How would you make Fire Warlok magic better?

[Glistam]

I've long been underwhelmed with the spell selection given to the Fire Warlock. I was thinking of what spells could be added to improve the utility of the O.C.C., and I thought I'd collect some thoughts from other folks as well.

From the Rifts: Book of Magic, I thought these invocations made some sense:

• Level 3: Create Wood (10/20 P.P.E.)
• Level 6: Barrage (15 P.P.E.)
• Level 7: Ballistic Fire (25 P.P.E.)
• Level 10: Meteor (75 P.P.E.)
• Level 11: Firequake (160 P.P.E.)
• Level 12: Heavy Air (200 P.P.E.)

What I like about these spells above is that Impervious from Energy or even Impervious to Fire don't offer any resistance - something the Fire Warlock sorely needs.

Through the Glass Darkly offers one spell in particular, called Scarlet Pepper, that seemed neat.

Living Fire Magic seems thematically appropriate, but ultimate felt like just "more of the same" as I looked the spells over.

Blue Flame Magic seemed an interesting fit, but looks like it might be a little powerful.

I thought I saw a spell somewhere in Palladium's catalogue that was similar to the D&D "Fireball," where the fireball would explode upon a radius, but I can't find it now.

I had a thought that Illusion magic might fit within the Fire Warlock's wheelhouse rather nicely. The Invisibility spells, Multiple Image, Apparation, Horrific Image, Mask of Deceit, and others as well. I'm not sure if that doesn't increase the spells they have available by too much, though.

I thought I'd collect some thoughts. What other spells exist that someone might consider adding to the Fire Warlock spell list? What about the thoughts I've presented - too much? Not enough? Let me know!

[ShadowLogan]

Have you considered adapting Elemental Fusionist Powers that involve their element though with a higher cost, and maintaining any activation requirements (like dousing self it water to set it aflame in Flame Coat). EFs are close to Warlocks in nature, so being able to borrow from them seems likely.

I think though that if you include some other Spell/Rituals from other branches of magic into Warlock Elemental Magic that they should maintain the element's flavor. So a Magic Pigeon would for a Fire Warlock appear to be on fire, Horrific Image would be "fire" related, etc.

[eliakon]

I tend to allow Warlocks to have access to any spell that has an elemental affinity for their element.
Thus Fire Warlocks have access to any spell that relates to fire/heat
Air Warlocks have access to all spells that relate to air/electricity/gasses
Water Warlocks get all spells that affect water/liquids
Earth Warlocks get all spells that affect earth/rock/dirt

I also am pretty liberal in allowing the player of a Warlock to try and justify why a spell should be allowed. If they can make the case to me that a spell should be allowed then I will add it to the house rules list for all future warlocks.

[flatline]

Enhance the Flame Friend to have 100PPE and the ability to cast fire spells levels 1-4 to make it more consistent with the summonable critters of the other elements.

[Axelmania]

That could be a bit strong, maybe all first level spells like a Little Ice Monster? That still lets you mass-produce Coal on the cheap.

[Glistam]

Anyone have any idea if there's a spell which causes a ball of fire to strike a target and then explode, damaging everything within a radius? I swear I saw it once somewhere in Palladium, but now that I'm looking for it I can't find it and I'm beginning to think I'm crazy.

[Shark_Force]

Anyone have any idea if there's a spell which causes a ball of fire to strike a target and then explode, damaging everything within a radius? I swear I saw it once somewhere in Palladium, but now that I'm looking for it I can't find it and I'm beginning to think I'm crazy.

sounds like the meteor spell. standard invocation magic, level 10 spell.

[ShadowLogan]

Anyone have any idea if there's a spell which causes a ball of fire to strike a target and then explode, damaging everything within a radius? I swear I saw it once somewhere in Palladium, but now that I'm looking for it I can't find it and I'm beginning to think I'm crazy.

sounds like the meteor spell. standard invocation magic, level 10 spell.

Could be:
Fireblast (BoM pg101) or Firegout (BoM pg 115), though it isn't a ball it just cuts a large path of flame hitting everything in range unless its to massive.
Dragonfire (pg128 BoM) maybe?
Annihilate (BoM pg150), anti-matter
Spiral Fire Blast (BoM pg165, Living Fire Magic), not quite a ball of fire

Not sure, but a Nightbane version of a spell might be what you are thinking about I've heard it is different than other version (in the Call Lightning vs Fireball thread, also in said threead drewkitty mentions a fireball type spell with a radius, but no cited source).

A Custom Ward might also be able to do it.

[Axelmania]

I love the idea of giving them Scarlet Pepper but I don't see how Create Wood fits.

[eliakon]

Anyone have any idea if there's a spell which causes a ball of fire to strike a target and then explode, damaging everything within a radius? I swear I saw it once somewhere in Palladium, but now that I'm looking for it I can't find it and I'm beginning to think I'm crazy.

sounds like the meteor spell. standard invocation magic, level 10 spell.

Could be:
Fireblast (BoM pg101) or Firegout (BoM pg 115), though it isn't a ball it just cuts a large path of flame hitting everything in range unless its to massive.
Dragonfire (pg128 BoM) maybe?
Annihilate (BoM pg150), anti-matter
Spiral Fire Blast (BoM pg165, Living Fire Magic), not quite a ball of fire

Not sure, but a Nightbane version of a spell might be what you are thinking about I've heard it is different than other version (in the Call Lightning vs Fireball thread, also in said threead drewkitty mentions a fireball type spell with a radius, but no cited source).

A Custom Ward might also be able to do it.

The Nightbane Fireball is that like several other spells, the Nightbane version has a much higher damage. Which makes sense... the targets in that game are a lot tougher so they upped the damage output for that game as well.

[Glistam]

I love the idea of giving them Scarlet Pepper but I don't see how Create Wood fits.

I included it because of their spell "Create Coal."

[ShadowLogan]

I love the idea of giving them Scarlet Pepper but I don't see how Create Wood fits.

I included it because of their spell "Create Coal."

Create Wood, much like Create Coal, means you also have fuel for fire to ignite/sustain itself.

Could you be thinking of "Fire Globe" regarding the exploding ball of fire? It doesn't have a radius effect but does "explode". Is it possible it wasn't fire, but something else or even a TW/magic-item?

[Axelmania]

Coals are created from long-burning fires, it would make sense for them to exist in the fire elemental plane. Unburnt wood, not as much, that's an earth spell.

[Riftmaker]

Add an armor spell of some kind.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Level 3: Create Wood (10/20 P.P.E.) is more an earth related spell. "look at that plant growing out of the dirt"
While it might be handy to make fuel for the fire it isn't a fire spell.

Level 10: Meteor (75 P.P.E.) is also closer to and earth concept then fire. "look a rock falling from space"

[Marcethus]

Add an armor spell of some kind.

You ask and it shall be done:

Efreeti Armor
Level 3 Fire Warlock Spell/Living Fire Magic (If allowed for other Mages would be level 4 or 5)
Range: Self or others by Touch
Duration: 1 minute (4 melee Rounds) per Level
MDC: 15 MDC per level of the caster
Effect: When cast Efreeti Armor summons a suit of armor that is made of flames. It has a demonic visage giving it HF: 12 +1 for every 3 levels of the Caster. When in effect the caster is immune to all forms of fire, heat, and flame attacks. Anyone grappling with or using hand to hand attacks against the wearer of the armor takes 2d6 Fire/Heat Damage from coming into contact with the armor. Adds +1d6 to physical hand to hand attacks (I.E. Punches, kicks and the like)

Note: I created this off the top of my head and I do not know if there already is a similar armor spell for fire magic users.

[Glistam]

Level 3: Create Wood (10/20 P.P.E.) is more an earth related spell. "look at that plant growing out of the dirt"
While it might be handy to make fuel for the fire it isn't a fire spell.

Level 10: Meteor (75 P.P.E.) is also closer to and earth concept then fire. "look a rock falling from space"

The elements do overlap, as seen by River of Lava being both a Fire and an Earth element spell. Not to mention the ice magic found within both Fire and Water. Meteor especially - the 80's movie Firestarter has a pyrokinetic summoning meteors from the sky in the finale. It doesn't get much more fire-themed than that.

[ShadowLogan]

@Marcethus
Elemental Fusionist has a fire based armor spell/ability (it has physical requirements to cast though)

Living Fire Magic at Level 5 offers "Armor of Svarozhich" (pg164 BoM)

Level 3: Create Wood (10/20 P.P.E.) is more an earth related spell. "look at that plant growing out of the dirt"
While it might be handy to make fuel for the fire it isn't a fire spell.

Level 10: Meteor (75 P.P.E.) is also closer to and earth concept then fire. "look a rock falling from space"

Actually both spells have their place on both lists and there is precedent for multi-placement (Circle of Rain is both Water/Air, Cloud of Steam is Water/Air/Fire, Drought is Water and Fire, Freeze Water is Water/Air/Fire, Heal Burns is Water/Fire, Hurricane is Water/Air, Protection from Lightning Air/Water, Resist Cold Air/Water/Fire, River of Lava is Fire/Earth, Snow Storm is Water/Air, Wall of Ice is Fire/Water are all multi-Elemental magic spells in 2E Palladium Fantasy)
-Meteors though are encased in flame per the descriptive text (and in actual practice)
-Create Wood is no different really than having Create Coal, which is a fire spell

[drewkitty ~..~]

Create wood would be more earth and water then earth and fire.

If I allowed the C.W. spell as a fire warlock spell, based on what you said about the Create coal spell, it would be modified from the canon spell to only make firewood.

[Glistam]

Create wood would be more earth and water then earth and fire.

If I allowed the C.W. spell as a fire warlock spell, based on what you said about the Create coal spell, it would be modified from the canon spell to only make firewood.

So, cut logs ready to burn rather than planks of wood ready to be used in construction or burned?

[drewkitty ~..~]

Create wood would be more earth and water then earth and fire.

If I allowed the C.W. spell as a fire warlock spell, based on what you said about the Create coal spell, it would be modified from the canon spell to only make firewood.

So, cut logs ready to burn rather than planks of wood ready to be used in construction or burned?

yup
That part of the spell mirrors the concept of the create coal spell from the E. fire spells.

Or maybe make a new spell called create charcoal. The creates something like briquets for burning use.

[Glistam]

Anyone have any idea if there's a spell which causes a ball of fire to strike a target and then explode, damaging everything within a radius? I swear I saw it once somewhere in Palladium, but now that I'm looking for it I can't find it and I'm beginning to think I'm crazy.

HAHAHAHAHA! I found it! It's called FIRESTORM. It's a Level 8 invocation in the Heroes Unlimited G.M.'s Guide (page 188!)

[Axelmania]

HU has magic unique to it that isnt just some reprint from PF or Rifts? I'll be...

[Glistam]

HU has magic unique to it that isnt just some reprint from PF or Rifts? I'll be...

As a matter of fact, it does. Both Aliens Unlimited and the Aliens Unlimited Galaxy Guide have several spells seen nowhere else in the Megaverse. Some that come to mind:

Sticky Feet - A carpet of adhesion that lets you walk through it slowly and just keeps you adhered to the surface you're walking through.

Cold Wall - A wall of intense cold

Ice Blast - A cone shaped blast of cold and Ice (5 ft diameter at 90 ft) that always hits and needs an 18 or higher to dodge.

Here's the entire Heroes Unlimited spell list

[Glistam]

Enhance the Flame Friend to have 100PPE and the ability to cast fire spells levels 1-4 to make it more consistent with the summonable critters of the other elements.

A good option but after talking with the G.M. I was instead given the option of designing a higher level spell that would offer this utility. Once I have that written up I'll post it here.

[Axelmania]

I just realized HU's version of Create Dimensional Portal has the benefit of half PPE at nexuses. Same with PF. Original Rifts and NB are full cost always. Not sure about RUE, will check later.

[Glistam]

I just realized HU's version of Create Dimensional Portal has the benefit of half PPE at nexuses. Same with PF. Original Rifts and NB are full cost always. Not sure about RUE, will check later.

I wouldn't give that spell to a Fire Warlock though.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I am playing a NightSpawn in a game that started out in the rifts setting, and he…well we ended up on a PF world where the elves are 'top dog'.
He let me trade in my latest 'free' talent for the warlock abilities(fire) and my char is now able to take E. Fire Spells as talents.

Yep, this is a "house rule" but it does make the elemental magic more interesting.

[say652]

I would allow Warlocks to use their magics similar to psionics.

The faster spell rate would show their instinctive link to the element of choice.

[Marcethus]

I would allow Warlocks to use their magics similar to psionics.

The faster spell rate would show their instinctive link to the element of choice.

That's not a bad idea given that their spell levels only go up to Level 8.

[Glistam]

I hope in the near future to sit down and finish fleshing out my plans for this Fire Warlock and her spells, but ultimately they involve:

• The extra fire/energy/force spells I described originally.
• A new spell to create a better essence fragment
• Illusion magic

While there aren't many of them, I am also glad that both the Mysteries of Magic and Bizantium Palladium Fantasy books at least incorporate a few Fire Warlock spells. That helped with rounding out her spell selection. I might include Cold Wall from Aliens Unlimited, too, since cold magic (and some ice magic) does find itself within the Fire Warlock's purview.

[Marcethus]

Blue Flame Magic from SA2 might be something to consider as well.

[Mack]

Allow them to take spell versions of the Elemental Fusionist's powers in RUE. So instead of picking an Elemental spell, they select a Fusionist one instead.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Blue Flame Magic from SA2 might be something to consider as well.

the blue flam magic is not that different in it's effects then the elemental fire magics.

[Marcethus]

Allow them to take spell versions of the Elemental Fusionist's powers in RUE. So instead of picking an Elemental spell, they select a Fusionist one instead.

Isn't that listed as an option listed under the Fusionist?

Blue Flame Magic from SA2 might be something to consider as well.

the blue flam magic is not that different in it's effects then the elemental fire magics.

Hence why I was pointing it out.

[Glistam]

I like the idea of the Elemental Fusionist but the way their elements were combined to make their powera underwhelms me.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I like the idea of the Elemental Fusionist but the way their elements were combined to make their powera underwhelms me.

That is because they got "balanced" before being published.

[Zer0 Kay]

Make it fully morphic so "spells" can be built on the fly.

[Mack]

Allow them to take spell versions of the Elemental Fusionist's powers in RUE. So instead of picking an Elemental spell, they select a Fusionist one instead.

Isn't that listed as an option listed under the Fusionist?

No, it's not.

[Glistam]

So I started to try and pull this all together. As part of making the new essence fragment spell I went to Dragons & Gods to look at the Elementals and noticed that Greater Elementals also know some Wizard spells! So it occurs to me, why can't those spells be made available to the Warlock, too? In the case of the Fire Warlock, that amounts to: Sense Magic, See Aura, Life Drain, Energy Bolt, Energy Field, Energy Disruption, Life Drain (it's listed twice, lol), and Turn Dead.

[Glistam]

New Level 5 Fire Elemental Spell: Little Inferno.

Little Inferno
Range: Immediate area.
Duration: 30 minutes per level of the warlock.
Saving Throw: None
P.P.E.: Thirty

This spell enables the Warlock to summon and command a fragmented essence from a greater fire elemental. This conflagrant assistant can be sent to scout ahead, spy, hunt, defend, attack, carry items, etcetera. There is no limit to the distance it can travel away from the Warlock.

Little Inferno

• Natural A.R. 11
• Hit points: 70; S.D.C.: 30
• Attribute Equivalents: I.Q. 9, M.A. 3, M.E. 10, P.S. 22, P.P. 19, and speed 30 mph.
• Natural abilities: Made of fire (does 2D6 damage upon contact and has a 70% chance of igniting combustibles), eight feet tall, night vision 600 feet, can see the invisible, infrared, and heat emanations, doesn't fatigue, is impervious to physical attacks, heat, fire, poison and disease, bioregenerate 4D6 S.D.C per melee round, and the Little Inferno can carry up to 1100 pounds and still moves at its maximum speed! Obeys the warlock only. Cold and Water based attacks, spells and psionics do double damage.
• Bonuses: +4 on initiative, +6 to strike, +2 to parry and dodge. Three attacks/actions per melee round and inflicts 3D6 damage from punch or 6D6 from a power punch (counts as two attacks), plus P.S. and fire damage.
• Can cast all level 1-3 fire elemental magic; 100 P.P.E. It will remain in this world until the spell's duration elapses or it is sent back by the warlock, whichever comes first.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I just had a thought while considering following G's example of construction a new spell from whole cloth. That since the fire warlock spells are mostly temperature manipulation spells. That the Cold based spell in the Library of Bethariad book might be prime candidates for adding to the fire elemental spells list.

I tend to allow Warlocks to have access to any spell that has an elemental affinity for their element.
Thus Fire Warlocks have access to any spell that relates to fire/heat
Air Warlocks have access to all spells that relate to air/electricity/gasses
Water Warlocks get all spells that affect water/liquids
Earth Warlocks get all spells that affect earth/rock/dirt

I also am pretty liberal in allowing the player of a Warlock to try and justify why a spell should be allowed. If they can make the case to me that a spell should be allowed then I will add it to the house rules list for all future warlocks.

As a good house rule I agree with Eli.

[Glistam]

Four new Level 2 Spells, one for each element

Aegis of Ice
Range: Touch
Duration: 5 minutes per level of the warlock.
P.P.E.: 8

Aegis of Ice wraps the recipient in the protective embrace of the element of Water. This provides the recipient a glowing aura of 5 S.D.C. per level of the Warlock. There is no A.R. associated with this spell. While active, the recipient glows slightly blue and takes double damage from attacks of the opposing element (Fire). If an attack depletes the S.D.C. of this aura the spell ends in a brief flash of blue light and no further damage from that attack carries over to the recipient.

Aegis of Flame
Range: Touch
Duration: 5 minutes per level of the warlock.
P.P.E.: 8

Aegis of Flame wraps the recipient in the protective embrace of the element of Fire. This provides the recipient a glowing aura of 5 S.D.C. per level of the Warlock. There is no A.R. associated with this spell. While active, the recipient glows slightly red and takes double damage from attacks of the opposing element (Water). If an attack depletes the S.D.C. of this aura the spell ends in a brief flash of red light and no further damage from that attack carries over to the recipient.

Aegis of Wind
Range: Touch
Duration: 5 minutes per level of the warlock.
P.P.E.: 8

Aegis of Wind wraps the recipient in the protective embrace of the element of Air. This provides the recipient a glowing aura of 5 S.D.C. per level of the Warlock. There is no A.R. associated with this spell. While active, the recipient glows slightly white and takes double damage from attacks of the opposing element (Earth). If an attack depletes the S.D.C. of this aura the spell ends in a brief flash of white light and no further damage from that attack carries over to the recipient.

Aegis of Stone
Range: Touch
Duration: 5 minutes per level of the warlock.
P.P.E.: 8

Aegis of Stone wraps the recipient in the protective embrace of the element of Earth. This provides the recipient a glowing aura of 5 S.D.C. per level of the Warlock. There is no A.R. associated with this spell. While active, the recipient glows slightly green and takes double damage from attacks of the opposing element (Air). If an attack depletes the S.D.C. of this aura the spell ends in a brief flash of green light and no further damage from that attack carries over to the recipient.

[Glistam]

I feel like there's a number of Fire Element spells which deal with smoke, that not taking advantage of that for a Fire Elemental is a great missed opportunity. In that vein, here's another summon that's almost exactly identical to the Leaf Rustler from the Air Element spell list:

Smoke Monster
Level: 4
Range: Immediate area.
Duration: 30 minutes.
Saving Throw: None
P.P.E.: Fifteen

Through this spell the warlock is able to summon and command a simple, mischievous, fire elemental essence fragment as a cloud of smoke. This fire elemental fragment can be assigned an area or told to follow a particular person or group and make noise, knock over objects, slam doors, tap, thump, blow out candles, frighten and terrify, etc.

• Natural A.R. 10
• Hit Points: 20 ; S.D.C.: 10
• Things of Note: Prowl: 80%, H.F. 14, three feet tall, P.S. 4, P.P. 6, flying speed of 20 mph, +4 to dodge, and two melee attacks/ actions per round. Only inflicts 1D4 damage from attacks.

The smoke monster is too puny to steal any item weighing more than three pounds and is too dumb to spy/gather intelligence or follow complicated orders. It will remain in this world until the spell's duration ends or the warlock sends it back, whichever comes first.

[Glistam]

Well, the G.M. did NOT like those Aegis spells, and instead turned them into Armor of Ithan clones that only have 75 S.D.C. and +5 S.D.C. per level. Personally I am deeply disappointed. We did have a productive conversation though regarding the other spells which I could bring in. I'm especially pleased that we brought in a version of Ballistic fire with the same range as the Fire Warlock Fireball, but it's 1D6 missile/level damage can be split as the caster chooses amongst 2 targets, plus an extra target every 5 levels. One strike roll encompasses the entire volley. P.P.E. cost was lowered appropriate too, to 15. I felt that was a fair compromise.

As I get the edits made to my files I will probably put the updated spells in the New Spell topic. Except for the Aegis spells, which I will put in there as I wrote and not as lame AoI clones.