Can a Juicer catch an arrow in combat?

[cornholioprime]

Why not?? IRL, regular Humans do it all the time. A select few can catch them in their mouths!!!

[Sentinel]

Yes. I don't give them more than their auto-dodge bonus to do so. They roll to catch instead of dodge, and if they fail, then they still catch it...in the head.

[Killer Cyborg]

I'd just count it as a parry.
And juicers can't be suprised, so ambush or suprise is not an issue.

[Killer Cyborg]

Its not a Parry, you are technically attacking the Arrow, so it would be on your Strike bonus, not Parry Bonus.

I disagree.
Sure, you could argue that it uses strike bonuses because you are making a grab attack... but by that logic a Parry would also use strike bonuses, because you are hitting it with your hand.
(And no, you aren't merely holding your arm up and letting them hit it. That's not parrying, that's putting your arm in harms way.)

But for people who can be surprised. You can not catch an Arrow, if you did not know it was coming.

Well, you might catch it in the spine...

[Killer Cyborg]

It has to be done as a Strike. Parrying an attack is inherently easier than making an attack. And in RIFTS the stats reflect this as well, accounting for most characters having inherently better parry skill than strike ability.

If we made something this difficult count as a Parry it would make it literally twice as easy to Achieve.

I see what you're saying, but I don't see what the big deal is.
Say the juicer catches the arrow instead of parrying it.
So?
Either way the arrow doesn't hit him.
Besides, there's nothing saying that you can't impose penalties to parry.

[Killer Cyborg]

Juicers can parry bullets and energy blasts.
I don't think they'd have problems catching an arrow.

[glitterboy2098]

And juicers can't be suprised, so ambush or suprise is not an issue.

is it, "can't be surprised" so much as "can't be taken off guard"

i'm quite sure that a Juicer lacking the detect concealment or detect ambush skills can be ambushed, its just that they get no penalties for it since they have faster reflexes and hightened awarness.

so you can surprise them with something, but it doesn't phase them like a normal person.


and i'd call an attempt to catch an arrow a parry, after all, parrying a projectile is just deflecting the shot, and when you grab an arrow in mid flight your arm becomes the fulcrum for an arcing course change.

[Killer Cyborg]

And juicers can't be suprised, so ambush or suprise is not an issue.

is it, "can't be surprised" so much as "can't be taken off guard"

i'm quite sure that a Juicer lacking the detect concealment or detect ambush skills can be ambushed, its just that they get no penalties for it since they have faster reflexes and hightened awarness.

so you can surprise them with something, but it doesn't phase them like a normal person.

"The Juicer enjoys an automatic dodge or parry against all attacks, even from behind."

[Sentinel]

Take a good look at the nature of the bonuses of the juicer. They could catch arrows. They are meant to be the kings of speed. Look at their attack per melee bonus, SPD, PP, etc. What makes it appear that human limitations apply to the speed and reflexive coordination of a juicer?

[Dr. Doom III]

I'd go with the same as a parry with an extra -2 tacked on.

[Killer Cyborg]

Yes Automatic Dodge. But they most likely could not turn around and catch an Arrow they did not know was coming. There is a difference.

Ahem..
I said:

"The Juicer enjoys an automatic dodge or parry against all attacks, even from behind."

[glitterboy2098]

Yes Automatic Dodge. But they most likely could not turn around and catch an Arrow they did not know was coming. There is a difference.

Ahem..
I said:

"The Juicer enjoys an automatic dodge or parry against all attacks, even from behind."

ok, "From behind" is not the same as "does not know its coming."

you can be attacked from behind and still know its coming, little sounds, ground tremors, the feel of an opponents breath, ect.

[Killer Cyborg]

Yes Automatic Dodge. But they most likely could not turn around and catch an Arrow they did not know was coming. There is a difference.

Ahem..
I said:

"The Juicer enjoys an automatic dodge or parry against all attacks, even from behind."

ok, "From behind" is not the same as "does not know its coming."

you can be attacked from behind and still know its coming, little sounds, ground tremors, the feel of an opponents breath, ect.

Which is why a juicer can't be caught off guard or suprised.

Main Book, p. 69
"gets an automatic parry or dodge on all attacks, even from behind/surprise"

CB1, p. 10
"The Juicer enjoys an automatic dodge or parry against all attacks, even from behind. But most others are vulnerable to the first attack (the element of suprise) and cannot dodge or parry this very first bombardment directed at them."

[Colonel Wolfe]

Yes Automatic Dodge. But they most likely could not turn around and catch an Arrow they did not know was coming. There is a difference.

Ahem..
I said:

"The Juicer enjoys an automatic dodge or parry against all attacks, even from behind."

I'm a Little confused by the word All..

[Killer Cyborg]

The part being confused is weather or not catching an arrow is a parry or an attack.

I do not count it as a Parry, it is much more difficult. It would be more closely described as a Grapple. Which is a specialized attack.

By that logic, a parry should count as a knockdown attack like a bodyblock/tackle...
But whatever floats your boat.
If you're going to say that it counts as a grapple, only allow juicers with the Westling skill to do it, and only on the natural 18, 19, or 20 that allows a Pin...

A Juicer can Dodge or Parry any Attack. But last I checked that is the only things they can do in reaction to attacks from behind.

I assume that they can still Roll with impact or simo attack.
But if you're going to go strictly by the rules, then nobody can catch arrows at all, because "Catch" is not one of the combat options.

[Drakenred®™©]

And juicers can't be suprised

Even if the French win a landwar while being lead by a Frenchman?

sorry I am in a odd state of mind.

[Jesterzzn]

And juicers can't be suprised

Even if the French win a landwar while being lead by a Frenchman?

sorry I am in a odd state of mind.

That is not funny!

[Jefffar]

To the origional question: If a Juicer can't, who can?

About the Mechanics: This issue has come up before in my games (do't ask) and our standard policy on catching a projectile is as follows:

Step 1: Roll Parry - Why? Because you need to execute the action at a time and place to prevent yourself from getting hit.

Step 2: Roll Strike - Why? Because a strie roll is used to represent a grab attack.

There's some negatives on both, and both rolls must succeed to avoid taking an arrow/knife/spear/shruiken the hard way.

[Nekira Sudacne]

sure he could. I'd say with just a normal parry with no modifiers. if a norm can do it, they should have no problems.

and even if they fail, so what?

that's what? 2d6 SDC out of 1d4*100?

[cornholioprime]

sure he could. I'd say with just a normal parry with no modifiers. if a norm can do it, they should have no problems.

and even if they fail, so what?

that's what? 2d6 SDC out of 1d4*100?

I'm not kidding, guys. Normal Humans really can and do catch Arrows IRL (and yes, some of them 'fail....' to get the trick right. But you only get to fail ONCE). I really don't see ANY problem why a Juicer can't do it at "...10X the Speed of a normal Human..."

[Sentinel]

The arrow could be enchanted, could be fired by someone like a Zen Archer, could have explosive tips, or specialty tips ala Villains Unlimited...
Lots of reasons for a resident speed freak to want to catch an arrow.
Like I said, I think they should have a chance. I find the auto-dodge bonus works for balance sake, but I can see why some would prefer strike or parry bonus.
Now what's the issue? Is it that the juicer can try it at all, or that his bonuses are too high for some tastes?

[Dead Boy]

It has to be done as a Strike. Parrying an attack is inherently easier than making an attack. And in RIFTS the stats reflect this as well, accounting for most characters having inherently better parry skill than strike ability.

If we made something this difficult count as a Parry it would make it literally twice as easy to Achieve.

I see what you're saying, but I don't see what the big deal is.
Say the juicer catches the arrow instead of parrying it.
So?
Either way the arrow doesn't hit him.
Besides, there's nothing saying that you can't impose penalties to parry.

I think a little middle-ground can be found here. How about this, allow the Juicer to deflect the arrow with a parry, using his full parry bonuses. However in order to catch the arrow the defensive roll has to be in the zone of what his strike bonuse would grant.

For example: Jo-Jo the dancing Juicer sees an arrow flying at him in the slow-mo perception common to those of his kind. He opts to catch the thing so he can later shove it down the shooter's throat. He has a Parry bonus of +8 and a Strike bonus of +5. On the roll for his Auto-Parry he rolls a 10 vs the shooter's total offensive roll of 16. The parry's total result of 18 is enough to deflect the arrow, but since the base roll of 10 plus the strike bonus of +5 is only 15, one less than the shooter's 16, he failed to grab it out of the air.

That work for you guys?

[cornholioprime]

It has to be done as a Strike. Parrying an attack is inherently easier than making an attack. And in RIFTS the stats reflect this as well, accounting for most characters having inherently better parry skill than strike ability.

If we made something this difficult count as a Parry it would make it literally twice as easy to Achieve.

I see what you're saying, but I don't see what the big deal is.
Say the juicer catches the arrow instead of parrying it.
So?
Either way the arrow doesn't hit him.
Besides, there's nothing saying that you can't impose penalties to parry.

I think a little middle-ground can be found here. How about this, allow the Juicer to deflect the arrow with a parry, using his full parry bonuses. However in order to catch the arrow the defensive roll has to be in the zone of what his strike bonuse would grant.

For example: Jo-Jo the dancing Juicer sees an arrow flying at him in the slow-mo perception common to those of his kind. He opts to catch the thing so he can later shove it down the shooter's throat. He has a Parry bonus of +8 and a Strike bonus of +5. On the roll for his Auto-Parry he rolls a 10 vs the shooter's total offensive roll of 16. The parry's total result of 18 is enough to deflect the arrow, but since the base roll of 10 plus the strike bonus of +5 is only 15, one less than the shooter's 16, he failed to grab it out of the air.

That work for you guys?

Looks pretty good for something you whipped up on the fly.

Why not???

[Killer Cyborg]

Ninjas and superspies covers this.

First you roll to parry (take into account any penalties to parry an arrow).

If the arrow (or other thrown catchable object) is successfully parried, the person may spend a melee attack to roll to 'grab' the object. If it succeeds, they have it in their possession. They must of course have a free hand to do this.

Good find!
I knew I should have looked there..

[Zer0 Kay]

Its not a Parry, you are technically attacking the Arrow, so it would be on your Strike bonus, not Parry Bonus.

I disagree.
Sure, you could argue that it uses strike bonuses because you are making a grab attack... but by that logic a Parry would also use strike bonuses, because you are hitting it with your hand.
(And no, you aren't merely holding your arm up and letting them hit it. That's not parrying, that's putting your arm in harms way.)

That would be called a block

But for people who can be surprised. You can not catch an Arrow, if you did not know it was coming.

Well, you might catch it in the spine...

Your sarcasm was not lost on me...it was thrown away, that was just bad (as in Mel Brooks stupid funny).

[Zer0 Kay]

It has to be done as a Strike. Parrying an attack is inherently easier than making an attack. And in RIFTS the stats reflect this as well, accounting for most characters having inherently better parry skill than strike ability.

If we made something this difficult count as a Parry it would make it literally twice as easy to Achieve.

I hope your talking in game because a Parry in real life is harder than a strike. You have to read the person to know which direction he is attacking from so that you can effectively parry the attack other wise it becomes a block which requires you put in as much strength as the attacker and can become a danger to you if the attacker pins your block against your body.

[Dead Boy]

So if you have paired weapons can you catch two arrows?

Not even in your wildest of wet dreams.

[Sentinel]

So if you have paired weapons can you catch two arrows?

I would allow a juicer to attempt this, but not because he had paired weapons.

[dark brandon]

So if you have paired weapons can you catch two arrows?

You don't need paired weapons. To catch something in your off hand, it would be a penalty of possibly double what trying to catch one in your regular hand.

Juicers could do it. If only for the awesome factor. Unless catching 2 arrows would be deterimental to the balance of the game, i wouldn't have a problem with it. They are juicers. They only live for 5 years. Let them have some fun before they vomit up pink slushies.

[Sentinel]

So if you have paired weapons can you catch two arrows?

You don't need paired weapons. To catch something in your off hand, it would be a penalty of possibly double what trying to catch one in your regular hand.

Juicers could do it. If only for the awesome factor. Unless catching 2 arrows would be deterimental to the balance of the game, i wouldn't have a problem with it. They are juicers. They only live for 5 years. Let them have some fun before they vomit up pink slushies.

Not me man. I'm a Mega-Juicer. When I go, I'm taking a roomfull of people with me!