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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:54 am
  

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Wanderer

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2001 1:01 am
Posts: 53
Location: Petaluma, CA, USA
Greetings all.

For a long time I have been looking the rules for Techno-wizard construction rules (both RAW and RUE), and by extension Gizmoteering (RUE really can apply to both, just grant the Gizmo the ability to replace gem carrat value in electronics and tech of equivalent value alternative, if they don't want to use relovent gems). This consideration has left me mostly liking the RUE rule set and its versitility for both, however, I am stuck with a problem:

By what guidelines would someone assign the "Device level"?

Take for instance applying DL for items where the "Primary" spell gives effect by character /device level: no real brainer, just assign the creater level or drop it lower level to make it easier to make. But, is there a minimum level that would be required? Not many fools would waste making an Armor Mod: Armor of Ithan lvl1. pretty well pointless. A more powerful spell, like Strength of the Whale, the only effect of DL is on the Duration, so it's a better candidate for a level 1 budget crunch build. But would this qualify as needing "minimum level?"

And then you start looking at the weapons. The TK-revolver is IL 3, while most of the others are IL 5, but how was that determined? In "reverse engineering" a weapon (i.e. TW TK-38 Endless) would one that only does SDC be a DL 0f 1,2 or 3? Or the energy weapon conversions? The basic "bread abd butter" conversions of RUE, now no longer even mentioned, except a blurb about your master handing you a "converted" E-clip (love the idea, but again, depending on the spell set, what might that DL be?).


I'm hoping you guys will see where I'm going with this line of thinking. I'm not looking for absolutes here. This entire upgraded system just speaks of "figure stuff out." Still I'd like some input from how some of you have solved some of these issues, cause frankly if there is a pattern among the "stock designs" in the RUE main book, I must be coming up blind. Since a large portion of the fun with TW's (at least for me) is coming up with the most inreal yet viable stuff, it just kills me that a level 1 TW or (updated) Gizmoteer can't even make any of the iconic weapons and tools till they've been played long enough to have had a couple of adventures. Even more, may not be able to do more than convert simple batteries, let alone do weapon or vehicle conversions, which in RAW were the simplest (mostly) things the Techno-Wizard could do.

So, thoughts? Suggestions? Random ramblings?

btw, thanks to all in advance.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:22 pm
  

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Supreme Being

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:01 am
Posts: 9940
Location: Communing with the Keepers of the Desert
Comment: This space for rent.
You're correct in that there isn't really a pattern in the RUE examples. For that matter, some of the RUE examples have math errors in them.

As for Device Level, yes, it's largely left up to the GM to "figure it out." Some spells are ripe for abuse. I once came up with a Resurrection "tanning bed" device that cost only 5k to build and had a ridiculously low Activation Cost. While it's a high level spell, it's just as effective at Device Level 1... this is where a GM should step in and place a limit.

(Regarding the TK-38 Endless, keep in mind that it was published prior to RUE, so it doesn't follow the RUE TW creation rules at all.)

My personal rule of thumb is that if the resulting TW device feels unbalanced or too powerful, then I change it or abandon it.

Generally, I don't make TW versions of spells that level 10 or higher. There's a bit of fluff text scattered around various books that speak to guilds jealously protecting high level spells. I figure they wouldn't take too kindly to a TW who distributes high level TW items. Not to mention that the TW would have to acquire and learn the spell first.

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It's Rifts. It doesn't have to make sense.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:01 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Posts: 5954
Location: WI
Quote:
By what guidelines would someone assign the "Device level"?

Per RUE pg133 "This may be lowered to make the device faster and easier to build, but may not be increased beyond the level of the Techno-Wizard".

If you are asking for how to determine what the Device Level should be... As a general rule I'd go with the primary spell's level (this isn't always the case, but the device should then have some short comings as compared to if it was at that level), but also consider the TW starting spell list. Those spells (even Level2+ ones) they likely know how to work with to TW devices better than ones they pick up later, allowing them to lower the Device Level to 1 if any of those spells are used as the primary in the chain. So you could make a DL1 Flaming Sword (over the listed DL5 with some drawbacks), but you couldn't do the same with the Iceblast Shotgun (listed DL4)


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