Dragons(and others) in space

[Looonatic]

Today, the party dragon ended up facing explosive decompression and later suffocation. The subject of how long dragons, other supernatural creatures and creatures of magic can survive in space/without air came up. I couldn't find a quick and easy rule, and I have just begun scouring the books for a less obvious reference. But if anybody knows where there are rules regarding space and the supernatural(of if such rules exist), I'd be grateful.

This will most likely not be the last time our party dragon has to deal with space.

[Nightmask]

I imagine explosive decompression really isn't a problem for something whose body is naturally MDC and regenerates, nor the rest of the problems resulting from being in space, so mostly it'd be a question of how long it can last holding its breath and whether or not its flight is considered magical enough to move around in space on its own to try and fly back to someplace safe.

[Dragon Mage]

Hey,

Use the rules outlined in Rifts Dimensional Book 12: Dimensional Outbreak pg. 98. They are for supernatural beings but you can use them for Creatures of Magic if you want.

dragonmage.

[taalismn]

I imagine explosive decompression really isn't a problem for something whose body is naturally MDC and regenerates, nor the rest of the problems resulting from being in space, so mostly it'd be a question of how long it can last holding its breath and whether or not its flight is considered magical enough to move around in space on its own to try and fly back to someplace safe.

Or in its dying throes, rip open the spacecraft and take everybody else down with it.

[guardiandashi]

I imagine explosive decompression really isn't a problem for something whose body is naturally MDC and regenerates, nor the rest of the problems resulting from being in space, so mostly it'd be a question of how long it can last holding its breath and whether or not its flight is considered magical enough to move around in space on its own to try and fly back to someplace safe.

Or in its dying throes, rip open the spacecraft and take everybody else down with it.

I was thinking if its a mdc creature you can more or less ignore a lot of the nasty decompression heat and cold issues (to a point) but I believe the rifts ultimate edition has under the attributes specific mods for attributes.
I think for example supernatural Endurance (PE) means you can hold your breathe for 1 min per point of PE for example

[Nightmask]

I imagine explosive decompression really isn't a problem for something whose body is naturally MDC and regenerates, nor the rest of the problems resulting from being in space, so mostly it'd be a question of how long it can last holding its breath and whether or not its flight is considered magical enough to move around in space on its own to try and fly back to someplace safe.

Or in its dying throes, rip open the spacecraft and take everybody else down with it.

I was thinking if its a mdc creature you can more or less ignore a lot of the nasty decompression heat and cold issues (to a point) but I believe the rifts ultimate edition has under the attributes specific mods for attributes.
I think for example supernatural Endurance (PE) means you can hold your breathe for 1 min per point of PE for example

You're leaving off their high regeneration rate, magical regeneration that can spontaneously draw in matter from somewhere to replace entire limbs if need be. Even if space could inflict damage on them it's not going to rise to a level that it would actually cause cumulative harm with the passing of time, they heal simply too fast. So all that matters is how long they can hold their breath and whether or not they can move under their own power (and remember there's always the option of Dimensional Teleport if memory serves if they can't expect rescue where they are).

[Looonatic]

I think we have an interesting subject for a Rifter article: Space Dragons!

[MaxxSterling]

Why isn't this dragon just teleporting away? If not, there are rules for this stuff in the books. Not sure where at the moment. Try GMG skill list.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Dragons in space? Are there Pigs too? Piiiiggssss Iiiiinnnn Sssspppaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacccccccccceeeeeeeee

[Tor]

Whatever penalties dragons incur, I saw we halve (or completely eliminate) them for Zaayr Crystal dragons. Those guys look made for space.

[Looonatic]

Why isn't this dragon just teleporting away? If not, there are rules for this stuff in the books. Not sure where at the moment. Try GMG skill list.

Well, he's a hatchling and he keeps failing his teleport checks. In fact, we seem to have determined that he can only succeed in his rolls in a complete vacuum.

[Looonatic]

Dragons in space? Are there Pigs too? Piiiiggssss Iiiiinnnn Sssspppaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacccccccccceeeeeeeee

I certainly hope so. Mmmm.... Space Bacon.

[Tor]

Perhaps the dragon is trapped in the realm of Ereshkegal.

[Svartalf]

If Breetai could survive several minutes in space without a suit, odds are that a dragon can do as well, until his supply of air is out... meaning not that long (are there rules for that?)

[Tor]

I seem to recall something about Baalrog and Beasts being able to not only survive in space, but their flying ability somehow works there even though there's no actual air to push against. Makes me wonder if the same applies to dragons.

Of course magical flight in space doesn't necessarily mean you can fly TO space, since you could still have an altitude limit in an atmosphere, since you might have to overcome escape velocity.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Please cite the locations of the text for the rifts dragon statments.

[eliakon]

Rifts Dragons do Not suffer explosive decompression in space, as they can operate in space or underwater without armor, but still need to breathe unless using magic (which most would) to operate in space. their magical flight still allows them to move.
in AU/SDC games, any creature with an armor rating higher then 14 can do the same.

in an SDC game anything with a natural AR of 13+ takes half damage from decompression, cold, and the other environmental damage but they are not immune. (AUGG pg 213)

[Tor]

Damn... Moloch is set.

[Timmee]

Here's a little more to the story. I (playing the hatchling, at the time in human form) was trapped in a gunner's ball turret of a spaceship, when it was ejected from the ship. There wasn't a complete seal on the hatch, which meant that in addition to no life support, what little o2 was in there was leaking out (hence the decompression).


BTW, since this thread started, I have succeeded in teleporting while NOT in a vacuum.

[Nekira Sudacne]

as a dragon hatchling you won't be dieing any time soon, till your lost MDC or hit points drops to zero...

Which is really not as hard as hatchlings might like to think.

Dragons hatchings don't come with good anti-missile defenses installed. a good volley of 4-6 AP minimissiles has a decent chance of oneshotting them.

[eliakon]

as a dragon hatchling you won't be dieing any time soon, till your lost MDC or hit points drops to zero...

Which would only take a couple of minutes of exposure to outer space to do. Space in Palladium is DEADLY.

[Nightmask]

not really : let's say Average Dragon 250 MDC. he has 1d4+1 Minutes before the airlock actually loses all the air during a breach... after that, he begins to lose MDC from radiation at the rate of 1d6+8 (cold resistance or immune types or those who are able to turn into non living forms (mist or energy for example, but not water or fire, which freeze or vanquish)
It states megaheroes are able to hold for 10 times longer then humans, I believe Supernatural PS automatically grants 1/5 or 1/10 fatigue.. That means A baby Dragon, can hold their breath for upto an hour before he starts running out of breath.

Since when did they retcon dragons to be vulnerable to radiation? Or for that matter when did space become so radioactive being in a Chernobyl-style nuclear reactor would expose you to less radiation?

[eliakon]

not really : let's say Average Dragon 250 MDC. he has 1d4+1 Minutes before the airlock actually loses all the air during a breach... after that, he begins to lose MDC from radiation at the rate of 1d6+8 (cold resistance or immune types or those who are able to turn into non living forms (mist or energy for example, but not water or fire, which freeze or vanquish)
It states megaheroes are able to hold for 10 times longer then humans, I believe Supernatural PS automatically grants 1/5 or 1/10 fatigue.. That means A baby Dragon, can hold their breath for upto an hour before he starts running out of breath.

A couple problems with that
1-hatchling dragons aren't automatically mega-hero's, so that doesn't apply (yes some megaheros are dragons, not all dragons are megaheros anymore than all humans are megaheros)
2-the rules on space exposure explicitly say you cant hold your breath

So in AU he has 1 minute before he automatically looses all his SDC, then he gets to make a save, at a cumulative -2 every ROUND. On a SUCESSFUL save he loses 10% of his HP, on a failure he loses ALL his remaining HP and goes unconscious. He then dies at the end of that round. This gives a best case scenario of 1 minute + 9 rounds (2.25 minutes) for a total of 3 minutes 15 seconds in space.

I Haven't found MD rules, but I would assume its more or less replace the word SDC with '50% of MDC', and HP with 'Remaining MDC'
If your GM allows you to halve this damage due to your AR (I think the AR is to protect from cold not suffocation but some may differ)
that would give you TWO minutes, and then, at BEST 19 rounds (4.75 minutes) for a whopping 6 minutes, 45 seconds......or about a tenth of an hour.

This also ignores cold damage, pressure damage (bends from MiO), radiation damage, or anything ELSE, just straight vacuum.

[Nightmask]

Aliens Unlimited Galaxy guide. and ... Outerspace is FULL of radiation. thousands of particles of it. Only reason We're not fried is because of the Magnetic field of the earth!

Considering AU: GG would be rating radiation damage in SDC levels AND there's no way it was rating them in the mega-damage range then there's no way radiation in space is going to harm even a Hatchling dragon (and I doubt it listed dragons as being vulnerable to radiation either, since normally they're immune to radiation).

[Nightmask]

well.. there's radiation and then there's Cosmic rays... cosmic rays do 5d6 MD per melee , according to certain sources and rifts spells.

Well that's ridiculous and clearly an example of 'Science Fiction Writers have no sense of scale'. Space would be instantly lethal for all SDC lifeforms and pretty much all MDC lifeforms too which is clearly not true and there's no reason to think radiation in space in Rifts Earth or Phase World is thousands if not millions of times more intense than what it would be in real life.

[eliakon]

the only rules on MDC beings in space appear in rifter 10 and they just up the damage taken and still iterate dragons can hold their breath because they're not mere mortals.

supernatural creatures, megaheroes (true dragons are supernatural creatures in HU, See GM guide) can hold their breath in space.
you may disagree, but you re also wrong!

a few problems with these statements.
1) Rifter 10 isn't canon, but an optional rule
2) Rifter 10 does not say anywhere in it that they can hold their breath
3) There ARE rules, in both MiO and AUGG that say that you CAN'T hold your breath


Thus
1) Dragons can't hold their breath
2) 1d6x10 MD per melee (The damage rate in Rifter 10) will kill a dragon hatchling dead in a couple minutes

[Nightmask]

the only rules on MDC beings in space appear in rifter 10 and they just up the damage taken and still iterate dragons can hold their breath because they're not mere mortals.

supernatural creatures, megaheroes (true dragons are supernatural creatures in HU, See GM guide) can hold their breath in space.
you may disagree, but you re also wrong!

a few problems with these statements.
1) Rifter 10 isn't canon, but an optional rule
2) Rifter 10 does not say anywhere in it that they can hold their breath
3) There ARE rules, in both MiO and AUGG that say that you CAN'T hold your breath


Thus
1) Dragons can't hold their breath
2) 1d6x10 MD per melee (The damage rate in Rifter 10) will kill a dragon hatchling dead in a couple minutes

Rules that cover SDC creatures and settings (and if you're calling the Rifter 10 material non-canon you can't very well selectively say some parts are and some parts aren't), not MDC creatures. An MDC creature is likely tough enough to have no problems holding its breath just as it can resist explosive decompression (since it's body tissues are MDC material and not SDC material), and as I note with the idea of space dealing MD just from the radiation damage like 1d6X10 MD to a mega-damage creature per melee is ridiculously high, the conditions in space while hostile to SDC life is not going to be anywhere near that dangerous to a mega-damage creature especially one with the degrees of invulnerabilities and rapid regeneration we see in something like a dragon, even a hatchling.

Sounds like too much effort to keep space lethal for everything no matter how wrong and inaccurate that actually would be.

[eliakon]

the only rules on MDC beings in space appear in rifter 10 and they just up the damage taken and still iterate dragons can hold their breath because they're not mere mortals.

supernatural creatures, megaheroes (true dragons are supernatural creatures in HU, See GM guide) can hold their breath in space.
you may disagree, but you re also wrong!

a few problems with these statements.
1) Rifter 10 isn't canon, but an optional rule
2) Rifter 10 does not say anywhere in it that they can hold their breath
3) There ARE rules, in both MiO and AUGG that say that you CAN'T hold your breath


Thus
1) Dragons can't hold their breath
2) 1d6x10 MD per melee (The damage rate in Rifter 10) will kill a dragon hatchling dead in a couple minutes

Rules that cover SDC creatures and settings (and if you're calling the Rifter 10 material non-canon you can't very well selectively say some parts are and some parts aren't), not MDC creatures. An MDC creature is likely tough enough to have no problems holding its breath just as it can resist explosive decompression (since it's body tissues are MDC material and not SDC material), and as I note with the idea of space dealing MD just from the radiation damage like 1d6X10 MD to a mega-damage creature per melee is ridiculously high, the conditions in space while hostile to SDC life is not going to be anywhere near that dangerous to a mega-damage creature especially one with the degrees of invulnerabilities and rapid regeneration we see in something like a dragon, even a hatchling.

Sounds like too much effort to keep space lethal for everything no matter how wrong and inaccurate that actually would be.

I am using the SDC rules for space from AUGG because, they are the only canon rules on space we have. The damage there would affect a dragon since in AU a dragon is SDC.
The Rifter rules have SDC beings dying in 1d4x10 seconds, and tougher beings taking hideous damage.
So we have two options
1) you can take the AUGG % damage rules
OR
2) you can take the Rifter 1d6x10 Damage rules
EITHER of which will kill a Dragon Hatchling dead in minutes. And neither of which allows for dragons (or anyone else) to hold their breath.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I gave a correction after you responded.

Also, while they can Operate from space, they are still taking damage in space, but not enough to kill them, unless left for a very long time in space.
a hatchling dragon could Operate for hours in space before the damage overwhelms him.

The Citation request still stands.

Citation request means that you are requested that you state where the text is that supports your statement. Usually in the the 'book page paragraph' form.

[Nightmask]

the only rules on MDC beings in space appear in rifter 10 and they just up the damage taken and still iterate dragons can hold their breath because they're not mere mortals.

supernatural creatures, megaheroes (true dragons are supernatural creatures in HU, See GM guide) can hold their breath in space.
you may disagree, but you re also wrong!

a few problems with these statements.
1) Rifter 10 isn't canon, but an optional rule
2) Rifter 10 does not say anywhere in it that they can hold their breath
3) There ARE rules, in both MiO and AUGG that say that you CAN'T hold your breath


Thus
1) Dragons can't hold their breath
2) 1d6x10 MD per melee (The damage rate in Rifter 10) will kill a dragon hatchling dead in a couple minutes

Rules that cover SDC creatures and settings (and if you're calling the Rifter 10 material non-canon you can't very well selectively say some parts are and some parts aren't), not MDC creatures. An MDC creature is likely tough enough to have no problems holding its breath just as it can resist explosive decompression (since it's body tissues are MDC material and not SDC material), and as I note with the idea of space dealing MD just from the radiation damage like 1d6X10 MD to a mega-damage creature per melee is ridiculously high, the conditions in space while hostile to SDC life is not going to be anywhere near that dangerous to a mega-damage creature especially one with the degrees of invulnerabilities and rapid regeneration we see in something like a dragon, even a hatchling.

Sounds like too much effort to keep space lethal for everything no matter how wrong and inaccurate that actually would be.

I am using the SDC rules for space from AUGG because, they are the only canon rules on space we have. The damage there would affect a dragon since in AU a dragon is SDC.
The Rifter rules have SDC beings dying in 1d4x10 seconds, and tougher beings taking hideous damage.
So we have two options
1) you can take the AUGG % damage rules
OR
2) you can take the Rifter 1d6x10 Damage rules
EITHER of which will kill a Dragon Hatchling dead in minutes. And neither of which allows for dragons (or anyone else) to hold their breath.

So using the 'either/or' fallacy, since there are other options. First given AU:GG is written as an SDC setting clearly it's impossible to claim that those rules include anything as ridiculous as space dealing 1d6x10 mega-damage to living beings (I also haven't seen it where those rules specifically say hatchling dragons are vulnerable to radiation, cold, or vacuum). The best you can claim is that space deals a single point of mega-damage to MDC beings that are vulnerable to radiation, cold, and vacuum, you can't claim that it scales up to dealing mega-damage like it deals SDC damage to SDC beings.

So where's the page that says hatchling dragons are vulnerable to radiation? Triax under the U-rounds entry refers to creatures like dragons being immune to radiation, which would include the radiation in space.

The cold of space isn't actually that cold in general, since vacuum acts as an insulator so you aren't radiating off that much heat so just how vulnerable are dragons and other such beings to cold?

How much stress does vacuum put on a living creature that's made up of mega-damage tissues and hide? You're talking one atmosphere difference, against creatures that have hide and tissue that's durable like a starship's hull, certainly way more durable than the simple SDC alloys we use today to hold an atmosphere inside a spaceship. Also just because the rules have a general issue with holding your breath in space doesn't mean that there aren't creatures that can do it, certainly mega-damage creatures should have the capacity to do it what with all that mega-damage tissue and supernatural PS leaving all their tissues and muscles unfathomably stronger than normal SDC tissues (which again if you're using AU:GG rules they're just talking about SDC creatures in SDC settings and can't be said to qualify as being equally valid in an MDC setting).

[eliakon]

the only rules on MDC beings in space appear in rifter 10 and they just up the damage taken and still iterate dragons can hold their breath because they're not mere mortals.

supernatural creatures, megaheroes (true dragons are supernatural creatures in HU, See GM guide) can hold their breath in space.
you may disagree, but you re also wrong!

a few problems with these statements.
1) Rifter 10 isn't canon, but an optional rule
2) Rifter 10 does not say anywhere in it that they can hold their breath
3) There ARE rules, in both MiO and AUGG that say that you CAN'T hold your breath


Thus
1) Dragons can't hold their breath
2) 1d6x10 MD per melee (The damage rate in Rifter 10) will kill a dragon hatchling dead in a couple minutes

Rules that cover SDC creatures and settings (and if you're calling the Rifter 10 material non-canon you can't very well selectively say some parts are and some parts aren't), not MDC creatures. An MDC creature is likely tough enough to have no problems holding its breath just as it can resist explosive decompression (since it's body tissues are MDC material and not SDC material), and as I note with the idea of space dealing MD just from the radiation damage like 1d6X10 MD to a mega-damage creature per melee is ridiculously high, the conditions in space while hostile to SDC life is not going to be anywhere near that dangerous to a mega-damage creature especially one with the degrees of invulnerabilities and rapid regeneration we see in something like a dragon, even a hatchling.

Sounds like too much effort to keep space lethal for everything no matter how wrong and inaccurate that actually would be.

I am using the SDC rules for space from AUGG because, they are the only canon rules on space we have. The damage there would affect a dragon since in AU a dragon is SDC.
The Rifter rules have SDC beings dying in 1d4x10 seconds, and tougher beings taking hideous damage.
So we have two options
1) you can take the AUGG % damage rules
OR
2) you can take the Rifter 1d6x10 Damage rules
EITHER of which will kill a Dragon Hatchling dead in minutes. And neither of which allows for dragons (or anyone else) to hold their breath.

So using the 'either/or' fallacy, since there are other options. First given AU:GG is written as an SDC setting clearly it's impossible to claim that those rules include anything as ridiculous as space dealing 1d6x10 mega-damage to living beings (I also haven't seen it where those rules specifically say hatchling dragons are vulnerable to radiation, cold, or vacuum).

I would think that invulnerability would work the other way, you need to have an explicit citation that you are invulnerable to something, otherwise your vulnerable.

The best you can claim is that space deals a single point of mega-damage to MDC beings that are vulnerable to radiation, cold, and vacuum, you can't claim that it scales up to dealing mega-damage like it deals SDC damage to SDC beings.

No the rules in AUGG say that you lose all your SDC in 1 minute, and then you have to make a save. On a successful save you lose 10% of your HP, on an unsuccessful save you fall unconscious and die. Scaling that to an MDC world it would seem that you will have to decide how convert them. They do offer that 'super tough beings' (in AU nAR14+) take 1/2 damage. Every other attack in HU that does damage to HP is generally converted to MDC 1:1....so 5% or 10% of HP is 5% or 10% of MDC.

The second option is the rules in Rifter 10. THOSE have MDC beings taking 1d6x10 damage per round. Since those are written for rifts they don't have to be scaled....

The Third Option of course is to just make a house rule for your game. But since the original poster was asking for actual rules that existed....

So where's the page that says hatchling dragons are vulnerable to radiation? Triax under the U-rounds entry refers to creatures like dragons being immune to radiation, which would include the radiation in space.

Radiation damage would be separate from the damage from decompression/being in a vacuum which is what is being discussed here.
Also to be precise it says that ADULT dragons are immune, so hatchlings may or may not be immune

The cold of space isn't actually that cold in general, since vacuum acts as an insulator so you aren't radiating off that much heat so just how vulnerable are dragons and other such beings to cold?

Cold damage would be another added damage (there are rules in various books that could be used)

How much stress does vacuum put on a living creature that's made up of mega-damage tissues and hide? You're talking one atmosphere difference, against creatures that have hide and tissue that's durable like a starship's hull, certainly way more durable than the simple SDC alloys we use today to hold an atmosphere inside a spaceship.

So house rule it then. I am just pointing out the two rules that actually exist. One is for SDC settings, one is non-canon.

Also just because the rules have a general issue with holding your breath in space doesn't mean that there aren't creatures that can do it, certainly mega-damage creatures should have the capacity to do it what with all that mega-damage tissue and supernatural PS leaving all their tissues and muscles unfathomably stronger than normal SDC tissues (which again if you're using AU:GG rules they're just talking about SDC creatures in SDC settings and can't be said to qualify as being equally valid in an MDC setting).

You are free to make a house rule that they can hold their breath. The rules say otherwise but your free to do as you wish. The AUGG rules apply equally to Megaheros, Gods, Robots, Dragons, and everything else in that world...including things with supernatural PS and invulnerable things..

[Nightmask]

So using the 'either/or' fallacy, since there are other options. First given AU:GG is written as an SDC setting clearly it's impossible to claim that those rules include anything as ridiculous as space dealing 1d6x10 mega-damage to living beings (I also haven't seen it where those rules specifically say hatchling dragons are vulnerable to radiation, cold, or vacuum).

I would think that invulnerability would work the other way, you need to have an explicit citation that you are invulnerable to something, otherwise your vulnerable.

Except dragons are resistant or immune to a number of things, like radiation, so you'd need a ruling that somehow they still took damage from those elements while in space.

The best you can claim is that space deals a single point of mega-damage to MDC beings that are vulnerable to radiation, cold, and vacuum, you can't claim that it scales up to dealing mega-damage like it deals SDC damage to SDC beings.

No the rules in AUGG say that you lose all your SDC in 1 minute, and then you have to make a save. On a successful save you lose 10% of your HP, on an unsuccessful save you fall unconscious and die. Scaling that to an MDC world it would seem that you will have to decide how convert them. They do offer that 'super tough beings' (in AU nAR14+) take 1/2 damage. Every other attack in HU that does damage to HP is generally converted to MDC 1:1....so 5% or 10% of HP is 5% or 10% of MDC.

The second option is the rules in Rifter 10. THOSE have MDC beings taking 1d6x10 damage per round. Since those are written for rifts they don't have to be scaled....

The Third Option of course is to just make a house rule for your game. But since the original poster was asking for actual rules that existed....

You keep presenting scaling it as if that's a valid option or even a canon option, it's not. There's zero to support the idea, it requires the unsupported assumption that mega-damage creatures are immensely more invulnerable to the effects of vacuum, radiation, and the other bad effects of being in space. Since there's nothing to support the idea that MDC creatures are actually super-vulnerable to the effects of space you can't scale the damage because it's not scalable, since the damage dealt is way below what constitutes mega-damage the best you can manage is because it's high enough SDC damage that it might deal 1 mega-damage point but it certainly won't be dealing damage like being shot by a CS railgun every melee.

So where's the page that says hatchling dragons are vulnerable to radiation? Triax under the U-rounds entry refers to creatures like dragons being immune to radiation, which would include the radiation in space.

Radiation damage would be separate from the damage from decompression/being in a vacuum which is what is being discussed here.
Also to be precise it says that ADULT dragons are immune, so hatchlings may or may not be immune

Given so far all I've heard is that 'space deals x amount of damage when exposed to it' not that 'vacuum deals x amount of damage' or 'space radiation deals x amount of damage' which would mean the overall effects of space deal x amount of damage. You still need to show that hatchlings don't have the same general immunities as the adults, since it's not been shown yet that they're vulnerable to radiation.

The cold of space isn't actually that cold in general, since vacuum acts as an insulator so you aren't radiating off that much heat so just how vulnerable are dragons and other such beings to cold?

Cold damage would be another added damage (there are rules in various books that could be used)

No, cold damage is included in that 'space deals x amount of damage' statement, it's not broken down with a 'vacuum does x, the cold of space does y, the radiation does z'. It's presented as a 'all the things together deal this much damage', so you can't say 'no cold is a separate added damage' because it isn't.

How much stress does vacuum put on a living creature that's made up of mega-damage tissues and hide? You're talking one atmosphere difference, against creatures that have hide and tissue that's durable like a starship's hull, certainly way more durable than the simple SDC alloys we use today to hold an atmosphere inside a spaceship.

So house rule it then. I am just pointing out the two rules that actually exist. One is for SDC settings, one is non-canon.

And the SDC rules don't apply since they don't scale as you want them too (that would be a house rule), if they do apply since they don't scale then space is barely an inconvenience to even a hatchling dragon.

Also just because the rules have a general issue with holding your breath in space doesn't mean that there aren't creatures that can do it, certainly mega-damage creatures should have the capacity to do it what with all that mega-damage tissue and supernatural PS leaving all their tissues and muscles unfathomably stronger than normal SDC tissues (which again if you're using AU:GG rules they're just talking about SDC creatures in SDC settings and can't be said to qualify as being equally valid in an MDC setting).

You are free to make a house rule that they can hold their breath. The rules say otherwise but your free to do as you wish. The AUGG rules apply equally to Megaheros, Gods, Robots, Dragons, and everything else in that world...including things with supernatural PS and invulnerable things..

The rules from an SDC setting where all the creatures are still made up of relatively vulnerable SDC tissues, so the rules don't actually say what you think they say. They don't say creatures like dragons can't hold their breath in space in a mega-damage setting because they're rules for SDC creatures in a non-MDC setting.

[eliakon]

<Spoilered for Length>

Spoiler:

So using the 'either/or' fallacy, since there are other options. First given AU:GG is written as an SDC setting clearly it's impossible to claim that those rules include anything as ridiculous as space dealing 1d6x10 mega-damage to living beings (I also haven't seen it where those rules specifically say hatchling dragons are vulnerable to radiation, cold, or vacuum).

I would think that invulnerability would work the other way, you need to have an explicit citation that you are invulnerable to something, otherwise your vulnerable.

Except dragons are resistant or immune to a number of things, like radiation, so you'd need a ruling that somehow they still took damage from those elements while in space.

The best you can claim is that space deals a single point of mega-damage to MDC beings that are vulnerable to radiation, cold, and vacuum, you can't claim that it scales up to dealing mega-damage like it deals SDC damage to SDC beings.

No the rules in AUGG say that you lose all your SDC in 1 minute, and then you have to make a save. On a successful save you lose 10% of your HP, on an unsuccessful save you fall unconscious and die. Scaling that to an MDC world it would seem that you will have to decide how convert them. They do offer that 'super tough beings' (in AU nAR14+) take 1/2 damage. Every other attack in HU that does damage to HP is generally converted to MDC 1:1....so 5% or 10% of HP is 5% or 10% of MDC.

The second option is the rules in Rifter 10. THOSE have MDC beings taking 1d6x10 damage per round. Since those are written for rifts they don't have to be scaled....

The Third Option of course is to just make a house rule for your game. But since the original poster was asking for actual rules that existed....

You keep presenting scaling it as if that's a valid option or even a canon option, it's not. There's zero to support the idea, it requires the unsupported assumption that mega-damage creatures are immensely more invulnerable to the effects of vacuum, radiation, and the other bad effects of being in space. Since there's nothing to support the idea that MDC creatures are actually super-vulnerable to the effects of space you can't scale the damage because it's not scalable, since the damage dealt is way below what constitutes mega-damage the best you can manage is because it's high enough SDC damage that it might deal 1 mega-damage point but it certainly won't be dealing damage like being shot by a CS railgun every melee.

So where's the page that says hatchling dragons are vulnerable to radiation? Triax under the U-rounds entry refers to creatures like dragons being immune to radiation, which would include the radiation in space.

Radiation damage would be separate from the damage from decompression/being in a vacuum which is what is being discussed here.
Also to be precise it says that ADULT dragons are immune, so hatchlings may or may not be immune

Given so far all I've heard is that 'space deals x amount of damage when exposed to it' not that 'vacuum deals x amount of damage' or 'space radiation deals x amount of damage' which would mean the overall effects of space deal x amount of damage. You still need to show that hatchlings don't have the same general immunities as the adults, since it's not been shown yet that they're vulnerable to radiation.

The cold of space isn't actually that cold in general, since vacuum acts as an insulator so you aren't radiating off that much heat so just how vulnerable are dragons and other such beings to cold?

Cold damage would be another added damage (there are rules in various books that could be used)

No, cold damage is included in that 'space deals x amount of damage' statement, it's not broken down with a 'vacuum does x, the cold of space does y, the radiation does z'. It's presented as a 'all the things together deal this much damage', so you can't say 'no cold is a separate added damage' because it isn't.

How much stress does vacuum put on a living creature that's made up of mega-damage tissues and hide? You're talking one atmosphere difference, against creatures that have hide and tissue that's durable like a starship's hull, certainly way more durable than the simple SDC alloys we use today to hold an atmosphere inside a spaceship.

So house rule it then. I am just pointing out the two rules that actually exist. One is for SDC settings, one is non-canon.

And the SDC rules don't apply since they don't scale as you want them too (that would be a house rule), if they do apply since they don't scale then space is barely an inconvenience to even a hatchling dragon.

Also just because the rules have a general issue with holding your breath in space doesn't mean that there aren't creatures that can do it, certainly mega-damage creatures should have the capacity to do it what with all that mega-damage tissue and supernatural PS leaving all their tissues and muscles unfathomably stronger than normal SDC tissues (which again if you're using AU:GG rules they're just talking about SDC creatures in SDC settings and can't be said to qualify as being equally valid in an MDC setting).

You are free to make a house rule that they can hold their breath. The rules say otherwise but your free to do as you wish. The AUGG rules apply equally to Megaheros, Gods, Robots, Dragons, and everything else in that world...including things with supernatural PS and invulnerable things..

The rules from an SDC setting where all the creatures are still made up of relatively vulnerable SDC tissues, so the rules don't actually say what you think they say. They don't say creatures like dragons can't hold their breath in space in a mega-damage setting because they're rules for SDC creatures in a non-MDC setting.

Except that MiO ALSO doesn't let you hold your breath, again no listed exceptions, and that IS (half of it at least) a mega damage setting.
As I said though your free to make up a house rule if you want, but the RAW is no holding your breath in space.

[Nightmask]

<Spoilered for Length>

Spoiler:

So using the 'either/or' fallacy, since there are other options. First given AU:GG is written as an SDC setting clearly it's impossible to claim that those rules include anything as ridiculous as space dealing 1d6x10 mega-damage to living beings (I also haven't seen it where those rules specifically say hatchling dragons are vulnerable to radiation, cold, or vacuum).

I would think that invulnerability would work the other way, you need to have an explicit citation that you are invulnerable to something, otherwise your vulnerable.

Except dragons are resistant or immune to a number of things, like radiation, so you'd need a ruling that somehow they still took damage from those elements while in space.

The best you can claim is that space deals a single point of mega-damage to MDC beings that are vulnerable to radiation, cold, and vacuum, you can't claim that it scales up to dealing mega-damage like it deals SDC damage to SDC beings.

No the rules in AUGG say that you lose all your SDC in 1 minute, and then you have to make a save. On a successful save you lose 10% of your HP, on an unsuccessful save you fall unconscious and die. Scaling that to an MDC world it would seem that you will have to decide how convert them. They do offer that 'super tough beings' (in AU nAR14+) take 1/2 damage. Every other attack in HU that does damage to HP is generally converted to MDC 1:1....so 5% or 10% of HP is 5% or 10% of MDC.

The second option is the rules in Rifter 10. THOSE have MDC beings taking 1d6x10 damage per round. Since those are written for rifts they don't have to be scaled....

The Third Option of course is to just make a house rule for your game. But since the original poster was asking for actual rules that existed....

You keep presenting scaling it as if that's a valid option or even a canon option, it's not. There's zero to support the idea, it requires the unsupported assumption that mega-damage creatures are immensely more invulnerable to the effects of vacuum, radiation, and the other bad effects of being in space. Since there's nothing to support the idea that MDC creatures are actually super-vulnerable to the effects of space you can't scale the damage because it's not scalable, since the damage dealt is way below what constitutes mega-damage the best you can manage is because it's high enough SDC damage that it might deal 1 mega-damage point but it certainly won't be dealing damage like being shot by a CS railgun every melee.

So where's the page that says hatchling dragons are vulnerable to radiation? Triax under the U-rounds entry refers to creatures like dragons being immune to radiation, which would include the radiation in space.

Radiation damage would be separate from the damage from decompression/being in a vacuum which is what is being discussed here.
Also to be precise it says that ADULT dragons are immune, so hatchlings may or may not be immune

Given so far all I've heard is that 'space deals x amount of damage when exposed to it' not that 'vacuum deals x amount of damage' or 'space radiation deals x amount of damage' which would mean the overall effects of space deal x amount of damage. You still need to show that hatchlings don't have the same general immunities as the adults, since it's not been shown yet that they're vulnerable to radiation.

The cold of space isn't actually that cold in general, since vacuum acts as an insulator so you aren't radiating off that much heat so just how vulnerable are dragons and other such beings to cold?

Cold damage would be another added damage (there are rules in various books that could be used)

No, cold damage is included in that 'space deals x amount of damage' statement, it's not broken down with a 'vacuum does x, the cold of space does y, the radiation does z'. It's presented as a 'all the things together deal this much damage', so you can't say 'no cold is a separate added damage' because it isn't.

How much stress does vacuum put on a living creature that's made up of mega-damage tissues and hide? You're talking one atmosphere difference, against creatures that have hide and tissue that's durable like a starship's hull, certainly way more durable than the simple SDC alloys we use today to hold an atmosphere inside a spaceship.

So house rule it then. I am just pointing out the two rules that actually exist. One is for SDC settings, one is non-canon.

And the SDC rules don't apply since they don't scale as you want them too (that would be a house rule), if they do apply since they don't scale then space is barely an inconvenience to even a hatchling dragon.

Also just because the rules have a general issue with holding your breath in space doesn't mean that there aren't creatures that can do it, certainly mega-damage creatures should have the capacity to do it what with all that mega-damage tissue and supernatural PS leaving all their tissues and muscles unfathomably stronger than normal SDC tissues (which again if you're using AU:GG rules they're just talking about SDC creatures in SDC settings and can't be said to qualify as being equally valid in an MDC setting).

You are free to make a house rule that they can hold their breath. The rules say otherwise but your free to do as you wish. The AUGG rules apply equally to Megaheros, Gods, Robots, Dragons, and everything else in that world...including things with supernatural PS and invulnerable things..

The rules from an SDC setting where all the creatures are still made up of relatively vulnerable SDC tissues, so the rules don't actually say what you think they say. They don't say creatures like dragons can't hold their breath in space in a mega-damage setting because they're rules for SDC creatures in a non-MDC setting.

Except that MiO ALSO doesn't let you hold your breath, again no listed exceptions, and that IS (half of it at least) a mega damage setting.
As I said though your free to make up a house rule if you want, but the RAW is no holding your breath in space.

MiO is hardly a definitive answer, failing to list exceptions is hardly a surprise given the MDC portion was added on as a Rifts adjustments that didn't show any adjustments that would otherwise be necessary to cover all the MDC variations, all you get are rules written from an SDC standpoint.

And as you don't address the rest of what I said, you're really just house-ruling when you try and claim that the SDC rules scale up damage to MDC creatures, because it doesn't. You have to houserule that the damaging effects of exposure to space are things that MDC creatures are super-vulnerable to making them a hundred times weaker against them which is completely contrary to all the material on MDC creatures.

[Nightmask]

Rifter 10 has the best answer for MDC creatures in space and Fleets of the 3 galaxies merely continues what went on in there.
There are some scant changes made because of redefined space physics.

If it's got SDC creatures taking SDC damage and MDC creatures taking massive MDC damage then those are really bad answers, because unless you've got some rule somewhere that says MDC creatures are super-vulnerable to radiation, cold, and vacuum (which patently doesn't exist) then they clearly aren't and are clearly NOT subject to any sort of serious injury from being in space. Certainly space isn't going to have some kind of special rules that make MDC creatures mega-vulnerable to the hazards of space.

[Nightmask]

Just as in Rift Canada has Snow causing SDc to SDC targets and MDC to mdc ones, so goes with radiation.

Logical fallacy there, just because A does not mean B, and if Rifts: Canada is ridiculous enough to have snow causing mega-damage to MDC creatures as if somehow the snow was colder or that MDC creatures had a massive vulnerability to cold well again not going to get me to agree to such nonsense. Bad, nonsensical rules abound in Rifts and certainly the 'it'd be so awful if MDC creatures didn't take mega-damage from things like cold because nobody would want to play SDC creatures' reasoning is a very bad, nonsensical rationale used for things like that kind of ruling.

[eliakon]

Rifter 10 has the best answer for MDC creatures in space and Fleets of the 3 galaxies merely continues what went on in there.
There are some scant changes made because of redefined space physics.

If it's got SDC creatures taking SDC damage and MDC creatures taking massive MDC damage then those are really bad answers, because unless you've got some rule somewhere that says MDC creatures are super-vulnerable to radiation, cold, and vacuum (which patently doesn't exist) then they clearly aren't and are clearly NOT subject to any sort of serious injury from being in space. Certainly space isn't going to have some kind of special rules that make MDC creatures mega-vulnerable to the hazards of space.

The rifter 10 rules are
SDC dies in 1d4x10 seconds. period, dot. your dead
MDC critters take 1d6x10/rd
or put another way....SDC critters take 1d6x1000SDC/round....
The rifter 10 rules, if used, have EVERYTHING take massive damage.

The AUGG Rules have everything take proportional damage (you take a percent, usually 10%, of total health, so a person with 10 HP loses 1 HP, a person with 100 HP loses 10 HP, and a person with a 1,000,000HP loses 100,000 HP)

So neither one makes MDC things super-vulnerable they just don't get some sort of pass either. They just take 'regular' damage what ever that is (either the AUGG %s or Rifter 10 Dice) No more or less than every other creature does.

[Nightmask]

Rifter 10 has the best answer for MDC creatures in space and Fleets of the 3 galaxies merely continues what went on in there.
There are some scant changes made because of redefined space physics.

If it's got SDC creatures taking SDC damage and MDC creatures taking massive MDC damage then those are really bad answers, because unless you've got some rule somewhere that says MDC creatures are super-vulnerable to radiation, cold, and vacuum (which patently doesn't exist) then they clearly aren't and are clearly NOT subject to any sort of serious injury from being in space. Certainly space isn't going to have some kind of special rules that make MDC creatures mega-vulnerable to the hazards of space.

The rifter 10 rules are
SDC dies in 1d4x10 seconds. period, dot. your dead
MDC critters take 1d6x10/rd
or put another way....SDC critters take 1d6x1000SDC/round....
The rifter 10 rules, if used, have EVERYTHING take massive damage.

The AUGG Rules have everything take proportional damage (you take a percent, usually 10%, of total health, so a person with 10 HP loses 1 HP, a person with 100 HP loses 10 HP, and a person with a 1,000,000HP loses 100,000 HP)

So neither one makes MDC things super-vulnerable they just don't get some sort of pass either. They just take 'regular' damage what ever that is (either the AUGG %s or Rifter 10 Dice) No more or less than every other creature does.

Except MDC creatures aren't every other creature, what causes regular damage to an SDC creature doesn't do damage generally to an MDC creature because they aren't regular creatures especially creatures like dragons that have massive regenerative abilities to offset any of what should be the minor damage from exposure to space. Proportional damage has at its root the baseless idea that somehow the much more powerful and durable creature is somehow contrarily far more vulnerable at the same time, that the same radiation is doing far more damage to them than to the SDC creature, that the vacuum is causing far more internal pressure and cell damage than it does to SDC creatures, and so on. That's simply not believable.

[eliakon]

Rifter 10 has the best answer for MDC creatures in space and Fleets of the 3 galaxies merely continues what went on in there.
There are some scant changes made because of redefined space physics.

If it's got SDC creatures taking SDC damage and MDC creatures taking massive MDC damage then those are really bad answers, because unless you've got some rule somewhere that says MDC creatures are super-vulnerable to radiation, cold, and vacuum (which patently doesn't exist) then they clearly aren't and are clearly NOT subject to any sort of serious injury from being in space. Certainly space isn't going to have some kind of special rules that make MDC creatures mega-vulnerable to the hazards of space.

The rifter 10 rules are
SDC dies in 1d4x10 seconds. period, dot. your dead
MDC critters take 1d6x10/rd
or put another way....SDC critters take 1d6x1000SDC/round....
The rifter 10 rules, if used, have EVERYTHING take massive damage.

The AUGG Rules have everything take proportional damage (you take a percent, usually 10%, of total health, so a person with 10 HP loses 1 HP, a person with 100 HP loses 10 HP, and a person with a 1,000,000HP loses 100,000 HP)

So neither one makes MDC things super-vulnerable they just don't get some sort of pass either. They just take 'regular' damage what ever that is (either the AUGG %s or Rifter 10 Dice) No more or less than every other creature does.

Except MDC creatures aren't every other creature, what causes regular damage to an SDC creature doesn't do damage generally to an MDC creature because they aren't regular creatures especially creatures like dragons that have massive regenerative abilities to offset any of what should be the minor damage from exposure to space. Proportional damage has at its root the baseless idea that somehow the much more powerful and durable creature is somehow contrarily far more vulnerable at the same time, that the same radiation is doing far more damage to them than to the SDC creature, that the vacuum is causing far more internal pressure and cell damage than it does to SDC creatures, and so on. That's simply not believable.

Then make a house rule in your games. *shrug* if you don't like the rules, change them
The original poster ask what the rules were, and these are they.
Personally I find MDC to be silly, but since that's what the rules are, I use them. *shrugs*

[kaid]

In the minion wars dimensional outbreak book talks about demons and devils being able to act normally in space taking no damage from it and even being able to fly in it. Dragons even dragon hatchlings are physically tougher than all but a few demons/devils so if it is not hurting a demon or a devil I don't see any reason that a dragon would be more vulnerable to the rigors of space than weaker creatures are.

Then the question becomes how long can a dragon hold its breath. Given their supernatural PE levels one must assume they can probably hold their breath for a pretty long time.

As far as the magic powers causing 5d6 per melee from cosmic radiation that is basically hitting somebody with a solar flares worth of radiation not standard ambient levels of radiation. Given the writeup in the dimensional outbreak book while space is a harsh environment it does not seem to be that dangerous for demons or devils and given dragons could have hundreds more MDC than most demons/devils and typically a much higher bio regeneration rate a hatchling should have plenty of time to keep trying teleport till it works.

[eliakon]

In the minion wars dimensional outbreak book talks about demons and devils being able to act normally in space taking no damage from it and even being able to fly in it. Dragons even dragon hatchlings are physically tougher than all but a few demons/devils so if it is not hurting a demon or a devil I don't see any reason that a dragon would be more vulnerable to the rigors of space than weaker creatures are.

Then the question becomes how long can a dragon hold its breath. Given their supernatural PE levels one must assume they can probably hold their breath for a pretty long time.

As far as the magic powers causing 5d6 per melee from cosmic radiation that is basically hitting somebody with a solar flares worth of radiation not standard ambient levels of radiation. Given the writeup in the dimensional outbreak book while space is a harsh environment it does not seem to be that dangerous for demons or devils and given dragons could have hundreds more MDC than most demons/devils and typically a much higher bio regeneration rate a hatchling should have plenty of time to keep trying teleport till it works.

The Citation though explicitly states Demons and Devils though. Not supernatural beings in general. A GM can make a house rule that it includes all supernatural beings if they wish, but the RAW is that only Demons and Devils get this immunity. This suggests that the protection has to do more with being an infernal being than raw toughness.

But yes a hatchling would have many options to teleport. Either set of space rules (AUGG or Rifter 10) would allow from several turns to several minutes of time to teleport. You just cant hold your breath during this time. So yah you take damage....but you still have time to escape.

[Nightmask]

In the minion wars dimensional outbreak book talks about demons and devils being able to act normally in space taking no damage from it and even being able to fly in it. Dragons even dragon hatchlings are physically tougher than all but a few demons/devils so if it is not hurting a demon or a devil I don't see any reason that a dragon would be more vulnerable to the rigors of space than weaker creatures are.

Then the question becomes how long can a dragon hold its breath. Given their supernatural PE levels one must assume they can probably hold their breath for a pretty long time.

As far as the magic powers causing 5d6 per melee from cosmic radiation that is basically hitting somebody with a solar flares worth of radiation not standard ambient levels of radiation. Given the writeup in the dimensional outbreak book while space is a harsh environment it does not seem to be that dangerous for demons or devils and given dragons could have hundreds more MDC than most demons/devils and typically a much higher bio regeneration rate a hatchling should have plenty of time to keep trying teleport till it works.

The Citation though explicitly states Demons and Devils though. Not supernatural beings in general. A GM can make a house rule that it includes all supernatural beings if they wish, but the RAW is that only Demons and Devils get this immunity. This suggests that the protection has to do more with being an infernal being than raw toughness.

But yes a hatchling would have many options to teleport. Either set of space rules (AUGG or Rifter 10) would allow from several turns to several minutes of time to teleport. You just cant hold your breath during this time. So yah you take damage....but you still have time to escape.

Neither set of rules really have value in the situation though, the one because it's written for an SDC setting and SDC only creatures and the other because it's both not canon and really doesn't take into account that there are many races running around that are MDC and have natural abilities that would reduce or eliminate any damage from being in space. Even a hatchling dragons tissues are vastly more durable and tolerant of physical trauma than those rules cover and have powerful regenerative abilities to deal with any incidental damage that might possibly occur. Gases aren't going to bubble up and explode the tissues in something like a dragon and the rest of space exposure is fairly trivial compared to what their bodies can take without being injured.

[eliakon]

In the minion wars dimensional outbreak book talks about demons and devils being able to act normally in space taking no damage from it and even being able to fly in it. Dragons even dragon hatchlings are physically tougher than all but a few demons/devils so if it is not hurting a demon or a devil I don't see any reason that a dragon would be more vulnerable to the rigors of space than weaker creatures are.

Then the question becomes how long can a dragon hold its breath. Given their supernatural PE levels one must assume they can probably hold their breath for a pretty long time.

As far as the magic powers causing 5d6 per melee from cosmic radiation that is basically hitting somebody with a solar flares worth of radiation not standard ambient levels of radiation. Given the writeup in the dimensional outbreak book while space is a harsh environment it does not seem to be that dangerous for demons or devils and given dragons could have hundreds more MDC than most demons/devils and typically a much higher bio regeneration rate a hatchling should have plenty of time to keep trying teleport till it works.

The Citation though explicitly states Demons and Devils though. Not supernatural beings in general. A GM can make a house rule that it includes all supernatural beings if they wish, but the RAW is that only Demons and Devils get this immunity. This suggests that the protection has to do more with being an infernal being than raw toughness.

But yes a hatchling would have many options to teleport. Either set of space rules (AUGG or Rifter 10) would allow from several turns to several minutes of time to teleport. You just cant hold your breath during this time. So yah you take damage....but you still have time to escape.

Neither set of rules really have value in the situation though, the one because it's written for an SDC setting and SDC only creatures and the other because it's both not canon and really doesn't take into account that there are many races running around that are MDC and have natural abilities that would reduce or eliminate any damage from being in space. Even a hatchling dragons tissues are vastly more durable and tolerant of physical trauma than those rules cover and have powerful regenerative abilities to deal with any incidental damage that might possibly occur. Gases aren't going to bubble up and explode the tissues in something like a dragon and the rest of space exposure is fairly trivial compared to what their bodies can take without being injured.

so, as I have said repeatedly, make up something.... If you don't like the rules that are available, change them. *shrugs* BUT don't expect everyone else to agree that your personal house rules and interpretations are correct. With out any other written sources we cant make much more than the following
-in SDC universes people take a certain amount of damage if they do not have natural armor 14+ and a different amount if they do
- in the noncanon rifter SDC dies and MDC takes a set damage
-Demons and Devils get a pass on space damage
-oxygen conservation skill can double the time a person can survive.

Anything else/more will have to be a house rule, for now.

[say652]

Megahero power of Breathe Without Air says survive in space. Now does this mean an Experiment with breathe Without Air can do the same? Or Aliens from toxic homeworlds that do not breathe. Or for that matter a SeaTitan, will he suffocate? To prove a pount an AntiMonster which says can survive in space also, would he die?

[kaid]

In the minion wars dimensional outbreak book talks about demons and devils being able to act normally in space taking no damage from it and even being able to fly in it. Dragons even dragon hatchlings are physically tougher than all but a few demons/devils so if it is not hurting a demon or a devil I don't see any reason that a dragon would be more vulnerable to the rigors of space than weaker creatures are.

Then the question becomes how long can a dragon hold its breath. Given their supernatural PE levels one must assume they can probably hold their breath for a pretty long time.

As far as the magic powers causing 5d6 per melee from cosmic radiation that is basically hitting somebody with a solar flares worth of radiation not standard ambient levels of radiation. Given the writeup in the dimensional outbreak book while space is a harsh environment it does not seem to be that dangerous for demons or devils and given dragons could have hundreds more MDC than most demons/devils and typically a much higher bio regeneration rate a hatchling should have plenty of time to keep trying teleport till it works.

The Citation though explicitly states Demons and Devils though. Not supernatural beings in general. A GM can make a house rule that it includes all supernatural beings if they wish, but the RAW is that only Demons and Devils get this immunity. This suggests that the protection has to do more with being an infernal being than raw toughness.

But yes a hatchling would have many options to teleport. Either set of space rules (AUGG or Rifter 10) would allow from several turns to several minutes of time to teleport. You just cant hold your breath during this time. So yah you take damage....but you still have time to escape.

It also talks about gargoyles of various flavors being fine in space and they are not even true demons they are just sub demons. So while it would be a GM call if a gargoyle can handle space without any damage a dragon being both physically tougher and with better regeneration capability should be at minimum the same and likely better capable of handling it.

One downside is palladium likes labels like demon, sub demon, supernatural creature, creature of magic that are all murky at very best. A sub demon like a gargoyle would in theory cover brodkil as well and they are so minimally magical they can sport cybernetics something no dragon could due to how fast dragons regeneration capabilities are.

[say652]

H.U.2 page 181. Thats what it says no confusing text so yes certain Megahero characters CAN survivr in space. For the experiment (since xp per level costs are like half) I require some sort of energy resistance to survive in space. Aliens that DO NOT BREATHE to me and my play group can survive space as can the AntiMonster.
Now getting upto escape velocity to leave a planet, that is a much shorter list.