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Was reviewing the Dream Abduction power on page 110 of WB1 (Between the Shadows). While I get it's certainly the more stealthy way of abducting people, look at the drawbacks:

1) victim gets a savings throw

2) even if they fail, you only have 20 minutes to kill them, the 5 ISP per extra minute isn't very efficient (20 for 20 is a much better deal)

If you can already get into the Dream Stream, page 127's Dream Window seems much more reliable. There's no savings throw, just requires physical connection, so create the portal horizantally right under the victim's sheets and they'll fall in!

Then there's no time limit. You've basically already won. They're stuck in their own dream pool and can't get out without assistance. They'll probably be killed by their own Dream Personae, or starve to death unless you can eat dream constructs. You can't age in the Dreamstream but it doesn't say anything about not suffocating/dehydrating/starving, far as I know.

The downside is that you can't bring Talismans or Scrolls to the dreamstream, so you'd need someone who actually knows the spell if targeting from there. Although you could use a Talisman of Dream Window if you can get within 20 feet of someone sleeping in the real world... pretty decent attack IMO. I'd probably try and use it to dump Hounds'

The downside for Nightlords is the lack of subtlety (flashing lights, a portal instead of a featureless vanish, possibly creatures entering the world although you could open/shut quickly enough to avoid that) but that's not really a concern for people who sleep alone without a camera recording them. Neighbours report seeing a flash of light? Who cares.

the nightlords are actually pretty short on minions that actually use spell magic. the nightlords themselves might be capable, but have to a large extent forsaken their spellcasting origins in favour of their new powers as nightlords. same with the princes. so even if some of them are capable of using dream magic (most probably are not), they're extremely unlikely to use it, and even less likely to teach it.

of their minions, most don't use spells, and i don't think any standard minions get access to dream magic spells, so it kinda makes sense to use morpheomoths. sure, they might not be quite as good at it (although frankly, 20 minutes is 80 melee rounds and i expect more than enough time to kill someone under any remotely reasonable circumstances), but if you have, say, 50,000 morpheomoths and maybe a hundred spellcasters (if that) which even know any dream magic at all, never mind the specific spell you need (or the specific spell you need plus talisman), you use the morpheomoths i think

Dream Window is also a spell?
I thought it was just a Dream Maker power......

Sir_Spirit wrote:Dream Window is also a spell?
I thought it was just a Dream Maker power......

There are new (&old imported) spells listed on pages 126-128 of NB:BTS. Just after the Arcane Detective magic class, and just before the new skills section.

It's right after Astral Portal, cept lower level and less PPE to use. AP itself was a huge step, as it was less PPE and lower level than Mystic Portal, and could sub very easily for Dimensional Portal purposes by using 2 with an astral-plane midway. More effective than TTGD Pathways too, though probably more dangerous.

Also, we don't know if putting someone in their dream bubble is very efficient. Seems like there is a good chance they will "wake up" or be awoken by a dream personae/staring at their own sleeping body/etc. And when you are awake its really hard to get into yoru own dream bubble. While being physically in your own dream bubble might not make you a dream maker/dancer I would let it keep you alive like those people. Unaging and stuff with a chance of insanity. And your body would be make of dream stuff so you could live off dream food if you needed to.
Mind you, i the waking world you would still have dissapeared, but there is a small chance Dream dancers/makers or Nightbane or what not might notice and look around and potentially find you target. THena rescue could happen.
It's not a hight probobility but if you are doing nothing BUT this sort of thing the odds stack up.....

Axelmania wrote:Was reviewing the Dream Abduction power on page 110 of WB1 (Between the Shadows). While I get it's certainly the more stealthy way of abducting people, look at the drawbacks:
.

Also, just thougth of this, they don't want to be too efficient, as that would cause a mystical backlash, so by letting morpheomoths slowly bleed more humans to death, serving as another front on their war, and a distraction from their slow humanicide, they come closer to achieving their goal.

I don't think you could kill people fast enough using these abilities to cause a backlash.

Being physically in your own dream pool is dangerous, your own dream personae can kill you.

Axelmania wrote:I don't think you could kill people fast enough using these abilities to cause a backlash.

Being physically in your own dream pool is dangerous, your own dream personae can kill you.

You are there psychically, so you could kill you, or your dream personae could worship you as their god.

You can kill yourself in the real world too so that's not exactly an added risk.

SOME of your dream persona could worship you, but a persona representing your fears could be a lot more powerful.