Board index » Across the Megaverse® » Guild of Magic & Psionics

 


Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:26 pm
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:09 am
Posts: 292
Do T-Men, of any flavor, have supernatural strength?

Or does this fall under the same FAQ as Wormwood humans?

http://palladiumbooks.com/background-and-settings

"10 In Wormwood since everyone is a Mega-damage being does that mean physical attacks cause no damage, ie. a punch or normal sword. This seems to imply that people of wormwood can beat each other up till the cows come home and only suffer fatigue from failing away at each other
Answer: Wormwoodians are mega-damage beings in reference to SDC objects from other dimensions. Swords and fists will inflict standard damage within their own dimension."


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:37 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 9481
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
As of Secrets of the Atlantians
T-Men of all stripes are now considered minor supernatural creatures and have supernatural strength and endurance.
They also get all the other effects of this...
They take damage from weapons that harm supernatural beings
They can not cross circles of protection
They can not enter a Sanctum
They can not be in the line of sight of a superior circle of protection
They can be summoned and bound by a Summon Lesser Being spell
They are subject to Desiccate the Supernatural
Those with evil alignments radiate Supernatural Evil while those with good alignments radiate Supernatural Good.
Et multiple cetera.

(My favorite is that this means that Undead Hunters are now barred from most places that are warded vs undead :lol: )

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:04 pm
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:09 am
Posts: 292
Page cite? Cause I've been through it twice and I'm obviously missing it.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:08 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 9481
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
thorr-kan wrote:
Page cite? Cause I've been through it twice and I'm obviously missing it.

It is in the obvious place for such an important detail...
...the MDC of the Undead Slayer and Monster Man.
Why you didn't check the MDC of the Undead slayer for their PS stat I have no idea :lol:
I found it by accident myself.

Of course it is possible that only those two T-men become supernatural beings while everyone else stays MDC mortals... but the likely hood of that seems rather... remote.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:42 am
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:09 am
Posts: 292
I'm not saying you're wrong...cause there it is!

WTH?

Thanks.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:12 am
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7137
thorr-kan wrote:
I'm not saying you're wrong...cause there it is!

WTH?

Thanks.


welcome to palladium. while we're at it, the default rules for recovering ISP are found in the very back of RUE in the psionic combat section, nowhere near the section on psionic OCCs or the other rules on psionics.

this kind of thing is unfortunately not very uncommon. on the plus side, there's lots of awesome stuff too!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:37 pm
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:09 am
Posts: 292
Shark_Force wrote:
welcome to palladium. while we're at it, the default rules for recovering ISP are found in the very back of RUE in the psionic combat section, nowhere near the section on psionic OCCs or the other rules on psionics.

this kind of thing is unfortunately not very uncommon. on the plus side, there's lots of awesome stuff too!

Yup. Been reading it since the first printing of the first edition Robotech RPG.

Thanks, all.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:05 pm
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:09 am
Posts: 292
eliakon wrote:
thorr-kan wrote:
Page cite? Cause I've been through it twice and I'm obviously missing it.

It is in the obvious place for such an important detail...
...the MDC of the Undead Slayer and Monster Man.
Why you didn't check the MDC of the Undead slayer for their PS stat I have no idea :lol:
I found it by accident myself.

Of course it is possible that only those two T-men become supernatural beings while everyone else stays MDC mortals... but the likely hood of that seems rather... remote.

Huh.

True Atlantean R.C.C. says augmented PS. This is echoed in:
Atlantean Nomad (but the Nomad Paladin Specialized Area of Study gives that Nomad more than 6 tattoos and Supernatural Strength as well)
Sunaj Shadow Mage
Sunaj Shadow Assassin
Crystal Mage
Stone Master

That Supernatural PS verbiage is included in the MDC sections of:
Tattooed Defender
Monster Hunter
Undead Slayer
Tattooed Voyager
Sunaj Assassin

I think only Atlantean Tattooed Men have Supernatural PS. Spluggie Tattooed Men don't. Makes sense I suppose; Atlanteans originated tattoo magic, so they have Kung-Fu Secret Knowledge (tm). The Splugorth just have to make due with the Wormwood clause I mentioned earlier.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:41 am
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 9481
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
thorr-kan wrote:
eliakon wrote:
thorr-kan wrote:
Page cite? Cause I've been through it twice and I'm obviously missing it.

It is in the obvious place for such an important detail...
...the MDC of the Undead Slayer and Monster Man.
Why you didn't check the MDC of the Undead slayer for their PS stat I have no idea :lol:
I found it by accident myself.

Of course it is possible that only those two T-men become supernatural beings while everyone else stays MDC mortals... but the likely hood of that seems rather... remote.

Huh.

True Atlantean R.C.C. says augmented PS. This is echoed in:
Atlantean Nomad (but the Nomad Paladin Specialized Area of Study gives that Nomad more than 6 tattoos and Supernatural Strength as well)
Sunaj Shadow Mage
Sunaj Shadow Assassin
Crystal Mage
Stone Master

That Supernatural PS verbiage is included in the MDC sections of:
Tattooed Defender
Monster Hunter
Undead Slayer
Tattooed Voyager
Sunaj Assassin

I think only Atlantean Tattooed Men have Supernatural PS. Spluggie Tattooed Men don't. Makes sense I suppose; Atlanteans originated tattoo magic, so they have Kung-Fu Secret Knowledge (tm). The Splugorth just have to make due with the Wormwood clause I mentioned earlier.

Of course Splugorth Tattoo men don't have it.
This was just added in with this new book!
Needless to say a book published 18 years ago does not have a rule that was only just created two years ago.

And the classes that you listed as not having... are not T-men.
They won't have it because they dont have the 7+ tattoos that a T-man has.

And the Spulgorth have full Atlantean knowledge. There is no way that they have inferior T-men but have been able to invent tons of new tattoos, entire new categories oh, and have an entire Atlantean clan working with them!

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:14 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 3718
Location: Nashville.....ish....
Page 123 of my hardback Secrets of Atlantis talks about a TA Cyber Knight with 8 tats, MDC, SNPS, and SNPE. This is basically the same as the description under the TA Nomad Paladin. Based on that I would go with any TA with 7 or more tats getting SNPS and all that jazz.

I don't recall anything specifically talking about non TA "tattoo men" having the SN boost, but there is a mention about "TA warrior slaves" of the Spulgys. They would get the SN boost, juts not sold on a regular human, or even ogre getting the boost. I would say it is a GM call if a standard human or ogre gets the boost, but I would give it to them. Just my two cents.

I've only read through the book once or twice, so it is likely I'm missing something. I had to look up the CK thing the other day and it took me forever due to where it was buried.

_________________
RockJock, holder of the mighty Rune Rock Hammer!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:49 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 9481
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
RockJock wrote:
Page 123 of my hardback Secrets of Atlantis talks about a TA Cyber Knight with 8 tats, MDC, SNPS, and SNPE. This is basically the same as the description under the TA Nomad Paladin. Based on that I would go with any TA with 7 or more tats getting SNPS and all that jazz.

I don't recall anything specifically talking about non TA "tattoo men" having the SN boost, but there is a mention about "TA warrior slaves" of the Spulgys. They would get the SN boost, juts not sold on a regular human, or even ogre getting the boost. I would say it is a GM call if a standard human or ogre gets the boost, but I would give it to them. Just my two cents.

I've only read through the book once or twice, so it is likely I'm missing something. I had to look up the CK thing the other day and it took me forever due to where it was buried.

Since this book is all about Atlantians (and only them we get a tiny bit on the new allies of the Sunaj but that's it.) I don't see why it would go into details about Splugorth ogres or the like...

And the SN boost is introduced in this book. The rule did not exist before now so of course it is not mentioned in any other books!


Remember previous to this book TA T-men were written up the same as every other T-man and got the same MDC boost as every other T-man... which leads me to
The question becomes then "why should we assume that tattoo magic works any differently for Atlantians than other races" especially given that the tattoo magic section is pretty clear in saying that tattoos work the same for everyone! (elves excluded)
Why should we assume that we should go back and assume that this new rule changes how TA T-men write ups are done... but that it doesn't apply to all the other identically written T-man write ups?

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:38 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 3718
Location: Nashville.....ish....
I agree, it is a coin flip how you want to do it. As a GM if you say Ogres and humans do not get the boost then great, if you say they get it, well, great.

_________________
RockJock, holder of the mighty Rune Rock Hammer!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:08 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 7137
eliakon wrote:
RockJock wrote:
Page 123 of my hardback Secrets of Atlantis talks about a TA Cyber Knight with 8 tats, MDC, SNPS, and SNPE. This is basically the same as the description under the TA Nomad Paladin. Based on that I would go with any TA with 7 or more tats getting SNPS and all that jazz.

I don't recall anything specifically talking about non TA "tattoo men" having the SN boost, but there is a mention about "TA warrior slaves" of the Spulgys. They would get the SN boost, juts not sold on a regular human, or even ogre getting the boost. I would say it is a GM call if a standard human or ogre gets the boost, but I would give it to them. Just my two cents.

I've only read through the book once or twice, so it is likely I'm missing something. I had to look up the CK thing the other day and it took me forever due to where it was buried.

Since this book is all about Atlantians (and only them we get a tiny bit on the new allies of the Sunaj but that's it.) I don't see why it would go into details about Splugorth ogres or the like...

And the SN boost is introduced in this book. The rule did not exist before now so of course it is not mentioned in any other books!


Remember previous to this book TA T-men were written up the same as every other T-man and got the same MDC boost as every other T-man... which leads me to
The question becomes then "why should we assume that tattoo magic works any differently for Atlantians than other races" especially given that the tattoo magic section is pretty clear in saying that tattoos work the same for everyone! (elves excluded)
Why should we assume that we should go back and assume that this new rule changes how TA T-men write ups are done... but that it doesn't apply to all the other identically written T-man write ups?


actually, every true atlantean undead slayer NPC printed has had supernatural PS as i understand it. before the explicit ruling on undead slayers getting supernatural PS, there was a lot of speculation that they were supposed to get supernatural PS on that basis.

so it has at least been applied for decades, in spite of true atlanteans only getting that rule recently, in spite of (as you noted) identically written write ups. that really should not have been happening, of course; editing should be better than that. but it has been happening.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:25 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 3718
Location: Nashville.....ish....
It is the normal pick your path in PB land.

_________________
RockJock, holder of the mighty Rune Rock Hammer!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:30 am
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 9481
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Shark_Force wrote:
eliakon wrote:
RockJock wrote:
Page 123 of my hardback Secrets of Atlantis talks about a TA Cyber Knight with 8 tats, MDC, SNPS, and SNPE. This is basically the same as the description under the TA Nomad Paladin. Based on that I would go with any TA with 7 or more tats getting SNPS and all that jazz.

I don't recall anything specifically talking about non TA "tattoo men" having the SN boost, but there is a mention about "TA warrior slaves" of the Spulgys. They would get the SN boost, juts not sold on a regular human, or even ogre getting the boost. I would say it is a GM call if a standard human or ogre gets the boost, but I would give it to them. Just my two cents.

I've only read through the book once or twice, so it is likely I'm missing something. I had to look up the CK thing the other day and it took me forever due to where it was buried.

Since this book is all about Atlantians (and only them we get a tiny bit on the new allies of the Sunaj but that's it.) I don't see why it would go into details about Splugorth ogres or the like...

And the SN boost is introduced in this book. The rule did not exist before now so of course it is not mentioned in any other books!


Remember previous to this book TA T-men were written up the same as every other T-man and got the same MDC boost as every other T-man... which leads me to
The question becomes then "why should we assume that tattoo magic works any differently for Atlantians than other races" especially given that the tattoo magic section is pretty clear in saying that tattoos work the same for everyone! (elves excluded)
Why should we assume that we should go back and assume that this new rule changes how TA T-men write ups are done... but that it doesn't apply to all the other identically written T-man write ups?


actually, every true atlantean undead slayer NPC printed has had supernatural PS as i understand it. before the explicit ruling on undead slayers getting supernatural PS, there was a lot of speculation that they were supposed to get supernatural PS on that basis.

so it has at least been applied for decades, in spite of true atlanteans only getting that rule recently, in spite of (as you noted) identically written write ups. that really should not have been happening, of course; editing should be better than that. but it has been happening.

Can you provide any examples of these NPCs?
So that we can figure out when this started?
I just checked and I can confirm that CB2 Pantheons of the Megaverse does not have SNPS for the two T-Men in it (I chose that book because it has 1 TA and 1 Human T-man)

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:07 am
  

Explorer

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:54 am
Posts: 156
WB2, England has a champion of Camelot who is a TA Undead Slayer where it is called out as supernatural strength.
As noted above CB2, Pantheons has a TA Undead Slayer and a normal human T-man, and neither has supernatural strength called out.
So yeah PB has been just as inconsistent going all the way back.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:49 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 9481
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
42dragon wrote:
WB2, England has a champion of Camelot who is a TA Undead Slayer where it is called out as supernatural strength.
As noted above CB2, Pantheons has a TA Undead Slayer and a normal human T-man, and neither has supernatural strength called out.
So yeah PB has been just as inconsistent going all the way back.

Actually...
That is pretty good evidence for it applying to everyone all the time.
Seriously.
Back then there was basically no difference between Atlantians and Humans. They were not the special snowflakes that they have become now and were just a minor variation on humans.
Thus the rules for them were basically the same. Even the T-Man OCCs were written identically.
Thus if the T-Man in the next book by Kevin was a supernatural being with SNPS and SNPE... that would be the strongest possible circumstantial evidence that the intent all along was that T-Men were supposed to be... exactly that, supernatural beings with SNPS and SNPE.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:36 am
  

User avatar
Supreme Being

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:01 am
Posts: 5674
Location: Communing with the Keepers of the Desert
Comment: This space for rent.
Mercs, p80. Urlik Blackhand, Ogre Tattooed Man, level 8.
Does not have supernatural PS or PE.
Has 21 magic tattoos.
Explicitly states his Chain with a Broken Link tattoo grants him supernatural PS.

_________________
Love your neighbor.
It's Rifts. It doesn't have to make sense.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:19 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 9481
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Mack wrote:
Mercs, p80. Urlik Blackhand, Ogre Tattooed Man, level 8.
Does not have supernatural PS or PE.
Has 21 magic tattoos.
Explicitly states his Chain with a Broken Link tattoo grants him supernatural PS.

Which isn't terribly helpful because England is Kevin and Mercenaries is C.J.
Which means that we don't know if it is a "this is the way it is supposed to be" or a "this is two different writers and they are not on the same page"

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:34 pm
  

User avatar
Supreme Being

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:01 am
Posts: 5674
Location: Communing with the Keepers of the Desert
Comment: This space for rent.
Just noticed something related to this discussion.

Leafing through Atlantis, both Sunaj Assassins & Undead Slayers start with 2D4x10 MDC, whereas the T-Man/T-Monster gets +10 MDC, & the Maxi-Man gets +1D4x10 MD. Or to say the same thing in a different way, the two True Atlantean classes get a much stronger bonus than the human/ogre/elf classes. (Especially noteworthy is the Sunaj getting the high bonus despite having the least tattoos.)

One could speculate that the transformation is more potent for a True Atlantean.

I'll have to look into this a bit more later.

_________________
Love your neighbor.
It's Rifts. It doesn't have to make sense.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:04 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Posts: 6175
Location: WI
Mack wrote:
Just noticed something related to this discussion.

Leafing through Atlantis, both Sunaj Assassins & Undead Slayers start with 2D4x10 MDC, whereas the T-Man/T-Monster gets +10 MDC, & the Maxi-Man gets +1D4x10 MD. Or to say the same thing in a different way, the two True Atlantean classes get a much stronger bonus than the human/ogre/elf classes. (Especially noteworthy is the Sunaj getting the high bonus despite having the least tattoos.)

One could speculate that the transformation is more potent for a True Atlantean.

I'll have to look into this a bit more later.

Something else to consider are existing tattooos (see WB2 or BoM):
-Bleeding Heart (power punch) "Enables the user to inflict Mega-Damage with his 'bare' hands as if his P.S. attribute was supernatural" (ie SN PS)
-Chain with a Broken Link (strength) "Instills Supernatural strength" (ie PS is now SN PS)

The existence of these tattoos wouldn't make as much sense if all T-men get SN PS.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:16 am
  

User avatar
Supreme Being

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:01 am
Posts: 5674
Location: Communing with the Keepers of the Desert
Comment: This space for rent.
ShadowLogan wrote:
Mack wrote:
Just noticed something related to this discussion.

Leafing through Atlantis, both Sunaj Assassins & Undead Slayers start with 2D4x10 MDC, whereas the T-Man/T-Monster gets +10 MDC, & the Maxi-Man gets +1D4x10 MD. Or to say the same thing in a different way, the two True Atlantean classes get a much stronger bonus than the human/ogre/elf classes. (Especially noteworthy is the Sunaj getting the high bonus despite having the least tattoos.)

One could speculate that the transformation is more potent for a True Atlantean.

I'll have to look into this a bit more later.

Something else to consider are existing tattooos (see WB2 or BoM):
-Bleeding Heart (power punch) "Enables the user to inflict Mega-Damage with his 'bare' hands as if his P.S. attribute was supernatural" (ie SN PS)
-Chain with a Broken Link (strength) "Instills Supernatural strength" (ie PS is now SN PS)

The existence of these tattoos wouldn't make as much sense if all T-men get SN PS.


The one caveat to that would be the TA Nomad (and the like) who are not ful T-men. For those characters, the two tattoos you mentioned make sense.

_________________
Love your neighbor.
It's Rifts. It doesn't have to make sense.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:33 pm
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 878
"Bleeding Heart" and "Chain with a Broken Link" are great for an NPC that needs a quick unexpected threat boost. Or for a player (usually a martial artist in my experience) looking for a boost in their potential power.

Would I waste them on a T-Man if said T-Man had supernatural strength? Not likely... though a +6 to P.S. (Chain...) can (in theory) be useful in an of itself... though I'd not likely consider it given the limits of tattoo magic.

_________________
"If your plan relies upon chance to succeed, then you've already failed."
"Sometimes to achieve the greatest good, one must commit great evil."


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:23 am
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 9481
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Slight001 wrote:
"Bleeding Heart" and "Chain with a Broken Link" are great for an NPC that needs a quick unexpected threat boost. Or for a player (usually a martial artist in my experience) looking for a boost in their potential power.

Would I waste them on a T-Man if said T-Man had supernatural strength? Not likely... though a +6 to P.S. (Chain...) can (in theory) be useful in an of itself... though I'd not likely consider it given the limits of tattoo magic.

It also could be used as "training wheels"
The T-man can get used to supernatural strength a bit at a time via the Tattoo during the build up process.
Then, once they have learned to handle the strength carefully and don't accidentally rip doors of their hinges, or crush peoples hands to a pulp or the like...then, and only then do they get their seventh tattoo and get transformed permanently.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:00 am
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 878
eliakon wrote:
Slight001 wrote:
"Bleeding Heart" and "Chain with a Broken Link" are great for an NPC that needs a quick unexpected threat boost. Or for a player (usually a martial artist in my experience) looking for a boost in their potential power.

Would I waste them on a T-Man if said T-Man had supernatural strength? Not likely... though a +6 to P.S. (Chain...) can (in theory) be useful in an of itself... though I'd not likely consider it given the limits of tattoo magic.

It also could be used as "training wheels"
The T-man can get used to supernatural strength a bit at a time via the Tattoo during the build up process.
Then, once they have learned to handle the strength carefully and don't accidentally rip doors of their hinges, or crush peoples hands to a pulp or the like...then, and only then do they get their seventh tattoo and get transformed permanently.


That's not a bad argument for why such tats would be included for any reason other than to cheat the client.

_________________
"If your plan relies upon chance to succeed, then you've already failed."
"Sometimes to achieve the greatest good, one must commit great evil."


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:55 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
Posts: 5392
Are there any examples of any Atlanteans being explicitly listed as having inherent supernatural strength or endurance (not just being a supernatural being) prior to SOTA? I don't think Galahad qualifies, see below...

RockJock wrote:
Page 123 of my hardback Secrets of Atlantis talks about a TA Cyber Knight with 8 tats, MDC, SNPS, and SNPE. This is basically the same as the description under the TA Nomad Paladin. Based on that I would go with any TA with 7 or more tats getting SNPS and all that jazz.

Yup, right column...
"This makes the Atlantean Cyber-Knight a minor Mega-Damage being who possesses Supernatural P.S. and P.E."
Unless there's something special about this OCC which makes the tats work better, your theory sounds right.

ShadowLogan wrote:
Something else to consider are existing tattooos (see WB2 or BoM):
-Bleeding Heart (power punch) "Enables the user to inflict Mega-Damage with his 'bare' hands as if his P.S. attribute was supernatural" (ie SN PS)
-Chain with a Broken Link (strength) "Instills Supernatural strength" (ie PS is now SN PS)

The existence of these tattoos wouldn't make as much sense if all T-men get SN PS.

I remember the chain gives a +6 bonus if it's already supernatural, so that's incentive.

As for Bleeding Heart, well there's always those with merely 1-6 tats using it (though the doubled PPE cost makes power tats pretty prohibitive for anyone but mages)

42dragon wrote:
WB2, England has a champion of Camelot who is a TA Undead Slayer where it is called out as supernatural strength.

If you are referring to Galahad on page 109, I'm reading:
considered to be a supernatural being with superhuman strength and endurance

Does anyone have any printing which says superNATURAL instead of superHUMAN?

I always figured that was just referring to him having a PS of 22, which is far above the human norm.

Galahad is an extremely weird case, of course, since page 110 mentions him getting a "+7 M.D. damage" under Bonuses... Not even Prrcyval has that on his bonus list on 108.

Perhaps Galahad is a demigod son of Bres the Beautiful or something, because he also has a strange "+10 M.D.C. damage" on page 128. Daga has DOUBLE that on 130.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:22 pm
  

User avatar
Supreme Being

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:01 am
Posts: 5674
Location: Communing with the Keepers of the Desert
Comment: This space for rent.
Axelmania wrote:
If you are referring to Galahad on page 109, I'm reading:
considered to be a supernatural being with superhuman strength and endurance

Does anyone have any printing which says superNATURAL instead of superHUMAN?


Don't overthink it. It's a simple editing error. If KS intended for Galahad to have an unusual type of strength, there would be something much more significant than the second half of an adjective. The context is clear.

_________________
Love your neighbor.
It's Rifts. It doesn't have to make sense.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:01 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
Posts: 5392
Er, just to clarify, are you saying it's clear he isn't meant to have supernatural strength? That's the point I'm making here since 42dragon mentioned him having supernatural PS.

For contrast though: Sir Dred's PS is 2 points higher than Galahad yet his strength is never described as Superhuman...

Strangely enough, page 107 makes no mention under "Attributes" of Prrcyvel having supernatural PS. Can anyone find mention of that anywhere else?

Come to think of it... checking on page 48 I'm having trouble finding it saying the Chaing-Ku have supernatural PS. I always assumed they did because the original 4 hatchlings in the main book (horned/fire/ice/thunder) all had it... but maybe I shouldn't jump to that conclusion?

I would be 100% fine if they didn't have it, it would help to offset their insane power (infinite metamorph) and fit better with their idea as subtle manipulators, or explain their reliance on things like Magic Weapon tattoos to do MD.

In WB4 I can't seem to find any reference to SNPS for Lo Fung (153) or Fang-Ki/Abkii (154). The only Chaing-Ku NPC I can see to find with explicit SNPS is Rama-Set as page 143 mentions "attributes are considered to be supernatural".

Wouldn't it be interesting if Rama-Set were the exception to an otherwise weak species of dragon? Perhaps he got it some other way other than his race? Who's to say that the basic 4 species having SNPS requires pigeon-holing all future species of dragon into that?


          Top  
 
 
Post new topic Reply to topic



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group