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 Post subject: Spell fire globe
Unread postPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 11:56 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 1:56 am
Posts: 7
Spell fire globe in campaign doing one of players wanted to make several of them and throw all at once. Just wondering if able to do so spell doesn’t say but says wielded just has to throw and will it to do damage. If someone could help and provide some insight would be great. Also if he made them at a leyline and used no where near a leyline would the globe still do double since the globe was created on a leyline?


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 Post subject: Re: Spell fire globe
Unread postPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 10:24 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7140
how are they throwing so many at once? they aren't all that small. i would suspect most methods of throwing them (and i would say that the person must throw it, it cannot be done by a machine, because as you mentioned they have to be activated to explode on the next thing they hit) more than one at a time are going to lose a significant amount of accuracy; you might be able to, say, firebomb a building with multiples at a time if you're standing on the roof, but i wouldn't expect you're going to throw them at an enemy even 50 feet away with any accuracy if you're cramming 3-4 into your hands. even using them 2 at a time, unless you're *very* close i'd say you're going to lose a lot of accuracy because throwing properly uses your whole body to put power into it, and you can't do that on both sides of your body at the same time.

also, since RUE came out ley lines increase range and duration, and do nothing whatsoever for damage. i would rule that the spell is charged up by the additional energy and still gets the added range and duration, personally, but there is no clear answer in the rulebooks on that, you'll have to decide for yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Spell fire globe
Unread postPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:36 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 1:56 am
Posts: 7
He wanted to put them in a bag and throw them all at once to go further his character is a royal frilled dragon so he was saying with his strength he could throw a big bag of them he wanted to use to pretty much do a napalm type deal where he either threw whole bag or flew up and dumped bag over enemies


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 Post subject: Re: Spell fire globe
Unread postPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 12:25 am
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7140
DieselsRage wrote:
He wanted to put them in a bag and throw them all at once to go further his character is a royal frilled dragon so he was saying with his strength he could throw a big bag of them he wanted to use to pretty much do a napalm type deal where he either threw whole bag or flew up and dumped bag over enemies


ok, so he activates them to do damage to the next thing they touch, which is either the bag or the other fire globes. the bag either can't take it and breaks apart, spreading the fire globes across an area and doing whatever regular damage an object of their weight would do (so a few points of SDC) and not set anything on fire (they've already done their magical light-things-on-fire ability). or if the bag can take it, they will all hit the same target for some SDC, and the target will be the proud owner of a brand new fireproof bag (lightly used).

(edit: note that if he is familiar with the spell, i would say he would know in advance that this would happen... i'm just pointing out that throwing a bag full of fire globes wouldn't work).


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 Post subject: Re: Spell fire globe
Unread postPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 1:58 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 1:56 am
Posts: 7
Shark_Force wrote:
DieselsRage wrote:
He wanted to put them in a bag and throw them all at once to go further his character is a royal frilled dragon so he was saying with his strength he could throw a big bag of them he wanted to use to pretty much do a napalm type deal where he either threw whole bag or flew up and dumped bag over enemies


ok, so he activates them to do damage to the next thing they touch, which is either the bag or the other fire globes. the bag either can't take it and breaks apart, spreading the fire globes across an area and doing whatever regular damage an object of their weight would do (so a few points of SDC) and not set anything on fire (they've already done their magical light-things-on-fire ability). or if the bag can take it, they will all hit the same target for some SDC, and the target will be the proud owner of a brand new fireproof bag (lightly used).

(edit: note that if he is familiar with the spell, i would say he would know in advance that this would happen... i'm just pointing out that throwing a bag full of fire globes wouldn't work).



These globes do mdc not sdc and I understand what your saying but other thing he said trying was flying over and dumping bag which I don’t see why that wouldn’t work.


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 Post subject: Re: Spell fire globe
Unread postPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 3:16 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7140
DieselsRage wrote:
These globes do mdc not sdc and I understand what your saying but other thing he said trying was flying over and dumping bag which I don’t see why that wouldn’t work.


the globes do MDC by setting things on fire. specifically, the first thing they touch. so yes, they do MDC, but not because of the impact, which is all they have left once discharged, and they will discharge while in the sack, bouncing up against all the other fire globes.

with dumping the globes, again, the globes are going to be bouncing against each other and the bag once activated. first thing they hit, they set on fire, which will be either the bag or another globe, in all likelihood (i mean, there might be some small chance that one or two would make it out intact, but it would be small enough i wouldn't bother checking). afterwards, it's just whatever damage an SDC flaming ball of the same mass would deal. it might be decent for setting some very large thing on fire below you (bombing is pretty inaccurate if you don't have some sort of sights and preferably guidance), but seeing as how he could do that with any number of other things, including a single dropped fire globe, that wouldn't be worth much.

nothing suggests that they can be activated remotely, so they must be activated while being essentially in your hands (more or less... i'd allow use through a glove or similar, but not through some weird contraption designed to hold 20 fire globes separate or something like that).

for that matter, nothing indicates that they can even be activated in bundles. you might only be able to activate one at a time.


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 Post subject: Re: Spell fire globe
Unread postPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 3:41 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 1:56 am
Posts: 7
Shark_Force wrote:
DieselsRage wrote:
These globes do mdc not sdc and I understand what your saying but other thing he said trying was flying over and dumping bag which I don’t see why that wouldn’t work.


the globes do MDC by setting things on fire. specifically, the first thing they touch. so yes, they do MDC, but not because of the impact, which is all they have left once discharged, and they will discharge while in the sack, bouncing up against all the other fire globes.

with dumping the globes, again, the globes are going to be bouncing against each other and the bag once activated. first thing they hit, they set on fire, which will be either the bag or another globe, in all likelihood (i mean, there might be some small chance that one or two would make it out intact, but it would be small enough i wouldn't bother checking). afterwards, it's just whatever damage an SDC flaming ball of the same mass would deal. it might be decent for setting some very large thing on fire below you (bombing is pretty inaccurate if you don't have some sort of sights and preferably guidance), but seeing as how he could do that with any number of other things, including a single dropped fire globe, that wouldn't be worth much.

nothing suggests that they can be activated remotely, so they must be activated while being essentially in your hands (more or less... i'd allow use through a glove or similar, but not through some weird contraption designed to hold 20 fire globes separate or something like that).

for that matter, nothing indicates that they can even be activated in bundles. you might only be able to activate one at a time.



That would be what I was asking because spell doesn’t say and the spells says to activate must throw while wishing for it to ignite or damage whatever it hits so they wouldn’t technically be activated until they were falling and they do 5d6 mdc initially and then 5d6 mdc per melee for 1d4 minutes so at no point in time do they do sdc damage it’s always mdc and says in spell can be put in bag without fear of starting fire. So as from what spell says dumping a bag of them and firebombing a target is possible but I need someone who knows to tell me whether one or more can be activated at once since all it requires is a thot wishing it to ignite or damage what it hits I don’t see why you couldn’t activate all at once like that but I’ve never had someone ask that before


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 Post subject: Re: Spell fire globe
Unread postPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 11:16 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7140
DieselsRage wrote:
That would be what I was asking because spell doesn’t say and the spells says to activate must throw while wishing for it to ignite or damage whatever it hits so they wouldn’t technically be activated until they were falling and they do 5d6 mdc initially and then 5d6 mdc per melee for 1d4 minutes so at no point in time do they do sdc damage it’s always mdc and says in spell can be put in bag without fear of starting fire. So as from what spell says dumping a bag of them and firebombing a target is possible but I need someone who knows to tell me whether one or more can be activated at once since all it requires is a thot wishing it to ignite or damage what it hits I don’t see why you couldn’t activate all at once like that but I’ve never had someone ask that before


they do mega-damage to the first target hit. presuming they even exist afterwards, nothing indicates that they continue to deal mega-damage to anything else, nor that the fire they ignite causes mega-damage to anything else (it is still fire, so i consider it reasonable to presume the flames on the target will ignite other flammable objects, but the magic that makes them deal mega-damage has already been applied to the first thing they hit, so it won't be magical mega-damage fire that can't be extinguished).

as for whether you want to allow a whole bunch to be activated at once, you're the GM so it's your decision. i would be inclined to say no (or, as i mentioned above, to say yes, but you need to be holding them, you can't throw them effectively with both hands at once because throwing a ball properly is a full-body motion, and if you throw them all bunched together the first thing they hit will be either each other or the container they were loaded into).

magic is already an extremely versatile and powerful tool. this spell in particular is already a very effective one; 5d6 damage from a spell is pretty good, and this spell can be cast weeks in advance at a ley line and saved for the right moment, plus if you can do a hit-and-run to let the damage over time effect work, the damage is *ridiculously* good (from 25d6 to 85d6 damage). seriously, the damage from one fire globe can easily make a glitter boy's boom gun look bad. don't make it more powerful than it already is, the spell is already strong enough.

as a magic-using dragon, he already has a lot of advantages over technology users (including the fact that he can use technology *and* magic while most of them can only use magic). if you let him launch volleys of fire globes, that's just taking away one of the few areas that technology actually has an advantage in, and technology has a lot of disadvantages to get that advantage (for example limited ammunition and costing a lot of money to use).


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 Post subject: Re: Spell fire globe
Unread postPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 6:57 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 1:56 am
Posts: 7
Shark_Force wrote:
DieselsRage wrote:
That would be what I was asking because spell doesn’t say and the spells says to activate must throw while wishing for it to ignite or damage whatever it hits so they wouldn’t technically be activated until they were falling and they do 5d6 mdc initially and then 5d6 mdc per melee for 1d4 minutes so at no point in time do they do sdc damage it’s always mdc and says in spell can be put in bag without fear of starting fire. So as from what spell says dumping a bag of them and firebombing a target is possible but I need someone who knows to tell me whether one or more can be activated at once since all it requires is a thot wishing it to ignite or damage what it hits I don’t see why you couldn’t activate all at once like that but I’ve never had someone ask that before


they do mega-damage to the first target hit. presuming they even exist afterwards, nothing indicates that they continue to deal mega-damage to anything else, nor that the fire they ignite causes mega-damage to anything else (it is still fire, so i consider it reasonable to presume the flames on the target will ignite other flammable objects, but the magic that makes them deal mega-damage has already been applied to the first thing they hit, so it won't be magical mega-damage fire that can't be extinguished).

as for whether you want to allow a whole bunch to be activated at once, you're the GM so it's your decision. i would be inclined to say no (or, as i mentioned above, to say yes, but you need to be holding them, you can't throw them effectively with both hands at once because throwing a ball properly is a full-body motion, and if you throw them all bunched together the first thing they hit will be either each other or the container they were loaded into).

magic is already an extremely versatile and powerful tool. this spell in particular is already a very effective one; 5d6 damage from a spell is pretty good, and this spell can be cast weeks in advance at a ley line and saved for the right moment, plus if you can do a hit-and-run to let the damage over time effect work, the damage is *ridiculously* good (from 25d6 to 85d6 damage). seriously, the damage from one fire globe can easily make a glitter boy's boom gun look bad. don't make it more powerful than it already is, the spell is already strong enough.

as a magic-using dragon, he already has a lot of advantages over technology users (including the fact that he can use technology *and* magic while most of them can only use magic). if you let him launch volleys of fire globes, that's just taking away one of the few areas that technology actually has an advantage in, and technology has a lot of disadvantages to get that advantage (for example limited ammunition and costing a lot of money to use).


Alright I understand all that and yes it states in spell does additional 5d6 mdc per melee for 1d4 minutes at all times it does mdc never sdc


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 Post subject: Re: Spell fire globe
Unread postPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:07 pm
  

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Supreme Being

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Additionally, it's been argued that a second Fire Globe does not inflict 5D6 damage since you're adding fire to an existing fire. It would only extend the duration of the flame. The folks with that opinion would say that even 10 Fire Globes would only inflict 5D6 but would last for which globe had the longest duration.

I don't agree with that interpretation, but figured I'd share it so that you can make your own decision.

_________________
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Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Spell fire globe
Unread postPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:54 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 1:56 am
Posts: 7
Mack wrote:
Additionally, it's been argued that a second Fire Globe does not inflict 5D6 damage since you're adding fire to an existing fire. It would only extend the duration of the flame. The folks with that opinion would say that even 10 Fire Globes would only inflict 5D6 but would last for which globe had the longest duration.

I don't agree with that interpretation, but figured I'd share it so that you can make your own decision.




So what do you interpret it as? How would you call it?


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 Post subject: Re: Spell fire globe
Unread postPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:18 am
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7140
DieselsRage wrote:
Alright I understand all that and yes it states in spell does additional 5d6 mdc per melee for 1d4 minutes at all times it does mdc never sdc


it lists mega-damage for burning things. never once does it specify that it does mega-damage when being used as a bludgeoning tool.


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 Post subject: Re: Spell fire globe
Unread postPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 9:56 pm
  

User avatar
Supreme Being

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:01 am
Posts: 5676
Location: Communing with the Keepers of the Desert
Comment: This space for rent.
DieselsRage wrote:
Mack wrote:
Additionally, it's been argued that a second Fire Globe does not inflict 5D6 damage since you're adding fire to an existing fire. It would only extend the duration of the flame. The folks with that opinion would say that even 10 Fire Globes would only inflict 5D6 but would last for which globe had the longest duration.

I don't agree with that interpretation, but figured I'd share it so that you can make your own decision.


So what do you interpret it as? How would you call it?


My interpretation is simple: Each globe is independent of the others. So if I throw three globes at a target in one melee, when each hits it inflicts 5D6 MD, and at the start of the next round the target takes 15D6 additional as it continues to burn. If the duration for each globe was 1 minute, 2 minutes, and 3 minutes (respectively) then for the first minute the target would take 15D6/round, the second minute would inflict 10D6/round, and the final minute 5D6/round. Overall, those three minutes add up to 120D6 of damage (or approximately 420 MD with average roles).

As you can tell, the strength in a Fire Globe is its duration. With a hit-and-run attack, you can easily take down a large robot vehicle or a tank.

_________________
Love your neighbor.
It's Rifts. It doesn't have to make sense.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.


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