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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:30 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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Rifts England introduces Mystic Herbology. I'm just looking this over in depth for the first time, and I find it fascinating. It let users create "magic teas, tonics, elixirs, potions, salves and balms." But "ONLY druids" can "create magic wands, staves and other items empowered by or use magic herbs; the herbalist cannot."

Herbalist can't make items. That's pretty simple.

The Woodland Druids section shows each OCC as having different mystic herbology skills:
1. Filidh - "The creation and use of magic herbs for divination, visions and protection against the supernatural."
2. Dryad - "The creation and use of magic herbs of all kinds."
3. Scathach - "The creation and use of magic herbs of all kinds."

So what can each OCC actually make? (Ignore the scathach's OCC specific abilities.)

Simplest solution would be that all druid OCCs can make all the things, herboloy edition. Anybody actually ruled otherwise?


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:35 pm
  

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Knight

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Dryad and Scathach I think can do all, Dryads have the best skill though. Filidh have better skill than Scathach but I view their lack of "all" and specifications to mean that it needs to fit one of the 3 criteria (divine/see/protect) but it would be nice to have an official list of what is included.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:10 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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Axelmania wrote:
Dryad and Scathach I think can do all, Dryads have the best skill though. Filidh have better skill than Scathach but I view their lack of "all" and specifications to mean that it needs to fit one of the 3 criteria (divine/see/protect) but it would be nice to have an official list of what is included.

I can see that. Skill level's important, and it wouldn't be to hard to go through the list to determine what the Filidh gets.

I have this vision of a druid going, "Spluggies. That's just *wrong.* I'm not a bio-wizard, a bio-mancer, or a rune weapon creator, but I can create some magic items. Time to take stand." Scathach would have the best collection of toys.

Bonus Points if your Scathach is a True Atlantean: more PPE, magic tattoos, and a familiarity with magic pyramids for extra knowledge.
Bonus Bonus Points if your Scathach is a psychic of the minor or major variety: moar superpowers!
Bonus Bonus Bonus Points if you can con the DM into allowing your Scathach the Principles of Magic skill and Incantation Specialist sorcerous proficiency from Nightbane's Through the Glass Darkly: you can cast 4 invocations! (Limited to levels 1-4; but hey, moar superpowers!)

(ETA: Spelling. Always spelling.)


Last edited by thorr-kan on Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:57 am
  

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Knight

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True Atlanteans are weak. Their immunity to transformation impedes them from achieving true power.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:18 pm
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

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Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
Here's my opinions, with a few justifications.

(H)erbalist: teas, tonics, elixirs, and other one-time-use; the section is written with the usual Palladium clarity, but "His most sought after abilities are the creating of powerful teas and potions from these magic plants" makes me comfortable giving them many of the one-time use things that aren't summoning-related.... teas, potions, snuff, and food.
(F)ilidh: divination, visions, protection from the supernatural. Sometimes liberally interpreted
(D)ryad: Any
(S)cathach: Any; if it were up to me, I'd limit them to wands, staves, and similar weapon-like creations, but there we are.

Alder
Summoning Leaves: D,S
Wand: F, D, S (allows them to hold air elementals at bay)

Amaranth:
Youth Potion: H, D, S

Ash
Wand: D, S
Leaf: H, D, S

Ash: Rowan
Tea/Potion: H, D, S
Salve: H, D, S

Belladonna
Paralysis Potion: H, D, S
Poison Potion: H, D, S

Blackthorn
Berries: H, F, D, S (explicitly can be made into a potion, defensive in nature)

Black Hellebore
Incense Leaves: H, F, D, S (H is a little questionable, TBH, but I'm cool with Herbalists making leaves with no mechanical value)
Protection Potion: H, F, D, S
Insanity curse cure: H, F, D, S (F is a little weak; it's a cure, which might arguably be considered protection from supernatural, but since it only works on curses, I'm more comfortable with it)

Carline Thistle
Wand: F, D, S

Castor Oil
See Invisible Potion: H, F, D, S
Cure Blindness Lotion: H, D, S

Catnip
Magic Stims: H, D, S
Anti-cat Incense: H, F, D, S

Cedar
Magic Staff: F, D, S (F is questionable; it's a protective item, but not specific to the supernatural)

Red Clover:
Burn Heal ointment: H, D, S
Food: H, D, S

White Clover
Lucky Charm: F, D, S
4-leaf charm: F, D, S

Dwarf Elder
Anti-drunk potion: H, D, S

Black Elder
Harmful Potions: H, D, S

Ergot
Hallucination Potion: H, F, D, S
Anti-Illusion Potion: H, F, D, S
Psychic Potion: H, F, D, S

Foxglove
Negate Poison Potion: H, D, S

Ginseng
Impervious to Fatigue Potion: H, D, S
Super-speed potion: H, D, S

Holy Thistle
Food Poisoning Leaf/Tea: H, D, S
Cure Magic sickness or alien disease: H, F, D, S (again, I am using the "Combat magical ailment" to call it available to F)
Supernatural Strength Potion: H, D, S

Horsetail
Impervious to gases potion: H, F, D, S (since it works against magic gases, F)
breathe without air potion: H, D, S

Jimsonweed/Thornapple
Pipeweed/Chaw: F, D, S
Negate Faerie Food: H, F, D, S

Mandrake
Divination tea: H, F, D, S
Befuddle Potion: H, D, S
Empathy Potion: H, F, D, S
Telepathy Potion: H, F, D, S
Voodoo Doll: D, S

Mistletoe:
Charismatic Aura Potion: H, D, S
Imeprvious to Fire Potion: H, D, S
Float in Air Potion: H, D, S
Amulet: F, D, S (most amulets are protective)

Oak Tree
Holy Water: H, F, D, S (I'm saying since Holy water specifically works as a weapon and ward against supernatural, it falls under F)
Food Acorn: H, D, S
Chameleon Potion: H, D, S
Armor of Ithan bark: H, D, S
Tracking Root: H, F, D, S
Oracle Tea: H, F, D, S
Dowsing Wand: F, D, S
Throwing Stick: D, S
Staff of Strength: D, S (you might argue F, since it gives some save bonuses, but I lean towards no)

Rue
Holy Water: H, F, D, S
Sleep Potion: H, D, S
Sleep Wand: D, S
Anti-Magic Wand or Staff: D, S (arguably F, since there's protection from magic involved, but I lean towards no)

Solomon's Seal
Elemental summoning leaves: D, S
Sprig of elemental Control: F, D, S (again, the sprig will hold lesser elementals at bay, so F)

Willow
Impervious to Energy Tea: H, D, S
Lighting Rod Staff: D, S

Wormwood:
Protection Ointment/Powder: H, F, D, S

Brain Tree:
Oracle Tea: H, F, D, S
Eyes of Thoth Potion: H, F, D, S
Trance Potion" H, D, S
Staff of Spirits: F, D, S (the spells are all protective or divinatory)
Electrokinetic Rod: D, S
Crystal Ball: F, D, S

Cobra Vine:
Cure Vampire Bite: H, D, S
Blood Tea: H, D, S
Transform Man into Snake: Chris Latta

Dagda's Scepter
Oracle Tea: H, F, D, S
Sense Magic and evil tea: H, F, D, S
Commune with spirits tea: H, F, D, S
Impervious to Fire: H, D, S
Resist Fire: H, D, S
Invulnerability: H, D, S
Healing Ointment: H, D, S

Faerie's Cauldron:
Water to wine potion: H, D, S
Spoil food or water potion: H, D, S
Negate Poison Potion: H, D, S
Metamorphosis Potions: H, D, S
Petrification Potion: H, D, S
Stone to Flesh Potion: H, D, S

(Snapper Heart and Tower Shrooms have no special magical properties when processed by Mystic Herbology)

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:01 pm
  

Palladin

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just to muddy the waters further, the dryad druid OCC indicates that it is the only one that can make everything from mystic herbology.

this is, of course, incredibly unspecific. good luck figuring out which herbal magic items the other druid types are supposed to be unable to make, i don't believe they ever give even a shred more detail than that, but it does rule out scathach being able to make everything (it does not, however, rule out the scathach being able to make everything except a single feature of a single plant, and your guess is as good as anyone else's as to what they're supposed to not have).


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:31 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:08 am
Posts: 335
I'd be curious as to opinions regarding what a Plant Shaman can create with MH. My gut reaction is they can make whatever a Herbalist can.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:52 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Curbludgeon wrote:
I'd be curious as to opinions regarding what a Plant Shaman can create with MH. My gut reaction is they can make whatever a Herbalist can.

Assuming that a GM didn't remove that (seriously why do Plant Shamans need to have all the special abilities of three other classes :-? ) I would agree. They are not a Druid, ergo they can only make the herbal cures.
This would also explain why there are no MH magic items running around the New West books... because no one can make them locally, even if they can brew up some potions and poultices and stuff.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:50 pm
  

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Knight

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Shark_Force wrote:
the dryad druid OCC indicates that it is the only one that can make everything from mystic herbology
..
it does rule out scathach being able to make everything

Where? I can't seem to spot it. Page 40 has "the most powerful of all" and "the ultimate masters of herb magic" but I figure that just referred to them having the highest % bonus to MH. Page 41 says the Scathach can make "all kinds", just like the Dryad. Their lack of adeptness I took as reference to their having the lowest bonus.

eliakon wrote:
why do Plant Shamans need to have all the special abilities of three other classes :-? )

Probably the same reason they let Gypsies have them in Russia (which also let Gargoyle Mages be Herbalists)

Or why Canada allowed non-humans to have Shamanic OCCs which were supposed to be limited to a specific ethnic heritage of humans.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:26 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Axelmania wrote:
eliakon wrote:
why do Plant Shamans need to have all the special abilities of three other classes :-? )

Probably the same reason they let Gypsies have them in Russia (which also let Gargoyle Mages be Herbalists)

Or why Canada allowed non-humans to have Shamanic OCCs which were supposed to be limited to a specific ethnic heritage of humans.


I was pointing out that Plant Shamans get
Earth Warlock Spells
AND
Biomancy
AND
Herbal Magic
on top of the ability to take any invocation spell, and their various shaman spells.

The words "Mary Sue" seem to be most apropriate here frankly...(I dont use that word term lightly as it has a lot of bagage and is often used an a pejoritive to dismiss writers... but the Native Americans and Lemurians are classic examples of the trope)

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:27 am
  

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Knight

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Of couse, Shamans lose their powers if they die. If a Biomancer or Earth Warlock or Herbalist ever die and get resurrected they'll still have their power.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:31 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:09 am
Posts: 292
Mark Hall wrote:
Here's my opinions, with a few justifications.

Mark, that's a lot of work and appreciated. Thanks.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:21 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:08 am
Posts: 335
While I know of Plant Shamans having access to plant-related spells in Biomancy and Nature Magic, I would be interested to find reference to similar statements regarding Earth Warlock spells or Invocations outside their initial delimited list.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:28 am
  

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Knight

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It sounds like wires might've been crossed with the Elemental Shaman also found in Spirit West?


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