Drewkitty's Group Mindblock Thread.

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drewkitty ~..~
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Re: Drewkitty's Group Mindblock Thread.

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

KC you are out of line...you should of piped up when everyone was talking about the other interpretation/house rule/etc...
Thank you for waiting for me to try to get MY QUESTION ANSWERED again for bringing up your personal viewpoint of how psionics work.
As I said.. The canon text in the GMB is so loose as to be open to multiple legitimate interpretations, (In other words it does not say exactly what it means.) that there is no canon rules for it, only interpretations. Now that you have spouted off even after you were notified about 'How to look at the question', you can be an adult and not say anything more.

RG...
Yes, to answer my question while ignoring the house rules you have been espousing for the proceeding ad nauseam of posts.
And under the idea that only the User of the GMB gets the the total psi power blockage because that is how the MB text in the RMB/PF2/HU2 reads, yes.

It has already been stipulated that Telepathic powers, and sensory powers are blocked because of the GMB. Because they are listed as being blocked in the GMB text......so why are you bringing them up??????

TDE
Anything that is not literally in the published books is a house rule. This was brought up in a published pb gamebook. Thank you for your viewpoint even though it is literally wrong.

So according to TD &TD's HR.... everyone is blind, deff and dumb while within a within the AoE of a GMB. .... now that is an interesting observation.

The problem with this topic is it keeps getting taken over by posters not wanting to talk about what I wanted it to talk about. So...no I don't want them to discuss their house rules anymore. I want to get my question, using the ideas I listed, to get talked about without getting interrupted every-time by some TD&TD who thinks their house rule is canon. Especially when it has been shown to them that their HRs can't be canon, because the MB & GMB text literally do not say exactly what they mean. While the MB power in the RMB/HU2/PF2 does give what it means by the wording it takes. No-one else seams to remember their HS english when reading those MB texts, so they went out on a tangent of their own devising. They also have been informed exactly when I would acknowledge a canon meaning to the text, and anything besides that is nothing but a house rule. They keep on trying to brow beet me into agreeing with their house rules.

So no it has not been ...."fun"

Warning: For Flaming/Harrassement - In this and previous posts in this thread you have compared other posters to children, challenged their literacy and accused them of brow beating you and hijackng the thread because they presented an interpretation of a power (not a house rule). You are not required to aknowledge their posts if they don't happen to answer your question, but you did so, and with considerable hostility. This hostility even continued when they tried to answer the question as you had posted it. You engaged in this behavoir after Moderator interjection in the topic.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
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Crimson Dynamo
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Re: Drewkitty's Group Mindblock Thread.

Unread post by Crimson Dynamo »

No, the text clearly states that people under Mind Block (and thus Group Mind Block) cannot be penetrated by powers like Telepathy and Empathic Transmission. Since you're house ruling away the part of Mind Block (and thus Group Mind Block) that refers to the limitations of the person(s) being directly affected by the power(s), they have no limitations. They can use Telepathy, Empathic Transmission, and all the other powers--directly referenced or inferred--just fine. They just can't use them against anyone else protected by Mind Block (and thus Group Mind Block).

Ergo someone affected by Group Mind Block, under your house rule, can activate a power like Empathic Transmission and affect someone outside the area of Group Mind Block with no problem whatsoever. But if they try to use it on anyone else within the area, it won't work, because the power "prevents penetration" of psionic abilities like Empathic Transmission.

As for what powers those include (and inversely, don't include), those have been mentioned multiple times in the thread.

But that said, Mind Block (and thus Group Mind Block), as written, relies on the second sentence of the rule to set up the limitations to the psychic(s) while under its effect. Everything else is about the protections granted those under its effect. "Will prevent penetration of" and "only blocks psionic attacks" are not accidental sentence fragments. The same goes for "the Group Mind Block works just like the individual Mind Block power" sentence of Group Mind Block, which also isn't an accident.
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Re: Drewkitty's Group Mindblock Thread.

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

Oh, gosh, brow beet made my day.

Come on, Drew, say some more dumb stuff while issuing commands no one respects.

Warning: This is Trolling/Harrassment


For everyone else, I was looking at the Psi-Dampener (Nightbane:Shadows of Light pp 89-90). It seems like the class' Dampening Field ability would react with a currently active Mind Block in perhaps a different way than might be seen with similar abilities, such as those of the Psi-Nullifier or Sea Inquisitor.

Here's a hypothetical: A 2nd level Psi-Dampener with a M.E. of 12 scrambles abilities which cost 22 ISP or less. They move within the area of effect of an active Group Mind Block. One of the psychics previously affected by the now scrambled Group Mind lock uses a power which costs more than 22 ISP, such as Mentally Possess Others. If that ability is used on the Psi-Dampener they could be forced to shutdown their dampening field, but for this example they are made to move far enough away that the dampening field doesn't interact with the previously active Group Mind Block. Does the Group Mind Block reactivate, and if so what happens with the Mentally Possess Others effect?
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Crimson Dynamo
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Re: Drewkitty's Group Mindblock Thread.

Unread post by Crimson Dynamo »

I don't have that particular book so I can't read the exact wording of the ability. But your use of "scrambles" suggests that it's more like a radio or cell jammer than an actual disruption of the power. Or it just ruins the field while they're in it, but the moment they leave everything goes back to normal.

If that is indeed how the power is worded (and just the name of it suggests it, too), then yeah, as soon as they leave the area the Group Mind Block's effects would kick back in, assuming the original psychic was still maintaining it.
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Re: Drewkitty's Group Mindblock Thread.

Unread post by Prysus »

Curbludgeon wrote:For everyone else, I was looking at the Psi-Dampener (Nightbane:Shadows of Light pp 89-90). It seems like the class' Dampening Field ability would react with a currently active Mind Block in perhaps a different way than might be seen with similar abilities, such as those of the Psi-Nullifier or Sea Inquisitor.

Here's a hypothetical: A 2nd level Psi-Dampener with a M.E. of 12 scrambles abilities which cost 22 ISP or less. They move within the area of effect of an active Group Mind Block. One of the psychics previously affected by the now scrambled Group Mind lock uses a power which costs more than 22 ISP, such as Mentally Possess Others. If that ability is used on the Psi-Dampener they could be forced to shutdown their dampening field, but for this example they are made to move far enough away that the dampening field doesn't interact with the previously active Group Mind Block. Does the Group Mind Block reactivate, and if so what happens with the Mentally Possess Others effect?

Greetings and Salutations. So, I'll start by noting what I can make of the Psi-Dampener ability.

Even many psychic squads like to have a Psi-Dampener as part of their team, even though it turns off the abilities of any other agent within the character's range of influence.
3. Dampening Field: Psi-Dampeners continuously radiate a sort of psychic scrambling signal that negates all psychic abilities ...
[snip]
Basically, any psychic ability ... [snip] ... is turned off ...

We're told that the power is negated, and specifically that the powers are "turned off" (we are told this at least twice). While this is noted as scrambling signal, since we're told that the powers are turned off I'd have to go with the powers are deactivated (not just the effects). I went through a few different ways it would work, but the only way that ended up making sense to me is the following ...

While it is a signal scrambler, it doesn't jam the signal in the sense of scrambling the area around it. Instead, it would work more like scrambling the parts of the brain the send and receive psychic signals. Instead of thinking it like a radio scrambler, I'm going to use the concept of a EMP (more the type you see in movies, which is more the Palladium style anyways, so let's not get into real world specifics). Psychic abilities (and other things affected by this power) are the machines being shut off by the EMP. Once the EMP is done (the Psi-Dampener leaves) you could try to turn things back on (or repair anything damaged), but they don't just turn back on automatically (though I suppose that may happen in some movies too, that's not the analogy I'm going for).

So, in the case of the Psi-Dampener and Mind Block, considering we ruled the Psi-Dampener took precedence over Mind Blook*, the Group Mind Block would need to be reactivated. The power wasn't interrupted, but negated/shut off. So the Mentally Possess Others psychic would be fine, at least until the Group Mind Block was reactivated**. Of course, one would have to ask how these psychics know when they can and cannot use their psionics. So unless they metagame, they'd have to use actual clues available to them, and that could be a lot harder.

* Note 1: This could be open for some debate. I'm inclined to believe that the Psi-Dampener would take precedence, as suggested in the quoted post. My logic is that the Psi-Dampener is always active, and that it stops all psionics within its range. So, a Group Mind Block would have to enter into the range of the Dampening Field (and be negated) before it could technically reach the Psi-Dampener. Though I think this could also be argued to be an immovable object vs. unstoppable force concept, and opinions may vary.

** Note 2: Whether or not Group Mind Block would cancel an ability such as that, I'm not entirely sure. In my personal opinion (and I'll admit I'm basing this on my belief, and not necessarily supported by text of the book), while the Group Mind Block does prevent psionics in general, psionics that function out of body work a little bit different. Mind Block would erect a wall/barrier sealing off the mind. However, in the case of something like Mentally Possess Others, Telemechanic Possession, Ghost Machine, Astral Projection, etc. (these are from memory, so I may have included something that shouldn't have been, or forgotten something that should be included) involve the psychic's mind leaving the body and going somewhere else. So a psychic using Astral Projection would NOT be kicked back to their body, but would be prevented from using any other psionics. And a psychic using Mentally Possess Others would be prevented from other psionics, but would continue to inhabit the body (though I may provide a victim another Saving Throw). Though, I guess, technically, Mentally Possess Others does not provide a Saving Throw but ... you know, I'm okay with house ruling that too.

Anyways, that's just my take on the situation. Hope some of that helps. Farewell and safe journeys.
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Re: Drewkitty's Group Mindblock Thread.

Unread post by Crimson Dynamo »

With that wording, I completely concur. It's fairly clear.
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Re: Drewkitty's Group Mindblock Thread.

Unread post by Jefffar »

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