Rocket Launchers

[Bill]

What books include rocket launchers or man-portable minimissile launchers?

Thanks

[Alrik Vas]

Mercenaries, Merc Ops, Underseas, CWC, probably both Triax books and many others.

[drewkitty ~..~]

There are also some in the Rifts Black Market. Page 147 (mini-missiles) & page 149 (rocket mortars).

There are micro-missile launchers in the 2nd three galaxies book, the PW sourcebook.

[Blue_Lion]

probably 1 out of every 3 books has them.

[kaid]

Good lord hehe there are an awful lot of random rocket launchers scattered about.

Others have been mentioned but I did not see NG2 mentioned which has the northern gun launchers but really almost any world book with a tech nation in it has their version of a rocket launcher or things capable of shooting mini missiles that are vaguely man portable.

[Library Ogre]

I tend to just use the RL-6 from Robotech, TBH. "Hey, I need something that shoots mini-missiles!" "Ehhhh... this works."

[eliakon]

Rifts Game Masters Guide has a lot and lot of weapons in it. Including a whole ton of rocket launchers (Up to, and including the pre-rifts LAW)

[drewkitty ~..~]

other places for "pre-rifts" modern weapons are the HU, NB, N&S/MC, & BTS mainbooks. Along with "The Compendium of Modern Weapons". The C.o.M.W. is a bit dated, having been compiled in the 90's.

[kaid]

Honestly unless you are looking for something with a big magazine most of the launchers are more or less interchangeable as the most important stats tend to come from the missile itself so just picking one and going with it is fine.

[Library Ogre]

"But this one has a +1 to hit!"

[dragonfett]

The RMB/RUE has the CR-1 Rocket Launcher (p. 204 in the RMB, p. 257 in the RUE).

[Warshield73]

If you are looking for something different from the usual mini-missiles there are two really good light rocket launchers.

WB 7: Underseas, Pg. 116 the LAWS-3. It is great if you are looking for examples of Pre-Rifts tech and it has a guided option that mini-missiles lack.

WB 9: SA 2, Pg. 81 & 82 has a mortar and rocket launcher of the Arkohns. Its a great advanced weapon to give to aliens or to give to PCs if you want to let them have an advanced weapon with limited ammo.

[Tor]

I like that one in Mercs where it lets you use any medium missile launcher. Good way to take out a GB from nearly 5x his range.

[Nox Equites]

I like that one in Mercs where it lets you use any medium missile launcher. Good way to take out a GB from nearly 5x his range.

And at a far cheaper price than replacing the GB for the OpFor.

[Tor]

Although there is the dilemma that (assuming power armor targetting systems allow you to ignore the speed-based strike penalties for moving objects) it's probably easier to shoot down a missile than to dodge it, so it's hard to say how many missiles you'd need to get before the GB missed them and it hit.

A way around that would be volleys (they'd either have to dodge a volley of 2 or 3 or risk 1-2 hitting if they shot it down) but to volley with anything but mini-missiles usually requires a robot or big military vehicle of some sort.

Mini-missiles are of course useless since the boom gun's range is over twice them.

A simple Flying Titan carrying armor-piercing short range missiles could get the job done though. 5 isn't as good as 10 but it is adequate. The GB couldn't catch up to you so you'd just have to fly off and resupply more short-range missiles until you inflicted enough damage.

Course if the GB had a Naruni field they might regen the damage you inflicted by then, although with the CWC/DB3 boost to missile damage you could probably deplete the forcefield each time and still whittle them down.

[kaid]

"But this one has a +1 to hit!"

Yup pretty much. Some have a few shot magazines/ some have a plus to hit some are heavier some are lighter but missile launchers have some of the least variation from maker to maker in this system mostly due to all the important stats coming from the munition not the launcher.

[glitterboy2098]

I tend to just use the RL-6 from Robotech, TBH. "Hey, I need something that shoots mini-missiles!" "Ehhhh... this works."

actually the Wellington WI-23 from Mercenaries is a pretty close copy of the RL-6. 6 shot autoloading minimissile launcher, using a 6 missile box magazine.

it looks different but it's pretty much the same system stats wise. handy for when you have a GM that dislike game line crossovers for gear.

[Svartalf]

I like those in Warlords of Russia, but they are more heavy borg portable than man portable, and the harness for a human to carry them is kinda cumbersome.

[kaid]

I like those in Warlords of Russia, but they are more heavy borg portable than man portable, and the harness for a human to carry them is kinda cumbersome.

I like a lot of the huge bulky warlords weapons very well suited for a russian themed campaign and works well enough given the extreme high percentages of borgs of various levels.

[Blue_Lion]

Although there is the dilemma that (assuming power armor targetting systems allow you to ignore the speed-based strike penalties for moving objects) it's probably easier to shoot down a missile than to dodge it, so it's hard to say how many missiles you'd need to get before the GB missed them and it hit.

A way around that would be volleys (they'd either have to dodge a volley of 2 or 3 or risk 1-2 hitting if they shot it down) but to volley with anything but mini-missiles usually requires a robot or big military vehicle of some sort.

Mini-missiles are of course useless since the boom gun's range is over twice them.

A simple Flying Titan carrying armor-piercing short range missiles could get the job done though. 5 isn't as good as 10 but it is adequate. The GB couldn't catch up to you so you'd just have to fly off and resupply more short-range missiles until you inflicted enough damage.

Course if the GB had a Naruni field they might regen the damage you inflicted by then, although with the CWC/DB3 boost to missile damage you could probably deplete the forcefield each time and still whittle them down.

That is a bit assumption with no book support.

[Alrik Vas]

Which part is pure assumption, Blue Lion? Not that I don't agree to some extent, but I'm looking for your explanation to his points.

[Natasha]

There should be no moving penalties to shoot down a missile coming straight at you. A GB type of gun is kind of what they use on naval vessels today. The main challenge, as I see it, is having enough time to aim; the anti missile guns used today are very fast. Are Rifts characters that fast? I suppose if they can dodge a missile, then, yes, they are that fast.

[Blue_Lion]

Which part is pure assumption, Blue Lion? Not that I don't agree to some extent, but I'm looking for your explanation to his points.

The part where he says assuming X.
Nothing in the books ever says PA does not suffer penalty for movement. Some people seam to think that the movement penalties do not apply to PA but I have not seen them present anything from a book to support it.

The only thing we know the targeting computer on pa does is give bonus X to strike that can be done with cross hairs on the hud same as a scope can provide +X to aimed shots.

The rules for movement penalty do not allow something to not take penalty for shooting a moving target even a vehicle or PA designed to never have anything saying they do not penalty when shooting at a moving target.

The penalty for shooting from a moving vehicle does not apply to vehicle mounted weapons. That is the only clause I know of anything exempt from a movement penalty. (but that is only for your own movement not the targets.)

[Alrik Vas]

I agree that moving target and moving shooter both impose difficulty.

But do me a favor and lay out the total bonuses of a 1st level power armor pilot with basic training and appropriate WP for firing a weapon mounted on the armor, then tell me the penalties for that firing while flying 100mph at a target going 200mph.

[Blue_Lion]

I agree that moving target and moving shooter both impose difficulty.

But do me a favor and lay out the total bonuses of a 1st level power armor pilot with basic training and appropriate WP for firing a weapon mounted on the armor, then tell me the penalties for that firing while flying 100mph at a target going 200mph.

By the book it would be shooting wild so no bonus for firing that weapon while fling at 100 mph.
PA is not a vehicle but a suit of armor. The penalties for moving is only if the target is moving not you firing from the PA while moving would encore the old standard wild shot.
so -6 for shooting wild then -4 for the moving and three times passed 20. So -10
(See the math is simple it is a wild shot.)

[dragonfett]

I agree that moving target and moving shooter both impose difficulty.

But do me a favor and lay out the total bonuses of a 1st level power armor pilot with basic training and appropriate WP for firing a weapon mounted on the armor, then tell me the penalties for that firing while flying 100mph at a target going 200mph.

What are the relative vectors of the power armor moving at 100 mph vs. the power armor moving at 200 mph? It makes a huge difference to me. If they are both moving in the same direction, then the difference of speeds should determine the penalties to shoot. If their vectors are perpendicular to one another, then the penalties to shoot would be determined by the faster power armor's speed. But if they are moving directly at one another, then their respective speeds would be combined to determine the penalties to shoot. *Please note that this does not take into account the penalties to firing while moving that the attacker would also have to account for as well. Can someone give a book and page number reference for this rule by the way because it is not listed under the shooting bonuses and penalties on page 361 of the RUE.*

By the book it would be shooting wild so no bonus for firing that weapon while fling at 100 mph.

By the book, shooting wild only applies to shooting while running, leaping, dodging, falling, or hanging upside down. Flying would not cause someone to be shooting wild.

[Blue_Lion]

I agree that moving target and moving shooter both impose difficulty.

But do me a favor and lay out the total bonuses of a 1st level power armor pilot with basic training and appropriate WP for firing a weapon mounted on the armor, then tell me the penalties for that firing while flying 100mph at a target going 200mph.

What are the relative vectors of the power armor moving at 100 mph vs. the power armor moving at 200 mph? It makes a huge difference to me. If they are both moving in the same direction, then the difference of speeds should determine the penalties to shoot. If their vectors are perpendicular to one another, then the penalties to shoot would be determined by the faster power armor's speed. But if they are moving directly at one another, then their respective speeds would be combined to determine the penalties to shoot. *Please note that this does not take into account the penalties to firing while moving that the attacker would also have to account for as well. Can someone give a book and page number reference for this rule by the way because it is not listed under the shooting bonuses and penalties on page 361 of the RUE.*

By the book it would be shooting wild so no bonus for firing that weapon while fling at 100 mph.

By the book, shooting wild only applies to shooting while running, leaping, dodging, falling, or hanging upside down. Flying would not cause someone to be shooting wild.

Nope by the book you missed allot pg 361 RUE gold edition (and my first printing of RUE) clearly say Shooting wild is applied when the charter is Terrified, angry/enraged, panicked off balanced, drunk, shooting from a moving vehicle/platform/horseback, spraying an area, shooting while under heavy fire himself and while running leaping dodgein, falling or handing upside down.

You missed what half them.(makes me wonder if you checked the page you where referring to.)
The rules do not take in to account relative vectors only the targets speed. They also do not into account how fast you are going so the penalty is the same weather you fly at 1 MPH and shoot at a target going 200 and if you fly at 100. (Going by the book.)
A PA is a moving platform when fling so it does get the penalty.

[dragonfett]

I agree that moving target and moving shooter both impose difficulty.

But do me a favor and lay out the total bonuses of a 1st level power armor pilot with basic training and appropriate WP for firing a weapon mounted on the armor, then tell me the penalties for that firing while flying 100mph at a target going 200mph.

What are the relative vectors of the power armor moving at 100 mph vs. the power armor moving at 200 mph? It makes a huge difference to me. If they are both moving in the same direction, then the difference of speeds should determine the penalties to shoot. If their vectors are perpendicular to one another, then the penalties to shoot would be determined by the faster power armor's speed. But if they are moving directly at one another, then their respective speeds would be combined to determine the penalties to shoot. *Please note that this does not take into account the penalties to firing while moving that the attacker would also have to account for as well. Can someone give a book and page number reference for this rule by the way because it is not listed under the shooting bonuses and penalties on page 361 of the RUE.*

By the book it would be shooting wild so no bonus for firing that weapon while fling at 100 mph.

By the book, shooting wild only applies to shooting while running, leaping, dodging, falling, or hanging upside down. Flying would not cause someone to be shooting wild.

Nope by the book you missed allot pg 361 RUE gold edition Shooting wild is when the charter is Terrified, angry/enraged, panicked off balanced, drunk, shooting from a moving vehicle/platform/horseback, spraying an area, shooting while under heavy fire himself and while running leaping dodgein, falling or handing upside down.

You missed what half them.
A PA is a moving platform when fling so it does get the penalty.

Alright, I admit that I missed the shooting from a moving vehicle/platform/horseback. I wasn't listing them all because I was highlighting the fact that it was running. I see now that I should have taken the time to list them all.

[Blue_Lion]

I agree that moving target and moving shooter both impose difficulty.

But do me a favor and lay out the total bonuses of a 1st level power armor pilot with basic training and appropriate WP for firing a weapon mounted on the armor, then tell me the penalties for that firing while flying 100mph at a target going 200mph.

What are the relative vectors of the power armor moving at 100 mph vs. the power armor moving at 200 mph? It makes a huge difference to me. If they are both moving in the same direction, then the difference of speeds should determine the penalties to shoot. If their vectors are perpendicular to one another, then the penalties to shoot would be determined by the faster power armor's speed. But if they are moving directly at one another, then their respective speeds would be combined to determine the penalties to shoot. *Please note that this does not take into account the penalties to firing while moving that the attacker would also have to account for as well. Can someone give a book and page number reference for this rule by the way because it is not listed under the shooting bonuses and penalties on page 361 of the RUE.*

By the book it would be shooting wild so no bonus for firing that weapon while fling at 100 mph.

By the book, shooting wild only applies to shooting while running, leaping, dodging, falling, or hanging upside down. Flying would not cause someone to be shooting wild.

Nope by the book you missed allot pg 361 RUE gold edition Shooting wild is when the charter is Terrified, angry/enraged, panicked off balanced, drunk, shooting from a moving vehicle/platform/horseback, spraying an area, shooting while under heavy fire himself and while running leaping dodgein, falling or handing upside down.

You missed what half them.
A PA is a moving platform when fling so it does get the penalty.

Alright, I admit that I missed the shooting from a moving vehicle/platform/horseback. I wasn't listing them all because I was highlighting the fact that it was running. I see now that I should have taken the time to list them all.

It is not running but any time the charter is rushed, unstable or not in there right mind. So you where trying to highlight something other than the intent of the text. Running falls under unstable as does leaping dodging falling handing upside down off balanced, and by the way it is written moving vehicle/platform/horse back. Rushed would be while under heavy fire, spraying an area and right mind would be drunk panicked terrified, angry/enraged. (Although you could argue that rushed and not in the right mind for this are the same.)

[Alrik Vas]

So, to be clear, at what time do you actually get bonuses in combat according to what you're saying, Blue Lion?

[dragonfett]

I personally feel that firing while flying should not be considered shooting wild, but that's just my personal opinion.

[Blue_Lion]

So, to be clear, at what time do you actually get bonuses in combat according to what you're saying, Blue Lion?

When in a condition that triggers the bonus but wild shots from rpa basic does not trigger any bonus at level 1. (never specified any PA so did not look up any suits stats.)
In my books wp heavy MD weapons does not give a bonus until level 2. Basic RPA gives a bonus to hand to hand only. So an average pilot shooting from a moving platform (wild at a target moving X)

You seam to disagree what bonus do you feel I Missed that should apply?

[Alrik Vas]

There are some modifiers a level 1 pilot can have. First, almost all power armor gain +1 to strike with ranged combat due to their laser targeting systems (RUE Page 271, doesn't apply to H2H or SAMAS) and if the pilot has the Weapon Systems skill, they gain another +1 with mounted weapons (RUE page 320, doesn't apply to hand held weapons).

It isn't that I disagree, I agree fine. As long as the information is correct. For instance, the penalty for shooting wild is only a penalty. They removed the condition of losing all bonuses. So it's whatever your modifier is, -6.

[Blue_Lion]

There are some modifiers a level 1 pilot can have. First, almost all power armor gain +1 to strike with ranged combat due to their laser targeting systems (RUE Page 271, doesn't apply to H2H or SAMAS) and if the pilot has the Weapon Systems skill, they gain another +1 with mounted weapons (RUE page 320, doesn't apply to hand held weapons).

It isn't that I disagree, I agree fine. As long as the information is correct. For instance, the penalty for shooting wild is only a penalty. They removed the condition of losing all bonuses. So it's whatever your modifier is, -6.

The +1 from laser sights as I understand does not apply to all PA it was stated the PA was fling at 100mph(most common flying pa are some sort of samas so may not apply so was not included). The stated skill was the needed for firing the weapons that is WP heavy MD. The rail guns that are standard weapons are typically in the hands with some PA specially mentioning slinging them they may not classified as mounted and having them hard mounted would remove one of the often stated advantages of having hands to do other work.

So I included all appropriate modifiers for the listed scenario, without getting into debated category, or adding a bonus that may not apply. Now then with a specific PA and more details on the pilot we can find bonuses that are missing but what I gave is the base without any conditional modifiers.
Such as a Striker Samas shooting mini-missiles at or a predator using its built in laser then we can get into more detail.

[Alrik Vas]

Why does laser targeting not apply when flying?

[Blue_Lion]

Why does laser targeting not apply when flying?

Name the most common type of flying PA. (As I understand it may be wrong they expend it to include all fling PA as on the list of not working.)

[Alrik Vas]

I get what you're saying, I just think it's a stretch.

[Blue_Lion]

I get what you're saying, I just think it's a stretch.

It is a stretch not to apply a bonus that may not apply?

[Alrik Vas]

It's a stretch to apply a rule about SAMAS to all flying PA.

[Tor]

The part where he says assuming X.

Ah you mean "assuming power armor targetting systems allow you to ignore the speed-based strike penalties for moving objects". Thank you for clarifying.

I fully agree with you about this, it was an argument someone else brought up when I was actually calculating the strike penalties missiles would have at full speed. Unfortunately I couldn't remember who made it to attribute it correctly.

Nothing in the books ever says PA does not suffer penalty for movement. Some people seam to think that the movement penalties do not apply to PA but I have not seen them present anything from a book to support it.

Yeah, I vaguely remember the proponent saying something about targetting systems...

RMB's combat example didn't appear to apply speed penalties that existed at the time (simple 2-tier amounts, not multi-increment like in RUE) so maybe this line of thinking originated there?

RUEp361's penalties for "shooting a movement target" is listed under "gun terms" so I think part of the argument was also "missiles are not guns" or something along those lines.

Along this line of thinking, if you wanted to throw a knife or shoot a bow at a moving target I guess that also means you wouldn't suffer speed penalties since they're not guns either?

I tend to get the impression that the author would intend for those penalties to apply to all weapons and not just guns but the heading being 'gun terms' does imply it's restricted to them, to my chagrin.

The penalty for shooting from a moving vehicle does not apply to vehicle mounted weapons. That is the only clause I know of anything exempt from a movement penalty. (but that is only for your own movement not the targets.)

This sounds useful, do you remember where it's mentioned? I'm increasingly becoming a fan of the idea of mounting a light railgun or TK machinegun on the back of a jeep and this benefit to turrets would be fun.

PA is not a vehicle but a suit of armor.

That's kind of a shady area. For example RMBp77 under the Operator's Standard Equipment:

"The character's vehicle can be any kind of non-magical vehicle, including military vehicles, robot vehicles, and power armor (Note: the character must have the appropriate piloting skills to operate these special vehicles."

So I always got the impression that PA did qualify as vehicles. RUEp93 did change this to simply say commercial vehicles as per pilot skill. That sort of applies that anything with a "pilot" skill qualifies as a vehicle though. In which case, PA do have a piloting skill, so I'd say that makes them vehicles. You don't need a pilot skill to wear body armor.

pg 361 RUE gold edition Shooting wild is when the charter is Terrified, angry/enraged, panicked off balanced, drunk, shooting from a moving vehicle/platform/horseback.

I missed the shooting from a moving vehicle/platform/horseback.

Makes me wonder if there is a distinction between "shooting FROM a moving vehicle" and "shooting WITH a moving vehicle" regarding built-in weapon systems. Plus weirdness like when do hand-held rifles qualify as built-in or separate... I imagine that the targeting systems of a SAMAS are built to incorporate their rail gun but if you simply bought a stolen SAMAS rail gun and used it with your Flying Titan then it probably wouldn't be as useful.

Like for example... subjectively speaking we function like a moving vehicle for a Psymbiote so would they have strike penalties to hit with their psi powers while we're walking?

[dragonfett]

Part of the reason I never thought that firing from a robot vehicle or power armor you were trained in would count as shooting wild was what I had thought the penalty for shooting wild was, which up until now I had always thought that the shooting wild penalty was just a strait d20 roll -6 (plus what ever other penalties got stacked on that).

Part of the reason I thought that was how it was written was back in the RMB the penalty for shooting wild was no combat bonuses if you were proficient in the weapon you were shooting and -6 if you were not proficient with it.

[guardiandashi]

honestly I understand where blue lion is coming from in in his argument that shooting from a moving vehicle constitutes a wild shot, but I disagree completely with that interpretation.

I always interpreted the shooting from a moving vehicle to mean things like standing in the bed of a pickup (or sitting in a car) and shooting a non-mounted weapon. IE you are standing in the bed of a pickup firing your m16 rifle at whatever.

wheras having a tripod mount in the back and firing your mounted m60, or .50cal machine gun while the truck is driving would NOT constitute a wild shot IMO.

to extend that idea, in my mind any "integrated" weapons on a vehicle, robot, or power armor also fall into the "mounted" clause regardless of weather they are hand held or not.
I know its a kind of stretch in some ways... but I still think of the old Robocop movie (the 1st one not the remake) where he had the HUD that "knew" where the gun was pointing because of "calibration" especially when you add the idea of things like "shadow run smart gun links" which are definitely implied to exist on a number of rifts weapons what with laser targeting and other enhanced targeting options for a large number of weapons.
I always felt that most power armor weapons have a "scope equivalent" sensor and "typically" laser designator integrated into the weapon that ties back into the HUD systems of the suit that when calibrated properly (read sensors skill) etc. basically lets you know "if I fire the round/s will hit the (crosshair) location.

[Tor]

A rule for vehicle-affixed weapons being a little less wild compared to handheld ones would definitely make sense, just not sure of where text supports it.

All I can propose is we take "fire from" to mean a distinct thing from "fire with", if the turret is mounted on the vehicle then it can be perceived as the vehicle itself firing, so it is not 'from' the vehicle but 'with' it.

[Alrik Vas]

Guardiandashi, they do have integrated weapon system targeting. Aside SAMAS, the bonuses is +1, if you have weapon systems skill, you get another +1. Other power armor might have more bonuses with different weapons under their descriptions.

Then of course there's the +2 additional from elite training if you have it.