PPE: Stop asking questions!

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Curbludgeon
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PPE: Stop asking questions!

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

(This is a branched off thread from the one started by Rogerd so as to not quibble it to pieces. I had typed "PPE part 2 Electric" into the title before remembering the term was coopted. Geez Louise...)

Some of the rules regarding external sources of PPE could use some clarification. I think Mark Hall's book in the fantasy line helped a heck of a lot with that, but there are situations that I don't think have been brought up in the FAQ which could stand to be made explicit. As an example, more than a few players allow the recharging of personal PPE at a ley line using the per round draw rate. This clearly isn't how it's supposed to work, given how many OCCs give per hour recovery rates for while meditating or on a ley line.

A less obvious example is whether or not casters can replenish personal PPE via PPE batteries like Talismans, Vajra, or Energy Spheres. If that's allowed then quick recovery via ley lines is back on the table, but other questions arise. May the amount of PPE available each round to a caster while on a ley line be held temporarily, or must it be used in that round? If it can be held then a LLW with a Talisman battery can recharge 50 PPE/45 seconds, with other casters in various settings not far behind. If the PPE drawable each round must be used in that round then other casters can possibly contribute instead. Can temorary sources of PPE such as that drawable from a ley line be immediately transferred to another, or can only personal PPE be donated? The former just makes the Talisman Shuffle take 3-6 casters each with their own Talisman. The latter answer still allows a group futzing with batteries to recover PPE more quickly on a ley line than usual, but the time frame involved goes from rounds to hours.

The conservative answer here is that the only way external sources of PPE can affect personal PPE is via the increased rate of recovery on a ley line. I don't know of another interpretation that isn't just determining how many steps and partners are involved in a magic dance. Even then there are still questions. Can a caster that has expended some of their personal PPE temporarily hold a corresponding increase in PPE such that the maximum stays constant? This leads to situations where a caster might need to premptively clear out their personal stash so as to most effectively make use of a time/date/sacrifice.
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Re: PPE: Stop asking questions!

Unread post by Prysus »

Curbludgeon wrote:(This is a branched off thread from the one started by Rogerd so as to not quibble it to pieces. I had typed "PPE part 2 Electric" into the title before remembering the term was coopted. Geez Louise...)

Some of the rules regarding external sources of PPE could use some clarification. I think Mark Hall's book in the fantasy line helped a heck of a lot with that, but there are situations that I don't think have been brought up in the FAQ which could stand to be made explicit. As an example, more than a few players allow the recharging of personal PPE at a ley line using the per round draw rate. This clearly isn't how it's supposed to work, given how many OCCs give per hour recovery rates for while meditating or on a ley line.

A less obvious example is whether or not casters can replenish personal PPE via PPE batteries like Talismans, Vajra, or Energy Spheres. If that's allowed then quick recovery via ley lines is back on the table, but other questions arise. May the amount of PPE available each round to a caster while on a ley line be held temporarily, or must it be used in that round? If it can be held then a LLW with a Talisman battery can recharge 50 PPE/45 seconds, with other casters in various settings not far behind. If the PPE drawable each round must be used in that round then other casters can possibly contribute instead. Can temorary sources of PPE such as that drawable from a ley line be immediately transferred to another, or can only personal PPE be donated? The former just makes the Talisman Shuffle take 3-6 casters each with their own Talisman. The latter answer still allows a group futzing with batteries to recover PPE more quickly on a ley line than usual, but the time frame involved goes from rounds to hours.

The conservative answer here is that the only way external sources of PPE can affect personal PPE is via the increased rate of recovery on a ley line. I don't know of another interpretation that isn't just determining how many steps and partners are involved in a magic dance. Even then there are still questions. Can a caster that has expended some of their personal PPE temporarily hold a corresponding increase in PPE such that the maximum stays constant? This leads to situations where a caster might need to premptively clear out their personal stash so as to most effectively make use of a time/date/sacrifice.

Greetings and Salutations. Well, as you brought up Mysteries of Magic, from what I can tell it takes the stance that you can, indeed, use the per melee draw rate to replenish your personal P.P.E. (which would make the personal recovery rate listed in the main book rather pointless). On page 22, the book explicitly states you can draw excess P.P.E. into yourself exceeding your standard base, and hold it for a time. The only reason we're given that you can't hold it longer is because it's too much, not because of any other reason. On page 23 (second column) we're told that a Wizard can use ley line energy to 1: "bolster his own energy reserve" (exceeding personal reserve as described on page 22), 2: "to cast low level magic," or 3: "supplement his own P.P.E." I can think of a couple of different ways of reading #3.

3a: The mage can cast higher level spells (those that exceed amount of P.P.E. you can draw upon) to cast a spell (e.g. 10 P.P.E. from ley line + 10 P.P.E. from personal reserve equals a 20 P.P.E. spell cast).
3b: The mage can add the amount to his personal reserves.

#3a makes sense, and I never considered anyone would even question this (but it's possible). #3b makes sense (for example, if I supplement my income with a second job, I still get to keep my new income), and supported with the information on page 22 about drawing the P.P.E. into himself. Now I personally feel that this isn't how the rest of the setting is written, but there's very little (if any at all) to believe that (as written) Mysteries of Magic, which is an official book, doesn't allow replenishing personal P.P.E.

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I addressed some of this (on my unofficial fan site) when working on Mystical Hand to Hand options, and tried to provide a reason why you can't replenish your personal P.P.E. from outside sources (to support the concepts in the main book). The quoted section below is the relevant section for ease of viewing.

Recovery of P.P.E.
Magic is a fabulous power that can calm a storm, create a fire ball, or open a door to another world. It can can be controlled and manipulated by the humanoid mind and force of will, and Potential Psychic Energy (P.P.E.) is the fuel of powers it. Every person has some degree of P.P.E., though magic users have learned to draw and hold larger reserves than most becoming living batteries. Practitioners of magic can call upon this energy at will and spend it to power their spells. Spells range from a single point to several thousand, with each spell further depleting the caster's resources.

Fortunately, the loss of P.P.E. is temporary. They will replenish themselves naturally at the rate of five points for every hour or rest or sleep. Meditation is a skill known and practiced by all men of magic. It is used to focus one's concentration, relax, and open oneself to mystic forces. A meditative state will restore expended P.P.E. at a rate of 10 per hour, but can only be maintained for one hour per level of experience within a 24 hour period. Meditation will not restore more P.P.E. than the character has expended.

Being on a Ley Line, or a half mile from a Ley Line Nexus, increases the regeneration of P.P.E to 10 P.P.E. per half an hour without meditation! If on a Nexus, or within 200 feet (6.1 m) of one, recovery is increased to 20 P.P.E. per half an hour!! However, P.P.E. from a Ley Line, Nexus, or other people cannot be used to replenish the character's personal reserves.

A Practitioner of Magic's personal P.P.E. is like a container of water. The water can sustain the character and the container can be refilled. However, Ley Line energy is like trying to drink salt water. While it's still water and either can be used to put out a fire (cast a spell), it needs to be filtered and/or purified before someone can safely drink it (replenish energy). So while a Ley Line can stimulate recovery, it cannot be siphoned directly. Drawing P.P.E. from others is closer to using polluted water. Again, the water may put out a fire, but it wouldn't be healthy to drink.

Hope some of that helps. Farewell and safe journeys.
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Re: PPE: Stop asking questions!

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Don't recall what I wrote, much less what got in, but I always tended to view mages as having built a reservoir within themselves to hold PPE... sort of like a camelbak they carry with them; one of the ones with a straw you can stick in your mouth. Normal people (those who have not been trained to manipulate PPE) tend to ebb and flow in PPE, and recover it the natural way. Those who have learned to manipulate PPE, of course, intentionally expend it, and learn ways to recover it.

However, it is a reservoir, and if they have access to an additional source of PPE, they can tap that to fill it. They can sit and rest and it will fill a bit on its own. If they run into a river or lake (i.e. a ley line or nexus), they can fill up their camelbak. If they come across a canteen someone has left around (i.e. a PPE battery), they can carry it as is, or pour it into their camelbak If they keep the canteen with them, they may be able to fill it, later, when there's more water available.

Now, to push analogy a bit, their camelbak can hold only so much water. If you put in too much... try to overfill it... you can, but doing so for too long means that it will strain the camelbak. Strain it too long, it will spring a leak, and go down to the level it can comfortably maintain. I may have a 100oz camelbak, but I can try to put 300oz in it... it will stretch, and bloat, and eventually leak, but I can do it (again, we're straining the analogy). If I release that excess amount fairly quickly, it will go back into normal shape.
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Re: PPE: Stop asking questions!

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

The basic texts in the core books are the same.
➣When talking about resting/sleeping it list two numbers. One for when resting, and another for when resting on a LL.
➣When it talks about recovery when meditating there is no mention of LL in that text. With a note that meditating by itself will only bring the mage' perm base PPE up to full.

Now being on the LL is where RUE differs from the HU2 & PF2 core books.
➣In HU and PF the mage will recover PPE at the mediation rate @ a 1/2 hour rate without meditation. This can be taken in couple ways. With he more liberal reading being that the mage recovers the mediations rate whatever they are doing. Opposite that it could be read the the mage has to still be resting somehow. However, ether way the mage isn't focusing on gathering the power from the LL. And is stated alongside the text talking about how much they can gather if they focus on gathering. Following that the on a LLN text with doubling the recovery rate while presuming you just read the no a LL text.

➢In RUE the text says nothing about an increased or easier recovery rate when on a LL or LLN. It """Looks Like""" the writer is presuming the LLW or whatever mage will be drawing in PPE from the LL to replenish their base PPE.

I'm not going to touch any CC specific texts.

Overcharging....the old rifts test said mages can hold x2 their base PPE. The text was not clear if this was just the Overcharge was x2 or if the total was x2. The MoM1 book stated it 50% of base, but the mage can channel 600/L/m for large spells. The MoM1 books does not say how much of the channeling could be done from how many multiple sources. Only that Multiple could be canceled from.

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My personal way of thinking on this is much following the KISS rule and if the mage is gathering PPE from a LL or LLN the mage 1st refills their personal reservoir with the PPE and then if wanted to overcharge they could. Why, it is easy record keeping.
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