinish just wait until you get to their bonuses and it falls apart. A lot of them don't even have the number attacks they should for their lvl and H2H combat skill. Most of the bonuses lie between 2-7. It wouldn't matter if they had THE black sword of Styphon with that kinda bonuses.
GM: He swings at you
Man at Arms: I parry with my eyes closed.

[Nekira Sudacne]

...I feel they're over-used in a lot of Rifts NPCs, too.

Really? All I can think of is Thraxus and various Gods (Thraxus is a Godling, so he falls under this category). Have I missed a bunch of NPCs with rune weapons?

(re-reading what I said...I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I'm actually curious about where the NPCs are.)

I know there's a Dragon Juicer in R:WB 10 that "recently acquired a minor rune sword." I'm pretty sure he worked for the Society of Sages. And he's just a mage cult thug. Kinda munchy too.... (ex-cyberknight w/ all powers but sword and shield + Dragon Juicer + rune weapon + access to millions of credits) I think that's a trend w/ many NPCs...

Everytime it looks like an NPC is getting munchkinish just wait until you get to their bonuses and it falls apart. A lot of them don't even have the number attacks they should for their lvl and H2H combat skill. Most of the bonuses lie between 2-7. It wouldn't matter if they had THE black sword of Styphon with that kinda bonuses.
GM: He swings at you
Man at Arms: I parry with my eyes closed.

What kind of characters do you normally run?


HINT. most men of arms won't have a PP over 12.

[JTwig]

...I feel they're over-used in a lot of Rifts NPCs, too.

Really? All I can think of is Thraxus and various Gods (Thraxus is a Godling, so he falls under this category). Have I missed a bunch of NPCs with rune weapons?

(re-reading what I said...I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I'm actually curious about where the NPCs are.)

I know there's a Dragon Juicer in R:WB 10 that "recently acquired a minor rune sword." I'm pretty sure he worked for the Society of Sages. And he's just a mage cult thug. Kinda munchy too.... (ex-cyberknight w/ all powers but sword and shield + Dragon Juicer + rune weapon + access to millions of credits) I think that's a trend w/ many NPCs...

There is also the Angel of Death (a cybernetic crazy) in the Mindworks book, and a few NPC in the Seige on Tolkeen had some if I remember correctly. If you throw in PFRPG NPCs you have the elf noble form Library of Betherad who personally owns over a 1/2 dozen.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Thraxus owns a half dozen greatest rune weapons that he carries on him


To say nothing of what he keeps in his vaults.

[kamikazzijoe]

...I feel they're over-used in a lot of Rifts NPCs, too.

Really? All I can think of is Thraxus and various Gods (Thraxus is a Godling, so he falls under this category). Have I missed a bunch of NPCs with rune weapons?

(re-reading what I said...I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I'm actually curious about where the NPCs are.)

I know there's a Dragon Juicer in R:WB 10 that "recently acquired a minor rune sword." I'm pretty sure he worked for the Society of Sages. And he's just a mage cult thug. Kinda munchy too.... (ex-cyberknight w/ all powers but sword and shield + Dragon Juicer + rune weapon + access to millions of credits) I think that's a trend w/ many NPCs...

Everytime it looks like an NPC is getting munchkinish just wait until you get to their bonuses and it falls apart. A lot of them don't even have the number attacks they should for their lvl and H2H combat skill. Most of the bonuses lie between 2-7. It wouldn't matter if they had THE black sword of Styphon with that kinda bonuses.
GM: He swings at you
Man at Arms: I parry with my eyes closed.

What kind of characters do you normally run?


HINT. most men of arms won't have a PP over 12.

Thats humans who'll average 10.5+phsical skills. Other races certainly run higher. But sticking with the 12...
Fleet feet is a sixth level spell and it doubles your PP so 12 becomes 24. H2H is generally a +2. WP +1-3. Thats about a plus 8 or so with a pretty cheap spell (30k for the ring). Add in dwarven weaponsmithing and that puts you up to +10 (only 2k). Add in physical skills and suddenly you don't even need the fleet feet to one-up the NPCs.

For HU super heroes can push that bonus to absurd heights compared to a lot of the NPCs.

Rifts tends to be more even but the PCs still come out 1-5 ahead for equal levels.

[Nekira Sudacne]

...I feel they're over-used in a lot of Rifts NPCs, too.

Really? All I can think of is Thraxus and various Gods (Thraxus is a Godling, so he falls under this category). Have I missed a bunch of NPCs with rune weapons?

(re-reading what I said...I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I'm actually curious about where the NPCs are.)

I know there's a Dragon Juicer in R:WB 10 that "recently acquired a minor rune sword." I'm pretty sure he worked for the Society of Sages. And he's just a mage cult thug. Kinda munchy too.... (ex-cyberknight w/ all powers but sword and shield + Dragon Juicer + rune weapon + access to millions of credits) I think that's a trend w/ many NPCs...

Everytime it looks like an NPC is getting munchkinish just wait until you get to their bonuses and it falls apart. A lot of them don't even have the number attacks they should for their lvl and H2H combat skill. Most of the bonuses lie between 2-7. It wouldn't matter if they had THE black sword of Styphon with that kinda bonuses.
GM: He swings at you
Man at Arms: I parry with my eyes closed.

What kind of characters do you normally run?


HINT. most men of arms won't have a PP over 12.

Thats humans who'll average 10.5+phsical skills. Other races certainly run higher. But sticking with the 12...
Fleet feet is a sixth level spell and it doubles your PP so 12 becomes 24. H2H is generally a +2. WP +1-3. Thats about a plus 8 or so with a pretty cheap spell (30k for the ring). Add in dwarven weaponsmithing and that puts you up to +10 (only 2k). Add in physical skills and suddenly you don't even need the fleet feet to one-up the NPCs.

For HU super heroes can push that bonus to absurd heights compared to a lot of the NPCs.

Rifts tends to be more even but the PCs still come out 1-5 ahead for equal levels.

1. the absolute maximum you can offically boost PP by with physical skills is +4. two of those comes from sking and iceskating, and is basically unavaible to a fairly large number of people.

secondly: Fleet Feet isn't a common spell in Rifts.

[DrBeau]

Thraxus owns a half dozen greatest rune weapons that he carries on him


To say nothing of what he keeps in his vaults.

I don't know if you're objecting to him having these or not, but I'm completely comfortable with him having this amount in his stash. He's a Godling and possibly the most powerful man in the Megaverse's greatest inter-dimentional market; I'd say he would be able to get his hands on whatever the hell he wants.

That being said, I don't think thraxus should have a crapload on his person. I'm of the camp that you can't have more than 2 rune weapons on your person and linked to you at one time (I'd only allow 2 if one of the weapons had a docile personality and didn't mind sharing the lime light). I think most GMs and players forget that 1) Rune weapons talk to you (usually) and 2) Rune weapons don't usually take kindly to one another.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Thraxus owns a half dozen greatest rune weapons that he carries on him


To say nothing of what he keeps in his vaults.

I don't know if you're objecting to him having these or not, but I'm completely comfortable with him having this amount in his stash. He's a Godling and possibly the most powerful man in the Megaverse's greatest inter-dimentional market; I'd say he would be able to get his hands on whatever the hell he wants.

That being said, I don't think thraxus should have a crapload on his person. I'm of the camp that you can't have more than 2 rune weapons on your person and linked to you at one time (I'd only allow 2 if one of the weapons had a docile personality and didn't mind sharing the lime light). I think most GMs and players forget that 1) Rune weapons talk to you (usually) and 2) Rune weapons don't usually take kindly to one another.

Naaa, I don't really object to 'em. He's pretty much been set up as the Megaverses greatest business genious and head of the largest corporation in exsistance.

I'm pretty comftable with him having pretty much whatever the **** he feels like having.

with that said: about the number:


At his wealth and influence, he could well have paied the Anvil Dwarven Guildmasters to make him those rune swords custom-made to work togeather.

[DrBeau]

At his wealth and influence, he could well have paied the Anvil Dwarven Guildmasters to make him those rune swords custom-made to work togeather.

Excellent point.

[kamikazzijoe]

...I feel they're over-used in a lot of Rifts NPCs, too.

Really? All I can think of is Thraxus and various Gods (Thraxus is a Godling, so he falls under this category). Have I missed a bunch of NPCs with rune weapons?

(re-reading what I said...I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I'm actually curious about where the NPCs are.)

I know there's a Dragon Juicer in R:WB 10 that "recently acquired a minor rune sword." I'm pretty sure he worked for the Society of Sages. And he's just a mage cult thug. Kinda munchy too.... (ex-cyberknight w/ all powers but sword and shield + Dragon Juicer + rune weapon + access to millions of credits) I think that's a trend w/ many NPCs...

Everytime it looks like an NPC is getting munchkinish just wait until you get to their bonuses and it falls apart. A lot of them don't even have the number attacks they should for their lvl and H2H combat skill. Most of the bonuses lie between 2-7. It wouldn't matter if they had THE black sword of Styphon with that kinda bonuses.
GM: He swings at you
Man at Arms: I parry with my eyes closed.

What kind of characters do you normally run?


HINT. most men of arms won't have a PP over 12.

Thats humans who'll average 10.5+phsical skills. Other races certainly run higher. But sticking with the 12...
Fleet feet is a sixth level spell and it doubles your PP so 12 becomes 24. H2H is generally a +2. WP +1-3. Thats about a plus 8 or so with a pretty cheap spell (30k for the ring). Add in dwarven weaponsmithing and that puts you up to +10 (only 2k). Add in physical skills and suddenly you don't even need the fleet feet to one-up the NPCs.

For HU super heroes can push that bonus to absurd heights compared to a lot of the NPCs.

Rifts tends to be more even but the PCs still come out 1-5 ahead for equal levels.

1. the absolute maximum you can offically boost PP by with physical skills is +4. two of those comes from sking and iceskating, and is basically unavaible to a fairly large number of people.

secondly: Fleet Feet isn't a common spell in Rifts.

Well don't forget that you roll your stats, then pick your OCC so a man at arms isgoing to tend to have higher physical stats.

I am assuming level 5 or 6 players. At that level a PF wizard can choose fleet feet as a spell. I was looking at the book last night and noticed the ring is about the same cost as the scroll. That doesn't make any sense.

Believe me I know its not common in Rifts. I've been playing a psi-slinger since New west came out and been working for years to get a ring of fleet feet. The GM let me trade a powerful magic artifact for a pair of dragon rods before he let me get a ring of fleet feet. You'd think a ring of teleport superior would be less common. Nope. Pay millions for one? Sorry not available. He let me commission annihilate fusion blocks with telepathic detonators but not a ring of fleet feet. (SoT is desperate times calling for desperate measures. This character started like Doc Holliday and over the course of the war has morphed to be more like a clone trooper.) Maybe when I hit level 10 he'll finally relent