Forums of the Megaverse®

Let's say Kevin gave you 'the keys to the car' to do a little joy-riding with the system, how would you change Psionics? Better yet, WOULD you change psionics? I'm curious to see the answers people come up with.

Myself: Since both Mind Bolt and Psi-Sword are described as 'Psionic Energy' and not 'Telekinetic Force', I would have them do damage that actually strikes the target's MIND as opposed to their body (since the description for Astral Projection already gives a method of determining mental health, in the form of the Astral SDC, use that as what these attacks strike and damage, meaning that those Invulnerable characters might still take a while to whittle down but these powers now become a very real threat to them). MDC Note: MDC beings take Astral MD damage, SDC beings take Astral SDC damage but the attacks penetrate even MDC armor, power armors, and natural invulnerbilities (like those of the Vampire or Lycanthropes of all types), robots, etc.- as long as the attacker knows where the target is inside the robot.

Hypnotic Suggestion- When and why did it become a Super ability? Place it into the minor category of Sensitive.

Telepathy- If you're really going to have it be surface thoughts only then you need a Super Psionics version of it that allows you to dig around in someone's subconscious or memories. As it stands right now, this power is simply the Telepathic Transmission power from TMNT renamed, and that power was intended to only be used for communication.

Also, the all or nothing nature of Psionics is kinda... strange- you either get full effect or nothing? Why? What if you try to Mind Control someone and they save by 1, should they really get off scott free? Maybe some sort of scaled effects for certain Psionic powers (Telepathy, Empathy, Mentally Possess Others, etc.).

More as they come to me...

To guide off the idea in PU2, how about letting a psionicist get unlimited uses of his primary power while the rest still go the ISP route?

So you're a mindreader -- you just are -- but you can, by concentrating really hard, plant a hypnotic suggestion. Or you can effortlessly manifest ectoplasm, but sculpting it into an ectoplasmic disguise takes a lot of work. Or you get free sixth-sense warnings about the immediate future, but have to strain for a clairvoyant vision of tomorrow's headline.

Regularguy wrote:To guide off the idea in PU2, how about letting a psionicist get unlimited uses of his primary power while the rest still go the ISP route?

So you're a mindreader -- you just are -- but you can, by concentrating really hard, plant a hypnotic suggestion. Or you can effortlessly manifest ectoplasm, but sculpting it into an ectoplasmic disguise takes a lot of work. Or you get free sixth-sense warnings about the immediate future, but have to strain for a clairvoyant vision of tomorrow's headline.

Interesting idea- I'll need to re-check PU 2...

I'd bring back the old HU Telepathy where for an additional 6 ISP you could do a deep scan as well as rework the ISP regeneration so you didn't have to spend hours to recover from one use of a psi-sword.


Daniel Stoker

Regularguy wrote:To guide off the idea in PU2, how about letting a psionicist get unlimited uses of his primary power while the rest still go the ISP route?

I assume you're speaking of the empowered class with psychic abilities to compensate.

And to tell the truth I've always wanted to play a character uses the superior telekinesis option, I would likely go the wheel chair route ... although i'd rather play the guy with no physical disability at all.

Actually thinking about it I think that idea is brilliant. The "default" application of a psionic ability being free and then using ISP for advanced "stunts" would be very fun. . . Hell I could imagine that kind of system for every type of power being very fun.

I'm looking at one of my psychic characters right now, unfortunately none of the PU2 options are appropriate for him. He's kind of half Sensitive half Healing. Perhaps Latent Psychics choose 1 default power and Master Psychics choose two lol

Psychic Healer

Primary Psychic Ability
Psychic Diagnosis: The psychic healer can see people's life force. He gains the knowledge granted by Psychic Diagnosis, however the range is equal to line of sight, he does not have to enter a trace, and finally there is no expenditure of ISP.

The psychic can then choose 1d4 + 2 powers from the healing category, and the two super psionic abilities Bio Manipulation & Cure Insanity

Incriptus wrote:

Regularguy wrote:To guide off the idea in PU2, how about letting a psionicist get unlimited uses of his primary power while the rest still go the ISP route?

I assume you're speaking of the empowered class with psychic abilities to compensate.

And to tell the truth I've always wanted to play a character uses the superior telekinesis option

Yeah, that one pretty well fits what I'm talking about right there in the book: you can spend your every waking minute performing simple telekinetic feats at no ISP cost, but telemechanically operating devices -- or pumping out an omnidirectional forcefield, or whatever -- will soon burn through your reserves. Seems like a classic.

Actually thinking about it I think that idea is brilliant. The "default" application of a psionic ability being free and then using ISP for advanced "stunts" would be very fun. . . Hell I could imagine that kind of system for every type of power being very fun.

I'm looking at one of my psychic characters right now, unfortunately none of the PU2 options are appropriate for him. He's kind of half Sensitive half Healing.

From a role-playing standpoint, the combo that interests me would be a Sensitive who prefers playing The Smart Guy when he can afford to mimic skills, or use total recall on whatever he's been speed reading, or whatever -- but who, when he's down to his last ISP and can no longer pass himself off as perceptive or knowledgeable, still has a limitless amount of Dumb Muscle psionics up his sleeve.

(I mean, anyone can build a psionicist who always runs out of temporary power right when he runs out of temporary smarts; that's easy. But a would-be genius who reluctantly switches to mental firepower whenever he's otherwise out of brainpower? That's a neat twist.)

I subtract the character's ME bonus from the cost of all psionic powers (with some special cases like Restore PPE). Yes, that means some powers can be used for free if you have a high enough ME.

I would also define real rules for Astral Projection. The existing description is useless. For example, if you don't return to your body before the duration expires, what happens?

--flatline

I think the only thing I would change is the rate of ISP recovery... for the same reason Daniel mentioned... as it stands... it can take hours... even days to recover the ISP spent in a single combat.

Thank you guys- all sorts of Interesting ideas here...

Incidentally, consider what I've been saying in existing game balance terms.

If you wanted to play the character who uses subtle psionics that eventually drain his ISP to nothing -- at which point his boosted smarts run out, and he reluctantly switches from the difficult finesse he struggles with to the easy brute-force pyrokinesis that comes naturally -- I'd have to say, no, that's against the rules. But if you said maybe he does psionic finesse with ISP like I was saying, but uses CEF: Fire to do the exact same stuff as Pyrokinesis, I'd say, well, sure, that's obviously a yes.

Or if you wanted to play someone who effortlessly hypnotizes others -- and is so good, he can even use self-hypnosis to convince himself into firing up various ISP-fueled effects -- well, that's weird and cool and interesting and a flat no by the book. Unless you're playing a guy with psionic powers and Control: Others, in which case it's of course a yes.

Or if you wanted a mind-over-matter type who can walk on hot coals without injury, and is just as impervious to cold, and can resist hunger for months -- even after zeroing out his ISP with the powers he's yet to master -- again, that's a no unless you have psionic powers and Invulnerability, which is a yes.

Or if you wanted a guy who can always float cross-legged in mid-air, concentrating to rely on keen nightvision -- despite having used up his ISP on assorted psionic abilities -- yeah, no, unless it's something like psionics plus Sonic Flight, which equals yes.

Or: psionics plus always-on telemechanics, no; psionics plus Mechano-Link, yes. And et cetera. So if those are all allowed, why not reverse-engineer it so psionics-plus-psionics lets you go limited-for-some-but-unlimited-in-your-specialty likewise?

I would start with devising a system where having psychic powers either use skills or give bonuses to the existing skillset. (Magic and super powers would get that too; shouldn't there be a skill for being able to use the power of flight?).

wyrmraker wrote:I would start with devising a system where having psychic powers either use skills or give bonuses to the existing skillset. (Magic and super powers would get that too; shouldn't there be a skill for being able to use the power of flight?).

Do you need a skill for walking? Why would you need a skill for flying? If you had a skill for Flight it would be like Running for walking, where you've really trained yourself to fly extra well compared to the one who didn't.

I allow taking skills to demonstrate that a character has practiced doing advanced things with their abilities.

For example, a super powered character with Bend Light might spend a skill slot to be able selectively bend portions of the spectrum rather than everything across the IR - visible light - UV range. As GM, I'd probably let them do that anyways, but by spending a skill on it and character generation, it removes the need for negotiation during play.

--flatline

Nightmask wrote:

wyrmraker wrote:I would start with devising a system where having psychic powers either use skills or give bonuses to the existing skillset. (Magic and super powers would get that too; shouldn't there be a skill for being able to use the power of flight?).

Do you need a skill for walking? Why would you need a skill for flying? If you had a skill for Flight it would be like Running for walking, where you've really trained yourself to fly extra well compared to the one who didn't.

I would treat flying like aerial piloting; skill rolls for difficult maneuvers would be quite applicable. Shouldn't Psychic Diagnosis add a bonus to medical skills? Shouldn't Telemechanics add to rolls to repair equipment? That was my point.

wyrmraker wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

wyrmraker wrote:I would start with devising a system where having psychic powers either use skills or give bonuses to the existing skillset. (Magic and super powers would get that too; shouldn't there be a skill for being able to use the power of flight?).

Do you need a skill for walking? Why would you need a skill for flying? If you had a skill for Flight it would be like Running for walking, where you've really trained yourself to fly extra well compared to the one who didn't.

I would treat flying like aerial piloting; skill rolls for difficult maneuvers would be quite applicable. Shouldn't Psychic Diagnosis add a bonus to medical skills? Shouldn't Telemechanics add to rolls to repair equipment? That was my point.

Good point- and I've had similar thoughts myself and started writing some stuff out for such- but as an example for Nightmask, not all flyers are the same- look at someone like Superman who just flies forward facing, like a rocket. Then looks at flyers like Falcon (New Cap) or Angel that are aerialists, they fly up, down, do aerial acrobatics, etc. Then there are those like Ralph from the Greatest American Hero, who could barely fly and landed generally by crashing. Not all fliers are created equal.

Nightmask wrote:

wyrmraker wrote:I would start with devising a system where having psychic powers either use skills or give bonuses to the existing skillset. (Magic and super powers would get that too; shouldn't there be a skill for being able to use the power of flight?).

Do you need a skill for walking? Why would you need a skill for flying? If you had a skill for Flight it would be like Running for walking, where you've really trained yourself to fly extra well compared to the one who didn't.

Flight control for mid-air tricks. Flying from A to B is simple enough, rolling through the debris field of a colapsing building to catch a falling person with one arm and blasting a chunk of falling concrete with your EE power, from A to B is another. Think of it like the old Air to Air combat skill.

The Artist Formerly wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

wyrmraker wrote:I would start with devising a system where having psychic powers either use skills or give bonuses to the existing skillset. (Magic and super powers would get that too; shouldn't there be a skill for being able to use the power of flight?).

Do you need a skill for walking? Why would you need a skill for flying? If you had a skill for Flight it would be like Running for walking, where you've really trained yourself to fly extra well compared to the one who didn't.

Flight control for mid-air tricks. Flying from A to B is simple enough, rolling through the debris field of a colapsing building to catch a falling person with one arm and blasting a chunk of falling concrete with your EE power, from A to B is another. Think of it like the old Air to Air combat skill.

Except the Air to Air combat skill is when you're training to handle an aerial vehicle in combat, flight power is a natural ability. Your scenario would have what amounts to him having to roll one or more dodges, a catch check, and a conventional attack role just as you would for someone simply running into a similar scenario. There's nothing about it where he'd require some kind of special skill to do any of that or that he'd suffer penalties like someone trying to handle a high-performance vehicle which is something that's not part of him and requires more effort than simply 'think and do' like with flight or running.

Nightmask wrote:

The Artist Formerly wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

wyrmraker wrote:I would start with devising a system where having psychic powers either use skills or give bonuses to the existing skillset. (Magic and super powers would get that too; shouldn't there be a skill for being able to use the power of flight?).

Do you need a skill for walking? Why would you need a skill for flying? If you had a skill for Flight it would be like Running for walking, where you've really trained yourself to fly extra well compared to the one who didn't.

Flight control for mid-air tricks. Flying from A to B is simple enough, rolling through the debris field of a colapsing building to catch a falling person with one arm and blasting a chunk of falling concrete with your EE power, from A to B is another. Think of it like the old Air to Air combat skill.

Except the Air to Air combat skill is when you're training to handle an aerial vehicle in combat, flight power is a natural ability. Your scenario would have what amounts to him having to roll one or more dodges, a catch check, and a conventional attack role just as you would for someone simply running into a similar scenario. There's nothing about it where he'd require some kind of special skill to do any of that or that he'd suffer penalties like someone trying to handle a high-performance vehicle which is something that's not part of him and requires more effort than simply 'think and do' like with flight or running.

More akin to the Gymnastics/Acrobatics check against sense of balance or back flip.

Wayne B actually touched this idea in the GMs guide. The super villain Shock spent skills for WPs with her powers. This is the same idea, only for movement rather then blasting. Most everyone can run, Steven Hawking not with standing, most of those people can't run parkour style, Steven Hawking included. It takes a skill to pull that off (Acrobatics). This would be the same.

And yeah one could use exactly the rules you laid out, but the flight skill equipped character would be much more adept at it and capable of moving through the environment. After all, almost everyone can punch stuff, that doesn't mean we all have the same abilities as Bruce Lee. It took years of training to do what he did. He refined a thing anyone can do into something only very, very few can.

flatline wrote:I subtract the character's ME bonus from the cost of all psionic powers (with some special cases like Restore PPE). Yes, that means some powers can be used for free if you have a high enough ME.

Hmmm...I was looking at ways to revamp psychics for a more "super" feel, and you've inspired me. I'm going to give psychics and mages bonus ISP and PPE every round equal to their ME or PE bonuses (ME for ISP, PPE for PE). This can be used to offset the cost of power and / or spells, or can be used to replenish reserves.

Thanks Flatline, you just saved me a ton of work!

barna10 wrote:

flatline wrote:I subtract the character's ME bonus from the cost of all psionic powers (with some special cases like Restore PPE). Yes, that means some powers can be used for free if you have a high enough ME.

Hmmm...I was looking at ways to revamp psychics for a more "super" feel, and you've inspired me. I'm going to give psychics and mages bonus ISP and PPE every round equal to their ME or PE bonuses (ME for ISP, PPE for PE). This can be used to offset the cost of power and / or spells, or can be used to replenish reserves.

Thanks Flatline, you just saved me a ton of work!

You're very welcome! I wish you the best of luck in shaping your game to get what you want out of it!

--flatline

flatline wrote:I subtract the character's ME bonus from the cost of all psionic powers (with some special cases like Restore PPE). Yes, that means some powers can be used for free if you have a high enough ME.

I would also define real rules for Astral Projection. The existing description is useless. For example, if you don't return to your body before the duration expires, what happens?

--flatline

AFAICT from descriptions in various games about it, your body dies after a few days.
Personally I dislike the silver cord existing if you can't follow it to your body, since that's it's whole purpose.

fbdaury wrote:Hypnotic Suggestion- When and why did it become a Super ability? Place it into the minor category of Sensitive.

It's been that way in Rifts since '92 (at least that's when my RMB was printed). My guess is that it was moved to the super category to match the rest of the Megaverse.

flatline wrote:I subtract the character's ME bonus from the cost of all psionic powers (with some special cases like Restore PPE). Yes, that means some powers can be used for free if you have a high enough ME.

I like that idea.

I would also define real rules for Astral Projection. The existing description is useless. For example, if you don't return to your body before the duration expires, what happens?

I was always under the impression your body would being wasting away and dying, but I don't ever recall seeing a hard rule on that.

I would add a psionic hardware char template.