Forums of the Megaverse®

Personally, I wouldn't use it. It's a great game on its own but outside of its own setting it does become very unbalancing. A few times now Palladium's done conversions of a sort to make elements of it fit within their grander Megaverse (Rifts Conversion Book 1 Revised, Rifts: Japan and Rifts: China), but these conversions have only served to contradict each other and the source material, and in all cases they were incomplete.

There are several really good hand to hands done in Rifts japan and the china books. Those are what we use. Otherwise we look at the conversion book and see what is needed. As for balance, that's the GM's job.

Meh these are supposed to be good HTH styles that outperform most. Simple fix, just add 2 attacks to all starting attacks. Done.

If that means you get 5 or 6, so be it. As GM just be sure to make sure you put the appropriate limits on them since they do take time to learn and depending on the character they better have a damn good explanation as to how hey get some of the more exotic or specialized/elite martial arts. However you will find that most of the HTH styles will just end up with 3-5 to start so it isn't all that bad. Everything else is usable more or less as is, in my opinion.

I really enjoy N&SS, but I personally find all Palladium games are best used as stand alone games OR with players who are totally mellow and understand that things may need to be tweaked.

Also, I don't add the 2 attacks/actions. I don't find it adds to the combat, just to the complication. But for me, RPG combat is all about speed and cinematics.

Before I dive into this, I'd first like to ask...

Is there anything you want from Ninjas and Super Spies™ that you cannot already do using Rifts®: China and/or Rifts®: Japan?

Check conversion book 1 revised they have a section on N&S

calto40k wrote:Check conversion book 1 revised they have a section on N&S

I agree.... Conversion book is the best place to start on any....Shock..... conversions....

just add +2 apm to the MAFs.
If you choose to allow HU characters to select MAFs (I would suggest only allowing non-powered classes to do so) require a skill investment of at least one skill package. (I would charge two or three for certain ones like tien su and ninjitsu).

You don't have to add two attacks to the N&SS martial arts if you replace the HU2 combat skills (basic, expert, martial arts and assassin) with the "Agent" martial arts from N&SS. Now everyone will be "on the same page", so to speak. The only class this doesn't benefit is the Physical Training power category.

kojax wrote:That is a good question to ask. Thanks for asking it.

What I'm going for is I want to do a Heroes Unlimited campaign that has all the OC's of Ninjas and Superspies in it. I like the idea of mutants facing off against secret agents, or teaming up with them, ... etc. I'm going for a world where the CIA, MI6 and groups like that openly recruit mutants, aliens, and etc. The mutants aren't necessarily trained spies (unless they choose spy skills from within the Heroes Unlimited game), but they get hired by MI6 and work alongside spies in the field.

So the martial arts aspect of Ninjas isn't really too important to me. The OC's are what I'm after.

I watched the entire series of "MI-5" (The BBC show) on Netflix, and all of a sudden I really want to play out the kinds of scenarios I saw on that show, except with Mutants and stuff. It's also inspired in part by watching the Venture Brothers cartoon series, which has all of that blended pretty well in it. That's what motivated me to go out and get Ninjas and Superspies, as well as Mystic China. I thought they would give me a good foundation for spy campaigns. (If I can make them compatible with Heroes)

No problem. So we are talking an S.D.C. setting. Good to know. Now, I don't have the time to write a proper reply (its 3:05am here and I have a game to run in a few hours) but I don't know if this helps or not, but there are some secret agent/spy O.C.C.s for heroes unlimited in one of the books already. I believe the super soldier can specifically cover these things? Its in Powers Unlimited 2? (I think?) I am not sure. Heroes Unlimited isn't my strong suite and I'd have to go digging through books. That said, if you can find the pre-existing super spy (not the one in Rifts), then you won't need to convert anything. Just use the "type" of O.C.C.s from N&S as "inspiration" when picking your skills and designing the organization. I find that the "key" to being a successful game master is making as little work for you as possible and utilizing material that already exists in a flexible a way as possible. Given the flexibility of Heroes Unlimited, you could REALLY replicate the other O.C.C.s without needing to adapt or convert anything. I hope what I have said here has helped somewhat.

I was very rushed. Please let me know how it goes and how everything unfolds. I'll check back tomorrow night after my game and help further if needed.

kojax wrote:I like the idea of sacrificing a whole skill package. That sounds fair to me.

For Tien Su and Ninjitsu it will require some thought. 2 skill programs instead of one sounds fair. But I want to make sure they take some espionage skills to go with it if they're going to be Ninjas. Or maybe I could choose one of the education levels on the "education table" and turn it into "Ninja". So you can only get Ninjitsu if you roll that level. (4 years college, and Bachelor's degree seem kind of redundant, so maybe eliminate one of them.)

No need for "additional" skills...
The MAFs come prepackaged with skills.
One thing to remember about N&Ss MAFs is that they really are full Skill packages in their own right.
When you take a MAF you get everything that comes with it.

Keep the +1d4 to PP. The versions of skills in games like N&SS and TMNT are unique to their settings so you have to go to that dimension to learn them (or possibly could learn that version from a traveler who learned it there). We are not mandated to 'update' old skill stats to the versions from newer games like Dead Reign or RUE.

The problem you get with that is the old version of my character, where I could never be sneak attacked, had +15 to strike hand to hand, 13 attacks per melee, +16 on initiative, 582 MDC and could boost my stats to silly heights on the fly...

Not a godling, not a dragon in disguise, as a human (15 character levels, but still...)

It's much more balanced now.

How did you manage to give yourself MDC when chi only adds SDC?

My bigger question is how did he have 13 APM when at best I think you can hit 8 maybe 9 in N&SS since the APM and bonuses from 2 MAFs do not stack and are only applicable when using the specified form?

jaymz wrote:My bigger question is how did he have 13 APM when at best I think you can hit 8 maybe 9 in N&SS since the APM and bonuses from 2 MAFs do not stack and are only applicable when using the specified form?

Moo Gi Gong and Hrwang Do being the exceptions to this rule... (But even then they only add up to at best +8 or 9. IIRC)

Shao-Lin is also an exception (with weapon forms) as is Lee Kwan Choo...

WHY AM I GIVING AWAY MY SECRETS

MDC might have something to with body harding I thaght that chi powers half sdc as mdc in rifts.

Chi powers do 1/2 damage to MDC beings. There's two ways to interpret that:

*a 200 damage chi attack will destroy 1 MDC
*a 200 damage chi attack will destroy 100 MDC

The former literal reading prevents chi from heavily influencing MDC settings, which it logically would do.

The latter (possibly closer to intention but less literal, since it doesn't mention changing damage to MD) lets chi-attackers go crazy though.

Tor wrote:Keep the +1d4 to PP. The versions of skills in games like N&SS and TMNT are unique to their settings so you have to go to that dimension to learn them (or possibly could learn that version from a traveler who learned it there). We are not mandated to 'update' old skill stats to the versions from newer games like Dead Reign or RUE.

I see it as the fact that they have the advantage of living in a civilized world where you can find a brilliant coach. In Rifts or other MDC environments the PP is far less meaningful. Your dodges and parries are minimally effective vs energy weapons given the penalties. Even with the initiative bonus for absurd PP you aren't getting much. Buffing PS to be able to use support weapons helps survival far more.