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Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:41 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 5:10 pm
Posts: 19
Has anyone created stats for large Sniping/Anti-Material rifles that fire the .50 BMG or larger?
Barrett 82/95/99/107, or the Barrett XM109 25MM, The Thor M408, ChyTac, the Denel NTA-20?

I would be curious on damage and range.

Barrett M107A1
https://barrett.net/firearms/m107a1/

Thor M408A1
https://thorgdg.com/shop/thor-m408a1-ex ... on-system/

ChyTac Intervention
https://cheytac.com/product/m200-intervention/

Barrett XM109
https://www.strategypage.com/military_p ... 81522.aspx

Denel NTW-20
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denel_NTW-20


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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:44 am
  

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Hero

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:46 am
Posts: 1536
Location: SDF-1, Macross Island
For .50 cal damage you can just adjust off the M2 in the standard book: 5d10+15 for ball ammo to 800m
20mm gives you 5d10+15 to 1000m for HE?
30mm is 6d10+20 to 3355m for HE?

That is all from the Deluxe Recon book to cover late 60's to early 80's stuff.

Modern ammo is going to give you a wide variety of ammo effects (bonuses to accuracy, range or damage) for .50 cal [excerpted from Wikipedia]:
Cartridge, caliber .50, tracer, M1
tracer for observing fire, signaling, target designation, and incendiary purposes. This bullet has a red tip.
Cartridge, caliber .50, incendiary, M1
this cartridge is used against unarmored, flammable targets. The incendiary bullet has a light blue tip
Cartridge, caliber .50, ball, M2
this cartridge is used against personnel and unarmored targets. This bullet has an unpainted tip.
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor piercing, M2
this cartridge is used against lightly armored vehicles, protective shelters, and personnel, and can be identified by its black tip
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor-piercing incendiary, M8
this cartridge is used, in place of the armor-piercing round, against armored, flammable targets. The bullet has a silver tip.
Cartridge, caliber .50, tracer, M10
tracer for observing fire, signaling, target designation, and incendiary purposes. Designed to be less intense than the M1 tracer, the M10 has an orange tip.
Cartridge, caliber .50, tracer, M17
tracer for observing fire, signaling, target designation, and incendiary purposes. Can be fired from the M82/M107 series of rifles.
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor-piercing incendiary tracer, M20
this cartridge is used, in place of the armor-piercing round, against armored, flammable targets, with a tracer element for observation purposes. This cartridge is effectively a variant of the M8 armor-piercing incendiary with the added tracer element. Can be fired from the M82/M107 series of rifles. This bullet has a red tip with a ring of aluminum paint.
Cartridge, caliber .50, tracer, headlight, M21
tracer for use in observing fire during air-to-air combat. Designed to be more visible, the M21 is three times more brilliant than the M1 tracer.
Cartridge, caliber .50, incendiary, M23
This cartridge is used against unarmored, flammable targets. The tip of the bullet is painted blue with a light blue ring.
Cartridge, caliber .50, ball, M33
this cartridge is used against personnel and unarmored targets. Can be fired from the M82/M107 series of rifles.
Cartridge, caliber .50, Saboted light armor penetrator, M903
this cartridge has a 355 – 360 gr (23.00 – 23.33 g) heavy metal (tungsten) penetrator that is sabot-launched at a muzzle velocity of 4,000 ft/s (1,219 m/s). The 0.50 in (12.7 mm) diameter sabot is designed to separate after leaving the muzzle, releasing the 0.30 (7.62 mm) penetrator. It is injection molded of special high strength plastic and is reinforced with an aluminum insert in the base section. The cartridge is identified by an amber sabot (Ultem 1000). For use only in the M2 series of machine guns. This round can penetrate 19 mm of steel armor at 1,500 yards (1,400 m).[11]
Cartridge, caliber .50, saboted light armor penetrator tracer, M962
like the M903, this is a SLAP round, with the only difference being that the M962 also has a tracer element for observing fire, target designation, and incendiary purposes. It has a red plastic sabot for identification, and is used only in the M2 series of machine guns.
Cartridge, caliber .50, ball, XM1022
a long-range match cartridge specifically designed for long-range work using the M107 rifle
Cartridge, caliber .50, M1022 long-range sniper
The .50 caliber M1022 has an olive green bullet coating with no tip ID coloration. The projectile is of standard ball design. It is designed for long-range sniper training and tactical use against targets that do not require armor-piercing or incendiary effects. It exhibits superior long range accuracy and is trajectory matched to MK211 grade A. The M1022 is ideal for use in all .50 caliber bolt-action and semi-automatic sniper rifles.[12] The bullet remains supersonic out to from 1,500 m (1,640 yd) to 1,600 m (1,750 yd).[13]
Cartridge, caliber .50, high-explosive armor-piercing incendiary (HEIAP), Mk 211 Mod 0
a "combined effects" cartridge, the Mk 211 Mod 0 HEIAP cartridge contains a .30 caliber tungsten penetrator, zirconium powder, and Composition A explosive. It can be used in any .50 caliber weapon in the US inventory with the exception of the M85 machine gun. The cartridge is identified by a green tip with a gray ring.
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor-piercing incendiary dim tracer (API-DT), Mk 257
the .50 caliber Mk 257 API-DT has a purple bullet tip. The bullet has a hardened steel core and incendiary tip. It is used in the M2, M3, and M85. Dim trace reduces the possibility of the weapon being located during night fire and is visible only with night-vision devices.[12]
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor-piercing (AP), Mk 263 Mod 2
the .50 caliber Mk 265 has a black tip. The bullet has a hardened steel core. It is used in the M2, M3, and M85.
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor-piercing incendiary tracer (API-T), Mk 300 Mod 0
as with the Mk 211 Mod 0, but with a tracer component. This cartridge likely can be used in any .50 caliber weapon in the US inventory with the exception of the M85 machine gun, as with the Mk 211 Mod 0.
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor piercing explosive incendiary (APEI), Mk 169 Mod 2
this cartridge is used against hardened targets such as bunkers, for suppressive fire against lightly armored vehicles, and ground and aerial threat suppression. It is generally fired either from pilot-aimed aircraft-mounted guns or anti-aircraft platforms, both produced by FN Herstal.[14] It is identified by a gray over yellow tip.[15] A tracer variant of it also exists.
Cartridge, caliber .50, ball, Mk 323 Mod 0
created by the Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane Division, this cartridge uses M33 ball projectiles in polymer cases instead of brass. It has a clear polymer case, with a standard brass head fused at the bottom. The Mk 323 can be fired from M2HB/M2A1 machine guns and GAU-21/A aircraft guns with the same performance. It gives a 25 percent weight savings over brass-cased ammunition and allows 40 percent more ammunition to be carried for the same weight. The Mk 323's polymer casing is applied to tracer, AP, API, and SLAP projectiles.[16][17]

With regard to larger caliber weapons, we have some new ammo types that were not really available in the 80's such as:
FAPDS: Frangible Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot. The round breaks up upon impact with soft and hard targets. On the one hand, the projectile’s lethality is due to its penetrating power; on the other, to the effects of fragmentation. Consisting of a tungsten heavy metal alloy.
PELE: Penetrator with Enhanced Lateral Effect.
Crucial to its success is the specially engineered projectile, which combines two materials with different levels of density. Containing neither a fuse nor explosives, the round’s lethality derives from its high penetrating power coupled with fragmentation, blast and incendiary effects.
P-ABM: Programmable Air Burst
MP: Multi Purpose

As for the exact stats for each of the weapons you mentioned, most of it can be taken right from the manufacturers catalog (range, mass, etc.).

For optics you can get all sorts of mounted goodies like thermals, IR, lasers, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

-STS

_________________
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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:16 am
  

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Monk

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
Posts: 13032
Location: Snoqualmie, WA
slade the sniper wrote:
For .50 cal damage you can just adjust off the M2 in the standard book: 5d10+15 for ball ammo to 800m
20mm gives you 5d10+15 to 1000m for HE?
30mm is 6d10+20 to 3355m for HE?

That is all from the Deluxe Recon book to cover late 60's to early 80's stuff.

Modern ammo is going to give you a wide variety of ammo effects (bonuses to accuracy, range or damage) for .50 cal [excerpted from Wikipedia]:
Cartridge, caliber .50, tracer, M1
tracer for observing fire, signaling, target designation, and incendiary purposes. This bullet has a red tip.
Cartridge, caliber .50, incendiary, M1
this cartridge is used against unarmored, flammable targets. The incendiary bullet has a light blue tip
Cartridge, caliber .50, ball, M2
this cartridge is used against personnel and unarmored targets. This bullet has an unpainted tip.
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor piercing, M2
this cartridge is used against lightly armored vehicles, protective shelters, and personnel, and can be identified by its black tip
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor-piercing incendiary, M8
this cartridge is used, in place of the armor-piercing round, against armored, flammable targets. The bullet has a silver tip.
Cartridge, caliber .50, tracer, M10
tracer for observing fire, signaling, target designation, and incendiary purposes. Designed to be less intense than the M1 tracer, the M10 has an orange tip.
Cartridge, caliber .50, tracer, M17
tracer for observing fire, signaling, target designation, and incendiary purposes. Can be fired from the M82/M107 series of rifles.
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor-piercing incendiary tracer, M20
this cartridge is used, in place of the armor-piercing round, against armored, flammable targets, with a tracer element for observation purposes. This cartridge is effectively a variant of the M8 armor-piercing incendiary with the added tracer element. Can be fired from the M82/M107 series of rifles. This bullet has a red tip with a ring of aluminum paint.
Cartridge, caliber .50, tracer, headlight, M21
tracer for use in observing fire during air-to-air combat. Designed to be more visible, the M21 is three times more brilliant than the M1 tracer.
Cartridge, caliber .50, incendiary, M23
This cartridge is used against unarmored, flammable targets. The tip of the bullet is painted blue with a light blue ring.
Cartridge, caliber .50, ball, M33
this cartridge is used against personnel and unarmored targets. Can be fired from the M82/M107 series of rifles.
Cartridge, caliber .50, Saboted light armor penetrator, M903
this cartridge has a 355 – 360 gr (23.00 – 23.33 g) heavy metal (tungsten) penetrator that is sabot-launched at a muzzle velocity of 4,000 ft/s (1,219 m/s). The 0.50 in (12.7 mm) diameter sabot is designed to separate after leaving the muzzle, releasing the 0.30 (7.62 mm) penetrator. It is injection molded of special high strength plastic and is reinforced with an aluminum insert in the base section. The cartridge is identified by an amber sabot (Ultem 1000). For use only in the M2 series of machine guns. This round can penetrate 19 mm of steel armor at 1,500 yards (1,400 m).[11]
Cartridge, caliber .50, saboted light armor penetrator tracer, M962
like the M903, this is a SLAP round, with the only difference being that the M962 also has a tracer element for observing fire, target designation, and incendiary purposes. It has a red plastic sabot for identification, and is used only in the M2 series of machine guns.
Cartridge, caliber .50, ball, XM1022
a long-range match cartridge specifically designed for long-range work using the M107 rifle
Cartridge, caliber .50, M1022 long-range sniper
The .50 caliber M1022 has an olive green bullet coating with no tip ID coloration. The projectile is of standard ball design. It is designed for long-range sniper training and tactical use against targets that do not require armor-piercing or incendiary effects. It exhibits superior long range accuracy and is trajectory matched to MK211 grade A. The M1022 is ideal for use in all .50 caliber bolt-action and semi-automatic sniper rifles.[12] The bullet remains supersonic out to from 1,500 m (1,640 yd) to 1,600 m (1,750 yd).[13]
Cartridge, caliber .50, high-explosive armor-piercing incendiary (HEIAP), Mk 211 Mod 0
a "combined effects" cartridge, the Mk 211 Mod 0 HEIAP cartridge contains a .30 caliber tungsten penetrator, zirconium powder, and Composition A explosive. It can be used in any .50 caliber weapon in the US inventory with the exception of the M85 machine gun. The cartridge is identified by a green tip with a gray ring.
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor-piercing incendiary dim tracer (API-DT), Mk 257
the .50 caliber Mk 257 API-DT has a purple bullet tip. The bullet has a hardened steel core and incendiary tip. It is used in the M2, M3, and M85. Dim trace reduces the possibility of the weapon being located during night fire and is visible only with night-vision devices.[12]
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor-piercing (AP), Mk 263 Mod 2
the .50 caliber Mk 265 has a black tip. The bullet has a hardened steel core. It is used in the M2, M3, and M85.
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor-piercing incendiary tracer (API-T), Mk 300 Mod 0
as with the Mk 211 Mod 0, but with a tracer component. This cartridge likely can be used in any .50 caliber weapon in the US inventory with the exception of the M85 machine gun, as with the Mk 211 Mod 0.
Cartridge, caliber .50, armor piercing explosive incendiary (APEI), Mk 169 Mod 2
this cartridge is used against hardened targets such as bunkers, for suppressive fire against lightly armored vehicles, and ground and aerial threat suppression. It is generally fired either from pilot-aimed aircraft-mounted guns or anti-aircraft platforms, both produced by FN Herstal.[14] It is identified by a gray over yellow tip.[15] A tracer variant of it also exists.
Cartridge, caliber .50, ball, Mk 323 Mod 0
created by the Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane Division, this cartridge uses M33 ball projectiles in polymer cases instead of brass. It has a clear polymer case, with a standard brass head fused at the bottom. The Mk 323 can be fired from M2HB/M2A1 machine guns and GAU-21/A aircraft guns with the same performance. It gives a 25 percent weight savings over brass-cased ammunition and allows 40 percent more ammunition to be carried for the same weight. The Mk 323's polymer casing is applied to tracer, AP, API, and SLAP projectiles.[16][17]

With regard to larger caliber weapons, we have some new ammo types that were not really available in the 80's such as:
FAPDS: Frangible Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot. The round breaks up upon impact with soft and hard targets. On the one hand, the projectile’s lethality is due to its penetrating power; on the other, to the effects of fragmentation. Consisting of a tungsten heavy metal alloy.
PELE: Penetrator with Enhanced Lateral Effect.
Crucial to its success is the specially engineered projectile, which combines two materials with different levels of density. Containing neither a fuse nor explosives, the round’s lethality derives from its high penetrating power coupled with fragmentation, blast and incendiary effects.
P-ABM: Programmable Air Burst
MP: Multi Purpose

As for the exact stats for each of the weapons you mentioned, most of it can be taken right from the manufacturers catalog (range, mass, etc.).

For optics you can get all sorts of mounted goodies like thermals, IR, lasers, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

-STS


Slade... your such a liar. That's at least $.50. ;)

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Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:58 am
  

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Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
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Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
I just made a slightly modified list of rounds by damage (base list was taken from Kitsune's site and added too)

https://worldofjaymz.wikia.com/wiki/Mod ... d_Missiles

As for range etc I use the real world specs on the individual weapon and just give it the base damage for the round.

I AM toying with something a bit more detailed in regards to marginally higher or lower damage taking into account each weapons muzzle velocity but that is a bit of minutae that is really out of place in palladium generally speaking.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:15 am
  

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Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:23 am
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Comment: "I will not be silenced. I will not submit. I will find the truth and shout it to the world. "
jaymz wrote:
I just made a slightly modified list of rounds by damage (base list was taken from Kitsune's site and added too)

https://worldofjaymz.wikia.com/wiki/Mod ... d_Missiles

As for range etc I use the real world specs on the individual weapon and just give it the base damage for the round.

I AM toying with something a bit more detailed in regards to marginally higher or lower damage taking into account each weapons muzzle velocity but that is a bit of minutae that is really out of place in palladium generally speaking.

Thanks for this Jaymz, it's a good starting place for some of the Heroes Unlimited stuff I wanted to do.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:54 am
  

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Adventurer

Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 12:20 am
Posts: 404
Location: Las Vegas, NV
jaymz wrote:
I just made a slightly modified list of rounds by damage (base list was taken from Kitsune's site and added too)

https://worldofjaymz.wikia.com/wiki/Mod ... d_Missiles

As for range etc I use the real world specs on the individual weapon and just give it the base damage for the round.

I AM toying with something a bit more detailed in regards to marginally higher or lower damage taking into account each weapons muzzle velocity but that is a bit of minutae that is really out of place in palladium generally speaking.

You may already aware of this, but keep in mind that although many of the weapons featured in Palladium books show muzzle velocities, those are completely and totally arbitrary numbers. They mean nothing. At all. Yes, the weapon's rifling twist rate and its barrel length matter, and those are steady factors with the firearm. BUT, the other component that can't be controlled by the firearm is the ammunition used. There are so, so many different manufacturers, brands and even subsets of particular brands, that the choices nowadays for ammunition are virtually endless (especially with the more common calibers). In other words, the muzzle velocity will change dramatically based on the ammo you feed the weapon. If there was only ONE kind of ammunition available across the board (which there never will be), then those numbers would mean something. But of course, there are endless choices out there.

To give an example, here's a handy website that shows the differing muzzle velocities of various rounds shot through the different length barrels:

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html

You ought to take a peek at it and see how much difference there is between the different brands of rounds. It's pretty amazing! Check this out:

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

Look at the 9mm pistol with a 4 inch barrel, for example. That's a common caliber and length for a duty weapon. Those figures set the baseline. Depending on the ammo used, the lowest velocity is 951 feet per second and the highest velocity is 1,444 feet per second. That's a difference of almost 500 feet per second and only 10 different kinds of ammo were tested!

I don't know why some manufacturers list muzzle velocities alongside other stats for their weapons but don't include the word "average." They know full well that the ammo put through the weapon will (not can or may, but WILL) change that number. I'd be good with the word "average" there to serve as a bit of a disclaimer and provide some wiggle room. Anyway... hope this helps.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:10 am
  

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Supreme Being

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Comment: Being a moderator doesn't mean I speak for Palladium Books. It just makes me the lifeguard at their pool.
Also, if you change the weight of the bullet, the amount of powder behind it or the type of powder behind it, you radically change the performance of the round.

Just using the diameter of the bullet is meaningless. .380 ACP, .38 Special, 9mm Parabellum and .357 magnum all fire bullets 9mm in diameter, but have radically different capabilities.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:20 am
  

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Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 12753
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
I think my above list does differentiate between some rounds within a round type. Also I always used the damage as the basis being a standard quality round where better or lesser would adjust lightly higher or lower. Same with other factors. As puzzle velocity I dont used palladiums numbers i look up actual specs.

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I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, AIM - icesith1, MSN Messenger - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, ICQ - 127915633, Yahoo Messenger - demonjames666, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

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