Rifter Submitters: Stand up and be counted!

[The Dark Elf]

Although the writing is amateur the contract is professional and as such should be sent prior to work commencing. Ive seen artwork and adverts before Ive been alerted to a successful submission by the horses mouth.

As a professional contract, prompt pay should be the forefront of the contract.

I like the four complimentary copies. Complimentary artwork would be bloody sweet too!

Any rejections require PB to read all submissions in a prompt time when they arrive. That is probably not possible on their skeleton staff. But from this end ofc it would be nice. My stuff would already be on a website if I knew PBs didnt want it.

I would like to see less official stuff in Rifters. I might be alone but I want official in the shape of books, not articles. I worry that the publishing mind set may begin to see lines as current/continued because of an article or two that are official (trying to be polite).

[Reagren Wright]

Rifter Submitters: Stand up and be counted!

I’ve read and heard signs, here and there, that the submission process is going to be improved, but this has only been touched on lightly in web interviews and podcasts. I’m standing up to say (well actually, I’m sitting here in my pajamas, but no less determined to bring this subject to mention) that I, being of semi-sound body and mind, am an advocate for improvement. So what is it, concerning the Rifter-writing-submission process that needs to be improved?

I’m going to get the ball rolling-and I do so in the best of spirits, but this is not a thread that I wish to see dedicated to just complaints about the process-or about Palladium Books. Please remain constructive and add to the conversation, whether it is with suggestions and discussion, or at the very least comments that are helpful to the thread at hand. Also you might consider ideas which are not only helpful to you (as a submitter) but to Palladium Books as well.

As I said I will start.

One:
I would like to see the submission process refined to include electronic submissions. I do this with Kenzerco, for submissions to KoDT magazine and when I send (by email) my submission I get a, “Your submission has been sent,” automatic response email. I don’t understand the logistics (or potential problems) with this approach, but nonetheless I would like to see it. The reduced cost on my end for sending my submission, via snail mail would be nice as well.

I submit mine via email directly to Wayne. I also send a hardcopy binded
together and a CD.

Two:
I would also like to see rejections. Personally, I have been rejected many times (in life, as well as writing). Specifically, I’m thinking about short story fiction that I have submitted to various magazines and e-zines, which I have (so far) always been rejected. Does the rejection suck-yes, in a certain sense it does, but what is even less fun, is being in a constant state of wondering about a submission. My experience of the rejection letter, (and this is a model I would suggest Palladium Books adopt) is that it is generic and impersonal. No one really has the time to tell you why your writing, story or idea is rejected-it just is, but it’s better than not knowing at all.

Not sure those who submit to the Rifter are the types who want to see
rejection letters. I mean the Rifter is not Asimov's Science Fiction magazine. Furthermore once
sent to Palladium, they own it. You might not get published now, but I've sent stuff that they've
held for a year or more.

Three:
I don’t need four copies of the Rifter in which my work appears in. Don’t get me wrong, I greatly appreciate it, and actually this is a new thought (mostly off the top of my head). I believe two (maybe even just one) are more than enough .

I give the extra copies to friend and family. I don't want to purchase extra copies to give out to people, plus I get my fifth copy because I'm a Rifter subscriber.

Four:
The submitter section of the Palladium website needs to be updated, as well as their could be a few expansions and explanations of what Palladium would like to see… Perhaps content and format related.

I will agree with you on that point. As for what Palladium like to see, hard to
say. Scott Benter a Heroes Unlimited short story got accepted in the Horror Theme issue of the
Rifter

Those are four off the top of my head.

What do you think?

Definitely some thing could be updated, but I like the informal nature of the Rifter. I mean people
are sending stuff about a character they created, not a stories written for The Magazine of
Fantasy & Science Fiction. And guess what if its entirely written all that well, they still might
publish it as is. 45 monster submitted in manuscript, all but ten found their way in Rifter #57 and
#58. The reason because as I look them over with new eyes, they are really lame (well one
wasn't, but I understand why). Who wants to be told their Wizard character that you submitted
is not all that good. That news some people just don't take well. All your life friends and family
tell you, "You got talent", "Your stuff is so cool", "You're genius." Then an expect, someone who
knows the business comes along and give you a kick in the butt reality check. Look at what
they do to American Idol. We laugh at the people who think they can sing and joke about it at
work. But that person might be told since he was 10 years old by his mom that he so talented
that he will be famous one day. Now he's been told his mom's been lying to him? Not really cool.
So let's keep it informal. Kevin I can tell you from experience, its not the kind of guy who like
breaking the hearts of guys just trying to get into writing/author. He also doesn't have the time
to nurture someone along. Its a whole lot of trial and error on the author/writer part.

[Shawn Merrow]

1. Have work in Rifter #1, 2, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 22, 24, and 25. All were sent in only by email with just the submission form sent through the mail.

2. I can see how that would be nice but they had the HL&S in #9 for over a year before they used it.

3. I give out the extra copies to family and friends.

4. More info on what they are looking for would be handy. In the past they have said they get mostly Rifts submissions, so they are always looking for articles for the other settings.

[The Dark Elf]

Any rejections require PB to read all submissions in a prompt time when they arrive.

Well, I think that depends on what "prompt" means. For short stories I've had rejection notices take up to 3 months (and that seems reasonable). I have submissions, that were submitted two and half years ago to Palladium Books... I've assumed the works have been rejected but nonetheless, they make the time to look at them and decide. That being said, I don't know how many Rifter submissions they get. Say for instance they average one or two a day (30-60 submissions) for a month. How much time would it take to send a preformatted email to the submitter, "that... such and such submission has been rejected." Just simple notice. If such a thing, would take five minutes (and this is a generous amount of time for a preformatted rejection) per instance then it would be around (150-300 minutes) 3 to 6 hours a month. Change the process so that submitters that want to know are notified by email-or no email no notice...

As I said, I don't know how many submissions they get per month on average-but I'd have a hard time believing it was more than 60...

Thoughts?
What do you think?

I think that the time to read and study them all is what takes up the time. I remember seeing the currently pile Wayne had that he had not yet read and the stack on his filing cabinet behind him was over a foot high. I don't give up hope that my submissions have been rejected after a year. I doubt they've actually been read in that time. Although I'm sure previous submitters or a good cover letter will catch Wayne's attention.

I don't think they have much time at all if I'm honest and every little helps. I have no real knowledge purely speculative assumptions.

[The Dark Elf]

I would like to see less official stuff in Rifters. I might be alone but I want official in the shape of books, not articles. I worry that the publishing mind set may begin to see lines as current/continued because of an article or two that are official (trying to be polite).

I was wondering here, was there something specific you were referring too? Or just the case of PFRPG not being supported with a book in 2013?

No specifics, but specifically all the unsupported/dead lines.

[Dead Boy]

One:
I would like to see the submission process refined to include electronic submissions.

Actually I've been submitting via email for a good while now. Sure, they don't have a dedicated webpage with a submission form and file uploader, but there is a lot to be said for simple reliable email delivery.

That said, I agree that it would be nice if they could acknowledge the receipt of submitted material. Now I know Wayne tucks submission away into dedicated folders by author/submitter, dropped in the folder sight unseen for later review (I know because we had a brief talk with him regarding a font I once included because at the time I thought would make a nice title headder, and he had no idea it was even in there till he looked while he had me on the phone). A simple form-letter response to let us know when that email to file transfer occurs would be nice.

Two:
I would also like to see rejections.

While that would be nice, I understand why they don't do that. A lot of the time they seem to keep some submissions on the back burner for those issues where available material is a little lean. So its not in their best interest to reject things too quickly...just in case.

Three:
I don’t need four copies of the Rifter in which my work appears in.

I do!!

I have friends and family who demand their personal copies, and I sure as **** ain't buying extra copies!

[u][b]Four:separate
The submitter section of the Palladium website needs to be updated, as well as their could be a few expansions and explanations of what Palladium would like to see… Perhaps content and format related.

Here I kind of agree. It would be nice if they were a little more proactive in letting us know what they need, though they have posted notices in other places ( for instance, I know they are looking for Heroes Unlimited material). That said, I have a bad habit of coming up with an idea independent of any such postings and do what do.

If I were to add an additional gripe/suggestion that I would like to see addressed, it would be available lines of comunications for established & published Rifter contribuitots. It would be nice to have a separate email address we could use for questions, comments, and polished submissions. You know, instead of the standard submission email where it's sure to be lost in a sea of everything else from everyone else. Case in point: I recently sent an email to Wayne asking a few feeler questions regarding the special editorial attention my latest article received from Kev. I still have no idea if that email has even been read or received.

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. Someone used a "Summon Prysus" spell (sent me a PM), so here I am. I'll respond to what I can, the best I can. That's right, that means because it's me posting it's going to be a long one, so sit down and get comfortable, because you're going to be here for a while. But first, I'll honor another request.

Kevin talked about the Rifter in Gateway to the Megaverse Season 2, Episode 1 (May 22, 2012). A list of some of those questions can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=130707&p=2528204&hilit=Rifter#p2528204

And the best I can do to narrow down the time stamp for you is this episode breakdown:

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=130806

That's just over a 35 minute window. If you want it to be narrowed down more, you'll have to start listening. Hope that helps. Okay, now onto the topic at hand ...

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1: I submit most of my work electronically, and only the UMF (usually a hard copy of the article as well, but I do that more as a refresher and ease to read than it actually being necessary). Still, submitting the UMF electronically would be nice. This is actually addressed in the podcast episode I mentioned above. At least at some point, someone had told him they weren't the same legally, so he required the hard copy submission more as a C.Y.A. (this is my take on what he said, listen to the podcast to hear his words). While it would be nice if that was one of the updates for the website he's been recently talking about, but I doubt it. More than likely, we're stuck with the physical mailing for better or worse.

2: As for rejections, that's another tricky one. As someone above said, they often hold onto work for a while, and some things are printed a year or two later (e.g. my submission for Rifter #55 was actually submitted only months after my submission for Rifter #45 saw print, and I didn't even fathom the material for Rifter #52 yet). Also, as someone else said, some people don't like rejections. Me? I like them! How can I ever improve if I don't know what I've done wrong? Still, that's not everyone. Example: An editor once ripped something I wrote apart. It hurt, but the truth is that the editor was right (on most of it). I took it as a learning experience and became determined to do better! I told a friend (also a writer) about what had transpired, and they said they'd have probably cried for a week from just hearing half of it, and they'd probably have held a grudge too.

I know this is something Kevin worries about. He doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings (also not a good idea to alienate some fans). I say it because he's said it before (either on a podcast, in some Weekly Update, at an Open House, one of the times I talked to him, etc.). From what I've heard once (and I have no statistics on the accuracy of this), there's an age group that handles rejection well ("Yeah? Cool! I'm going to get better!" and based more on "born between XXXX and XXXX than a specific age) and then those who will get angry. Almost everyone says their the former, but apparently once it happens there's a lot that are actually the latter. The person who told me this said I was on the border of that age group/generation, but they never stated the actual years or anything. Again, I have no facts on this and I've never researched it or anything, just an anecdote I once heard and worth considering.

With all that out of the way, let's look at what they CAN do, shall we? This thread has given me some thoughts on the matter. Using a version of 1 could actually make 2 a LOT easier. Allow me to explain my thoughts (again, just thoughts, and not a technical guy to say how practical this is) ...

I'm thinking something similar to the PM system on these boards (or the old "receipt" I could get when I used AOL in like '98). You submit. Either this creates a ticket you check, or you enter an e-mail address that automatically gets notified, or something akin to this. When the file is opened, you get a notification. It'll effectively be marked as read, so this way you know it's been received and someone has looked at it (you don't know how thoroughly, but you at least have SOME information). This part I don't think should be too hard, but now I'm going to take it one step further (and I'm not sure if it's as possible or not).

Even better is if when Wayne (or whoever) read the file, once it's closed a window pops up (kind of like that window that asks if you want to save changes). The window is more of a review though. No words necessary! Three options would be present "Accepted" "Under Consideration" "Not at this time" (with the last being a polite version of rejection) and "Not yet read" (means he probably opened the file to check something, but he hasn't read it to make any type of decision yet). "Accepted" would be awesome (of course!), "Under Consideration is basically the limbo system we have now, and the real change would come from "Not at this time" which at least lets the contributor know they can do whatever they want with it. Every time file is opened this pops up. So if Wayne does decide to accept it, he can easily change the status without having to hunt down info. This system could then auto-notify the e-mail address on file of an update. This kind of system could give submitters more info while not wasting much of Wayne's time (a few seconds to click a button, nothing more).

Could even add in something like a star system (like 1-5 stars, with 5 being "Accepted and we're printing it next issue!," 4 being "Probably going to use it, but we'll let you know when and no promises," 3 being "Not bad, might use it if it fits a certain theme," 2 being "Probably not going to use it unless we're really lean on submissions and it just happens to fit a theme," and 1 being "Needs lots of work, try practicing some and submit again in the future"). However, the star system probably borders too close to a full review, and I doubt something they'd use. Just another random idea. Hmm ... maybe only use the star system if it's "Under Consideration"? 5 would be something like "Really good, good chance sometime in the future" while 1 would be "Not bad, but could use some good cleaning up. Try going through a few more drafts and resubmitting, might really increase your chances." Again, just continuing the spitballing of ideas.

3: I could take or leave the four copies. I tend to buy extras regardless. I like having more copies of my work. I'm weird like that. o_O

4: Okay, just about everyone agrees this needs an update. I, on the other hand, have no clue of how/why. I don't do a lot of submit to a lot of places to compare, and I never understood the concept of "dated" websites and such (I always thought the old website looked fine ... *shrug*). So I'm not the best judge here. HOWEVER, I do believe in trying to fix things if enough people see a problem. This seems to be one of them. How could it be fixed/updated?

I ask, because I'm willing (if I can find the time) to try and make an updated version myself, then submit it to Palladium (is that ironic?). Kevin keeps talking about updates to the site, well now is the perfect time! However, it's one thing to complain about what's currently wrong, it's another to try and take action and help fix the problem. I'm a fan of the latter system, but in this case I don't entirely know what the problem is. So help me help you, and let's see if we can get this done!

5: (Dark Elf). I agree, handling contracts and payment in a timely manner would be ideal. Knowing PB's situation I don't tend to worry about it much if there's delay in one or the other (or both). However, I realize I'm often more forgiving than most. And while I may cut them slack, I do agree it's something that should be improved.

6: (Dead Boy). I think I'm actually of the opposite mindset on this one. I wouldn't want any special treatment for established Rifter contributors. I say that while considering myself one. I wouldn't want special treatment, because I don't think it's fair. One of the beauties (for me) of the Rifter is that some new talented writer (or even artist) could be published/discovered. That's how most established Rifter contributors became estabilshed in the first place. However, if established contributors get special treatment, it begins to push the newer talent more and more to the side (because Wayne, and other PB crew, would need to spend more and more time with those already established). Mind you, I'm a proponent of fairness.

Though, I'll also say that I agree with Dark Elf about less "Official" stuff, but for entirely different reasons. The same as above with me stating how the Rifter has always been (at least from my perspective) about new talent. A lot of the "Official" material is from freelancers or staff (with some being from entirely new authors, which is pretty cool when it happens, it doesn't happen nearly as often). Again, this is all my personal opinion, and others are welcomed to theirs. I didn't post to argue, so much as I wanted to offer a different opinion on the matter (so others who may not have thought of it may consider both view points).

-----

That's just my take one things. Hope some of that was at least interesting for everyone to read. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys to all.

[Dead Boy]

6: (Dead Boy). I think I'm actually of the opposite mindset on this one. I wouldn't want any special treatment for established Rifter contributors. I say that while considering myself one. I wouldn't want special treatment, because I don't think it's fair.

Interesting... So you aren't in favor of timely replies to your questions and Rifter-related correspondence. Okay.

[Prysus]

6: (Dead Boy). I think I'm actually of the opposite mindset on this one. I wouldn't want any special treatment for established Rifter contributors. I say that while considering myself one. I wouldn't want special treatment, because I don't think it's fair.

Interesting... So you aren't in favor of timely replies to your questions and Rifter-related correspondence. Okay.

Greetings and Salutations. Incorrect. Had your request been timely replies for all, I'd agree. Your request was about favoritism/special treatment, which I disagree with. That'll apply regardless of the request. If someone suggested double pay for established contributors only, I'd object (though I'd take the pay if Palladium offered it ). Farewell and safe journeys.

[Dead Boy]

6: (Dead Boy). I think I'm actually of the opposite mindset on this one. I wouldn't want any special treatment for established Rifter contributors. I say that while considering myself one. I wouldn't want special treatment, because I don't think it's fair.

Interesting... So you aren't in favor of timely replies to your questions and Rifter-related correspondence. Okay.

Greetings and Salutations. Incorrect. Had your request been timely replies for all, I'd agree. Your request was about favoritism/special treatment, which I disagree with. That'll apply regardless of the request. If someone suggested double pay for established contributors only, I'd object (though I'd take the pay if Palladium offered it ). Farewell and safe journeys.

You skimmed it, didn't you. Yeah. The key and majority of the suggestuon was regarding better lines of communication. And by the way, still no word back from Wayne, punctuating my point.

[Prysus]

You skimmed it, didn't you. Yeah. The key and majority of the suggestuon was regarding better lines of communication. And by the way, still no word back from Wayne, punctuating my point.

Greetings and Salutations. No I didn't skim it, I actually read what you wrote. Your suggestion was for "available lines of comunications for established & published Rifter contribuitots. It would be nice to have a separate email address we could use for questions, comments, and polished submissions. You know, instead of the standard submission email where it's sure to be lost in a sea of everything else from everyone else."

Whether intended or not, the end result is wanting special attention as a result of being already published and "established." You want to be "separate" from "everyone else." If you didn't mean it being "separate" and only for "established" contributors, then you wrote it poorly. I'm more of the mindset that if you are "established" then you should require less attention. You should already have a good idea of what you're doing instead of needing the added attention. Because in order to give the "established" contributors that extra attention, it means that those who are still struggling to make it will receive less attention. To me that's absolutely backwards of how it should be.

Now I'm sorry you haven't gotten your response yet, it would be nice if they could respond to everyone. I know someone else who had a similar problem of not getting a response. It sucks. The first time I was published I actually found out through a Weekly Update and didn't receive a contract or official word until after (though I will admit I received a prompt reply to my e-mail ... *shrug* ... luck I guess?). Palladium's communication could definitely use some improvement (I can understand with them being short handed, but just because I understand doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist), I just won't agree that separation is the way to go. If that's not what you meant, that's fine, but that is what you wrote.

Err ... sorry J.L. Duncan, might be kind of hi-jacking your thread here. Farewell and safe journeys to all.

[Dead Boy]

You skimmed it, didn't you. Yeah. The key and majority of the suggestuon was regarding better lines of communication. And by the way, still no word back from Wayne, punctuating my point.

Greetings and Salutations. No I didn't skim it, I actually read what you wrote. Your suggestion was for "available lines of comunications for established & published Rifter contribuitots. It would be nice to have a separate email address we could use for questions, comments, and polished submissions. You know, instead of the standard submission email where it's sure to be lost in a sea of everything else from everyone else."

I see what you did there. Cute.... Quoting my own words back but conveniently not including the example that expessly focused on the communications aspect.

Doesn't matter I guess. Neither you, nor I, nor all the king's horses can get Palladium to change their ways, especially regarding their lackluster record of answering questions and getting in touch with their contributors in a timely fashion.

Time for me to let this one drop. I've wasted too much time griping anyhow instead of being productive. Thanks for the love, Duncan... and you too Prysus because I know you ment well.

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. Actually, I felt your example only further highlighted my point. However, I was thinking about this today and I will say this: Agree or disagree with the idea personally, I give you credit. Not just for all the work you've contributed and gotten published, but because you offered a possible solution to the problem you saw. I definitely respect that you offered a way to fix the problem, and not just gripe. That's not easy to do, so kudos to you. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Dead Boy]

Payment is made roughly 30 days after publication. Payment is explained in the NDA as being received after 120 days from publication.

But seriously, I was glad for what I did get just in time for Christmas shopping. So though not timely on that timetable, it was timely in that respect.