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Killer Cyborg wrote:Oh, definitely.
But I shouldn't have to house-rule it.

This is Palladium, house-rules are a given.

Killer Cyborg wrote:NA didn't come out the best. The NGR did.
But I wasn't talking "outside of the US," I was talking about within the US as well.
Most of Rifts Earth should be untamed wilderness, with pockets of civilization here or there.

That depends on what you consider "the best". The NGR has problems that NA doesn't really have to contend with, which IMHO means they did not necessarily come out as the "the best" in the long run (maybe the short run, but not the long run).

That is what we see though in terms of wilderness/civilization ratio. Its just the focus on the books is those "pockets of civilization here or there" and some minor stuff for the wilderness.

Blue_Lion wrote:I made no such suggestion, I pointed out a blanket statement zer0 Kay made that you clump world books in threes and make them new dimensions does not quite work.

"So just make it a new world instead of some place me and my PC do not want to go on earth to begin with then if that new world is popular it can get more books to flesh it out like phase world."-Blue_Lion.

Basically what you are saying is to take the World Book and make it into a Dimension Book. Context is a bit different as you are taking about future products, but it can certainly apply to using existing products. Which is why I said "(basically)".

Curbludgeon wrote:This would make the list of depicted dimension Rifts Earth, Wormwood, Phase World, dyval, Hades, Palladium, Splicers, Chaos Earth (the last two arguably), and what else?

Rifts Earth
Chaos Earth (time travel)
Wormwood
Phaseworld
Splicers
Dyval
Hades
Palladium
OTHER SDC lines (Heroes Unlimited, Ninjas and Super Spies, After the Bomb, Nightbane, Dead Reign, Mechanoids, etc)
Licensed Products that they don't have the license to (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, TWO editions of Robotech, Macross II, and Manhunter)

IIRC at least one of the Rifters has a Dimensional World in it (an early one), and both World Books for the Federation of Magic and Psycape have parts that place cities in other dimensions. Some of the D-Bees have some information on their home dimension in their writeups (Vernulian for example), but for the most part aren't as fleshed out as the previous examples.

I would also like to note that the antartica book actually covers most of the obvious questions being asked in pretty logical ways. It is really good I recommend picking it up or picking up the finished book when it is out.

One last hint for building materials yes MDC stuff lasts for a long time but when you are in the antarctic when you have that cold of an environment you can make the cold work for you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pykrete there is vegetation in parts of antarctica albeit alien types and there is ice so strong building materials to expand or build out of are very easy to come by.

kaid wrote:I would also like to note that the antartica book actually covers most of the obvious questions being asked in pretty logical ways. It is really good I recommend picking it up or picking up the finished book when it is out.

One last hint for building materials yes MDC stuff lasts for a long time but when you are in the antarctic when you have that cold of an environment you can make the cold work for you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pykrete there is vegetation in parts of antarctica albeit alien types and there is ice so strong building materials to expand or build out of are very easy to come by.

Ice base Hoth, anyone?

Thanks for the list, ShadowLogan! Primorder was depicted in Rifter 3. I reckon if someone were to go through and compile a list of dbees' home dimensions (and perhaps more interestingly, which come from the same dimension) I'd owe 'em a coke!

kaid wrote:I don't want to get all spoilery but in the golden age humans were starting to colonize space as shown by mutans in orbit. Where would be an excellent place to test long term enclosed habitations that may have to grow their own food and be self sustaining?

Underwater.

ShadowLogan wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Oh, definitely.
But I shouldn't have to house-rule it.

This is Palladium, house-rules are a given.

As are complaints.

Killer Cyborg wrote:NA didn't come out the best. The NGR did.
But I wasn't talking "outside of the US," I was talking about within the US as well.
Most of Rifts Earth should be untamed wilderness, with pockets of civilization here or there.

That depends on what you consider "the best".

Indeed.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Oh, definitely.
But I shouldn't have to house-rule it.

This is Palladium, house-rules are a given.

As are complaints.

Killer Cyborg wrote:NA didn't come out the best. The NGR did.
But I wasn't talking "outside of the US," I was talking about within the US as well.
Most of Rifts Earth should be untamed wilderness, with pockets of civilization here or there.

That depends on what you consider "the best".

Indeed.

So is 3.5 communities in AK okay?

From what i hear ...
Antarctica was written with Canada in mind.
Beavers, deer, wolves, etc. Rivers, lakes, beaver dams.
No real research done on Antarctica itself
Antarctic Jungles cover 40% or more if the landmass.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Proseksword wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:.....this one tends to hit one of my pet peeves anyway: World Books set in places that I don't care about, and my adventurers wouldn't have any interest in.

Feel free to sell me on it, if you like; I'm trying to be open-minded.
Why would I care?
Why would my characters care?
What's this place got that no other place has?

On the other hand, I LOVE new settings, because I feel like traveling across an endless Megaverse via RIFTs is, well, the focus of the game!

I agree: travelling across an endless Megaverse via Rifts should be the focus of the game.
But this isn't that.
This is yet another WORLDbook about a place on Rifts Earth that should probably be desolate wastelands if the "apocalypse" really lived up to its name.
There's an infinity of universes and worlds that can be and should be explored... and Palladium keeps cranking out books about places on this one planet.
The game is literally about interdimensional portals, and we've only got 15 Dimension books that cover a small handful of dimensions, compared to 31+ World books, 17 Sourcebooks, and countless other kinds of books that are all focused on slowly detailing every square inch of Rifts Earth (except for important stuff like Chi-Town).

New settings are great.
Dimensional travel is great.
If this was "World Book 45: Ice Planet Zebra," I'd be good with it. I'd be intrigued, and I'd be scrounging for money to buy it.
But it's not that.
It's yet another "in a literally infinite multiverse, let's explore places on the same old planet, particularly ones that you've never really cared about."

(Yes, some people have occasionally cared about Antarctica. I just have no idea why. Especially in the context of a game where it would be more fun and make more sense to create an entirely new world or dimension to explore.)

(Bah Humbug! )

Agreed.
More Dimension Books for Rifts are needed, not worldbooks...

I've turned to Phase World and use all the books for actual Worlds to visit
The coalition systems (cs) are a group/collective of worlds that are anti-Alien (non humans)
I use Splicers too. The Machine controls several systems and many worlds. Technology rules the day. Robits, Cyborgs, TJs. Splicers Biotechnology exists too, these "Splicers" worlds are at war with The Machine worlds. These Splicers use Biotechnology & Biomancy. In fact, these two ideologies are at war with each other too.

I have it and for much of it I have to ask "but WHY?"
Why invent a brand new school of magic for ice and cold... when there is already a school of cold magic?
This sets aside the fact that so much of the book is obviously just a hasty reskin of Rifts: Alaska
I have a sinking suspicion that this is going to be one of those books that divides the community more than it helps. Many GMs are going to look at a lot of the stuff in here, snicker and say "not in my game" which will result in people that want those toys feeling hurt. Arguments will rage on if they are balanced, or fair, or reasonable. With out violating the NDA I think I can say that most of the tech here is in the vein of the laser bow.

I will buy the book, because I buy everything. But I am not looking forward to it.

Oooh, boy! Moose cavalry ahoy!

eliakon wrote:I have it and for much of it I have to ask "but WHY?"
Why invent a brand new school of magic for ice and cold... when there is already a school of cold magic?
This sets aside the fact that so much of the book is obviously just a hasty reskin of Rifts: Alaska
I have a sinking suspicion that this is going to be one of those books that divides the community more than it helps. Many GMs are going to look at a lot of the stuff in here, snicker and say "not in my game" which will result in people that want those toys feeling hurt. Arguments will rage on if they are balanced, or fair, or reasonable. With out violating the NDA I think I can say that most of the tech here is in the vein of the laser bow.

I hate when things live down to my expectations.

I will buy the book, because I buy everything. But I am not looking forward to it.

Yeah, I'll probably get it eventually as well.
But I won't be in any hurry.

kaid wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:.....this one tends to hit one of my pet peeves anyway: World Books set in places that I don't care about, and my adventurers wouldn't have any interest in...

Not to give to much away but much of it is still icy wilderness but with nexus opening since the cataclysm for all the DBees who came in and died off shortly there after there were some that opened to worlds with cold adapted life forms and so there are areas that have vegetation and support an ecosystem but a very alien one. I don't want to give to much away but there are some settlements some descendants of the golden age research facilities. The upside in living in an ice blasted wilderness is a lot of the stuff other parts of world had to deal with just could not survive the conditions in antarctica long enough to be a problem. There is a front for the minion war that is very interesting and the splugorth are gonna splugorth.

Well, that's a very sensible way to approach it and much better than having a tropical rain forest thanks to magic™ and golden-age tech™. I have to say that Rifts Greenland would've been more interesting than Antarctica or Alaska and was laughable on its face at the time it was suggested. Chitown, Lazlo, and Land of the Damned 3 should've been books ages ago; any of India, the Middle East, Tibet, Mongolia, Indochina, Subsaharan Africa, Scandinavia, Italy, Greece, Turkey, California, Iberia would've been more interesting than this to me and probably the majority of players.

That said, ok, if it's very well done it can be a sourcebook for both ice caps, Russia, and Canada. The "golden age research facilities" are very played out but the ideas of alien lifeforms turning icy wastes into a land of rainforest-like abundance of bizarre life and food is pretty rad, along with the implications for more the important North Pole.

@OP: If you're really planning on a book, don't do just Alaska. Do the Inuit and friends and the entire northern wastes from Siberia east to Alaska, Northern Canada, and Greenland. Or do your Rifters articles and partner with someone else who can help you fit out the Northern Wastes. That's a book people would actually buy. You'll need to make your work compatible with the already nearly published Antarctica rules, though, rather than going your own way with it.

llywelyn wrote:

kaid wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:.....this one tends to hit one of my pet peeves anyway: World Books set in places that I don't care about, and my adventurers wouldn't have any interest in...

Not to give to much away but much of it is still icy wilderness but with nexus opening since the cataclysm for all the DBees who came in and died off shortly there after there were some that opened to worlds with cold adapted life forms and so there are areas that have vegetation and support an ecosystem but a very alien one. I don't want to give to much away but there are some settlements some descendants of the golden age research facilities. The upside in living in an ice blasted wilderness is a lot of the stuff other parts of world had to deal with just could not survive the conditions in antarctica long enough to be a problem. There is a front for the minion war that is very interesting and the splugorth are gonna splugorth.

Well, that's a very sensible way to approach it and much better than having a tropical rain forest thanks to magic™ and golden-age tech™. I have to say that Rifts Greenland would've been more interesting than Antarctica or Alaska and was laughable on its face at the time it was suggested. Chitown, Lazlo, and Land of the Damned 3 should've been books ages ago; any of India, the Middle East, Tibet, Mongolia, Indochina, Subsaharan Africa, Scandinavia, Italy, Greece, Turkey, California, Iberia would've been more interesting than this to me and probably the majority of players.

That said, ok, if it's very well done it can be a sourcebook for both ice caps, Russia, and Canada. The "golden age research facilities" are very played out but the ideas of alien lifeforms turning icy wastes into a land of rainforest-like abundance of bizarre life and food is pretty rad, along with the implications for more the important North Pole.

@OP: If you're really planning on a book, don't do just Alaska. Do the Inuit and friends and the entire northern wastes from Siberia east to Alaska, Northern Canada, and Greenland. Or do your Rifters articles and partner with someone else who can help you fit out the Northern Wastes. That's a book people would actually buy. You'll need to make your work compatible with the already nearly published Antarctica rules, though, rather than going your own way with it.

1. That area is too large.
2. I'm not doing Northern Canada and Siberia as the tribes like being called different things most detest Eskimo while the Yupik of Alaska prefer it.
3. Your entitled to your opinion. I think people would buy Alyeska

Proseksword wrote:Oooh, boy! Moose cavalry ahoy!

No, no moose cavalry... sabertooth moose cavalry!!

Killer Cyborg wrote:

kaid wrote:there are some settlements some descendants of the golden age research facilities.

But of course there are.

Are they inbred cannibal mutants?
Because it isn't like there were enough people for a sustainable diversity in genetics.

Vrykolas2k wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

kaid wrote:there are some settlements some descendants of the golden age research facilities.

But of course there are.

Are they inbred cannibal mutants?
Because it isn't like there were enough people for a sustainable diversity in genetics.

Why? Science says with good genetics a group of of like 42 can survive well for a 100 year space mission.

In that Rifts: Arctic is a pipe dream, I'd very much like it if Antarctica contained some Hollow Earth themes. Via a rift presumably near the South Pole, parties could enter a Pelliucidar-style world. Since dinosaurs are already present in the SE USA, maybe the area could focus on Permian-era giant insects. I'm kinda digging the visual of someone stripping off their coat while ducking the attacks of a dive-bombing Beetalian astride a giant dragonfly.

While I sorta liked the Rifter articles presenting the Kezel, I've yet to see any suggestions for Alaska that were worth a hoot.

Curbludgeon wrote:In that Rifts: Arctic is a pipe dream, I'd very much like it if Antarctica contained some Hollow Earth themes. Via a rift presumably near the South Pole, parties could enter a Pelliucidar-style world. Since dinosaurs are already present in the SE USA, maybe the area could focus on Permian-era giant insects. I'm kinda digging the visual of someone stripping off their coat while ducking the attacks of a dive-bombing Beetalian astride a giant dragonfly.

While I sorta liked the Rifter articles presenting the Kezel, I've yet to see any suggestions for Alaska that were worth a hoot.

That would have been awesome and maybe some Mountains of Madness too.

You thinking straight non-sentient insects? I'm thinking something like Bug Splycers on a larger scale of construction like Dunbine. Either a sentient race of insects are the pilots or they are a sentient race of insects that can accept pilots and they have a baseline of stats and when they're piloted it "unlocks" other abilities.

But seeing as how there are many things that make a hollow earth impossible the gateway really leads to a pocket dimension and is only accessible through certain "caves".

that would have been better than what we got. a 'hollow earth' linked dimension approach could let you put in stuff to do while leaving the continent itself glaciated and empty.

glitterboy2098 wrote:that would have been better than what we got. a 'hollow earth' linked dimension approach could let you put in stuff to do while leaving the continent itself glaciated and empty.

Does it matter if it is empty or not and writing a book for Antarctica that simply states there is a hollow earth linked dimension is pretty bland... unless your saying the hollow earth dimension is the actual book. In that case I'd still like a Mountains Of Madness thing going on too. And a little kindom under the ice to fill all the Antarctica mythologies I like.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Proseksword wrote:Oooh, boy! Moose cavalry ahoy!

No, no moose cavalry... sabertooth moose cavalry!!

Actually there ARE quite a few references to riding the giant deer.

No. I'm not kidding.

Vrykolas2k wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

kaid wrote:there are some settlements some descendants of the golden age research facilities.

But of course there are.

Are they inbred cannibal mutants?
Because it isn't like there were enough people for a sustainable diversity in genetics.

There were 35,000 people in the one base at the start.

Curbludgeon wrote:In that Rifts: Arctic is a pipe dream, I'd very much like it if Antarctica contained some Hollow Earth themes. Via a rift presumably near the South Pole, parties could enter a Pelliucidar-style world. Since dinosaurs are already present in the SE USA, maybe the area could focus on Permian-era giant insects. I'm kinda digging the visual of someone stripping off their coat while ducking the attacks of a dive-bombing Beetalian astride a giant dragonfly.

While I sorta liked the Rifter articles presenting the Kezel, I've yet to see any suggestions for Alaska that were worth a hoot.

There are wasps the size of dragons with supernatural strength.

AND a new 'Bug threat' but in this case they're 9 foot tall furry white lobsters that attack in swarms.

Again. Not kidding.

ShadowLogan wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Oh, definitely.
But I shouldn't have to house-rule it.

This is Palladium, house-rules are a given.

Killer Cyborg wrote:NA didn't come out the best. The NGR did.
But I wasn't talking "outside of the US," I was talking about within the US as well.
Most of Rifts Earth should be untamed wilderness, with pockets of civilization here or there.

That depends on what you consider "the best". The NGR has problems that NA doesn't really have to contend with, which IMHO means they did not necessarily come out as the "the best" in the long run (maybe the short run, but not the long run).

That is what we see though in terms of wilderness/civilization ratio. Its just the focus on the books is those "pockets of civilization here or there" and some minor stuff for the wilderness.

Blue_Lion wrote:I made no such suggestion, I pointed out a blanket statement zer0 Kay made that you clump world books in threes and make them new dimensions does not quite work.

"So just make it a new world instead of some place me and my PC do not want to go on earth to begin with then if that new world is popular it can get more books to flesh it out like phase world."-Blue_Lion.

Basically what you are saying is to take the World Book and make it into a Dimension Book. Context is a bit different as you are taking about future products, but it can certainly apply to using existing products. Which is why I said "(basically)".

Curbludgeon wrote:This would make the list of depicted dimension Rifts Earth, Wormwood, Phase World, dyval, Hades, Palladium, Splicers, Chaos Earth (the last two arguably), and what else?

Rifts Earth
Chaos Earth (time travel)
Wormwood
Phaseworld
Splicers
Dyval
Hades
Palladium
OTHER SDC lines (Heroes Unlimited, Ninjas and Super Spies, After the Bomb, Nightbane, Dead Reign, Mechanoids, etc)
Licensed Products that they don't have the license to (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, TWO editions of Robotech, Macross II, and Manhunter)

IIRC at least one of the Rifters has a Dimensional World in it (an early one), and both World Books for the Federation of Magic and Psycape have parts that place cities in other dimensions. Some of the D-Bees have some information on their home dimension in their writeups (Vernulian for example), but for the most part aren't as fleshed out as the previous examples.

No what I was saying is spend time making dimension books and not waste time and resources on isolated spots on rifts earth. I never said treat world books as dimension but I would prefer dimension books after all, dimension hopping is the core ability of a core class. But more time is spent fleshing out, out of way parts of earth than new dimensions for people to explore.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Proseksword wrote:Oooh, boy! Moose cavalry ahoy!

No, no moose cavalry... sabertooth moose cavalry!!

Actually there ARE quite a few references to riding the giant deer.

No. I'm not kidding.

I KNEW it!

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Vrykolas2k wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

kaid wrote:there are some settlements some descendants of the golden age research facilities.

But of course there are.

Are they inbred cannibal mutants?
Because it isn't like there were enough people for a sustainable diversity in genetics.

There were 35,000 people in the one base at the start.

That's jaw-dropping stupid.

Vrykolas2k wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Vrykolas2k wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

kaid wrote:there are some settlements some descendants of the golden age research facilities.

But of course there are.

Are they inbred cannibal mutants?
Because it isn't like there were enough people for a sustainable diversity in genetics.

There were 35,000 people in the one base at the start.

That's jaw-dropping stupid.

That is because originally it was Fort Wainwright Alaska and not McMurdo or what ever.
Like we said. This is a reskin of the old Rifts: Alaska netbook with elements of Canada2.

What happened to Rifts: Alaska?

Hotrod wrote:What happened to Rifts: Alaska?

Obviously it became the Antarctica book.

Hotrod wrote:What happened to Rifts: Alaska?

They reskinned it, added some bizarre magic to make combat snowmen golem soldiers for dirt cheap in with their new ice magic (guess someone really liked Frozen) and called it a day.

Seriously this is like the laziest book ever and makes Sovietski, Australia and Spirit West look like masterpieces of game design.

Hotrod wrote:What happened to Rifts: Alaska?

Which Rifts Alaska?
I'm trying to write one, which is why I posted this topic because one of the concepts seemed close to one of mine and I wanted to find out. BTW, it is in name only.

eliakon wrote:

Hotrod wrote:What happened to Rifts: Alaska?

They reskinned it, added some bizarre magic to make combat snowmen golem soldiers for dirt cheap in with their new ice magic (guess someone really liked Frozen) and called it a day.

Seriously this is like the laziest book ever and makes Sovietski, Australia and Spirit West look like masterpieces of game design.

The cold never bothered me anyway?

The Beast wrote:

Hotrod wrote:What happened to Rifts: Alaska?

Obviously it became the Antarctica book.

Well thank goodness then because that still leave AK open for meeeeeeee

Zer0 Kay wrote:

The Beast wrote:

Hotrod wrote:What happened to Rifts: Alaska?

Obviously it became the Antarctica book.

Well thank goodness then because that still leave AK open for meeeeeeee

Think they where referring to a net book work of fan fiction.

Blue_Lion wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

The Beast wrote:

Hotrod wrote:What happened to Rifts: Alaska?

Obviously it became the Antarctica book.

Well thank goodness then because that still leave AK open for meeeeeeee

Think they where referring to a net book work of fan fiction.

And yet I can still say...Well thank goodness then because that still leave AK open for meeeeeeee

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

The Beast wrote:

Hotrod wrote:What happened to Rifts: Alaska?

Obviously it became the Antarctica book.

Well thank goodness then because that still leave AK open for meeeeeeee

Think they where referring to a net book work of fan fiction.

And yet I can still say...Well thank goodness then because that still leave AK open for meeeeeeee

Possibly.
They may be killing the desire for any additional 'cold based' books with the silliness in this one.
Especially since any future Authors will get to deal with all the silliness that this introduces as being part of the cold (the absurd new cold magic, new cold rules, new rules about ice, et multiple cetera)

Honestly I say do a dimension book with your ideas. Why limit yourself to some back waters part of Rifts earth when you can create a new world.

Blue_Lion wrote:Honestly I say do a dimension book with your ideas. Why limit yourself to some back waters part of Rifts earth when you can create a new world.

Because I spent 30 years of my life in Alaska and my ideas deal with things that are from Alaska and things mentioned to be in Alaska and things dealing with Rifts Earth. But there are links to unmentioned aliens and to a PFRPG dragon also.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:Honestly I say do a dimension book with your ideas. Why limit yourself to some back waters part of Rifts earth when you can create a new world.

Because I spent 30 years of my life in Alaska and my ideas deal with things that are from Alaska and things mentioned to be in Alaska and things dealing with Rifts Earth. But there are links to unmentioned aliens and to a PFRPG dragon also.

then you are unlikely to get my money.

Blue_Lion wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:Honestly I say do a dimension book with your ideas. Why limit yourself to some back waters part of Rifts earth when you can create a new world.

Because I spent 30 years of my life in Alaska and my ideas deal with things that are from Alaska and things mentioned to be in Alaska and things dealing with Rifts Earth. But there are links to unmentioned aliens and to a PFRPG dragon also.

then you are unlikely to get my money.

And that is your choice. I'm writing this because I want to see it not because I want money. Are you saying you'd rather have a person sell out then do what they want?

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:Honestly I say do a dimension book with your ideas. Why limit yourself to some back waters part of Rifts earth when you can create a new world.

Because I spent 30 years of my life in Alaska and my ideas deal with things that are from Alaska and things mentioned to be in Alaska and things dealing with Rifts Earth. But there are links to unmentioned aliens and to a PFRPG dragon also.

then you are unlikely to get my money.

And that is your choice. I'm writing this because I want to see it not because I want money. Are you saying you'd rather have a person sell out then do what they want?

Honestly rifts has a whole megaversse to explore and people get so hung up on writting books for every nook and crany of one planet rather than creating a dimenstional explorational story arc. But out of the way world books are not that useful over all.

I am not saying don't do Alaska I am saying create a new dimension. Add to the megaverse not just rifts earth do not limit yourself.

But in the end what you do is up to.
I like you and would like to be able to suport you in your creative endevors, so do not like the idea of you puting in the work for something I will not likly to support, you should get paid for all your work in creating something to get published. (I like most people I chat with here even the ones I disagree with.)

My problem with the tendency to World Book the world to death is that there are quickly no frontiers.
Its getting to the point where I have to pick what canon I want to chuck out (and then figure out what all the ripple on effects of that are) if I want to do anything other than play in other peoples sand boxes and use their tightly scripted ideas. Which as a GM I loathe. I want to be able to tell my own stories not play 'mother may I' with some author and their idea of what's cool. If I wanted it all spoon fed to me I would have kept playing AD&D with its endless modules and detailed worlds that have everything set up and locked down.

I used to run my games out in the New West...
...and then New West, and Spirit West, and Arzno and Black Market nailed that down pretty hard.

Its to the point now where I have to basically make up a new Rifts Earth for my players to play in if I want there to be the slightest shred of originality or chance of surprise. There is a reason that for the last few years almost every game I have run has been set in other dimensions... at least there I dont have to deal with the entire setting mapped out to a fare the well. Where it is basically a fully functional world with not a wiff of Post Apocalypse to it at all. (seriously, air lines, international trade, mail order delivery...give me a break)

All I know is that the more I hear about what's going to be in this book, the more it sounds like it'll be worse than Shadows of Light.

The Beast wrote:All I know is that the more I hear about what's going to be in this book, the more it sounds like it'll be worse than Shadows of Light.

The preview so far puts it smack in the middle of my list of 'worst books published by palladium'
From least bad to worst:

Arzno (come on try to actually be consistent with published material)
Merctown (utter retcon)
Shadows of Light
Sovietski (huh??? rules)
Antarctica
Triax (Racism)
Australia (more racism)
Africa (and yet more racism)
Spirit West (major racism)
Pantheons of the Megaverse (the hypocrisy of 'lets be tactful with western religion...but make a mockery of the third largest religion on Earth)

Blue_Lion wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:Honestly I say do a dimension book with your ideas. Why limit yourself to some back waters part of Rifts earth when you can create a new world.

Because I spent 30 years of my life in Alaska and my ideas deal with things that are from Alaska and things mentioned to be in Alaska and things dealing with Rifts Earth. But there are links to unmentioned aliens and to a PFRPG dragon also.

then you are unlikely to get my money.

And that is your choice. I'm writing this because I want to see it not because I want money. Are you saying you'd rather have a person sell out then do what they want?

Honestly rifts has a whole megaversse to explore and people get so hung up on writting books for every nook and crany of one planet rather than creating a dimenstional explorational story arc. But out of the way world books are not that useful over all.

I am not saying don't do Alaska I am saying create a new dimension. Add to the megaverse not just rifts earth do not limit yourself.

But in the end what you do is up to.
I like you and would like to be able to suport you in your creative endevors, so do not like the idea of you puting in the work for something I will not likly to support, you should get paid for all your work in creating something to get published. (I like most people I chat with here even the ones I disagree with.)

Oh.. I'd love to write more but I've been working on Alaska since before 2009.

Rather than a different dimension I'm thinking the same one Rifts is in... in another galaxy. A real Rifts space but not necessarily Rifts space.

eliakon wrote:

The Beast wrote:All I know is that the more I hear about what's going to be in this book, the more it sounds like it'll be worse than Shadows of Light.

The preview so far puts it smack in the middle of my list of 'worst books published by palladium'
From least bad to worst:

Arzno (come on try to actually be consistent with published material)
Merctown (utter retcon)
Shadows of Light
Sovietski (huh??? rules)
Antarctica
Triax (Racism)
Australia (more racism)
Africa (and yet more racism)
Spirit West (major racism)
Pantheons of the Megaverse (the hypocrisy of 'lets be tactful with western religion...but make a mockery of the third largest religion on Earth)

Your racism-based objections to some of the published Rifts books are interesting.

Racism implies a belief in intrinsic superiority or inferiority based on race. In a literal sense, Rifts is a racist game; Racial Character Classes are an intrinsic part of the game, and R.C.C.'s can be specific to genetic variants of human beings. True Atlanteans are objectively superior to normal humans, as are Amazons, ogres, demigods, Naga Spawn, Psi-Stalkers, and a variety of other fictional human variants presented in canon. These portrayals generally don't offend because they are fictional races, not contemporary ones.

Is racism against real-life races a problem in Rifts? That's a complicated question, because race is often conflated with culture. Certainly, there are O.C.C.'s intended for cultures dominated by a specific race, but those O.C.C.'s remain O.C.C.'s. There's nothing stopping a black African from becoming a borg, and there's nothing stopping a white person from taking the Rain Maker O.C.C. In a strict sense, I find it difficult to find explicit or implicit racism for or against real-life races in Rifts published canon.

What I see in the books you portray as racist are supernaturally and technologically empowered stereotypes of culture and history. I can understand and respect someone finding such portrayals offensive or culturally insensitive. However, cultural insensitivity isn't necessarily racism. I fundamentally disagree with the labels you're putting on those books.

That said, I actually agree with your assessment of that content's worth, but my objections have nothing to do with racism. The Rifts setting is at its strongest when it twists the world we know in unexpected directions. Turning the U.S. into an anti-intellectual totalitarian regime while challenging the idea that such a power is intrinsically evil is a bold move that provokes a lot of thought in the reader. Conversely, the Rifts setting is weakest when it takes a cultural or historical stereotype and makes it magic/MDC; I regard such moves as creatively lazy and uninspired. Thus, I love Vampire Kingdoms, Atlantis, the NGR sections of Triax, Warlords of Russia, most of the Coalition-centric books, and Underseas. I don't care for the gypsies of Triax or most of the books on Africa, New West, Spirit West, or Japan. When I mentioned how much I didn't want to see March of the Penguins with MDC in this book, I wasn't entirely kidding.

All that said, my least favorite sourcebook is Mutants in Orbit, a book I find illogical, internally inconsistent, irrelevant to the setting, and useless for the purposes of gaming in orbit or on Earth.

eliakon wrote:

Hotrod wrote:What happened to Rifts: Alaska?

They reskinned it, added some bizarre magic to make combat snowmen golem soldiers for dirt cheap in with their new ice magic (guess someone really liked Frozen) and called it a day.

Seriously this is like the laziest book ever and makes Sovietski, Australia and Spirit West look like masterpieces of game design.

The combat snowmen are really expensive.

Just written to be very very very common. They cost like half a million.

Hotrod wrote:

eliakon wrote:

The Beast wrote:All I know is that the more I hear about what's going to be in this book, the more it sounds like it'll be worse than Shadows of Light.

The preview so far puts it smack in the middle of my list of 'worst books published by palladium'
From least bad to worst:

Arzno (come on try to actually be consistent with published material)
Merctown (utter retcon)
Shadows of Light
Sovietski (huh??? rules)
Antarctica
Triax (Racism)
Australia (more racism)
Africa (and yet more racism)
Spirit West (major racism)
Pantheons of the Megaverse (the hypocrisy of 'lets be tactful with western religion...but make a mockery of the third largest religion on Earth)

Your racism-based objections to some of the published Rifts books are interesting.

Racism implies a belief in intrinsic superiority or inferiority based on race. In a literal sense, Rifts is a racist game; Racial Character Classes are an intrinsic part of the game, and R.C.C.'s can be specific to genetic variants of human beings. True Atlanteans are objectively superior to normal humans, as are Amazons, ogres, demigods, Naga Spawn, Psi-Stalkers, and a variety of other fictional human variants presented in canon. These portrayals generally don't offend because they are fictional races, not contemporary ones.

Is racism against real-life races a problem in Rifts? That's a complicated question, because race is often conflated with culture. Certainly, there are O.C.C.'s intended for cultures dominated by a specific race, but those O.C.C.'s remain O.C.C.'s. There's nothing stopping a black African from becoming a borg, and there's nothing stopping a white person from taking the Rain Maker O.C.C. In a strict sense, I find it difficult to find explicit or implicit racism for or against real-life races in Rifts published canon.

What I see in the books you portray as racist are supernaturally and technologically empowered stereotypes of culture and history. I can understand and respect someone finding such portrayals offensive or culturally insensitive. However, cultural insensitivity isn't necessarily racism. I fundamentally disagree with the labels you're putting on those books.

That said, I actually agree with your assessment of that content's worth, but my objections have nothing to do with racism. The Rifts setting is at its strongest when it twists the world we know in unexpected directions. Turning the U.S. into an anti-intellectual totalitarian regime while challenging the idea that such a power is intrinsically evil is a bold move that provokes a lot of thought in the reader. Conversely, the Rifts setting is weakest when it takes a cultural or historical stereotype and makes it magic/MDC; I regard such moves as creatively lazy and uninspired. Thus, I love Vampire Kingdoms, Atlantis, the NGR sections of Triax, Warlords of Russia, most of the Coalition-centric books, and Underseas. I don't care for the gypsies of Triax or most of the books on Africa, New West, Spirit West, or Japan. When I mentioned how much I didn't want to see March of the Penguins with MDC in this book, I wasn't entirely kidding.

All that said, my least favorite sourcebook is Mutants in Orbit, a book I find illogical, internally inconsistent, irrelevant to the setting, and useless for the purposes of gaming in orbit or on Earth.

The exaggerated stereotypes are racist. That is quite literally one of the definitions of racism.
Pigeonholing people as "well all Africans are primitives who prefer to live in huts and have witch doctors and need White Men <tm> to come save them in their hour of need" is pretty racist. So is the entire "noble savage" thing that they do in Spirit West where the Native American's are made to be a separate sub-species of humanity that is genetically programed to seek to work at 1800s levels of technology... Ick totally racist.

There are a lot of kinds of 'inferiority' and 'superiority' that come into play in the books. These books in particular though are bad in that they take specific negative stereotypes and say that these are not stereotypes but are, in fact the defining features of the culture or race. That is pretty blatantly racist.
If a Rifts book said that Jews were greedy money changers because they were Jews everyone would be screaming about the anti-Semitism and racism of the book. But its perfectly fine to portray the Romany people as lazy thieves.

I don't have an issue with the Coalition because it is not saying that humans are inherently nazis. Or even that American's are inherently Nazis. But that a specific group of people can become Nazis. Which is not racist in the least. That is a far cry though from saying that all Romani are thieves or all Native Americans are mystically "Noble Savages" or that all Africans are incapable of being technological with out the aid of White Men or any of the other racist crap these books are full of.

As for Mutants in Orbit... it used to be on the list, but as the list is only my top ten worst books it got bumped to make room for Antartica

Where does the west series say that? There is the modern and the traditional. Isn't saying that all people of all cultures will inherently pull away from village lifestyles and traditions racist as well? What makes your cities and modern culture better than an indigenous culture?

And please they are obviously not using Gypsy as Romani but as alternate definitions, which exist, as half arent even human and the other half are labeled as human not specifically Romani.

Where'd it say it in Africa that they needed white men to save them? Also where it say that all Africans live in huts? Any human character can be black making CS troop, Northern Gun engineers or any other human available OCC possibly black or brown or any other skin color. So again why would the villages in Africa which have remained villages up through the 21st century become metropolises or even small towns? Again expecting them to change their culture is racism too. Rifts has both the tribe and the tech and some tribes with tech.