Inspired by Illithid13

[cornholioprime]

You CAN decide to become a Mage at ANY point, provided you have the requisite Attribute Levels and/or Alignment, etc., where applicable.

I thought taht was cheesing it. Where's the real RPing in making it something that was esy to get?

Uh... You still have to be taught.

I'm just looking at this differently...and yes you have to learn control..But the underlying power is inborn and active...kind of like the poltergiest syndrome around TK talents.

Rimmerdal, PLEASE.

Stop this balderdash before you hurt yourself with it.

Show the rest of us ONE Line/Statement/Paragraph in ALL OF RIFTS that states that Magic Classes are genetic, which is what you are implying.

You keep throwing around "Fuzzy Logic" around like that, and you'll shoot your eye out, kid.........

Man your age just jumped like 30 year from what i thought it was. "balderdash" careful with that language old timer don't let your blood rise.

Hey, my personal level of perspicacity is rather high.

Anachronisms DO tend to slip out every now and again....

[Nekira Sudacne]

Apptitudes can't be 'learned' and are genetic...hence a mage has to be BORN with the potental to learn and sensitve to magic, just like psychics...

You have to have the right genetics to be a mage and since Magical critters share that genetic aspect.

actually he's right.

some races are specifically mentioned that lack any ability to learn any magic. the talent is not present.


ALL humans, however, are born with the potential to learn magic. THAT is stated clearly right under the presut of magic.

[Jesterzzn]

Apptitudes can't be 'learned' and are genetic...hence a mage has to be BORN with the potental to learn and sensitve to magic, just like psychics...

You have to have the right genetics to be a mage and since Magical critters share that genetic aspect.

actually he's right.

some races are specifically mentioned that lack any ability to learn any magic. the talent is not present.


ALL humans, however, are born with the potential to learn magic. THAT is stated clearly right under the presut of magic.

No he is not "right". Read what he is saying.

The claims of Rimmerdal:

1. Practitioners of magic are creatures of magic. FALSE
2. Magic works exactly like psionics. FALSE
3. You must have the Genus Arcanus to be a magic user. W-T-F
4. Magic is more like an "MCC" than a "OCC" and you must roll for magic ability. FALSE

[Rimmerdal]

Some one brought up a few legitmate issues I assumed people would figure out..but again the "simple ideas are always hardest to explain" proves true Also please stop saying anyone can learn magic, there are other races that have no magical talent and cannot be mages...

Quote:
1. Practitioners of magic are creatures of magic. FALSE

I haven't decided that yet..and actually a PCC are considered Psychic..as well NOT all benefits or limits of magical creatures apply to the mage..he only reads as magic creature on the radar.
This give the mage an element of risk that some demon hunter will shoot at him or treat him like a demon or other magic critter.. as they use the same energy source as magical critter..

Quote:
2. Magic works exactly like psionics. FALSE

I agree, That why I am asking how to make them LIKE psychics and not use the rules they do..except that you need to be born with a talent.

I for can try to be michael jordan...But I will never BE as good as him because I lack what it takes to play basketball that well..

Quote:
3. You must have the Genus Arcanus to be a magic user. W-T-F

The genetic code needed to access High levels of PPE..anyone who knows how to do ritual magic can..It's the true spell casters that need the genetic code for magic.

Quote:
4. Magic is more like an "MCC" than a "OCC" and you must roll for magic ability. FALSE

YOur right here to..when you make a PC YOU choose what you want..remember it is optional to roll for Psionics..it's also optional for magic.

This means You want a mage you make a mage..magic gene would apply to NPCs or those that WISH to roll.

THe Magic Gene:

This is a gene that allows mages to handle the excessive energy mages use. It allows the child to develop a stronger nervous system and immune system to compinasate for the stress of magic use..

Also consider:
If one reads the Vamp kingdoms ancient Egyption mages used magic..with the advent of technology they lost it is use in favor of tech. BUT the gene that allowed it is still there it was dormant untill the cataclysm.

And, Jesterzzn, I was unclear on few aspect so I do intend on doing my best to concise...but thanks you helped a lot in spoting inconsistancies I would have over looked.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Apptitudes can't be 'learned' and are genetic...hence a mage has to be BORN with the potental to learn and sensitve to magic, just like psychics...

You have to have the right genetics to be a mage and since Magical critters share that genetic aspect.

actually he's right.

some races are specifically mentioned that lack any ability to learn any magic. the talent is not present.


ALL humans, however, are born with the potential to learn magic. THAT is stated clearly right under the presut of magic.

No he is not "right". Read what he is saying.

The claims of Rimmerdal:

1. Practitioners of magic are creatures of magic. FALSE
2. Magic works exactly like psionics. FALSE
3. You must have the Genus Arcanus to be a magic user. W-T-F
4. Magic is more like an "MCC" than a "OCC" and you must roll for magic ability. FALSE

he's right that you have to be genetically capable of doing it.

he's just wrong on all other points.

[Rimmerdal]

There we go someone caught on..

and as for that magical creature thing they only read as them they actually aren't...I should have been clear there..give the mages a little bit fun dodging hunters and demons...

[cornholioprime]

Apptitudes can't be 'learned' and are genetic...hence a mage has to be BORN with the potental to learn and sensitve to magic, just like psychics...

You have to have the right genetics to be a mage and since Magical critters share that genetic aspect.

actually he's right.

some races are specifically mentioned that lack any ability to learn any magic. the talent is not present.


ALL humans, however, are born with the potential to learn magic. THAT is stated clearly right under the presut of magic.

Actually, Nekira, there are only THREE types of Creatures that specifically are unable to take up a Magic Practitioner O.C.C. in Canon. You'll note that the Restrictions have NOTHING to do with Genetics of any sort.


A]] Those Races whose Attributes (read: NOT Genetics) are insufficient to make up the Requirements of the Magic School/Class/O.C.C. in question.

B]] Those Races or Creatures who have no P.P.E., in the first place, for example the Machine People or the Shemarrians.

C]] Any Race, like the Seljuk, who have found means to block themselves from the Use of Magic for whatever reason.


And may I remind you that Undead, Alien Intelligences, Elementals, and Otherdimensional Beings like Demons and Deevils don't actually HAVE any D.N.A.?

So where, exactly, are you getting this "Genetic Pre-Disposition" Argument from??

[Jesterzzn]

Apptitudes can't be 'learned' and are genetic...hence a mage has to be BORN with the potental to learn and sensitve to magic, just like psychics...

You have to have the right genetics to be a mage and since Magical critters share that genetic aspect.

actually he's right.

some races are specifically mentioned that lack any ability to learn any magic. the talent is not present.


ALL humans, however, are born with the potential to learn magic. THAT is stated clearly right under the presut of magic.

Actually, Nekira, there are only THREE types of Creatures that specifically are unable to take up a Magic Practitioner O.C.C. in Canon. You'll note that the Restrictions have NOTHING to do with Genetics of any sort.


A]] Those Races whose Attributes (read: NOT Genetics) are insufficient to make up the Requirements of the Magic School/Class/O.C.C. in question.

B]] Those Races or Creatures who have no P.P.E., in the first place, for example the Machine People or the Shemarrians.

C]] Any Race, like the Seljuk, who have found means to block themselves from the Use of Magic for whatever reason.


And may I remind you that Undead, Alien Intelligences, Elementals, and Otherdimensional Beings like Demons and Deevils don't actually HAVE any D.N.A.?

So where, exactly, are you getting this "Genetic Pre-Disposition" Argument from??

Midiclorians?

[Rimmerdal]

And may I remind you that Undead, Alien Intelligences, Elementals, and Otherdimensional Beings like Demons and Deevils don't actually HAVE any D.N.A.?

So where, exactly, are you getting this "Genetic Pre-Disposition" Argument from?? [/quote]

The human body needs a little kick to deal with Psioncs..Magic uses the sam energy..so same should in theory hold true with a mage.

Also I don't a world with a million or so mages...frankly mages are like prostitutes on rifts...

But back to the science...Humanoids have DNA which means predispsitions are relevant. But Many D-Bees Also have DNA to (called something different...but it is equal to DNA.) but not all have readable DNA, I will concede.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Apptitudes can't be 'learned' and are genetic...hence a mage has to be BORN with the potental to learn and sensitve to magic, just like psychics...

You have to have the right genetics to be a mage and since Magical critters share that genetic aspect.

actually he's right.

some races are specifically mentioned that lack any ability to learn any magic. the talent is not present.


ALL humans, however, are born with the potential to learn magic. THAT is stated clearly right under the presut of magic.

Actually, Nekira, there are only THREE types of Creatures that specifically are unable to take up a Magic Practitioner O.C.C. in Canon. You'll note that the Restrictions have NOTHING to do with Genetics of any sort.


A]] Those Races whose Attributes (read: NOT Genetics) are insufficient to make up the Requirements of the Magic School/Class/O.C.C. in question.

B]] Those Races or Creatures who have no P.P.E., in the first place, for example the Machine People or the Shemarrians.

C]] Any Race, like the Seljuk, who have found means to block themselves from the Use of Magic for whatever reason.

[color=green]
[i]And may I remind you that Undead, Alien Intelligences, Elementals, and Otherdimensional Beings like Demons and Deevils don't actually HAVE any D.N.A.?

Cite cannon source. book and page number please.

[Rimmerdal]

Nekira Sudacne, PM me your thoughts on this..as it appears it will be a house rule..or like many new ideas slowly accepted...

[cornholioprime]

Apptitudes can't be 'learned' and are genetic...hence a mage has to be BORN with the potental to learn and sensitve to magic, just like psychics...

You have to have the right genetics to be a mage and since Magical critters share that genetic aspect.

actually he's right.

some races are specifically mentioned that lack any ability to learn any magic. the talent is not present.


ALL humans, however, are born with the potential to learn magic. THAT is stated clearly right under the presut of magic.

Actually, Nekira, there are only THREE types of Creatures that specifically are unable to take up a Magic Practitioner O.C.C. in Canon. You'll note that the Restrictions have NOTHING to do with Genetics of any sort.


A]] Those Races whose Attributes (read: NOT Genetics) are insufficient to make up the Requirements of the Magic School/Class/O.C.C. in question.

B]] Those Races or Creatures who have no P.P.E., in the first place, for example the Machine People or the Shemarrians.

C]] Any Race, like the Seljuk, who have found means to block themselves from the Use of Magic for whatever reason.

[color=green]
[i]And may I remind you that Undead, Alien Intelligences, Elementals, and Otherdimensional Beings like Demons and Deevils don't actually HAVE any D.N.A.?

Cite cannon source. book and page number please.

On what???

[Jesterzzn]

Nekira Sudacne, PM me your thoughts on this..as it appears it will be a house rule..or like many new ideas slowly accepted...

Prophets are never understood in their own time.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Apptitudes can't be 'learned' and are genetic...hence a mage has to be BORN with the potental to learn and sensitve to magic, just like psychics...

You have to have the right genetics to be a mage and since Magical critters share that genetic aspect.

actually he's right.

some races are specifically mentioned that lack any ability to learn any magic. the talent is not present.


ALL humans, however, are born with the potential to learn magic. THAT is stated clearly right under the presut of magic.

Actually, Nekira, there are only THREE types of Creatures that specifically are unable to take up a Magic Practitioner O.C.C. in Canon. You'll note that the Restrictions have NOTHING to do with Genetics of any sort.


A]] Those Races whose Attributes (read: NOT Genetics) are insufficient to make up the Requirements of the Magic School/Class/O.C.C. in question.

B]] Those Races or Creatures who have no P.P.E., in the first place, for example the Machine People or the Shemarrians.

C]] Any Race, like the Seljuk, who have found means to block themselves from the Use of Magic for whatever reason.

[color=green]
[i]And may I remind you that Undead, Alien Intelligences, Elementals, and Otherdimensional Beings like Demons and Deevils don't actually HAVE any D.N.A.?

Cite cannon source. book and page number please.

On what???

State where in the books it says that demons and deevils and Alien Intelligences don't have DNA.

and undead DO have DNA....same DNA as the person they were origionally in life.

[Blight]

Some one brought up a few legitmate issues I assumed people would figure out..but again the "simple ideas are always hardest to explain" proves true Also please stop saying anyone can learn magic, there are other races that have no magical talent and cannot be mages...

Quote:
1. Practitioners of magic are creatures of magic. FALSE

I haven't decided that yet..and actually a PCC are considered Psychic..as well NOT all benefits or limits of magical creatures apply to the mage..he only reads as magic creature on the radar.
This give the mage an element of risk that some demon hunter will shoot at him or treat him like a demon or other magic critter.. as they use the same energy source as magical critter..

Quote:
2. Magic works exactly like psionics. FALSE

I agree, That why I am asking how to make them LIKE psychics and not use the rules they do..except that you need to be born with a talent.

I for can try to be michael jordan...But I will never BE as good as him because I lack what it takes to play basketball that well..

Quote:
3. You must have the Genus Arcanus to be a magic user. W-T-F

The genetic code needed to access High levels of PPE..anyone who knows how to do ritual magic can..It's the true spell casters that need the genetic code for magic.

Quote:
4. Magic is more like an "MCC" than a "OCC" and you must roll for magic ability. FALSE

YOur right here to..when you make a PC YOU choose what you want..remember it is optional to roll for Psionics..it's also optional for magic.

This means You want a mage you make a mage..magic gene would apply to NPCs or those that WISH to roll.

THe Magic Gene:

This is a gene that allows mages to handle the excessive energy mages use. It allows the child to develop a stronger nervous system and immune system to compensate for the stress of magic use..

Also consider:
If one reads the Vamp kingdoms ancient Egyptian mages used magic..with the advent of technology they lost it is use in favor of tech. BUT the gene that allowed it is still there it was dormant until the cataclysm.

And, Jesterzzn, I was unclear on few aspect so I do intend on doing my best to concise...but thanks you helped a lot in spoting inconsistencies I would have over looked.

I just started reading this thread in what book did you get this out of cause I'm gona have to change some things in my games I thought it only took baleaf and practice.

[cornholioprime]

Apptitudes can't be 'learned' and are genetic...hence a mage has to be BORN with the potental to learn and sensitve to magic, just like psychics...

You have to have the right genetics to be a mage and since Magical critters share that genetic aspect.

actually he's right.

some races are specifically mentioned that lack any ability to learn any magic. the talent is not present.


ALL humans, however, are born with the potential to learn magic. THAT is stated clearly right under the presut of magic.

Actually, Nekira, there are only THREE types of Creatures that specifically are unable to take up a Magic Practitioner O.C.C. in Canon. You'll note that the Restrictions have NOTHING to do with Genetics of any sort.


A]] Those Races whose Attributes (read: NOT Genetics) are insufficient to make up the Requirements of the Magic School/Class/O.C.C. in question.

B]] Those Races or Creatures who have no P.P.E., in the first place, for example the Machine People or the Shemarrians.

C]] Any Race, like the Seljuk, who have found means to block themselves from the Use of Magic for whatever reason.

[color=green]
And may I remind you that Undead, Alien Intelligences, Elementals, and Otherdimensional Beings like Demons and Deevils don't actually HAVE any D.N.A.?

Cite cannon source. book and page number please.

On what???

State where in the books it says that demons and deevils and Alien Intelligences don't have DNA.

and undead DO have DNA....same DNA as the person they were origionally in life.

Alright then, Nekira. PLAY Semantics if you will.

Let's say that I concede the point to you and say that Undead stil have the DNA that their Host Bodies did when alive.

That STILL leaves you with the Intelligences, Demons, and Deevils which are ALL classified time and time again, throughout Rifts as well as Palladium, as True Supernatural Creatures.

Not just Creatures with Supernatural Powers, but actual Supernatural Beings who not only originate from other Dimensions, and most of which are immortal, NEVER need to eat, or even breathe (that doesn't sound like life as we know it, now does it, Dr. McCoy?), but also don't even sexually reproduce!!! Many amongst their number, particularly Gods, Elementals of all Power Levels and MOST Intelligences, don't even possess a Physical Body until and unless they choose to manifest one on the Material Plane (Palladium Books often refers to this as a "Primal Manifestation"). DNA, huh???

So, I'll do for you a [i]tete a tete.

I'll give you concrete Statements with Book, Quote, and Page Number that says that Energy Beings don't have DNA or even genes as we know them, AS SOON AS YOU CAN FIND FOR THE REST OF US A BOOK, QUOTE AND PAGE NUMBER -ANYWHERE IN RIFTS, OR ANYWHERE ELSE IN PALLADIUM BOOKS -THAT SAYS THAT YOU MUST HAVE THAT "GENUS ARCANUS" HOKUM THAT RIMMERDAL WAS TALKING ABOUT IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO USE MAGIC.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Apptitudes can't be 'learned' and are genetic...hence a mage has to be BORN with the potental to learn and sensitve to magic, just like psychics...

You have to have the right genetics to be a mage and since Magical critters share that genetic aspect.

actually he's right.

some races are specifically mentioned that lack any ability to learn any magic. the talent is not present.


ALL humans, however, are born with the potential to learn magic. THAT is stated clearly right under the presut of magic.

Actually, Nekira, there are only THREE types of Creatures that specifically are unable to take up a Magic Practitioner O.C.C. in Canon. You'll note that the Restrictions have NOTHING to do with Genetics of any sort.


A]] Those Races whose Attributes (read: NOT Genetics) are insufficient to make up the Requirements of the Magic School/Class/O.C.C. in question.

B]] Those Races or Creatures who have no P.P.E., in the first place, for example the Machine People or the Shemarrians.

C]] Any Race, like the Seljuk, who have found means to block themselves from the Use of Magic for whatever reason.

[color=green]
And may I remind you that Undead, Alien Intelligences, Elementals, and Otherdimensional Beings like Demons and Deevils don't actually HAVE any D.N.A.?

Cite cannon source. book and page number please.

On what???

State where in the books it says that demons and deevils and Alien Intelligences don't have DNA.

and undead DO have DNA....same DNA as the person they were origionally in life.

Alright then, Nekira. PLAY Semantics if you will.

Let's say that I concede the point to you and say that Undead stil have the DNA that their Host Bodies did when alive.

That STILL leaves you with the Intelligences, Demons, and Deevils which are ALL classified time and time again, throughout Rifts as well as Palladium, as True Supernatural Creatures.

Not just Creatures with Supernatural Powers, but actual Supernatural Beings who not only originate from other Dimensions, and most of which are immortal, NEVER need to eat, or even breathe (that doesn't sound like life as we know it, now does it, Dr. McCoy?), but also don't even sexually reproduce!!! Many amongst their number, particularly Gods, Elementals of all Power Levels and MOST Intelligences, don't even possess a Physical Body until and unless they choose to manifest one on the Material Plane (Palladium Books often refers to this as a "Primal Manifestation"). DNA, huh???

So, I'll do for you a [i]tete a tete.

I'll give you concrete Statements with Book, Quote, and Page Number that says that Energy Beings don't have DNA or even genes as we know them, AS SOON AS YOU CAN FIND FOR THE REST OF US A BOOK, QUOTE AND PAGE NUMBER -ANYWHERE IN RIFTS, OR ANYWHERE ELSE IN PALLADIUM BOOKS -THAT SAYS THAT YOU MUST HAVE THAT "GENUS ARCANUS" HOKUM THAT RIMMERDAL WAS TALKING ABOUT IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO USE MAGIC.

*ahem* I never said that there's a genus arcanus. I just said that the fact that some races like the duark-hawk that can't learn magic indiacte there's some realtion to natural aptitude.

and I never said it was cannon material.

BUT.....gods can reproduce with other races. take a look at the Demi-God RCC. genetic anyone?

[cornholioprime]

Apptitudes can't be 'learned' and are genetic...hence a mage has to be BORN with the potental to learn and sensitve to magic, just like psychics...

You have to have the right genetics to be a mage and since Magical critters share that genetic aspect.

actually he's right.

some races are specifically mentioned that lack any ability to learn any magic. the talent is not present.


ALL humans, however, are born with the potential to learn magic. THAT is stated clearly right under the presut of magic.

Actually, Nekira, there are only THREE types of Creatures that specifically are unable to take up a Magic Practitioner O.C.C. in Canon. You'll note that the Restrictions have NOTHING to do with Genetics of any sort.


A]] Those Races whose Attributes (read: NOT Genetics) are insufficient to make up the Requirements of the Magic School/Class/O.C.C. in question.

B]] Those Races or Creatures who have no P.P.E., in the first place, for example the Machine People or the Shemarrians.

C]] Any Race, like the Seljuk, who have found means to block themselves from the Use of Magic for whatever reason.

[color=green]
And may I remind you that Undead, Alien Intelligences, Elementals, and Otherdimensional Beings like Demons and Deevils don't actually HAVE any D.N.A.?

Cite cannon source. book and page number please.

On what???

State where in the books it says that demons and deevils and Alien Intelligences don't have DNA.

and undead DO have DNA....same DNA as the person they were origionally in life.

Alright then, Nekira. PLAY Semantics if you will.

Let's say that I concede the point to you and say that Undead stil have the DNA that their Host Bodies did when alive.

That STILL leaves you with the Intelligences, Demons, and Deevils which are ALL classified time and time again, throughout Rifts as well as Palladium, as True Supernatural Creatures.

Not just Creatures with Supernatural Powers, but actual Supernatural Beings who not only originate from other Dimensions, and most of which are immortal, NEVER need to eat, or even breathe (that doesn't sound like life as we know it, now does it, Dr. McCoy?), but also don't even sexually reproduce!!! Many amongst their number, particularly Gods, Elementals of all Power Levels and MOST Intelligences, don't even possess a Physical Body until and unless they choose to manifest one on the Material Plane (Palladium Books often refers to this as a "Primal Manifestation"). DNA, huh???

So, I'll do for you a [i]tete a tete.

I'll give you concrete Statements with Book, Quote, and Page Number that says that Energy Beings don't have DNA or even genes as we know them, AS SOON AS YOU CAN FIND FOR THE REST OF US A BOOK, QUOTE AND PAGE NUMBER -ANYWHERE IN RIFTS, OR ANYWHERE ELSE IN PALLADIUM BOOKS -THAT SAYS THAT YOU MUST HAVE THAT "GENUS ARCANUS" HOKUM THAT RIMMERDAL WAS TALKING ABOUT IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO USE MAGIC.

*ahem* I never said that there's a genus arcanus. I just said that the fact that some races like the duark-hawk that can't learn magic indiacte there's some realtion to natural aptitude.

and I never said it was cannon material.

BUT.....gods can reproduce with other races. take a look at the Demi-God RCC. genetic anyone?

Genetically gaining (at least in part) the powers of the God that sired you -magical or otherwise -is NOT the same thing as being blocked from ALL Magic, or even being allowed to use magic at all, if your Genetics aren't "right."

[Killer Cyborg]

I just said that the fact that some races like the duark-hawk that can't learn magic indiacte there's some realtion to natural aptitude.

Actually, I see it the other way around.
It's not that the Hawrk-whatever creatures lack a natural aptitude, it's that they have a specific natural trait that prevents them from using magic.

[Rimmerdal]

Tha trait KC had to passed down somehow to others of its kind...

[Jesterzzn]

Tha trait KC had to passed down somehow to others of its kind...

Riiiight, so you agree, that without that specific train preventing them from learning magic, they could infact learn magic. You see no "trait" allows beings to learn magic, but some traits can disallow.

[cornholioprime]

Tha trait KC had to passed down somehow to others of its kind...

Riiiight, so you agree, that without that specific train preventing them from learning magic, they could infact learn magic. You see no "trait" allows beings to learn magic, but some traits can disallow.

I like that thought there.....It's essentially the Doom-III -ized version of what I was trying to say......

[Rimmerdal]

Genetics are funny that way..

like Binary computers it's on or off..no middle ground. so I stand on magic being a gene allowed trait..

But you are right being unable to cast magic is not a lack of PPE..since the magic inept can still read scrolls or use TW items...

so he can't access it for mage training even if the attribute and alignment prereqs are there...that would seem logical and fair.

[cornholioprime]

Genetics are funny that way..

like Binary computers it's on or off..no middle ground. so I stand on magic being a gene allowed trait..

Never mind. If that's what you want in YOUR Game, fine. Absolutely NO Canon references to back up your views whatsoever.

But you are right being unable to cast magic is not a lack of PPE..since the magic inept can still read scrolls or use TW items...

That is a non sequitur. Devices like Talismans, Scrolls,and (certain) TW Devices already have the P.P.E. built in as a charge; all one has to do in that case, whether Ley Line Walker or Skelebot, is read the Scroll/pull the trigger/Activate the Talisman.

so he can't access it for mage training even if the attribute and alignment prereqs are there...that would seem logical and fair.

Again, NO Canon references to back up your views whatsoever.

It's kinda weird, really.

You keep saying the exact same thing over and over again, yet WITHOUT even Book, Quote, and Page Numbers that could show SOME basis for your assertions, as if you could change what is by simply repeating the same thing, without Proof, over and over again.

Let's try a different tack: Why don't you show us by Book, Quote, and Page Number, ANY Statement in Rifts that at least proves your assertion??

[Rimmerdal]

Not sure which book has true mundanes and it is more a house rule now, Other ideas came up that demand the bulk of my attention.

Besides if your objective you would ask your self if I made different how would I?

That how I think anyway..This is forum to give Ideas and opinions...and ,buddy, I intend too.

so be nice and expand your horizon even further..

[Jesterzzn]

Besides if your objective you would ask your self if I made different how would I?

I am not trying to poke fun, but...

[cornholioprime]

Not sure which book has true mundanes and it is more a house rule now, Other ideas came up that demand the bulk of my attention.

Besides if your objective you would ask your self if I made different how would I?

That how I think anyway..This is forum to give Ideas and opinions...and ,buddy, I intend too.

so be nice and expand your horizon even further..

Rimmer, you apparently miss the ENTIRE point of these Forums.

EVERYONE here makes their own Rule regarding how they play their Games.

BUT, when you ask Questions in the Forum, UNLESS you ask other Posters what their own House Rules are, the only Response you can really get IS a Canon one.

Refuting your attempts to make your views on Magic somehow be accepted as 'official 'is NOT a case of me or anybody else not having "expanded horizons," as you put it.

It's telling you that when you try to assert a certain Idea as "official," but without proof, or even Theory(ies) that lend credence to your assertion, then you're going to get called on it.

Simple as that.

[Rimmerdal]

But I will concede sometimes I am less open to ideas like anyone else here occaisionally.

having only 3 books and limited access to other guides I can't look up refferences..and thats why I get touchy on that..it's nothing personel.

And Jesterzzn, the spell checker deleted a word or 2 so the point got lost there....

I just look for other more experienced players and GM's view on how they would do something. Not someone saying "no it can't be done..." I'd rather hear a "If I used that rule I would..." so far I can say most are willing to give an idea or two..

(Damned spell checker...!!!!)

[cornholioprime]

But I will concede sometimes I am less open to ideas like anyone else here occaisionally.

having only 3 books and limited access to other guides I can't look up refferences..and thats why I get touchy on that..it's nothing personel.

And Jesterzzn, the spell checker deleted a word or 2 so the point got lost there....

I just look for other more experienced players and GM's view on how they would do something. Not someone saying "no it can't be done..." I'd rather hear a "If I used that rule I would..." so far I can say most are willing to give an idea or two..

(Damned spell checker...!!!!)

And all that anyone is saying/requesting is for you to put the fact that you are looking for ways other Players/GMs "House-Rule" it in your Post at the very beginning.....

THEN, you'll get PLENTY of House Rules and Ideas from the various Posters to this Forum......

[Rimmerdal]

I will in endeavor to in the future...and work on the Victor lazlo impression too..it'll be great parties.