Board index » Across the Megaverse® » Guild of Magic & Psionics

 


Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
 Post subject: mental guard vs Saves.
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:46 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 2541
Location: On Earth
Bit of a question.

Should someone who doesn't believe in either magic or psionics, never "seen" it before, (so they have never truly developed any type of "mental guard" against it) get a minus on saves until they see physically see and/or to their knowledge experience it and uh "See the light"? Basically, it's a question that keeps coming up in the game that I am in.

_________________
Ankh, udja, seneb.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:25 pm
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:39 pm
Posts: 274
On that same thought...And not to get off of your initial question, I think you will agree that the two questions run hand and hand. But is it possible to catch a normal somebody, who does have a clue and some idea off guard with spells and psionics?


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:27 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7140
how would knowing about it help? it isn't like you're actively planning out how to protect your mind from telepathy 24/7 just because you know it actually exists.

so i would say that generally speaking nobody should suffer a penalty due to lack of awareness (that doesn't mean they aren't more vulnerable in any way; someone who is aware that psionic mind control is a thing might react very differently to the realization that they can't explain why they would be thinking or feeling a certain way, which might lead to them suspecting that a known psychic is trying to control them or lead them to search for a previously unknown psychic, or might lead to them seeking out something that offers protection from mind control).


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:17 pm
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:39 pm
Posts: 274
Shark_Force wrote:
how would knowing about it help? it isn't like you're actively planning out how to protect your mind from telepathy 24/7 just because you know it actually exists.

so i would say that generally speaking nobody should suffer a penalty due to lack of awareness (that doesn't mean they aren't more vulnerable in any way; someone who is aware that psionic mind control is a thing might react very differently to the realization that they can't explain why they would be thinking or feeling a certain way, which might lead to them suspecting that a known psychic is trying to control them or lead them to search for a previously unknown psychic, or might lead to them seeking out something that offers protection from mind control).


Right. So, the save reduction makes sense or not?


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:46 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7140
ShadowHawk wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
how would knowing about it help? it isn't like you're actively planning out how to protect your mind from telepathy 24/7 just because you know it actually exists.

so i would say that generally speaking nobody should suffer a penalty due to lack of awareness (that doesn't mean they aren't more vulnerable in any way; someone who is aware that psionic mind control is a thing might react very differently to the realization that they can't explain why they would be thinking or feeling a certain way, which might lead to them suspecting that a known psychic is trying to control them or lead them to search for a previously unknown psychic, or might lead to them seeking out something that offers protection from mind control).


Right. So, the save reduction makes sense or not?


not.

it might help in other ways to be aware of the possibilities. but it isn't an important part of resisting the effect.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:52 am
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 7:48 pm
Posts: 2516
Location: Boise, ID (US)
pblackcrow wrote:
Bit of a question.

Should someone who doesn't believe in either magic or psionics, never "seen" it before, (so they have never truly developed any type of "mental guard" against it) get a minus on saves until they see physically see and/or to their knowledge experience it and uh "See the light"? Basically, it's a question that keeps coming up in the game that I am in.

Greetings and Salutations. Game Masters may rule how they like and house rules can affect how other rules work, but just from the basic system ...

No penalties. Knowledge is not required. Reasons I say this ...

1: No such rule exists in settings such as BtS, where the setting is based around most people not believing.

2: Nega-Psychics (I think they're the ones) specifically resist by NOT believing (along with psychic powers, but the point is they don't believe or "see the light").

3: If knowledge is required, this has further ripples such as anyone not aware a spell (or psychic power) is cast receiving similar penalties (after all, they don't KNOW the spell is being cast to actively resist), and other oddities that could arise as a result.

Knowledge of spell casting isn't required to save. Belief is a requirement of the spellcaster, not the other way around. Knowledge does help though, and that's why magic classes tend too have better saves (bonuses). That's all for now. Farewell and safe journeys.

_________________
Living the Fantasy (fan website)

Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)

Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:19 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Posts: 6176
Location: WI
pblackcrow wrote:
Bit of a question.

Should someone who doesn't believe in either magic or psionics, never "seen" it before, (so they have never truly developed any type of "mental guard" against it) get a minus on saves until they see physically see and/or to their knowledge experience it and uh "See the light"? Basically, it's a question that keeps coming up in the game that I am in.

By the RAW that would be a big fat No. Such a thing would be a house rule. Though by RAW it might also be situational on when you need to roll in some cases.

ShadowHawk wrote:
On that same thought...And not to get off of your initial question, I think you will agree that the two questions run hand and hand. But is it possible to catch a normal somebody, who does have a clue and some idea off guard with spells and psionics?

Can you catch someone off guard with Spells and Psionics? Yes. For Saving Throw purposes? No.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:06 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
Posts: 5401
Prysus wrote:
No penalties. Knowledge is not required. Reasons I say this ...

1: No such rule exists in settings such as BtS, where the setting is based around most people not believing.

The closest I can see is on pg 74 for "Ordinary People", you got a +1 to save vs magic as children which you lost by the time you became a teenager/adult. On the plus side, you double your bonus vs possession and resist psychic stuff better (+2 means your 15 or higher is basically 13 or higher, nearly as good as a minor/major)

Also, like what you bring up with the nega-psychic, the OPs also automatically applied a -8% penalty (not sure if cumulative) within 10ft of clairvoyants (85-86) / mediums (87-88) / object readers (88-90)


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:27 pm
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 15419
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
pblackcrow wrote:
Bit of a question.

Should someone who doesn't believe in either magic or psionics, never "seen" it before, (so they have never truly developed any type of "mental guard" against it) get a minus on saves until they see physically see and/or to their knowledge experience it and uh "See the light"? Basically, it's a question that keeps coming up in the game that I am in.


No. They work based on the beleif of the caster, not the beleif of the target. There is no penalty for being faced with something new.

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


          Top  
 
 
Post new topic Reply to topic



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum


cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group