Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

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mrloucifer
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Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

Hey gang, as most of the follwoers know, I've been working on a "ghost story" soucrebook for BTS-2 for some time now after talking to Kevin about it.

Ive got a lot of sections planned (and some written or partially written) like a section devoted to ghost hunting in the BTS world and the tools and techniqued used, some new supernatural entities and energy beings that can/are confused as ghosts or are directly involved with them, some notes for the parapsychologist, psychic medium and sensitive classes and others.

But soon I'm going to dive into the most sensitive part of the book... stats and info concerning THE human spirit itself, something Ive not seen much of in the Palladium universe (I hear there some in the Madhaven book but I've never picked it up and may do so.) One of the themes I've got for the after life is going into the theory that death is an personal to a person as their life was and therefore it can be different for each spirit. Its a daunting task to do, but I think I'm up to the task.

But what I'm asking for here is your thoughts and experiences for those who have used ghosts in their games... such as what worked best and what your players enjoyed and so on. Ive been playtesting things as I create them, but for something this unique and personal I imagine that there is a LOT more avenues I may have overlooked and if so look into to adding it all in while I'm writing it up.

So please share people! :)
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by vika »

In the ghost-heavy game we make a lot of the research - spent much of the time talking to NPCs which was awesome for our group...because we basically sit around and talk ******** and we love to make it. In actual ghost stories the ghost will vanish when the living approach or get the attention and the question of what is happening there remains unanswered. In our game this is the case unless the ghost can be contacted by the medium or by the psychic in the Astral plane (where most of the ghost spends its existence). Other times in actual ghost stories, the ghost will make contact. It is so in our games, too. If the ghost will make contact, then the PCs learn what must they make for to free the ghost. Some times it is the very difficult task. "Tell mom I loved her," but mom died 250 years ago. So the medium tries to make the contact with the mom. Our playstyle is that the investigator loses a lot maybe more than he wins, and Sasha is very happy to deliver the frustration. It is a kind of Poe-noir thing, I think.
EDIT: Fix some confusing wording.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Lord Z »

I interpreted the Haunting Entities and limitations of the Spirit Guides as Kevin's way of dodging the entire issue of an afterlife. It seemed to me that there was an unofficial Palladium Books policy of avoiding any mention of an afterlife. If Kevin hasn't mentioned any such problem, then perhaps this unofficial policy has been reversed. The fact that versions of an afterlife were mentioned in Rifters #47 and #46 supports this.

That is why I took the Soul Fragment route. Soul Fragments are tiny pieces of dead people, leaving the bulk of the soul to go off to realms unknown. Thus, the policy of avoiding afterlife discussion isn't broken. Take a gander at the True Ghost R.C.C. in the Court of Tarot errata. I think I also put in in the New Critters thread.

Unfortunately, nothing has been playtested. My gaming group hasn't been interested in doing anything but generic D&D for almost two years now. I got a group of players together for a play by post playtest, but we only got half-way through one adventure before three of my five players dropped out and I declared the game dead. If anyone would like to meet me online some Tuesday or Wednesday for some real playtesting?

Vika's method seems like fun.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by vika »

I am 9 or 10 hours difference from you Lord Z but maybe it will still be possible to meet for the playtest. What time you have in mind? This information will help me to know if I will be available.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Lord Z »

Okay, I am Eastern Standard U.S. (New York & Miami) time. My days off are Tuesday & Wednesday, so I am available just about all of the time day & night these days. I should mention that during the day, I get my internet connection from the local library, so no VOIP for me. Anyone else?
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by jade von delioch »

Check out any movie made in Japan and Hong kong for inspiration. They know how to do ghost right.

I never liked Palladium's ghost all that much. It just didn't feel right when all the entities were pretty much supernatural creatures from somewhere else in disguise of human spirits. Seemed a little lacking. So i want to see some actual human ghosts. I think a powerful ancestral spirit would be pretty scary, especially if tied to a family curse. Then somethings like nature spirits: like ones that would have been called coyote by the native americans, or would have been worshiped in Africa for bring the rain seasons and such. Actually, if you can find a copy- check out the old game "Chill", they did a lot of good research for that game that could help spark some ideas.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

jade von delioch wrote:Check out any movie made in Japan and Hong kong for inspiration. They know how to do ghost right.

I never liked Palladium's ghost all that much. It just didn't feel right when all the entities were pretty much supernatural creatures from somewhere else in disguise of human spirits. Seemed a little lacking. So i want to see some actual human ghosts. I think a powerful ancestral spirit would be pretty scary, especially if tied to a family curse. Then somethings like nature spirits: like ones that would have been called coyote by the native americans, or would have been worshiped in Africa for bring the rain seasons and such. Actually, if you can find a copy- check out the old game "Chill", they did a lot of good research for that game that could help spark some ideas.


While I agree that the Palladium ghost seem a little lacking, I cant say I dont like them. If anything, they act a lot like the traditional ghost; in fact I have a writ up by a parapsychologist discussing something along the lines of "The Haunting Entity is not the human soul/spirit... but it may as well be."
That being said, what the entities of the palladium world need are more explanation (without ruining the feeling of mystery that makes ghosts fun and interesting) and more GM/player advice help on how to maximize the effect of a supernatural entities/spirits vs. going the human soul/spirirt route.

I expect this next part will either catch peoples interest or upset them, but one of the directions I plan to look into is the idea that the human sole may actually be supernatural itself in nature. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, but I also ask that you role with me on this one as I'll have a very lengthy thesis like explanation on this. But really, its not a hard stretch of imagination when you think about it.

Another big gorilla in the room I'll need to tackle is the personal aspect of a human spirit. Death and the after life for everyone in this world is a unique and personal experience for everyone is a reoccouring theme I'm working with. This means that human spirits CANNOT be cannonized or fully explained. Each spirit has a personal reason as to why they cant/wont find their rest and this ties into what kind of abilites, attributes, methods of haunting and communication and so on.

As you can imagine, this is a REALLY hard write up and its been a slow process for me. I'm really trying to get this right while making it fun and interesting.

As far as looking into other books, I've tried to stay away from other rpg games. I really dont wanna start copying other games and pasting palladium conversion rules on them. The lasat thing I want is someone to say "Golly... these Palladium ghosts seem a lot like WOD ghosts."

And while there are bound to be similarities to other books, I hope that my vision and experience on the subject (as both a life long ghost story fan and a ghost hunter) will offer new thoughts, theories and ideas on what the human spirit may be and how they thrive in the BTS world.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by bradshaw »

jade von delioch wrote:Check out any movie made in Japan and Hong kong for inspiration. They know how to do ghost right.

I never liked Palladium's ghost all that much. It just didn't feel right when all the entities were pretty much supernatural creatures from somewhere else in disguise of human spirits. Seemed a little lacking. So i want to see some actual human ghosts. I think a powerful ancestral spirit would be pretty scary, especially if tied to a family curse. Then somethings like nature spirits: like ones that would have been called coyote by the native americans, or would have been worshiped in Africa for bring the rain seasons and such. Actually, if you can find a copy- check out the old game "Chill", they did a lot of good research for that game that could help spark some ideas.

Japan and Hong Kong Know ghosts right? You clearly have not seen Casper or Ghost Dad. :P
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by jade von delioch »

lol, funny..


mrloucifer:

I can understand where you are coming from. I have been building a system of my own for the past couple of years and will have it published next year. and in this game i had to work on Ghost and spirits. What i focused on, and this may help you, is the type of emotion that they retained when they died. Like if a person who died was disappointed, confused, angry because they were left in a well and thought someone was coming back for them- but instead they were left there for months (until they died). So these same emotions would mark their spirit and may even be the reason for them being stuck here in the world.
That brings up another thing that palladium does not address. In several cultures it is believed that if you can help the spirit that has unfinished business finish their business they will go on to the next world or some such thing.It would be interesting to see some spirirts for the game like this to force the players to think and use their heads instead of just zapping the ghost with their EKG guns.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

jade von delioch wrote: I can understand where you are coming from. I have been building a system of my own for the past couple of years and will have it published next year. and in this game i had to work on Ghost and spirits. What i focused on, and this may help you, is the type of emotion that they retained when they died. Like if a person who died was disappointed, confused, angry because they were left in a well and thought someone was coming back for them- but instead they were left there for months (until they died). So these same emotions would mark their spirit and may even be the reason for them being stuck here in the world.
That brings up another thing that palladium does not address. In several cultures it is believed that if you can help the spirit that has unfinished business finish their business they will go on to the next world or some such thing.It would be interesting to see some spirirts for the game like this to force the players to think and use their heads instead of just zapping the ghost with their EKG guns.


Thanx for the thoughts. I just so happens I plan to add some sights on their final moments or the way/circumstances of which they died can be a strong enough anchor to keep their spirit grounded. Circumstance, people involved, the loaction of their death, the importance of people or locations in their life... its all part and partial of what makes a spirit haunt someone, somewhere or something.

As far as going into the religious angle, I'm not planning on going too far into that game design wise, thats something that's more up to the GM to decide to decide if they wish to include it. Going into the subject of relgion is worthy of its own series of sourcebooks and I'm not quite experienced enough on the subject to even consider writing. :)
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by vika »

Lord Z wrote:Okay, I am Eastern Standard U.S. (New York & Miami) time. My days off are Tuesday & Wednesday, so I am available just about all of the time day & night these days. I should mention that during the day, I get my internet connection from the local library, so no VOIP for me. Anyone else?
I will only have some access during your daytime on this computer at work. It has very limited access (no IM, most sites on the blocked list, etc). So it remains only play-by-post for me. :(
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Lord Z »

Vika, I'll let you know when another PbP opportunity comes up.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

First off, you flatter me greatly... for I am the creator of the Hoarse Whisperer. While it wasnt designed specifically as a ghost per se (has no interest in the afterlife, only using the dead bodies of their victims), it shares plenty of properties with them. :)

It also sounds like were on a lot of simialar theories and thoughts on how the ghost(s) should be presented in the book.

I have taken into consideration how the psychic medium and sensitive impacts a ghost story and will plan ahead for that. In fact I intend to add a few notes on the limitations of a medium and why a group cant relay solely on them to solve a true ghost story (which is honest and it points out that the rest of the group cant just go auto pilot with the medium tries to sovle things)
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by jade von delioch »

psychic sensitive reminds me of Chip from Paranormal state. He never solves the case, he can only provide information on what they are hunting, which is a way that those PCC should be run.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

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Lord Z wrote:Vika, I'll let you know when another PbP opportunity comes up.
Yay.

I am still the newbie player, so I welcome any opportunity to play.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

jade von delioch wrote:psychic sensitive reminds me of Chip from Paranormal state. He never solves the case, he can only provide information on what they are hunting, which is a way that those PCC should be run.


WURD!
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by vika »

I am confused. Why not solve the case?
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Re: I agree . . .

Unread post by vika »

Petite Elfgirl wrote:
vika wrote:I am confused. Why not solve the case?

Wurd.

I imagine they can solve the case or be an integral part of solving the case, but the boys are just scared or concerned about the sensitives and mediums being the only ones to solve the case, while the rest of the party just stands around and orders food and drinks.
I think that I understand more now. When you need to kick the ghost's ass, you call the night hunter. When you need to talk to the ghost, you call the medium. The medium can say you things like "this and that" but this is not necessarily solving the case. Maybe it is just semantics thing here.
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Re: I agree . . .

Unread post by mrloucifer »

vika wrote:
Petite Elfgirl wrote:
vika wrote:I am confused. Why not solve the case?

Wurd.

I imagine they can solve the case or be an integral part of solving the case, but the boys are just scared or concerned about the sensitives and mediums being the only ones to solve the case, while the rest of the party just stands around and orders food and drinks.
I think that I understand more now. When you need to kick the ghost's ass, you call the night hunter. When you need to talk to the ghost, you call the medium. The medium can say you things like "this and that" but this is not necessarily solving the case. Maybe it is just semantics thing here.


One of the mosr important aspects of RPG's is giving all characters a moment to shine. I am taking that into account in my scribes as I dont want the physical psychics, ordianry humans and other "non-spiritual" related characters feeling useless. In fact, I intend that the medium and sensitives will still have to put in some effort to be useful in a ghost situation. SO everyone will have something to do is my goal.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by vika »

I got you. Previously I was not accurately understanding what did you mean "to solve".
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Lord Z »

Mister Loucifer, you might want to listen to this episode: Ghost Hunter's Survival Guide. I thought the interview was ho-hum, but the author talks a good deal about themes that you are also writing about in your current project.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

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Another selection of ghosts come from a surprising set of books, look at Dinosaur Swamp and Adventures in Dinosaur Swamp. Hear me out, I'm not talking about dino-ghosts! What I'm talking about are the Wraith Soldiers, beings that appear to be ghosts from the Civil War era, and the Haunting Children, 'nuff said. Trust me, there's nothing quite as unnerving in a game than having your PC's deal with disembodied children spirits capable of harming them, or worse, having the players themselves give pause when they DO find a way to harm the child ghost, then hearing them scream as they disappear from their weapons' attacks. I guarantee you, children ghosts freak people out!
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by tmikesecrist3 »

If I was going to do a ghoast, which I might at some point, I would use the mentle states and maybe the ppe.... now actealy what would be more useful to me would be like natcher spirets, the spirets of trees, rocks rivers and montions, if roused can couse intristing things.... ie the battle of the trees...... but I love throwing in folk lore..... and ghosts do not nessarly mean explaining the after life... some ghost hang around after death for many reasions, they dont know there dead, they dont know where to go. or even fear of what awaits them ie the dubuck of jewish demonalagy the soul of a human that belives its actions are so daming that it can not enter into haven
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Rode the six hundred."
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

More great ideas to consider, thank you t-ster!

I have other notes along these lines that I'm holding onto for when I get to the damn thing, and your right, ghosts/spirits do not have to be restricted to the dead... thing of using spirits like people in a coma or dying of cancer or in situations where the closer they are to dying the more "soul/spiritual" being becomes their method of existance. Lots of ideas to ponder. :)
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Lord Z »

The ghost of a coma patient projecting itself from the hospital bed might be pushing the envelope of healthy skepticism required in the BtS-2 setting. If its effects were limited to very subtle stuff, I don't see any problem with it.

I like your concepts for historical-based haunters, Caradoc. Do you have write-ups of these characters that you could cut & paste to here?
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

Lord Z wrote:The ghost of a coma patient projecting itself from the hospital bed might be pushing the envelope of healthy skepticism required in the BtS-2 setting. If its effects were limited to very subtle stuff, I don't see any problem with it.


I hear where your going on this one Z-man, but you can rest easy; my twisted visions would have this example more in line with a supernatural being "bonding" itself to the PPE of the coma patient and hijacking its soul to wreck havoc on the surrounding area.

The "soul" of the living should NEVER be as spiritually powerful as that of those that have left the physical shell it once inhabited. In my plans, its this shedding the physical constraints and getting a step closer to "the other side", that a spirit become more akin to the supernatural, which is how it would acquire/discovers whatever talents/powers it didnt possess (or perhaps was inhibited by) its now dead phyiscal body.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Lord Z »

Okay, death would definitely have a significant affect on a soul. Either the soul would get more or less powerful as a result of experiencing death. Given that choice, yeah, I think that a soul getting more powerful would be the way to go.

So a particular entity could possess the body of coma patient, then? That's darn clever of the entity, actually. Would this be the arch-enemy of the Psychic Healer?
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

Lord Z wrote:Okay, death would definitely have a significant affect on a soul.


To quote the sage like wisdom of Mariah Carey "If you die, you've lost a very important part of your life." :P
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Beatmeclever »

mrloucifer wrote:<Snip>I expect this next part will either catch people's interest or upset them, but one of the directions I plan to look into is the idea that the human soul may actually be supernatural itself in nature. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, but I also ask that you roll with me on this one as I'll have a very lengthy thesis like explanation on this. But really, its not a hard stretch of imagination when you think about it. <Snip>

If we are going to accept the idea of a ghost that is derived from the "soul" of a human (or any being, for that matter,) we must also accept that that soul IS supernatural.

The word supernatural was coined so as to allow philosophers to discuss those events that were outside of the realm of modern philosophy (ie; a soul, God, psychic powers, etc.), before . Even the word - "Supernatural" - means, by literal interpretation, 'beyond nature.' As a soul cannot be found in nature, it MUST be supernatural.

From etymonline.com:
supernatural (adj.)
c.1450 (implied in supernaturally), "above nature, transcending nature, belonging to a higher realm," from M.L. supernaturalis "above or beyond nature," from L. super "above" (see super-) + natura "nature" (see nature). Originally with more of a religious sense; association with ghosts, etc., has predominated since c.1799. The noun is attested from 1587.


From the New American Dictionary
SUPERNATURAL

ADJECTIVE:

Of or relating to existence outside the natural world.
Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces.
Of or relating to a deity.
Of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; miraculous.
Of or relating to the miraculous.
NOUN:

That which is supernatural.


Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural

Hopefully something in all that will help.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Lord Z »

Yeah, but usage of the term in Palladium Books is significantly different than standard meanings. Why do dinosaurs have Supernatural Strength? Supernatural is more a standard of mystic power than a matter of origin.

Come to think of it, the word 'Palladium' is completely differently used in PB than anywhere else.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

Lord Z wrote:Yeah, but usage of the term in Palladium Books is significantly different than standard meanings. Why do dinosaurs have Supernatural Strength? Supernatural is more a standard of mystic power than a matter of origin.

Come to think of it, the word 'Palladium' is completely differently used in PB than anywhere else.


All are valid thoughts, such as the "human soul" being a supernatural being in and of itself (which I think Ive brought up previously in the thread). This is why its going to be such a personal and time consuming process of writing this paticular sourcebook for me. I'd REALLY like to get it right so that it fits how "the real world" see ghosts vs. how the "those who know the truth" see the world. One example being how ofter the average joe thinks he's witnessing ghost activity when its merely poltergeists, etc. The "human spirit" would (is) probrably the rarest type of entity and the most unpredictable and haunting of all entities/spirits.

There are a lot of angles to consider, and as a Paranormal Investigator, lifelong ghost enthusiant and researcher, reader & author of short ghost stories and so on... I'm making this one more of a personal quest to get it right.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

Mephisto wrote:
I'm curious to see if you have a table of contents done up, as there are probably dozens of ghost-like beings out there, including some in canon like Wraiths and Lost Souls, that would be interesting to see included. Possession and Exorcism are also key elements of fighting ghosts, so they would have to be touched on as well.


I have something of a T.O.C. at home, but im still finishing the victims books before I go into this one, so most of what I have are notes waiting to be developed.

However, off the top of my head I plan to tackle the following;

-New ghost, entity & spirit like beings (I unveiled one of them at the last open house and the players involved LOVED it!) including the "Human Spirit". The Human Spirit portion I think will be a bit lengthy to detail the theories of how they exist and why and reasons they might still linger on in our plane of existance and so on.
-Expansions on the Parapsychologist, Medium, Sensitive and other psychics who deal with entitites, spirits,etc.
-A lot of discussion and theory about what people THINK they know about ghosts vs. what the "Lazlo minded folks" know. Example: in the "real world" people think they've got a good grasp on the idea of ghosts and most are willing to believe in them more than any other paranormal subject. But the truth in most cases are way off and much more frightening.
-Notes on using "Paranormal investiators" or "Ghost Hunters" as a front and a way to hunt and combat the supernatural.
-Tools, equipment and methods that can be used to communicate with or combat the "spirit world"
-possibly an example "Ghost Story" scenario or three to use.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

Mephisto wrote:Wow sounds cool. I'd like to see a "Where a Ghost is not a Ghost" scenario as well, when the adventurers learn that the ghost they are seeing is a delusional person, or a spirit or ghostly demon that isn't impressed with exorcisms, talismans and holy water. Just so players with experienced characters don't say "Oh great, another Haunting Entity. I can't be possessed thanks to this chastity belt I'm wearing"


LOL! I plan to include info on this very subject as I've MET these people a few times dduring my ghost hunting days... they're are people you CANNOT talk them out of believing that their home is haunted when you have no reason to think so.

BTW people; in nearly every case, that creaky floor board is just a creaky floor board. I plan to quote this in the sourcebook. :)


As far as buffer entities go, I plan to go into those as well. In fact one of the newer entities I introduced at the open house is one that absorbs samller ones to increase its ability.... kinda like a "big fish eats the smaller ones" mentality.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Lord Z »

That cannibalistic entity has a lot of interesting possibilities. The players might be called upon to rescue one entity from another (like in The Frighteners). Or it could be treated as a video game were smaller entity encounters lead to a confrontation with the big level boss.

Lou, you wanted to know what we thought about souls being inherently supernatural. I have no problem with the concept itself. In fact, it would seem to make sense to me. The implication, however, could get tricky. Whenever you quantify something in a game, you make it vulnerable. If a soul has hit points or an equivalent, it can be killed. Then we have soul-eating monsters. Well, the entire point of a soul is that it's eternal. If it gets eaten, then it wasn't a soul in the first place -- at least that is how I see it. You've probably already thought of this, so please excuse the ramblings.

By the way, did I ever tell you my personal ghost story?
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

Lord Z wrote:Lou, you wanted to know what we thought about souls being inherently supernatural. I have no problem with the concept itself. In fact, it would seem to make sense to me. The implication, however, could get tricky. Whenever you quantify something in a game, you make it vulnerable. If a soul has hit points or an equivalent, it can be killed. Then we have soul-eating monsters. Well, the entire point of a soul is that it's eternal. If it gets eaten, then it wasn't a soul in the first place -- at least that is how I see it. You've probably already thought of this, so please excuse the ramblings.


I love how your fertile and festering mind works Lordy Lord, and fear not... I have thought on this and have a simple solution for it.

There is a "magic theory" coveted by neo-pagans and new age fans alike that belive that there are a couple of different levels of spiritual existance, and I'm taking a few pages from this theory with my own thoughts to use as a good way to explain how "lost souls" and those that refuse to move on are stuck in a "halfway house" sort of existance and until they truly "move on", their soul is not yet in the eternal existance and is there fore vulnerable to astral forces and so on. This theory will also cover those who believe in riencarnation and a few other major beliefs.

Yeah, I've put a LOT of thought into this system. :)
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

Lord Z wrote:
By the way, did I ever tell you my personal ghost story?


Why no!!! DO TELL!!! :-D
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

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A few years back, I was working nights as a ghost tour guide in Saint Augustine, Florida. It's a job I had been doing on and off since the nineties. I tried to offer some stories that other guides did not and change my own tour from time to time so that repeat customers would always have something new to hear. I even told crypotzoology stories before cryptids became cool. I got to know the local haunts fairly well. -- pun intended.

During that entire time, I remained mostly skeptical. Perhaps it is because I am trained as banal computer tech. Perhaps it is because I am just not intuitive. I never saw anything during any of those tours that was remotely ghost-like. There were some interesting photos taken during my tours, but I was never given a copies, so there wasn't anything to study.

Every night, customers would ask me, "Will I see a ghost on this tour?" Yes, that question is every bit as stupid as it sounds, but tourists with too much adrenaline do that sort of thing. I was also commonly asked, "Have you ever seen a ghost?" That's tougher to handle. If I tell the truth, the customer is disappointed and the tour starts badly. If I lie, then it's an obvious lie which cheapens the entire experience. After all, if ghosts were seen on the tour, we wouldn't be charging a measely nine dollars per head. Either way, the emotional experience is taken down several tiers. My typical answer was, "Not with your eyes -- you did bring a camera, didn't you?"

My fiance' at the time was Shannon who also worked as a guide. Shannon was a New Age Witch and very sensitive. I didn't particularly believe in ghosts. I was undecided on the subject of ghosts, but I did believe in people. When Shannon said that she spoke with spirits, then I believed that.

As a birthday present one year, I was given a night's rental at one of the local Bed & Breakfast places, the Saint Francis Inn. Now try to understand the politics of the situation. When television stars come to town hunting for ghosts, they are always steered to the places with the best business connections. The Old Jail didn't have any ghost stories associated with it until the parent company which owns that attraction began marketing its own ghost tour in town. That was probably the first place that T.A.P.S. visited. Us older tour guides know the real places to go for the best chance of experiencing some paranormal activity. The St. Francis Inn is one of those places.

The St. Francis Inn is supposedly haunted by a ghost called Lilly. The story goes that Lilly was a slave girl during the American Civil War. Her master was an officer in the Confederacy. The master's son (or in some versions, his nephew) wooed Lilly. The two youngsters had an affair in her room in the attic of the house. When they were discovered, the son was sent to war and Lilly hanged herself in the attic. There are several variations on the story and even more historical problems, but it's still a favorite story among the guides.

Lilly has developed a reputation for being a mischievous haunter. She has been known for getting into luggage while the guests are away. It usually happens in Lilly's room (which has been renovated into a inn suite). Women have been known to return to their rooms to find jewelry moved -- dropped onto the floor under the a bed or table; or they find that someone has been playing in their makeup. Lilly is also clever, however, and she never falls for tricks when people purposely leave something out to bait her into making an appearance. To my knowledge, she has never been caught on audio recording or camera either.

So Shannon and I went to the Inn one birthday night, and we were staying in Lilly's room. I was also working some long hours as a clerk at a 24 hour pump yourself. Shannon went there first and checked in while I was still working second shift. I had to be back to work for first shift the next morning, so I only had a few hours to spend at the inn. Shannon was very excited about the spirit, and she placed out makeup and other girlish items hoping to attract Lilly. I was only interested in getting a few hours of sleep.

I am a very deep sleeper. I can sleep through alarm clocks or telephone ringers like they were nothing. I once slept through a smoke alarm. During this period, I was in one of my deep sleep phases of life, so I used a clock radio. I can also tune out music, but the noise of conversation will unusually engage my higher brain and slowly bring me around. So I set the room's radio alarm clock to wake us early the next morning, and I set the radio tuner to the local National Public Radio station, 89.9 FM.

Then I went straight to bed. As I lay in bed with Shannon (sorry readers, no nookie occurred), I started thinking about the room. I wondered, "How much did this room cost?" I thought that the place was expensive. This was starting to bother me. I asked Shannon, "Do you know how much my Mom paid for this room?"

Shannon replied that it wasn't very much and named some figure. I was relieved.

As I laid in the dark, I suddenly realized that the voice in my head which asked the question, "How much did this room cost?" had not been my own inner voice. That voice had sounded female. I might have said something, but I fell asleep right then.

I awoke the next morning to the sensation of Shannon striking my side with her elbow. "What is it?" I groaned.

"Turn off that noise," Shannon said.

I rolled over and looked at the radio. Instead of Morning Edition, we were hearing some hard rock station with the volume turned all the way up.

Looking back on the situation now, I can't say for certain what happened. I still haven't seen a ghost. I might have heard one, but I won't commit to it.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

KEEN!!! My first (only) experience was a hearing one as well, I'll write about it and post when I got the time. :)
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Gangrel44 »

That is why I took the Soul Fragment route. Soul Fragments are tiny pieces of dead people, leaving the bulk of the soul to go off to realms unknown. Thus, the policy of avoiding afterlife discussion isn't broken. Take a gander at the True Ghost R.C.C. in the Court of Tarot errata. I think I also put in in the New Critters thread.




If I may ask a question Lord Z...Where can I find the book that has the Court of Tarot errata that has the True Ghost R.C.C.? This has got me a bit interested.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Lord Z »

Go to nexusnine dot net. Look for the errata article on the front page. It should be listed as the most recent ujpdate. It's a pdf that Tenchuu is very generously hosting, and it contains a heap of stuff that I edited out of the Rifter submission. It is errata, so reading the orginal article first would help but is not entirely required.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Gangrel44 »

I just got the Errata and I got to say...very nice work you did
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by krate »

Lord Zee did a great job on that errata. I got that PDF saved with my other gaming PDFs. Good Stuff!
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Lord Z »

Loucifer, what is the title of your manuscript anywa :?: y?
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

Lord Z wrote:Loucifer, what is the title of your manuscript anywa :?: y?


Currently the working title is "Beyond the Paranormal", but I expect that will change.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by krate »

Beyond the Paranormal is a great title. Fits the line.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

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I second what Krate just wrote. "Paranormal" is how the characters within the game world would describe what they do.
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by gaby »

I hope ther will be some npc,s and Adventure scenarios.

Any ideas for them?
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Gangrel44 »

Hey Mr. Lou... How's the development of the book coming along? Any updates?
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by mrloucifer »

This is good time for an update, so here we go! :)

It sits about halfway finished. I've been holding of for a few reasons:

-School eats a lot of my time

-I cant really complete it until the rest of the rules have been detailed in the other two source books

But there is good news to this. Kevin has asked me to help write the next two source books, and he intend of finishing them up later this year. So as we converse and figure it all out, I'll be able to get back to working on the ghost story/sourcebook. :)
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Re: Looking for your thoughts on the ghost sourcebook.

Unread post by Hendrik »

mrloucifer wrote:..there is good news to this. Kevin has asked me to help write the next two source books, and he intend of finishing them up later this year.


YES!!! :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

That's smart and will go a long way to get the book(s) done! I cannot even begin to tell you how much I must have Arcanum in my greedy supernatural hands. :D
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