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Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:58 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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They are the purview of psychics and magic-users, respectively. So those OCC/PCC/RCCs have built in mechanisms for gaining more ISP and PPE. If you're not a psychic or a magic-user, you have no ISP or only residual PPE.

And that's that.

But training exists that can increase your ISP or PPE. Skills to the rescue! Rifts Japan has H2H Akido and Zanji Shinjinken-Ryo, both of which double your PPE at a certain level. Rifts Psyscape has Third-Eye and Coalition Psionic Training, both of which add ISP.

For that matter, Systems Failure's NORAD Psychics' training gives additional powers to minor and majors psychics. There's gotta be a way to quantify that...


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:36 pm
  

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thorr-kan wrote:
They are the purview of psychics and magic-users, respectively. So those OCC/PCC/RCCs have built in mechanisms for gaining more ISP and PPE. If you're not a psychic or a magic-user, you have no ISP or only residual PPE.

And that's that.

But training exists that can increase your ISP or PPE. Skills to the rescue! Rifts Japan has H2H Akido and Zanji Shinjinken-Ryo, both of which double your PPE at a certain level. Rifts Psyscape has Third-Eye and Coalition Psionic Training, both of which add ISP.

For that matter, Systems Failure's NORAD Psychics' training gives additional powers to minor and majors psychics. There's gotta be a way to quantify that...

I'm not sure what your talking about here to be honest?

I mean yes, we all know that most people don't get large pools of PPE... because they burn it off on other things and do not train to keep it. Same but moreso with ISP... if you do not have psychic powers (or one of their various ISP powered relations) then of course you have no ISP as ISP are part and parcel of the psychic (or phase, or chi, or what have you) ability in the first place.

There are a wide range of things that can offer PPE and/or ISP in the game that can be used to build up your pool if you want though. Again I'm not quite sure what your looking for.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:20 pm
  

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eliakon wrote:
There are a wide range of things that can offer PPE and/or ISP in the game that can be used to build up your pool if you want though. Again I'm not quite sure what your looking for.

If you are:
-minor/major psychic
-not a mage
-don't have access to exotic materials, symbionts, or magic items
what options exist to boost ISP and/or PPE?

Skills are all I can think of.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:12 pm
  

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Palladin

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thorr-kan wrote:
eliakon wrote:
There are a wide range of things that can offer PPE and/or ISP in the game that can be used to build up your pool if you want though. Again I'm not quite sure what your looking for.

If you are:
-minor/major psychic
-not a mage
-don't have access to exotic materials, symbionts, or magic items
what options exist to boost ISP and/or PPE?

Skills are all I can think of.

I am still not exactly following the issue.
From where I am looking...
On PPE Either you are a mage or not. If you are NOT a mage... then, by definition, you have not spent your focus on building up your PPE pool and instead have spent it on other things (this is a result of the Paladium metaphysics).
If you want PPE reserves and are not a mage... You can do some things, which run the gamut from "be raised in a magical community using TW devices" to "be born a nexus born" to the exotic "use various materials, symbionts, potions, skills, or visits to exotic locations"
basically... it shouldn't be easy to raise your PPE.

ISP is even harder to gain. The only people who get ISP. Period. Are Psychics, Phase Adepts, and Chiniese Martial Artists. Thats it.
If you do not start with the ability to have and gain ISP then you do not have it, and can not get it.
As every single example of 'things that allow you to have ISP' come with their own set of rules on how they are designed to allow you to get more ISP so as to have your power work as envisined... there isnt really a need for a wide range of sources. There are a few souces of a small boost here and there, again ranging from some basic skills to the more and more exotic. And again the sources are either small, rare, or both since gaining ISP isn't something that should be easy.

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Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:25 am
  

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thorr-kan wrote:
eliakon wrote:
There are a wide range of things that can offer PPE and/or ISP in the game that can be used to build up your pool if you want though. Again I'm not quite sure what your looking for.

If you are:
-minor/major psychic
-not a mage
-don't have access to exotic materials, symbionts, or magic items
what options exist to boost ISP and/or PPE?

Skills are all I can think of.


With what's you're ruling out, there's not much, and it somewhat depends on what you mean by "exotic". IIRC, Psi-Cola will give you a boost to ISP, but does that count as "exotic"? Is it a potion, thus nominally a magic item?

When you're talking about game mechanics options (i.e. not objects or events that exist in the world, but things that are defined for game purposes) that can be used to boost ISP and PPE, then you run into the problem that Palladium doesn't have a lot of fungible resources.... about the only thing you get to spend are skill choices. If you want more ISP or PPE, you can try to increase your M.E., maybe by learning an N&SS Martial Art or something... but, even then, that's likely to be rated in Skill Choices.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:57 pm
  

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Mark Hall wrote:
When you're talking about game mechanics options (i.e. not objects or events that exist in the world, but things that are defined for game purposes) that can be used to boost ISP and PPE, then you run into the problem that Palladium doesn't have a lot of fungible resources.... about the only thing you get to spend are skill choices. If you want more ISP or PPE, you can try to increase your M.E., maybe by learning an N&SS Martial Art or something... but, even then, that's likely to be rated in Skill Choices.

There; that's what I'm trying to say, only Mark's much more eloquent.

A Megaversal character has:
race
*CC
skills
equipment.

Race and *CC are set, once you pick them, you're gone. Equipment can be taken away. That leaves skills as the only option for game mechanics changes that is under the player's control. PPE and ISP are usually solely a function of *CC and dice. But a few skill choices can also affect them.

NOTE: I'm not making a value judgement here. I'm simply looking at what's available in the system.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:36 pm
  

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In theory, you might be able to trade one for the other... invest permanent PPE in increasing your ISP score... but I don't see that as a good option, since you'll then wind up with a bunch of Mind Melters with 1 PPE, since they have no need to maintain their 2d6 or whatever.

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Whiskerbutt (n): homemade RPG materials found in secondhand RPG materials.
[T]he Republicans [are] unique relics of the past. - Sourcebook 1 (revised, p. 6)

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:10 pm
  

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Mark Hall wrote:
In theory, you might be able to trade one for the other... invest permanent PPE in increasing your ISP score... but I don't see that as a good option, since you'll then wind up with a bunch of Mind Melters with 1 PPE, since they have no need to maintain their 2d6 or whatever.

I will admit I really loved the BTS 1ED version of psychics: spend PPE to pick your psychic powers.

I don't know how I'd implement this mechanically for existing characters, beyond the CS Psionic Training and Third-Eye Training from Rifts.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:36 pm
  

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thorr-kan wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:
When you're talking about game mechanics options (i.e. not objects or events that exist in the world, but things that are defined for game purposes) that can be used to boost ISP and PPE, then you run into the problem that Palladium doesn't have a lot of fungible resources.... about the only thing you get to spend are skill choices. If you want more ISP or PPE, you can try to increase your M.E., maybe by learning an N&SS Martial Art or something... but, even then, that's likely to be rated in Skill Choices.

There; that's what I'm trying to say, only Mark's much more eloquent.

A Megaversal character has:
race
*CC
skills
equipment.

Race and *CC are set, once you pick them, you're gone. Equipment can be taken away. That leaves skills as the only option for game mechanics changes that is under the player's control. PPE and ISP are usually solely a function of *CC and dice. But a few skill choices can also affect them.

NOTE: I'm not making a value judgement here. I'm simply looking at what's available in the system.

There are other things under the players control that are not skills
The example of a potion for isntance is not a skill, but can provide a boost.
Same for an implant, or Tattoo, or symbiont, or other such procedures.

There are also various trained abilities that are not skills in the game. The various martial arts abilities for instance are trained, yet are not skills.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:40 pm
  

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Mark Hall wrote:
In theory, you might be able to trade one for the other... invest permanent PPE in increasing your ISP score... but I don't see that as a good option, since you'll then wind up with a bunch of Mind Melters with 1 PPE, since they have no need to maintain their 2d6 or whatever.


iirc most psychics have already burned most of their PPE into their psychic abilities. or at least, most of the ones i can remember. i can only imagine that if they had the means to burn off more of their PPE to get more ISP, they would probably have already done that...


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:53 pm
  

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Stumbled across another way for a psychic to gain ISP through training... Rifts Merc Adventures p41: psychic characters that complete the Boot Camp adventure receive a bonus of 1D8+1 to ISP.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:58 am
  

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Mack wrote:
Stumbled across another way for a psychic to gain ISP through training... Rifts Merc Adventures p41: psychic characters that complete the Boot Camp adventure receive a bonus of 1D8+1 to ISP.

And +1d6+2 PPE to practitioners of magic who successfully pass the course.

Good catch!


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:46 pm
  

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thorr-kan wrote:
Mack wrote:
Stumbled across another way for a psychic to gain ISP through training... Rifts Merc Adventures p41: psychic characters that complete the Boot Camp adventure receive a bonus of 1D8+1 to ISP.

And +1d6+2 PPE to practitioners of magic who successfully pass the course.

Good catch!

This would be a boon to any Mystic who can stomach the training. "Like, LT's aura is really intense, Sarge. So we're gonna take that hill!" (Why is does this voice sound like Sandi from Daria?)

Or any other spellcaster who happened to roll lucky with psionics.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:26 am
  

Palladin

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thorr-kan wrote:
thorr-kan wrote:
Mack wrote:
Stumbled across another way for a psychic to gain ISP through training... Rifts Merc Adventures p41: psychic characters that complete the Boot Camp adventure receive a bonus of 1D8+1 to ISP.

And +1d6+2 PPE to practitioners of magic who successfully pass the course.

Good catch!

This would be a boon to any Mystic who can stomach the training. "Like, LT's aura is really intense, Sarge. So we're gonna take that hill!" (Why is does this voice sound like Sandi from Daria?)

Or any other spellcaster who happened to roll lucky with psionics.


some other spellcasters also get guaranteed psionics. like techno-wizards.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:47 pm
  

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thorr-kan wrote:
eliakon wrote:
There are a wide range of things that can offer PPE and/or ISP in the game that can be used to build up your pool if you want though. Again I'm not quite sure what your looking for.

If you are:
-minor/major psychic
-not a mage
-don't have access to exotic materials, symbionts, or magic items
what options exist to boost ISP and/or PPE?

Skills are all I can think of.


Boosting ISP:
-PW has devices (using exotic materials) that can boost ISP (by reducing cost or storing it for later)
-Psi-Cola Drink/potion
-symbionts from Atlantis (usually, though there is at least one naturally occurring)
-Psi Implants (SB3 and WB12) that can boost ISP reserves (if one is a psychic)
-convert ISP <=> PPE
-Dimensional Portal in Atlantis (WB2) IIRC that is connected with the Asylum.

As for skill training: Cyber-Knight and Amaki Duelist OCCs essentially train to be able to use Psi-Sword (or a version of it).

eliakon wrote:
If you do not start with the ability to have and gain ISP then you do not have it, and can not get it.

Incorrect. A non-psychic can be turned into a psychic or gain access:
-M.O.M or Psynetic implants (Crazy OCC, SB3, WB12) can unlock psychic powers
-gain a symbiote from Atlantis (WB2/21) or other (WB12 has one or two IIRC)
-genetic engineering (Gene Splicers could probably do it given they can add powers to existing psychics)
-RCB1r would allow psychics to learn martial arts powers as psychic powers (in place of them)
-Cyber-Knight training grants psychic powers to all (meditation, Psi-Sword, Psi-Shield) members of the class, if you allow a character to change class (probably one of the few extreme cases that might exist)


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:11 pm
  

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ShadowLogan wrote:
eliakon wrote:
If you do not start with the ability to have and gain ISP then you do not have it, and can not get it.

Incorrect. A non-psychic can be turned into a psychic or gain access:
-M.O.M or Psynetic implants (Crazy OCC, SB3, WB12) can unlock psychic powers
-gain a symbiote from Atlantis (WB2/21) or other (WB12 has one or two IIRC)
-genetic engineering (Gene Splicers could probably do it given they can add powers to existing psychics)
-RCB1r would allow psychics to learn martial arts powers as psychic powers (in place of them)
-Cyber-Knight training grants psychic powers to all (meditation, Psi-Sword, Psi-Shield) members of the class, if you allow a character to change class (probably one of the few extreme cases that might exist)


All of which mean that you now have the ability that grants ISP
There is no canonical way to have ISP with out an ability to use (Godlings being the exception that proves the rule).

You can not simply train up some ISP.
You first have to gain an ISP using ability then you can work on getting more ISP.

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Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:35 am
  

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True, but you did say "If you do not start with the ability to have and gain ISP then you do not have it, and can not get it.". This is false though, which is my point. You can gain ISP and the ability to use it at a later time.

Jane the Vegabond (or City Rat) may have rolled and gotten non-psychic at time of creation roll can still get psychic powers at a later time by either trade (for implant/symbiotic) have a chance meeting (Gene Splicers, or one of the races in WB12 can bond with them granting them psychic powers) or by changing to a new OCC (Cyber-Knight being one of the few options).


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:27 pm
  

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ShadowLogan wrote:
True, but you did say "If you do not start with the ability to have and gain ISP then you do not have it, and can not get it.". This is false though, which is my point. You can gain ISP and the ability to use it at a later time.

Jane the Vegabond (or City Rat) may have rolled and gotten non-psychic at time of creation roll can still get psychic powers at a later time by either trade (for implant/symbiotic) have a chance meeting (Gene Splicers, or one of the races in WB12 can bond with them granting them psychic powers) or by changing to a new OCC (Cyber-Knight being one of the few options).

And your taking my words out of context to prove an imaginary point.
My ENTIRE statement was that ISP is the sole province of Psychics, Phase users, and Chinese Martial Artists.
Thus if you become one of those then you are in that province.
Now if you can demonstrate a way to gain ISP without becoming one of those you will have a point.
Other wise you are simply taking words out of context to justify a strawman.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:23 pm
  

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Nightbane Survival Guide, p51, under Special Aptitude Bonuses, Natural Affinity for Magic grants a +2d6 to permanent P.P.E. base. Again, not a lot, but it's something.


Last edited by thorr-kan on Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:52 pm
  

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Rifter 50 includes information that will be part of Chaos Earth's Psychic Storm book. Rifter 50 has the Latent Minor Psionics give I.S.P., but don't actually have psionic powers to use it on. It just...accumulates. Huh.

It'll be interesting to see if that's updated for the book.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:22 pm
  

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thorr-kan wrote:
Nightbane Survival Guide, p81, under Special Aptitude Bonuses, Natural Affinity for Magic grants a +2d6 to permanent P.P.E. base. Again, not a lot, but it's something.


Page 51, not 81. Nice find.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:18 pm
  

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Axelmania wrote:
thorr-kan wrote:
Nightbane Survival Guide, p51, under Special Aptitude Bonuses, Natural Affinity for Magic grants a +2d6 to permanent P.P.E. base. Again, not a lot, but it's something.


Page 51, not 81. Nice find.

<shifty eyes>
Dunno what you're talking about. Obviously says p51. Right there.
<\shifty eyes>

Not my catch; full props to 13eowulf for pointing it out to me. Original post has been corrected. ETA: Thanks for pointing out my typo. ETA: Frickin' spelling.


Last edited by thorr-kan on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:53 pm
  

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thorr-kan wrote:
Axelmania wrote:
thorr-kan wrote:
Nightbane Survival Guide, p51, under Special Aptitude Bonuses, Natural Affinity for Magic grants a +2d6 to permanent P.P.E. base. Again, not a lot, but it's something.


Page 51, not 81. Nice find.

<shifty eyes>
Dunno what you're talking about. Obviously says p51. Right there.
<\shifty eyes>

Not my catch; full props to 13eowulf for pointing it out to me. Original post has been corrected. ETA: Thanks for pointing out my type.



:ok: anytime.
Incidentally The Rifter 27 pg 26 has a version of the Tai Chi physical skill that explicitly grants extra ISP

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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:55 pm
  

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13eowulf wrote:
:ok: anytime.
Incidentally The Rifter 27 pg 26 has a version of the Tai Chi physical skill that explicitly grants extra ISP

I have that one...sure enough, there it is!

It references Rifter 7; anybody gotta summary of what it's referencing?


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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:04 am
  

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thorr-kan wrote:
13eowulf wrote:
:ok: anytime.
Incidentally The Rifter 27 pg 26 has a version of the Tai Chi physical skill that explicitly grants extra ISP

I have that one...sure enough, there it is!

It references Rifter 7; anybody gotta summary of what it's referencing?

Rifter 7 has a number of physical skills in it, but geared towards N&SS, thus some of them reference and boost Chi instead of ISP or PPE.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:49 am
  

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13eowulf wrote:
thorr-kan wrote:
13eowulf wrote:
:ok: anytime.
Incidentally The Rifter 27 pg 26 has a version of the Tai Chi physical skill that explicitly grants extra ISP

I have that one...sure enough, there it is!

It references Rifter 7; anybody gotta summary of what it's referencing?

Rifter 7 has a number of physical skills in it, but geared towards N&SS, thus some of them reference and boost Chi instead of ISP or PPE.

Catalog says Rifter 3 has some martial arts as well. I'll have to look into both of those.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:40 pm
  

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thorr-kan wrote:
Dunno what you're talking about. Obviously says p51. Right there.

Right you are! My mistake!


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:47 pm
  

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Axelmania wrote:
thorr-kan wrote:
Dunno what you're talking about. Obviously says p51. Right there.

Right you are! My mistake!

I love being a historical revisionist!

Seriously, thanks for pointing out that typo.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:49 am
  

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I know this is a bit old, but a few more ways to boost ISP/PPE.

Psycape "natives" get a boost to ISP. As I recall you need to be at least a minor psychic to start with. I'm guessing that is under the Third Eye part, but I thought I would throw it out there.

Arzno, page 75 talks about a mundane keeping a bit more PPE from childhood if they are exposed to TW gadgets and such. It isn't much, but it is a bit.

Familiars are another source. There has been much debate on who can and cannot have familiars, but if you are of the mind that a mundane can read a scroll and get a link to an animal that would be another route to a minor energy boost.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:57 am
  

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RockJock wrote:
Psycape "natives" get a boost to ISP. As I recall you need to be at least a minor psychic to start with. I'm guessing that is under the Third Eye part, but I thought I would throw it out there.

Third-Eye training I'm aware of.

RockJock wrote:
Arzno, page 75 talks about a mundane keeping a bit more PPE from childhood if they are exposed to TW gadgets and such. It isn't much, but it is a bit.

That one's new to me. Thanks!

RockJock wrote:
Familiars are another source. There has been much debate on who can and cannot have familiars, but if you are of the mind that a mundane can read a scroll and get a link to an animal that would be another route to a minor energy boost.

There are so many familiar sources...

Worth considering.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:11 pm
  

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Well, since this is still going, there are a few other options:

The Nexus Zone Ritual from Rifter 78 (page 72-73) has some outcomes that can boost PPE.

Adding Partial Conversion Bio-Borg (Splynn Dimensional Market, pg 157) can boost ISP and/or PPE, among other things, based on the number of augmentations and which type.
Having a Psymbiote for example (Psyscape page 105-108) potentially adds both ISP and PPE. Similarly having a Paratee (3 Galaxies, pages 91-92) can also increase PPE.

Being Nexus Born (Rifter 73, pg 49-50) comes with bonus PPE, but different factors affect how much.

The Queen's Own Warlock Guard (The Rifter 67, pages 60-96) includes a training program to increase the permanent PPE base of normal people to caster levels.

Atlantean Tatoos (for those that can get them) provide PPE bonuses, just keep it under 6 to prevent changing to a T-Man.

If a Gene Tech (Anvil Galaxy page 131-132) and/or Gene-Splicer (Mindwerks page 66) gets their hands on you you can wind up with extra PPE or ISP among other things.

If you have magic or psi, and enlist in the Thissera-Micean Cooperative (AUGG page 88-106) your special training will get you some extra ISP and/or PPE.

If Larry Mindstone doses you enough with his psionic drug (VU for HU2 page 196), you gain psi powers and ISP.

Surviving being nailed to Yggdrasil (CB2 pg 161-162) will net you PPE equal to a Ley Line Walker.

Surviving Bio-Vat exposure (Dyvall pages 124-126) have the potential to boost their ISP and PPE bases.

Reading a book from the Tartarus Library (Shadows of Light page 53-54) holds the potential to add both to your PPE and ISP.

Completing the Tennessee Headhunter's boot camp (Mercenary Adventures page 38-49) can boost both ISP and PPE at different times.

Exposure to Azlum Asylum (Atlantis page 28-30) will provide exactly 111 ISP.

If you were raised and educated in Lazlo (Rifter 49 page 35) you get additional PPE added to your permanent base.

If you are a magic user and want even more PPE there is a Sorcerous Proficieny in Rifter 27 (page 60) that will help.

There is also the option of the Half-Wizard add on from MOM1 (pages 69-71), that adds PPE and spell casting, though there are restrictions on taking it.

And Latent Psionics from Rifter 50 (pages 51-52) will add ISP, and other boosts, but no actual psi powers.

Edit: Oh, and lets not forget Rifter 44 page 51, and the Mental Exercises skill.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:16 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:09 am
Posts: 292
13eowulf wrote:
<SNIP!>

Thanks, 13eowulf. That's quite a list.


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