Why no slings?

[flatline]

I can find no mentions of slings in the Dead Reign book. This is surprising to me since slings are extremely easy to make from improvised materials and a fist sized rock from a sling will crush a skull with similar force to a war hammer or mace. And from a safer distance.

It just seems strange to ignore a silent, lethal ranged weapon with free ammunition...

--flatline

[Icefalcon]

I do not recall seeing the sling mentioned in any Palladium book, ever.

[flatline]

I do not recall seeing the sling mentioned in any Palladium book, ever.

Slings have been around since the beginning. The sling was actually one of the better weapons in Palladium Fantasy Revised. It had its own WP, better rate of fire than bows, and allowed PS bonuses. A troll with a sling was a dangerous encounter.

As time went on, the sling got less and less love from Palladium. Just thumbing through the books I can reach without waking the baby:

Fantasy Revised: has it's own WP and is in the weapon table on page 46.
HU: Revised: merged into WP Targeting, but still appears in weapon table on page 194
HU:2: uses WP Targeting, still appears in table on page 351
RMB: mentioned under WP Archery and Targeting only.
RUE: mentioned under WP Targeting only.

So it used to be prominent, now it's a footnote. Nonetheless, slings and maybe even staff-slings should make a comeback in the Dead Reign setting, especially if they address the damage issue that seems to afflict all non-firearm weapon types.

--flatline

[Icefalcon]

I don't have the Fantasy or HU books. Now that I look it up, it IS in the RMB and RUE but mostly as a note. You could use the sling the way it is listed in Fantasy without any conversion if that is what you want. It should be the proper damage codes seeing as how they are both SDC settings.

[azazel1024]

Well, in so far as any modern slingers I have observed.

First, a fist sized rock isn't going to have much range. It is pretty hard to get a lot of speed on something with that much mass. You also might crack a skull, but compared to a sling bullet against a zombie, likely not nearly as deadly. A real sling bullet is a honest to goodness lead bullet (okay, really a rounded marbel type dealie do). It is what slingers used to use back in antiquity. They tended not to just use rocks (unless the only thing available). Just like with a modern gun fired bullet, lead has a much higher density, so a small lead sling bullet is going to keep velocity better and also have a smaller impact area.

A really good slinger might just be able to put a lead sling bullet through a good plywood shield using a slingstaff. They could certainly put one through your skull.

Downside to a sling, even a very good slinger is not nearly as accurate as a very good archer. Oh, there are some true savants with a sling, but it is much more difficult to learn how to be a really accurate slinger than it is a really accurate archer. So against zombies...you are pretty SOL unless you are in very close. Someone with a few dozen hours of practice is going to be pretty unlikely to nail a zombie/person in the head with a sling bullet (let alone not identically sized/aerodynamic rockets, steel nuts, bolts etc), at a range of much more than maybe 10 yards. It also takes a little longer to sling a rock/bullet than it does to draw and fire an arrow (not much more, but a little more).

The odds also of a sling bullet creating the trauma necessary to kill a zombie with a hit to the head is a fair amount less than the odds that a bow with a resonable draw strength and an arrow with a head designed for penetration (bodkin for example) would penetrate at the same range.

Now for a nice weapon that has ammo just about anywhere, a sling is pretty good. However, it is not something I would want to rely on for hunting or dropping zombies. It is certainly better than nothing though.

[flatline]

Oh, I'm not claiming we should expect to make head shots at 100 yards with a sling, but we don't need to be crushing skulls to be effective. Shattering a leg or shoulder at 50 yards make that zombie less of a threat. If you're stuck on a building surrounded by a sea of zombies, it might be hard to hit a particular head, but if you're happy just hitting any old head, head shots become pretty common.

--flatline

[Lord_Dalgard]

They're also silent as opposed to firearms.

Also, slingshots?

[flatline]

They're also silent as opposed to firearms.

Also, slingshots?

It is my understanding that slingshots are only capable of a fraction of the power that a true sling is capable of. A sling acts as a lever and provides mechanical advantage. A slingshot just stores and releases the strength of your arms like a non-compound bow does.

Of course, I may be wrong. I have limited experience with all of these.

--flatline

[azazel1024]

A slingshot would only be deadly against very small animals, like a small bird or a squirrel (maybe a rabbit?). I've used them a fair amount. I wouldn't want to get nailed with one, but you'd have to have one hell of a slingshot and be pretty lucky to even crack someone's skull with one, let alone kill them.

You can get vastly more power in to a bow where you can use your entire arm for the draw than a slingshot. A really powerful sling shot might have an 18 inch draw length and 15lbs. A really powerful bow might have a 30 inch draw length and 75lbs.

Also sling as most deffinitely not silent if you miss your target. The crack of a sling bullet or rock hitting something like the side of a building, sidewalk, pavement, car, etc is pretty damned loud. Of course hitting dirt isn't very loud.

[Torval]

I find the topic of both slings and slingshots for use in Dead Reign to be very interesting but unfortunately, I don't have anything I could add to the conversation. I do encourage others to continue discussing it! Please!

[azazel1024]

That was likely from a few feet away, and an unlucky blow.

A mail box, at least most, aren't nearly as tough as a person's skull and 10-15yds is nothing when it comes down to it. I didn't say they CAN'T be deadly, just that they aren't nearly as deadly as a real sling, sling staff or bow and arrow.

I can attest to how hard a slingshot can hit. When I was about 13 I stupidly thought "I wonder how much it would hurt to get hit with one", so I shot my self in the top of the foot with a quarter with about a half-3/4 draw on my slingshot. I near broke the top of my foot (I had a shoe and sock on at the time) and had a massive bruise for about 2 weeks (I could barely walk for 2-3 days afterward).

So no, I would never want to be shot with one, and they CAN kill, it just isn't all that likely and not nearly so likely as something like a sling, sling staff or bow and arrow which can deliver significantly more kinetic energy.

[flatline]

Slingshots do allow the use of darts which, while typically lighter than stones or bullets, can have tremendous penetration ability. However, the typical dart doesn't have a long enough point to penetrate the skull and have any length left over to do much damage to the brain. Usually darts are used to deliver toxins, but that's not very useful against zombies.

Slingshots are excellent for hunting small game since it takes very little practice to achieve sufficient accuracy to be useful.

--flatline

[Talon Starblade]

Actually, I was doing some massive research on Slings and Sling-shots a few times over the last couple of years...

While a normal Sling-shot bought over the counter may be a relative lightweight, I've seen demonstrations of home made high-tension band designs using anywhere form a 26 to 36 inch draw length, pulling anywhere from 60 to 90lb draw weights. With these, the systems were able to put a .50 to .75 caliber sling-shot round THROUGH thick wood targets at 25 to 30 feet. At less than 10 feet, they had NO difficulty at all, punching holes through, and at a decent reload rate.

[flatline]

Actually, I was doing some massive research on Slings and Sling-shots a few times over the last couple of years...

While a normal Sling-shot bought over the counter may be a relative lightweight, I've seen demonstrations of home made high-tension band designs using anywhere form a 26 to 36 inch draw length, pulling anywhere from 60 to 90lb draw weights. With these, the systems were able to put a .50 to .75 caliber sling-shot round THROUGH thick wood targets at 25 to 30 feet. At less than 10 feet, they had NO difficulty at all, punching holes through, and at a decent reload rate.

That certainly sounds suitable for splattering zombie brains.

Do they make slingshots from anything besides latex-based rubber? I don't know that I'd trust surgical tubing to last more than a couple of months of use.

--flatline

[G]

Why no spears? A boarspear might be nice...

[MurderCityDisciple]

Why no chest mounted lawnmowers?

[dargo83]

on a side note check this out http://www.youtube.com/user/joergsprave ... sults_main