The Ramifications of Super Powers In A Modern Setting

[Daniel Stoker]

Who's to say all Super Powers will even show UP in Genetic Testing? For all we know that 'junk' DNA might be the stuff that would end up coding for mutant powers and it could be different in each person making it even MORE confusing. Plus would someone like an Experiment have any tell tale markers when it was Radiation or Chemicals used to mutate them?



Daniel Stoker

[Snowtiger]

Experiments may or may not have their DNA flagged with markers, depending on how the experiment was done, the introduction of chemicals or radiation might not leave any markers, but deliberate experimentation is easier to do if you have some markers so that the changes in the DNA can be tracked and seen.

However, an Eugenics character is bound to have genetic markers in his DNA, because this guy was genetically designed to be more than the average human being. These markers would be there even if the character looks like a perfectly normal human being.

[Daniel Stoker]

then what if some nut job gets ahold of this list and starts offing them left and right?

You're speaking like the Michigan Militia and their ilk. THE GUV'MENT WANTS OUR GUNS!

No... his point is more of what if someone who doesn't like mutants gets that list and starts killing people on the list. And to your earlier example about Lil' Cyclops zapping some kid at school. The same thing we do to kids who bting guns to school and shoot people.




Daniel Stoker

[RockJock]

Lynx, your totally right about the discrimination ect, but that could be the way the US, or the world goes. Think about various countries. Being different, and more importantly implied dangerous would lead many societies to put restrictions. I would see something similar to someone with a history of seisures wanting a drivers license. They can get one, but need to prove they are safe to themselves and others.

[Killer Cyborg]

I don't know if anybody remembers Marvel's New Universe titles from back in the 80s, but the basic premise was this:

-The world was normal, until one day there was a big flash of light all over the globe. Then people started gaining mutations and super powers.
-The city of Pittsburgh was obliterated by the super hero Starbrand (on accident), and nobody knew how it happened or who was responsible.
-Almost immediately after Pittsburgh was destroyed, the US government passed legislation that immediately drafted all paranomals into the military.

[Daniel Stoker]

[quote="Jaegermeister"

And the Militia thinks the same. Someone will get "The List" and TAKE THERE GUNS! It's silly there and silly with the mutants.
[/quote]

No it's silly when you say the Government is going to do it. It's less silly, especially today and with computer hacking to believe that lists like that wouldn't get out when NON-GOVERNMENT groups would be doing all they could to get them.

And since they stop guns from coming to school; they'll stop powers from coming to school.

But you can't. 'Seperate but Equal' has been found unconstitutional. Unlike a gun you can't just tell some kid to leave his 'power' at home. And do you not let the kids who know Karate or Boxing into school too since THEY could use their skills to beat people up or kill them?

In my high school day, we could carry guns to school. Well, in your vehicle in the parking lot. Some people would hunt before school or after. There was never a reason to take them up to the buildings, even though hazing was pretty much sanctioned. And you wished that you could kill those phuckheads, but...one didn't do those things. We could carry knives and big ones. I carried a big Bowie knife that I made from a kit. It would go through a small person chest and nail 'em to the wall. We had BB gun fights, play violent video games, watch violent movies, and we turned out alright. Never once did we want to do those things...for real.

And I have NO idea what on earth your point is there.....



Daniel Stoker

[Prince Cherico]

There are also other things to consider space travel will be
more advanced one mutant with gravity manipulation will
alter the space equation utterly. Corperations will hire mutants
and use them for their powers economys will change and
contruction will boom

[KillWatch]

just in my game

1) The genetic mutation that allows for powers is the x-factor (I know how origianl) but I was trying to come up with an additional one letter dna segment to allow for the powers and there it was
So DNA screening is possible and done regularly in the military and any other time blood is drawn in the outside world of my setting city prime.

2) Mutants are largely unknow. We have all heard of ghosts UFOs and bigfoot etc but no one really takes it seriously
and if someone told you what they saw or got pictures there are ways of discrediting the evidence

3) in my world most mutants don't make it to the ripe old age of 21
just because you have powers doesn't mean you can control them
also a common trigger for powers to activate is trauma. how many normal yet traumatic events happen in a life time
a) fetus dna screens or ultra sounds detect abnormalities and to avoid the threat of pubilic ridicule and disdain, to keep the mother, father and doctor all healthy and living they decide to abort, not to mention the DNA of the child may cause fatal mutations such as lack of a respiratory system
b) baby has body weaponry in the womb
c) birth (traumatic for both baby and mother) APS Fire Nova in the delivery room
e) depending on how the baby looks such as any obvius mutations, the parents might decide to kill it or TRY to give it away and try again
f) growing: mutations may occur that again could be fatal to the child
g) toddler: people are not going to want their kids to play with a mutie freak for some stupid reasons like maybe it's contagious or not so dumb one's like little tim has a problem with dimensional pockets and neighborhood kids keep disappearing when playing with him
h) freindly neighborhood lynch mobs. Take a look at white people in the south in the 30s-60's. and black people didn't even inspire the notion that humans are being evolutionarily phased out, nor could they sneeze and do 3d6
i) accidental power use: APS fire who isn't immune to his own flames, APS liquiod who can't pull himself together and gets fatally deluted going down the drain, EE through the eyes unfortunately his eyes weren' evolved enough to handle it and blows his own eyes out of his skull, or maybe the eyes don't express it and the energy just builds to the head just pops in a mess of toddler brain goo
j) Puberty-another time when mutant powers can erupt and go horribly wrong. Ignoring the possible self inflicted deaths Bobby Drake decides he wants to go to the prom and hooks up with susie q. All is going well he lets his guard down relaxed in a state of bliss as they move across the dance floor. He closes his eyes and they kiss. But she doesn't let up nor does she do anything but stand their. Bobby hears a scream and his eyes open and there he sees the only girl who gave him a chance is frozen in a moment that was to be little bobby's last hope for love and happiness (hehehehe)
k) for women: every period
l) women again: Menopause
m) any kind of NDE
n) any serious illness
o) and finally suicide-the world hates you. and you don't just think it you've seen towns people come after with pitchforks and shotguns. YOur family diowned you, you've possibly endangered everyone you ever got close to literally and emotionally. you've decided that you need to lock yourself away not to hurt anyone else. Seeing the world go on without you, you begin to wonder if it would miss you at all. you load the gun and test your theory (hehehehe)
p) and one more all this trauma and tension that has a very good possibility of building could result in severl psychosi. Mixed with powers none of them are good. How about a telepath diagnosed schitzo who really DOES hear voices in his head?


take this into account and the little fact in my game that there is 1 mutie freak for every million humans that comes out to be 7000-however many just don't make it)-those who just choose to ignore that part of themselves

and it's not so far off to think that we would round mutants up and kill them we do that with natural predators


as for the question if my kid was shunned because he was a mutant well that would depend on the kid. if he was an evil bugger I'd probably lynch him myself
otherwise why would I be surprised at any kind of discrimination?

and discrimination is NOT a bad word people. People with an IQ do not get CEO positions (although sometimes that may be debatable) A retarded kid (I say it because they ARE) will not win the noble physics prize. Why? well if you have to ask then neither will you.

when/if we get to the metal and flesh days where cybernaetics are avaialable I am sure they won't be allowed to compete either. It's discrimation against those who have lost limbs and now have cybernetics yes ye sit is so what

we don't allow cheetahs to run the 100 meter.

etc
etc
etc

[ZEN]

Believe it or not this subject/problem has never come up the entire time I have been running HU campaigns.. but it's fun watching you guys get all knicker twisted about it.

Some good points have been raised, there are pros and cons to the whole 'outed metahumans' issue.

Nobody has mentioned Aliens though.. HU does have alien player characters.. but I guess the subject of descimination vs aliens is a moot point.. people would react like the mob of screeching apes were really are.. throw sticks and poop at the aliens, run away and make a lot of noise.. or something similar.

[KillWatch]

what changed?

PC Overdrive and the loss of discipline at home

Kids today have their parents int he palms of their sticky candy hands. (no not all children)

we've put children up on pedastals and become oversenstive to them and at the same time not sensitive enough

on one hand we have kids who are all armored up just ride a bike. we are paranoid about germs and a kid is lucky if he is able to horse around and climb a friggan tree. compare the playgrounds most of us grew up with and what they look like now, plastic everywhere. Slides that twist because they don't want the children to build up too much speed (funny IO thought that WAS the point of a slide) and hurt themselves
we cow tow to the weakest of us, and darwinism shoved out the car

on the other hand both parents need to work
I saw a graph on sunday int eh paper regarding the inflation rate, minimum wage, avg worker pay and of course ceo pay incareases. But to stay with the topic, avg pay and minumum wage were well under the increase of inflation. So kids don't have the care and attention and guidance that they need to steer them clear social and moral dangers yet confine them to world nerf

anyhow
with mutants
easily solved if you have a specific reaction, happening or even dna sequence that produces the super powers

as for hardwares what? I don't understand how anyone could equate them with mutants. Sure they are brillaint, so what. Are they going to go back and claim that eisntein, newton, hawking are all mutants?

I think that even if they ARE paranoid of mutants it is going to have to be something spectacular like shooting flames out your bumb to be branded a mutant or brought into question about it

[Daniel Stoker]

Surely, there will be some kind of detectors. Somebody with psi powers is going to have a lot more heat leaking upstairs than somebody who doesn't.

Why? We can't detect people who suffer from genetic disorders NOW without a lot of expensive research and tests. Just because Marvel has mutant powers come from an easily identifiable genetic marker that every mutant shares and that everyone seems to know about doesn't mean that it will turn out to be that easy to figure out. Heck, skin color is coded for by MULTIPLE Genes spread about on the Chromosomes which is why you have gradations of color between different peoples.



Daniel Stoker

[ZEN]

You may not be able to detect mutant gene sequences (one gene doesn't do very much on it's own, you need a few genes to create a specific protein).. what you can do is detect the unusual physiology and create chemical means of detecting abnormal proteins created by mutant gene sequences.
The level of testing they are at now, there is simply no way a mutant or experiment super being could get away with it.

[Daniel Stoker]

Really though? Do mutants who shoot lasers out of their eyes have a special organ or something? What about someone who has APS: Stone? Sure some traits like Claws is going to be detectable, but others? How do we know how it will even work let alone be detectable?



Daniel Stoker

[glitterboy2098]

3) in my world most mutants don't make it to the ripe old age of 21
just because you have powers doesn't mean you can control them
also a common trigger for powers to activate is trauma. how many normal yet traumatic events happen in a life time

when they refer to activation like that, it usually means the event which makes a person discover their powers.

in the X-men universe, most mutants seem perfectly normal until their teenage years, where the stress of being an adult physically and emotionally but considered a kid legally act as a trigger. (note that some mutants in this setting do have powers form birth, and their are some who didn't, but were disfigured.)

in the DC universe, a similar situation is involved with the metahumans.

it not neccesarily an event which makes the person use the power unconsciously.


---------------

for an interesting take on the subject of mutant powers and schools....

http://www.ps238.com/ great comic, i'm gonna have to buy the issues.

[Sir_Spirit]

with mutants
easily solved if you have a specific reaction, happening or even dna sequence that produces the super powers

That makes no sense, mutations, by their very nature and definition, are completly random. So I fail to see how one "x-factor" could be responsible for all mutants as thats not true at all...
The other thing that keeps bugging me is how expensive looking at DNA is. The shear expence of testing every one at say, the Olympics, would not only be enormous, but it would take weeks in not months!
And forget getting DNA screens for every child/baby/criminal....

as for hardwares what? I don't understand how anyone could equate them with mutants. Sure they are brillaint, so what. Are they going to go back and claim that eisntein, newton, hawking are all mutants?

So, you don't think that you could have super-smarts? Just super strength, super speed, super agility, but it would somehow just be abitrarily impossible for some one to have super-smarts? Get real, you think the accusation of "witch" needed any evidence? They didn't.
And why wouldn't someone claim that they are mutants? Can you prove that they weren't? I'm not saying the were, just making a point. But we both know that there would be people who would claim that most of our past heros and saints were mutants. Was Moses a prophet or just a hydrokenetic, etc,etc...(again, IAM NOT SAYING THIS, just making the point that someone would say it)HU2 said actually talked about hits alittle bit, it points out that superhumans have been /appearing/occuring in "waves" throughout history. With the nubers going up and down throught out the ages. There were more around the middle ages, and at the end of the 20th century were at the high end of a wave...

I think that even if they ARE paranoid of mutants it is going to have to be something spectacular like shooting flames out your bumb to be branded a mutant or brought into question about it

Yeah, and just why would that be? Paranoid people aren't known for their rational thought, thats the point of being paranoid, they don't have proof so they just go around making unfounded accusations. People do this all the time IRL with out mutants so why would they magically stop doing this with mutants?

[Iczer]

You can't really win. The best you can do is what our society tries to do now- respect each other and get along the best we can. )

As a young man of Iraqi Descent, I find that statement to be kinda laughable.

Batts

[ZEN]

Really though? Do mutants who shoot lasers out of their eyes have a special organ or something?

Yeah, I'd call that the "Shoot Lasers Organ that used to be normal optical nerves".

What about someone who has APS: Stone? Sure some traits like Claws is going to be detectable, but others? How do we know how it will even work let alone be detectable?

An excellent point, what you are saying is that since we can't know the exact nature of what makes super powers tick, we can't really make assumptions or argue the logistics of them, so this entire thread is really null and void.. which means I really have no need of continuing with th

[Daniel Stoker]

An excellent point, what you are saying is that since we can't know the exact nature of what makes super powers tick, we can't really make assumptions or argue the logistics of them, so this entire thread is really null and void.. which means I really have no need of continuing with th

Well Jaeger was making claims of knowing absolutely how to tell if someone had powers or not, and I'm just trying to bring up the point that we can at best ONLY say maybe we will. From what I remember from Marvel Bruce Banner looks like a normal human on all levels, but he STILL turns into the Hulk a being anything BUT normal.



Daniel Stoker

[ZEN]

On soundoff maybe, I don't see how it can lead to anything good talking about that here.. the terms are too politically loaded.

[Sir_Spirit]

Done (check Sound Off)

[Sir_Spirit]

This may sound stupid, but where is the Sound Off board?

It's not stupid at all. You can't see it on the forum index unless your a member.
To become a member

1)you have to click on "Usergroups" in the top right hand corner of your screen.

2)You then need to click on "view information"

3)click on the subscribe button.

You will have to wait until Prettz let's you in. this may take up to a week, but if it does take longer then just make a Thread about why he/she hasn't let you in yet.
You get an email saying your a member, but you don't have to reply to it.
It will then show up in the Forum Index under Just For Fun, right above Other Games.
P.S. In Prettz defence, I got into Sound Off in less than 24 hours, but of few people have taken longer so that's why I warned you about it.

[Sir_Spirit]

Well come on in, your post count will go way up.

[Daniel Stoker]

Well Jaeger was making claims of knowing absolutely how to tell if someone had powers or not, and I'm just trying to bring up the point that we can at best ONLY say maybe we will. From what I remember from Marvel Bruce Banner looks like a normal human on all levels, but he STILL turns into the Hulk a being anything BUT normal.

Daniel Stoker

There's a power in PU that detects superbeings. Make an invention that detects it or an agent that possessess it (either a Eugenics, supersoldier, government mutant stooge, experiment, etc). THINK MAN (oh, sorry, scratch that, I'm sorry ) THINK!

Yea, because we can make a device that immiates the human brain so easily..... Just because there is a power there is no reason to think we can immitate it. There is also a power to copy yourself instantly violating the laws of conservation of energy and mass too, do you think we can make a device to do that too?



Daniel Stoker

[Daniel Stoker]

Really though? Do mutants who shoot lasers out of their eyes have a special organ or something?
Daniel Stoker

Cyclops does. Observe:

Ability/Mutation: Cyclops possesses the mutant ability to project a beam of concussive, ruby-colored force from his eyes. His eyes, oddly enough, are gateways into another dimension very unlike our own. This universe is filled with particles that resemble photons, yet they interact with this universe's particles by transferring kinetic energy in the form of gravitons (the particle of gravitation). These particles generate great, directional concussive force when they interact with the objects of this universe.

A psionic field that reflects the particles that are emitted from his eyes envelops Cyclops’ mind and body. In turn, even the thin membrane of his eyes lids can reflect and control the blasts that erupt from his eyes. In order to actually use his eyes to see things as other people do, he is required to wear either glasses or a visor made of ruby quartz. The quartz acts in the same manner as his internal psionic field, and reflects the energy back into Scott’s eyes harmlessly. Using the natural focusing ability of his eyes in conjunction with his visor, Cyclops can adjust the height of the particles. The varying sizes of these blasts care a range of power and force.

The extra dimensional supply of energy for Cyclops's eye-blast is practically infinite. Thus, so long as Cyclops's psionic field is active, which it always is, there is the potential to emit energy. The only limit to the eye-blast is the mental fatigue of focusing constantly. After about fifteen minute of constant usage, the psionic field subsides and allows only a slight leakage of energy to pass through the aperture. Cyclops's metabolism will recover sufficiently for him to continue in about an additional fifteen minutes.

--------------------------------

An energy detector will detect him.

And that works for ONE Marvel character. I can point to several, including people like Bobby Drake/Iceman who doesn't have anything like that explaining how he is able to make ice etc. And how does your energy dectetor work to 'detect' energy?



Daniel toker

[Daniel Stoker]

In a world that has Supernatural Strength power, why not Detect Superpowers power?

I never said that power didn't exist, I just questioned the ability to make a machine to do the same thing with 'ease'.



Daniel Stoker

[Daniel Stoker]

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/i/iceman.htm

And remember who created the mutant strain in humans long ago.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/alienrac ... stials.htm

The energy detector? The IR camera here at work would recognize that those eyeballs aren't regular eyeballs.

Uh... the Celestials? And what does that have to do with anything?

And re-read Icemans powers there.

However, the Iceman can mentally override his hypothalamus to allow his body temperature to be lowered by an unknown internal mechanism.

And again, you talked about some sort of 'energy' detector and the method you desecribe would work with ONE mutant. How many detection devices would you have to have around to detect all the different things that MAY be detectable in various mutants. Plus what if it doesn't work like that in whatever universe this is taking place. Hero's doesn't have ANYTHING like that in the rules. You can look at some experiment with Laser eyes all day and you're not going to be able to tell.



Daniel Stoker

[Daniel Stoker]

And re-read Icemans powers there.

However, the Iceman can mentally override his hypothalamus to allow his body temperature to be lowered by an unknown internal mechanism.

Because nobody has operated on his brain yet, particularly the hypothalamus. It WILL be different than a normal human.

Oh it WILL be? Well that doesn't help in detecting now does it?

And again, you talked about some sort of 'energy' detector and the method you desecribe would work with ONE mutant. How many detection devices would you have to have around to detect all the different things that MAY be detectable in various mutants.

It detects heat. A running man gives off more heat than a sedentary man. A sedentary man just twitching his finger is hotter than a man that is not. Fine-tune it and it could detect a hypothalamus working overtime as in Iceman or their entire bodily organs (as in Wolverine; Wolvie's liver, kidneys, heart, etc are all supercharged when repairing, during exertion, fighting off alcohol, etc)

How do you know it could be fine tuned to detect and over working hypothalamus when that is covered by the rest of the brain? And why do you think Wolverines organs are going to give off excess heat when he's healing? We don't see him steaming in the snow when he's been hurt in the comics.....

Plus what if it doesn't work like that in whatever universe this is taking place. Hero's doesn't have ANYTHING like that in the rules. You can look at some experiment with Laser eyes all day and you're not going to be able to tell.

Then he would die when he zaps something for the first time. The human body doesn't have the caloric energy to zap $hit. Oh, and I imagine KS didn't want to hold your hand on how the powers came to be in your game and the physics behind it. I brought in the Celestials as a Duex ex Machina. RW bio-tect in the next hundreds of years will NEVER get us to the point to do most of these superpowers but Space Gods...with the level of knowledge...might could. On a previous discussion about this, I mentioned that superpowers could be a selective form of psionics. A person with supersonic flight is mentally propelling himself that fast, but is incapable, because of the power of belief and disbelief, to propel someone else along with him. Psionics (especially kinesis) could handle a lot of superpowers up to the rearrangement of matter with kinesis (to move the atoms) and clairvoyance (to see the atoms). It's a damn shame that one is closeminded and only believes he's able to change his own body and not his friend's bodies or to turn his old car into a Lamborghini. And if it is psionics, will give off some heat (the making of it ie psionic energy to the presence of it.). But that is speculation because everything else gives off heat in production or movement.

It's a comic book universe? Why on earth would they die? Even Marvels explinatios are a bunch of hookey that means nothing in the real world and if super powers do suddenly appear we're looking at having to completly re-write the laws of physics. And in HU they aren't psionics because those are very different power sets, one powered by ISP, the other powered by... well 'something'. I still don't see what the Celestials have to do with detecting supers though.



Daniel Stoker

[Daniel Stoker]

Because I have talk to the guy who uses the infrared camera. EVERYTHING gives off heat in production & movement. Look at CAT scans of brains while they are thinking about different stuff or are ask to feel about a loved one, an enemy, material item, etc. Different portions of the brain is going off and creating heat in the "active" mode than in the "dormant" mode.

That still doesn't mean you'll be able to tell that the patterns mean he's some sort of mutant unless they all have the same or similiar patterns when they use their powers. And the examples you list all are going to have differnt patterns in different peoples brains. The same GENERAL area may be active for thoughts of loved, but that doesn't mean when Scott shoots someone with his optic blasts it will register the same as when Bobby creates a snowball. And how do you detect it if they aren't using their powers which is what we want to do to keep them 'seperate'?

Exactly, something. It could be ISP. Was it a person who burned out all (or most) of his ISP for one power (or several) to work permanent? But, I consider it lazy writing; something that Palladium has in spades. But, we were also talking about the real world

Actually no, as per Shaded Helios's original post were just talking about a Modern World: 'Basically, I'm looking for how other people have dealt with having super powered beings in a modern world that hasn't really had the time or willingness to integrate them properly.'

That's still not the real world with real world physics etc.

Again, you need to learn to follow threads. The main topic was real world. Real world bio-tech will never allow us to use superpowers as written within the Palladium books. Other outlets have used a Duex ex Machina, as in, the Celestials to create superbeings. RW, I would place my money on varying degrees of bio-tech, material sciences & psionics.

Now, may I recommend google to do your researching into energy detecors.

No it wasn't, take a look above at Helios's original question Jaeger. As to your energy detectors, once again, we don't know what energy these powers would use so what are we going to detect?



Daniel Stoker

[PigLickJF]

Off the detectors for a moment someone commented on whether some people would argue it is unfair to discriminate against mutants in sports. In the real world there are sterile women who possess a XY, XXX or XXY cromosome meaning that chemicaly male or just not chemically normal. They are not allowed in women's sports. These are real people in the case of the XY they look normal and are not proven to have any inharent advantage over normal XX chromosone women. At least on has actually been stripped of a gold medal. There is no public outcry.

Actually, if I remember correctly, there was some outcry/controversy when the subject of karyotyping (ie determining the "genetic gender") Olympic athletes was introduced. I don't know the specifics or anything about anyone losing medals, and i don't even know how they handle this currently. It's true there wasn't much of an issue made, but there was some.

That being said though, the difference between a person with superpowers and one without is much more drastic than the differnce between men and women, so it would be a much bigger issue.

PigLick