'Borg PS problem

[Lok]

An unmodified human can achieve a PS in excess of 30. A Partial Conversion 'Borg maxes out at 22, and a full conversion at 36. The book says its because of strain to the human part of the body and no reason is given for the full conversion. But if there's so much strain, why bother with a conversion at all?

This also leads to problems; like what if a human with a PS of 26 loses an arm? Does he end up with two different PS scores?

Why is a powered Armour suit stronger than a full conversion borg, with no human bits left to 'strain'?

So; why not allow partial conversion Borgs purchase PS scores on the human scale, with a maximum of say, 35. And switch full conversions to the Robot PS table with a maximum of say, 40?

[Rimmer]

Welcome to the weird and wonderful world of consistantly, consistant, inconsistancies (try saying that three times fast) we house ruled it in my games, to be more or less like the way you suggested, as the rules for borg strength as far as canon goes, are stupid.

Another stupid point is why is a scrawny little T-21 terrain hopper, stronger than a full conversion borg ?

[Nekira Sudacne]

according to the GM's guide, partial and full conversion borgs have the same kind of scale of PS as juicers and crazys. meaning they can lift more and do MD on power punches, which a person with a PS of 40+ can't do unagumented

[Borast]

An unmodified human can achieve a PS in excess of 30. A Partial Conversion 'Borg maxes out at 22, and a full conversion at 36. The book says its because of strain to the human part of the body and no reason is given for the full conversion. But if there's so much strain, why bother with a conversion at all?

This also leads to problems; like what if a human with a PS of 26 loses an arm? Does he end up with two different PS scores?

Why is a powered Armour suit stronger than a full conversion borg, with no human bits left to 'strain'?

So; why not allow partial conversion Borgs purchase PS scores on the human scale, with a maximum of say, 35. And switch full conversions to the Robot PS table with a maximum of say, 40?

Don't forget, the 'borg has robotic strength, not "human" PS...

As for the partial conversion...it would have to do with the fusion of man and machine, the machine parts don't move "naturally," that is where the strain referred to comes in.

[Tinker Dragoon]

An unmodified human can achieve a PS in excess of 30. A Partial Conversion 'Borg maxes out at 22, and a full conversion at 36. The book says its because of strain to the human part of the body and no reason is given for the full conversion. But if there's so much strain, why bother with a conversion at all?

Hmm, I could have sworn the maximum for a normal human being was 30... At any rate, bionic conversion in't generally performed on world-class body-builders, so it's not generally a disadvantage. Also with bionic endoskeletal reinforcement and high-quality custom parts (as per the rules in the Bionics Sourcebook) it is possible -- albeit difficult and expensive -- for a full conversion 'borg to get as high as P.S. 45.

This also leads to problems; like what if a human with a PS of 26 loses an arm? Does he end up with two different PS scores?

If he gets an artificial limb, yes. Any attacks made with the bionic limb would use the P.S. damage bonus of that limb.

Why is a powered Armour suit stronger than a full conversion borg, with no human bits left to 'strain'?

Actually full conversion cyborgs do have human bits left to strain, although some of it may be in the form of synthetic cybernetic organs.

Power armor is stronger though mainly because it has robot strength, whereas cyborgs are normally no stronger than a strong unaugmented human, except that they can do Mega Damage Power Punches.

So; why not allow partial conversion Borgs purchase PS scores on the human scale, with a maximum of say, 35. And switch full conversions to the Robot PS table with a maximum of say, 40?

The rules already allow full conversion cyborgs to purchase robotic P.S. as a bionic system. Certain Triax, Japanese, and Russian cyborgs in fact start out with robotic P.S. as I recall...

See Warlords of Russia or the Bionics Sourcebook for full pricing and details.

[Mack]

Don't forget, the 'borg has robotic strength, not "human" PS...

Borgs do not have "Robotic" strength. They have "Augmented" strength, and use the same table as Juicers, Crazies, and Exoskeletons. (RGMG, p. 24)

[Mack]

An unmodified human can achieve a PS in excess of 30.

Not sure where you're getting this from, unless you mean maxing the attribute roll at 24 (all 6's on 4D6, a 1/1296 chance) then taking many Physical skills.

[Brian Manning]

An unmodified human can achieve a PS in excess of 30.

Not sure where you're getting this from, unless you mean maxing the attribute roll at 24 (all 6's on 4D6, a 1/1296 chance) then taking many Physical skills.

I've seen it happen. Of course we also use a "second" bonus die if the first was also a 6. But even then it would max out a 30. But I've seen players pick an OCC and skills that have taken the human PS past 30 (even if they didn't roll a 24+ to begin with). It's not hard to do. Of course it happens a lot less if the players aren't intentionally going for as high a PS score as possible (it doesn't fit their concept). I mean it happened more often when we were younger Rifts players, more impressed by strength and firepower, but that's not the case anymore.

[Killer Cyborg]

An unmodified human can achieve a PS in excess of 30.

Not sure where you're getting this from, unless you mean maxing the attribute roll at 24 (all 6's on 4D6, a 1/1296 chance) then taking many Physical skills.

I've seen it happen. Of course we also use a "second" bonus die if the first was also a 6. But even then it would max out a 30. But I've seen players pick an OCC and skills that have taken the human PS past 30 (even if they didn't roll a 24+ to begin with). It's not hard to do. Of course it happens a lot less if the players aren't intentionally going for as high a PS score as possible (it doesn't fit their concept). I mean it happened more often when we were younger Rifts players, more impressed by strength and firepower, but that's not the case anymore.

I made a N&S Dreamer Gizmoteer with PS of 31. Just roll well and take a lot of physical skills.

[TechnoGothic]

Good rule of thumb for RIFTs Strength charts ***Don't use them, use HU2's instead for Lifting/carring amounts*** with one modification...

Supernatural PS Carry x 300, Lift x 500

Superhuman PS ( Robotic ) Carry x 200, Lift x 300

Extraordinary PS ( Bionic ) Carry x 100, Lift x 200

*new* Enhanced PS ( Juicer ) Carry x 50, Lift x 100
*new* Strong PS ( Crazy ) Carry x 20, Lift x 40
*new* Normal Human PS -- Carry x 10, Lift x 20
Normal Human PS is for all Humans no matter the PS number. 3 to 30 normal ps...normal people have only One Strength Class this way.

Using the Chart above allows better ranges of Strength for everyone, specially HUMANS themself...
Ever noticed how in PB games its immpossible to be able to lift weight between Normal PS 16 and Strong 17...its a huge gap in Strength abilty where Two of my Players in Real Life, would be in Limbo PS wise, because their Actual weight amounts arent represented in the charts.
This way, they could be used....My Mod-Normal Human PS 20 is where they would be at.