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Just curious but what are the occ in chaos earth.

Mostly standard military stuff (SF, PA pilots, Glitter Boy pilot, etc) with a Para-arcane and Witch Hunter. One of the source books has magic OCCs as well.

I think this was my biggest problem with Chaos Earth. None of the OCCs really pop as being different or interesting.

The Chaos Earth OCCs are a mix of basic military types. Several classes can be built as partial borgs, but the rules are in Rifts. Low level psychics are doable, but again, you need Rifts. Same with Golden Age Juicers, Crazies, and similar.

I don't know about everyone else who likes CE, but I know I've added tons of stuff from Rifts to make the game semi-complete. For example, I have the JAEP/Euro-Juicer system(Triax 1) being common with CE special forces. The Cyber Humaniod (Bionics SB) is an option instead of Partial Borgs for certain starting classes in my CE games. Over the years I've also tweaked a few skills here and there, for example I've added Pilot Automobile, and Computer Operation to most classes if they didn't have it to start.

RockJock wrote:The Chaos Earth OCCs are a mix of basic military types.

Not anyMORE!!!

Jason Richards wrote:

RockJock wrote:The Chaos Earth OCCs are a mix of basic military types.

Not anyMORE!!!

I just received my Raw Preview Surviving Chaos Earth so I haven't had a chance to read it all yet. I do like the Survivalist OCC but it seems that the Lazlo Society has become bad guys which I really don't like. There was no indication of this in any previous works and I have been using them as heroes of the apocalypse, scholars who used there knowledge of the occult to soldiers and survivors, since before CE even came out.

This is in fact what I think CE still needs for an OCC, a Giles (Buffy the Vampire Slayer). A person who had been studying lore and history, maybe even collecting mystical items that before the rifts did very little but with the coming of magic are actually useful. This could be similar to the Demon Hunter in Heroes Unlimted and would be almost an occult version of a prepper OCC.

I like the new first responder OCC's but again not really sure how many players want to play a civilian first responder in a game like this. The NEMA first responder OCCs are interesting and they all seem to have some special skills and abilities that make them interesting and unique.

Warshield73 wrote:I just received my Raw Preview Surviving Chaos Earth so I haven't had a chance to read it all yet. I do like the Survivalist OCC but it seems that the Lazlo Society has become bad guys which I really don't like. There was no indication of this in any previous works and I have been using them as heroes of the apocalypse, scholars who used there knowledge of the occult to soldiers and survivors, since before CE even came out.

I haven't had a chance to read it myself just yet, but it may just be that the society has a different viewpoint about the cataclysm and how to respond to it than NEMA does, resulting in the two clashing where their approaches meet to head to head.

This is in fact what I think CE still needs for an OCC, a Giles (Buffy the Vampire Slayer). A person who had been studying lore and history, maybe even collecting mystical items that before the rifts did very little but with the coming of magic are actually useful. This could be similar to the Demon Hunter in Heroes Unlimted and would be almost an occult version of a prepper OCC.

that would be the witchhunter/demonhunter and the Para-arcane, from the main Chaos Earth book. They, like the volunteer militia from the same section, tend to be forgotten since they don't get the nifty armor, guns, and bots the NEMA occ's get

Jason Richards wrote a great book!

Jason's Bunkerman OCC inspired the Survivalist OCC. (PB removed Bunkerman, I added Survivalist)

The Survivalist OCC is in Rifter 80 also. In the story part: The Nebraskan Prepper (Survivalist OCC).

I wrote a bunch about the Survivalist OCC but had to parse it down for the RAW.

The Survivalist Harcher Shotgun is based off my IRL gun (a gun I own) here is a video of what it looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIso4ZWM06w (RAW version might be tad powerful, but really was rushed in writing material )

glitterboy2098 wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:This is in fact what I think CE still needs for an OCC, a Giles (Buffy the Vampire Slayer). A person who had been studying lore and history, maybe even collecting mystical items that before the rifts did very little but with the coming of magic are actually useful. This could be similar to the Demon Hunter in Heroes Unlimted and would be almost an occult version of a prepper OCC.

that would be the witchhunter/demonhunter and the Para-arcane, from the main Chaos Earth book. They, like the volunteer militia from the same section, tend to be forgotten since they don't get the nifty armor, guns, and bots the NEMA occ's get

You're right. It's been a long time since I really gave those two a good look so I've always thought of them as NEMA OCC's but you can make them as independent operators.

Fell wrote:Jason Richards wrote a great book!

Jason's Bunkerman OCC inspired the Survivalist OCC. (PB removed Bunkerman, I added Survivalist)

The Survivalist OCC is in Rifter 80 also. In the story part: The Nebraskan Prepper (Survivalist OCC).

I wrote a bunch about the Survivalist OCC but had to parse it down for the RAW.

The Survivalist Harcher Shotgun is based off my IRL gun (a gun I own) here is a video of what it looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIso4ZWM06w (RAW version might be tad powerful, but really was rushed in writing material )

I'm looking forward to reading my copy of the Raw to see the differences. If I think there's room for some stuff that got cut, I'll see if I can dress it for the Rifter as official material.

Fell wrote:Jason Richards wrote a great book!

Agreed. If I had one suggestion for the First Responders book it would be to increase the amount of golden age tech. Some sensors/scanners from Wilks would be cool as well as some civilian vehicles that might have been modded by Survivalists.

Fell wrote:Jason's Bunkerman OCC inspired the Survivalist OCC. (PB removed Bunkerman, I added Survivalist)

The Survivalist OCC is in Rifter 80 also. In the story part: The Nebraskan Prepper (Survivalist OCC).

I wrote a bunch about the Survivalist OCC but had to parse it down for the RAW.

The Survivalist Harcher Shotgun is based off my IRL gun (a gun I own) here is a video of what it looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIso4ZWM06w (RAW version might be tad powerful, but really was rushed in writing material )

I will have to check it out.

Warshield73 wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:This is in fact what I think CE still needs for an OCC, a Giles (Buffy the Vampire Slayer). A person who had been studying lore and history, maybe even collecting mystical items that before the rifts did very little but with the coming of magic are actually useful. This could be similar to the Demon Hunter in Heroes Unlimted and would be almost an occult version of a prepper OCC.

that would be the witchhunter/demonhunter and the Para-arcane, from the main Chaos Earth book. They, like the volunteer militia from the same section, tend to be forgotten since they don't get the nifty armor, guns, and bots the NEMA occ's get

You're right. It's been a long time since I really gave those two a good look so I've always thought of them as NEMA OCC's but you can make them as independent operators.

The hunters actually get presented as being more independent rather than working for NEMA but I suspect most players would be NEMA allies, the way the game is set up.

Jason Richards wrote:
I'm looking forward to reading my copy of the Raw to see the differences. If I think there's room for some stuff that got cut, I'll see if I can dress it for the Rifter as official material.

Jason,

I added stuff to page 8 to 13, Hell on Earth - to - A World gone mad! Made some maps too that were not added into the RAW.

The other thing was most non NEMA First Responders were suggested to be cut, I argued that the Police Officer, Firefighter and such that were not NEMA should be left in. I think having both NEMA and non NEMa 1st Responders is nice.

Bunkerman OCC was in removed portion, I thought it was cool, but wrote up the Prepper / Survivalist as an alternative. I thought your material was awesome. I enjoyed the Creatures & D-Bees you wrote, and I added a human monster: Warlord Rezik and the Lost Skeletons. My players liked going up against them in my Chaos Earth game (the Lost Skeletons were a grey area, doing good but also evil).

i can't say i'm fond of the time travelling doctor bit.. it is a cool story and NPC sure.. but the problem i have is that it breaks beleivability for the setting.

one of the things that has been hammered into us in CE and in the rifts books before it, was that the regular person on earth had no inkling the supernatural existed, at least, not as a real thing. sure you had references to BTS type stuff.. non-human races and weird monsters hiding in remote parts of the world, and the like.. but nothing publicly known and believed.

but a time travelling person who is confirmed to have been transported from the past, who's identity is known, who became a news item, coming from a period so far in the past that there was no way for people to handwave a mundane excuse.. it makes it almost impossible to beleive that the common person wouldn't believe in supernatural stuff after that. i mean, they had proof that the impossible occured. and that would make magic and rifts and the like a lot less shocking to them.

had the timeframe been shorter.. say, 10 years, it would be easier. you'd still have wonder about how the person didn't appear changed.. but doubt also, since some people don't change much in 10 years. and people going into hiding then reappearing after a decade is not completely unheard of. it would preserve the mystery around the person and prevent supernatural stuff from becoming headline news.

Fell wrote:

Jason Richards wrote:
I'm looking forward to reading my copy of the Raw to see the differences. If I think there's room for some stuff that got cut, I'll see if I can dress it for the Rifter as official material.

Jason,

I added stuff to page 8 to 13, Hell on Earth - to - A World gone mad! Made some maps too that were not added into the RAW.

The other thing was most non NEMA First Responders were suggested to be cut, I argued that the Police Officer, Firefighter and such that were not NEMA should be left in. I think having both NEMA and non NEMa 1st Responders is nice.

Bunkerman OCC was in removed portion, I thought it was cool, but wrote up the Prepper / Survivalist as an alternative. I thought your material was awesome. I enjoyed the Creatures & D-Bees you wrote, and I added a human monster: Warlord Rezik and the Lost Skeletons. My players liked going up against them in my Chaos Earth game (the Lost Skeletons were a grey area, doing good but also evil).

Ha. The whole reason that I wrote the book was to give people non-NEMA classes to play. Glad it sounds like it will stick.

It was suggested (here or elsewhere, I forget... maybe by you, Dan) that it could use a plot point campaign to introduce people. Maybe I'll write that and try to get it published in sequential Rifters. The campaign rules would focus on a challenge of surviving as an ordinary person, and you would PROBABLY die in every game and then have to roll up a new character. But, if you could scratch together a few sessions you'd start to have a chance. That is the absolute most fun way to play Chaos Earth, imo, at least occasionally in between giant robot campaigns.

Really looking forward to seeing it all!

Just ordered my copy of Surviving Chaos Earth. Looking forward to it

Hey Jason - I noticed that this covers the First Responders and Psychic Storm books. I could be wrong but didn't you also submit a book on the military too? "Brothers in Arms" or something like that?

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Just ordered my copy of Surviving Chaos Earth. Looking forward to it

Hey Jason - I noticed that this covers the First Responders and Psychic Storm books. I could be wrong but didn't you also submit a book on the military too? "Brothers in Arms" or something like that?

Not submitted, but was in the plan at one point. Just notes and ideas, currently. I doubt I pick it up again right now, but if CE sees a resurgence then maybe! Palladium has a pretty big backlog right now.

Jason Richards wrote:

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Just ordered my copy of Surviving Chaos Earth. Looking forward to it

Hey Jason - I noticed that this covers the First Responders and Psychic Storm books. I could be wrong but didn't you also submit a book on the military too? "Brothers in Arms" or something like that?

Not submitted, but was in the plan at one point. Just notes and ideas, currently. I doubt I pick it up again right now, but if CE sees a resurgence then maybe! Palladium has a pretty big backlog right now.

Ah ok. Well Chaos Earth is a whole lot more interesting I think than Rifts, so hopefully it does.

glitterboy2098 wrote:i can't say i'm fond of the time travelling doctor bit.. it is a cool story and NPC sure.. but the problem i have is that it breaks beleivability for the setting.

one of the things that has been hammered into us in CE and in the rifts books before it, was that the regular person on earth had no inkling the supernatural existed, at least, not as a real thing. sure you had references to BTS type stuff.. non-human races and weird monsters hiding in remote parts of the world, and the like.. but nothing publicly known and believed.

but a time travelling person who is confirmed to have been transported from the past, who's identity is known, who became a news item, coming from a period so far in the past that there was no way for people to handwave a mundane excuse.. it makes it almost impossible to beleive that the common person wouldn't believe in supernatural stuff after that. i mean, they had proof that the impossible occured. and that would make magic and rifts and the like a lot less shocking to them.

had the timeframe been shorter.. say, 10 years, it would be easier. you'd still have wonder about how the person didn't appear changed.. but doubt also, since some people don't change much in 10 years. and people going into hiding then reappearing after a decade is not completely unheard of. it would preserve the mystery around the person and prevent supernatural stuff from becoming headline news.

A time-traveling doctor? Did he arrive in a blue police box?

dreicunan wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:i can't say i'm fond of the time travelling doctor bit.. it is a cool story and NPC sure.. but the problem i have is that it breaks beleivability for the setting.

one of the things that has been hammered into us in CE and in the rifts books before it, was that the regular person on earth had no inkling the supernatural existed, at least, not as a real thing. sure you had references to BTS type stuff.. non-human races and weird monsters hiding in remote parts of the world, and the like.. but nothing publicly known and believed.

but a time travelling person who is confirmed to have been transported from the past, who's identity is known, who became a news item, coming from a period so far in the past that there was no way for people to handwave a mundane excuse.. it makes it almost impossible to beleive that the common person wouldn't believe in supernatural stuff after that. i mean, they had proof that the impossible occured. and that would make magic and rifts and the like a lot less shocking to them.

had the timeframe been shorter.. say, 10 years, it would be easier. you'd still have wonder about how the person didn't appear changed.. but doubt also, since some people don't change much in 10 years. and people going into hiding then reappearing after a decade is not completely unheard of. it would preserve the mystery around the person and prevent supernatural stuff from becoming headline news.

A time-traveling doctor? Did he arrive in a blue police box?

her, and an RV.

glitterboy2098 wrote:

dreicunan wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:i can't say i'm fond of the time travelling doctor bit.. it is a cool story and NPC sure.. but the problem i have is that it breaks beleivability for the setting.

one of the things that has been hammered into us in CE and in the rifts books before it, was that the regular person on earth had no inkling the supernatural existed, at least, not as a real thing. sure you had references to BTS type stuff.. non-human races and weird monsters hiding in remote parts of the world, and the like.. but nothing publicly known and believed.

but a time travelling person who is confirmed to have been transported from the past, who's identity is known, who became a news item, coming from a period so far in the past that there was no way for people to handwave a mundane excuse.. it makes it almost impossible to beleive that the common person wouldn't believe in supernatural stuff after that. i mean, they had proof that the impossible occured. and that would make magic and rifts and the like a lot less shocking to them.

had the timeframe been shorter.. say, 10 years, it would be easier. you'd still have wonder about how the person didn't appear changed.. but doubt also, since some people don't change much in 10 years. and people going into hiding then reappearing after a decade is not completely unheard of. it would preserve the mystery around the person and prevent supernatural stuff from becoming headline news.

A time-traveling doctor? Did he arrive in a blue police box?

her, and an RV.

Is this for real? I didn't see it.

"Lee Spencley NPC Hero", pg94-97.
lady who got transported 80 years forward in time.

I got my copy a few days ago and have enjoyed reading it! Admittedly there are areas which I disagree with, but I felt that the basic idea was very solid and that the First Responder OCCs add a very important dimension to the game as it IS a disaster scenario setting.
I liked the vehicles and the Harcher shotgun, too!

My disagreements stem (again) from IRL experiences and training as a First Responder. I just felt that some of the skills were incorrect. My training (allowing for the possibility of differences in program requirements) never included Chemistry or any of the sciences (though I've taken classes in chemistry and Anatomy/Physiology, biology, microbiology, technical writing, advanced math, at different points in my life for different reasons). The use of MOS's for "civilians" struck me as kind of "odd". The reason being is that I'm a "civilian" who is ex-military, but has been trained as a First Responder, and is also a bit of a "prepper/survivalist" but has (technically) specialized as a Dental Assistant (both militarily and civilian). So my "OCC" as a civilian would be very weird. Now don't get me wrong I LIKE having a "Civilian class", just that IMO it didn't need to use the term "MOS" (what with it meaning Military Occupational Specialty an' all that) and have a bunch of different and (IMO) redundant specialties. I always felt that "professional level/specialty" was well represented by being able to select certain skills twice for the professional bonus.
I prefer the old TMNT version of a civilian, but that's just me.
Anyway, great work Jason, your book will add much depth to my campaigns!

something of a limitation of it being a game really.. PB is better than say, D20 at such skill diversity, but no RPG is going to be able to handled every possible combination of personal history, education, and experience.

i would assume that to make such a character you'd pick a medical focused first responder OCC, take some medical skills that are more dentally inclined in with the basic medical stuff, and then use some of your OCC related and secondary skills to pick up a few military type skills.

glitterboy2098 wrote:something of a limitation of it being a game really.. PB is better than say, D20 at such skill diversity, but no RPG is going to be able to handled every possible combination of personal history, education, and experience.

i would assume that to make such a character you'd pick a medical focused first responder OCC, take some medical skills that are more dentally inclined in with the basic medical stuff, and then use some of your OCC related and secondary skills to pick up a few military type skills.

Well, from a military stand point my MOS would be Dental Assistant or DN, these days I'd be lumped in with the Hospital Corpsman or HNs. Then I'd probably add, chemistry, technical writing, microbiology, basic & advanced math, research, history, First Aid/First Responder (or BLS, Basic Lifesaving Skills), construction, pilot auto, pilot bus (CDL class vehicles), computer ops, radiology(dental focus). The chemistry and microbiology skills are unrelated to the Dental Assisting or First Aid skills.
As "civilians" we get the basic skills of basic math, literacy & language (native) and comp. ops (these days) but technically we also get history, technical writing, research, biology, and possibly a second non-native language.
TMNT had it better where you actually chose avenues of education that represented what you wanted to do, much like we do IRL.

Some of the best skill systems involve you just taking a single skill for your career, like "Dental Tech" and then using that skill for everything related to the profession.

Jason Richards wrote:Some of the best skill systems involve you just taking a single skill for your career, like "Dental Tech" and then using that skill for everything related to the profession.

No argument from me! The job covers a wide range of training making us generally knowledgeable about many things but not as knowledgeable as a Dentist or an MD. Even a trained First Responder isn't the same as a Paramedic or an EMT, and even they aren't the same as a Nurse or an MD.
I agree that there should be areas of special training for civilians and they can be represented by a specific set of skills, but instead of an "MOS" for civilians just use the actual system of college degrees and set the equivalent skills under it.
For Example: Chef (associates degree or equivalent training): professional cooking skill ( +20%) nutrition (+15%), biology (+10%), business management/technology (+15%).
You can use the cooking skill to cover cooking all types of cuisine (American, Asian, Latin American, World cuisine, etc.), the business management skill covers all the other areas from sanitation & safety to foodservice technology to menu planning. Now they still get heir "basic/common skills" of Computer Ops., Basic Math, Language and Literacy: Native. Then have the rest be out of related skills and secondary skills.
Paramedics and EMTs are also typically associates degree programs with nurses requiring a Bachelors to start, and Doctors requiring a PhD.

EDIT:I found a link to another section that references the old HU pre-revised skill program according to education level: College and High School skills, which are they?

Personally for CE this is how I'd set up a Civilian OCC as it seems to make more sense than the "MOS" concept (at least to me).
I do want to be totally clear; I LOVE First Responders, the ONLY section I REALLY disagree with is the Civilian OCC set up.

I hear you. MOS is just the parlance we're given by legacy and it takes burden off the players to give prearranged packages of skills.

I'm not done with the new RAW book yet, but I like what I see. Not perfect, but it adds needed depth.

It is great to see something in print.

RockJock wrote:I'm not done with the new RAW book yet, but I like what I see. Not perfect, but it adds needed depth.

It is great to see something in print.

Absolutely!

glitterboy2098 wrote:"Lee Spencley NPC Hero", pg94-97.
lady who got transported 80 years forward in time.

Thanks, I must have missed it when I was reading through

glitterboy2098 wrote:i can't say i'm fond of the time travelling doctor bit.. it is a cool story and NPC sure.. but the problem i have is that it breaks beleivability for the setting.

one of the things that has been hammered into us in CE and in the rifts books before it, was that the regular person on earth had no inkling the supernatural existed, at least, not as a real thing. sure you had references to BTS type stuff.. non-human races and weird monsters hiding in remote parts of the world, and the like.. but nothing publicly known and believed.

but a time travelling person who is confirmed to have been transported from the past, who's identity is known, who became a news item, coming from a period so far in the past that there was no way for people to handwave a mundane excuse.. it makes it almost impossible to beleive that the common person wouldn't believe in supernatural stuff after that. i mean, they had proof that the impossible occured. and that would make magic and rifts and the like a lot less shocking to them.

had the timeframe been shorter.. say, 10 years, it would be easier. you'd still have wonder about how the person didn't appear changed.. but doubt also, since some people don't change much in 10 years. and people going into hiding then reappearing after a decade is not completely unheard of. it would preserve the mystery around the person and prevent supernatural stuff from becoming headline news.

I really liked this story. First it was my impression that NEMA and the governments kept this information pretty hush hush. It said she was released under condition that she keep who she was a secret. If this is the case then the average person wouldn't know anything about it or have any reason to suspect the supernatural. NEMA and the government on the other hand would have reason to investigate and maybe even look into the supernatural before the Apocalypse.

Since way before CE came out whenever my players would find information from before the Rifts I would always introduce the idea of retrocausality. The coming of the Rifts is such a massive event that the effects of it, in this case a time traveler, would precede the cause.

The campaign I have always wanted to run for CE would begin a year or two before the apocalypse with a team investigating a lot strange events happening with increasing frequency. I have always thought it would be interesting if people started developing psionics before the Rifts.

keir451 wrote:

Jason Richards wrote:Some of the best skill systems involve you just taking a single skill for your career, like "Dental Tech" and then using that skill for everything related to the profession.

No argument from me! The job covers a wide range of training making us generally knowledgeable about many things but not as knowledgeable as a Dentist or an MD. Even a trained First Responder isn't the same as a Paramedic or an EMT, and even they aren't the same as a Nurse or an MD.
I agree that there should be areas of special training for civilians and they can be represented by a specific set of skills, but instead of an "MOS" for civilians just use the actual system of college degrees and set the equivalent skills under it.
For Example: Chef (associates degree or equivalent training): professional cooking skill ( +20%) nutrition (+15%), biology (+10%), business management/technology (+15%).
You can use the cooking skill to cover cooking all types of cuisine (American, Asian, Latin American, World cuisine, etc.), the business management skill covers all the other areas from sanitation & safety to foodservice technology to menu planning. Now they still get heir "basic/common skills" of Computer Ops., Basic Math, Language and Literacy: Native. Then have the rest be out of related skills and secondary skills.
Paramedics and EMTs are also typically associates degree programs with nurses requiring a Bachelors to start, and Doctors requiring a PhD.

EDIT:I found a link to another section that references the old HU pre-revised skill program according to education level: College and High School skills, which are they?

Personally for CE this is how I'd set up a Civilian OCC as it seems to make more sense than the "MOS" concept (at least to me).

I think my favorite version of the civilian is in the Macross SB. You can make almost any profession you want. This is the civilian I use in Phase World, with a few changes of course.

keir451 wrote:I do want to be totally clear; I LOVE First Responders.

Agreed. I haven't gotten too far into Psychic Scream but it looks good so far.

[quote=Warshield 73]Agreed. I haven't gotten too far into Psychic Scream but it looks good so far.[/quote]
Fair 'nough. I've read Psychic Scream and was, well, kind of disappointed. Some of the new Psychic OCCs just really don't make any sense at all.
Hope others get plenty of use out it nonetheless.

I toyed with making a COS version of MOS for Civilians.

Civilian Occupation Specialty.

I really like civilian O.C.C. in Dead Reign book.

Fell wrote:I toyed with making a COS version of MOS for Civilians.

Civilian Occupation Specialty.

I really like civilian O.C.C. in Dead Reign book.

Personally, I think that would have worked better. Of course I'm still a fan of the old HU system, too.
I liked the forward in Psychic Scream (are we gonna abbreviate it to PS now?) especially as I read many of the same book and watched many of the same shows (like Nimoy's In Search Of). But my other influences on potential psychic phenomena were the X-Men and Anne McCaffrey's Get Off the Unicorn and her FT&T series (Federated Telepath & Transport) both of which approach psionic talents from a similar standpoint. So some of the things just didn't make sense, but again, I still hope others enjoy it.

eh, just call them "occupations".. the MOS term makes sense because it is an actual military term, and we all know the military loves its acronyms. but for civilians you don't need anything fancy, 'occupations' will do.

glitterboy2098 wrote:eh, just call them "occupations".. the MOS term makes sense because it is an actual military term, and we all know the military loves its acronyms. but for civilians you don't need anything fancy, 'occupations' will do.

The Macross SB just calls them Civilian Occupations, no acronym.