Fantasy Ultimate Edition

[zyanitevp]

So, in the February 23rd Weekly Update Kevin said, "...and special projects like a Palladium Fantasy® RPG Ultimate Edition (something I’ve been secretly kicking around for several years – but no promises).
So, it seems there is a small chance of getting the Ultimate Edition treatment. What do you want to see, and what do you not want to see? Try to keep it reasonable...

[everloss]

So, in the February 23rd Weekly Update Kevin said, "...and special projects like a Palladium Fantasy® RPG Ultimate Edition (something I’ve been secretly kicking around for several years – but no promises).
So, it seems there is a small chance of getting the Ultimate Edition treatment. What do you want to see, and what do you not want to see? Try to keep it reasonable...

How about a return to First Edition rules, but with the point-based magic system of 2nd edition?

Although, I guess I already play my own version like that.

[drewkitty ~..~]

A PFUE is a Bad Idea.
It will get screwed up by trying to make it just like RUE.

[lordchaz2k]

I would love to see the old HtH combat specifics for each class again from 1st edition. I'd also like it if they updated the men at arms classes and give them combat specific abilities like what the monk o.c.c has.

[gaby]

I think it,s a Good idea,maybe make Palladium the same size as earth.

[JuliusCreed]

Put the Sexual Deviations Table back in the Insanity Charts!

No seriously, I actually think an Ultimate Edition could go either way. If one were to come out, I'm not sure what I'd like to see in it, though the suggestion lordchaz had about the specific combat tables for the different OCC's might be good. Or maybe turn some of the more specific bonuses in them into class abilities, like giving back the Thief and Assassin their Critical from Behind multipliers, or the Critical Bow Shot for the Longbowman. Oh, and the Gersidi Tombs! Put Deathkiss back in her rightful place in the main book where she belongs!

[gaaahhhh]

I would much rather have Land of the Damned 3, Old Kingdoms, Tombs of Gersidi, Land of the South Winds, Phi and Lopan, Yin Sloth Jungles 2nd edition, and the Mysteries of Magic books first. It could be cool, except KEEP CHARACTER CREATION IN THE FRONT OF THE BOOK!!!!

[pblackcrow]

So, in the February 23rd Weekly Update Kevin said, "...and special projects like a Palladium Fantasy® RPG Ultimate Edition (something I’ve been secretly kicking around for several years – but no promises).
So, it seems there is a small chance of getting the Ultimate Edition treatment. What do you want to see, and what do you not want to see? Try to keep it reasonable...

I want to see ALL of the creation tables in one place, like the one for city generation in W.E., assassins, thieves, wizard guilds, and just general things that you need to have to play a well rounded game. LISTING ALL SAVING THROWS AND RULES, PERCEPTION ROLLS, AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE IN ONE PLACE WITH A NOTE FOR WHICH ATTRIBUTE ADDS TO OR DECREASES WHICH SAVING THROW OR THE LIKE! Also put riding animals in there as well!!! All skills, spells, etc. And time charts would be nice as well!!!

In would be REALLY NICE if it included a character generator and a GM tools with a mapping feature to create their own towns, dungeons, etc; and a feature to add OCC's, RCC's, skills, spells, weapons, equipment, etc that they've created. Printout sheets for each creation tables listed in the book like they did for the Rifts Mercenary Company and Traveling Show. But able to be filled in using the GM tools. But with a blank space below each of the points to be able to explain why they picked that option, that the thief guild is under the windmill, that the candy shop's the drug dealers hideout, or the Inn is ran by a nice man and his 3 wives who's children own several small businesses in town that are linked to the Inn, etc. Just little notes of interest.

[lordchaz2k]

I would also like to finally see some of the great art from the book in color just like in RUE. Come to think of it, they should just do this with the main rulebook for each game. That would be amazing, and I would personally re buy all of my core books if they'd get this kind of printing out. I can see this actually generating new sales from people who already have most of the books as well as newbies to the game.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I would also like to finally see some of the great art from the book in color just like in RUE.

They can put great artwork in any of the books. Or you could buy the art book.
--------------------------

Agrees with gaaahhhh that I would very much would like to have new source/world books over anything else. PB can slip in the intelligent corrections in those books. Not wasting time of something that is going to turn out bad like a PFUE; and that will take time away from those new source/world books.

I do agree that PB should make a master list of ALL the saving throws (with the associated attribute bonuses listed) and that they should be in a PF book.

[pblackcrow]

I also hope like heck they change their ENTIRE monetary system!!! Redo the prices of stuff, and try to actually avoid putting EVERYTHING IN GOLD! I'm sorry, but THAT IS MY BIGGEST COMPLAINT WITH THE SYSTEM! Well, that, and the fact that they are so bloody slow in getting the books out.

[The Beast]

So, in the February 23rd Weekly Update Kevin said, "...and special projects like a Palladium Fantasy® RPG Ultimate Edition (something I’ve been secretly kicking around for several years – but no promises).
So, it seems there is a small chance of getting the Ultimate Edition treatment. What do you want to see, and what do you not want to see? Try to keep it reasonable...

Land of the Damned 3 and the rest of the Mysteries of Magic series.

Anything else.

[Justthis Guy]

I would like to see a book that listed all the races and all the OCC's. In it there should be a comprehensive list of all skills and the various Hand to Hand tables ( I too preferred the 1st ed H2H). Also include all the spells for the casters and break up by OCC; you could use "see Wiz spell on pg #" to avoid printing duplication if needed. Lastly include the full list of items a character might need or want.
As it is now, I use multiple books and print outs for the players to go shopping. It would be nice to have ALL of the Alchemist items in one place too. There are things from the western empire book and others that cant be found else where.
JTG

[Zamion138]

I would also like to finally see some of the great art from the book in color just like in RUE.

They can put great artwork in any of the books. Or you could buy the art book.
--------------------------

Agrees with gaaahhhh that I would very much would like to have new source/world books over anything else. PB can slip in the intelligent corrections in those books. Not wasting time of something that is going to turn out bad like a PFUE; and that will take time away from those new source/world books.

I do agree that PB should make a master list of ALL the saving throws (with the associated attribute bonuses listed) and that they should be in a PF book.

Yeah rope should not cost gold nor should a tinder box or a mug of ale. inless gold over flows everywhere.
Nothing wrong with copping DnD's money system as it makes complete sense ( actualy most fantasy systems use it or something simlilar) coper silver and lead coins. Rope should be at max 1/4 a gold peice and it better be the best damn rope heheheh

[The Dark Elf]

I wouldnt want PB's to take their time away from (possibly) releasing new sourcebooks to revise a perfectly fine PFRPG core book.

The money thing has never really gotten in the way of my current games as trivial stuff is just that and I dont really worry about the odd gold piece here or there, even if it is unbalanced compared to our thinking. Just my style.

[Justthis Guy]

The money thing has never really gotten in the way of my current games as trivial stuff is just that and I dont really worry about the odd gold piece here or there, even if it is unbalanced compared to our thinking. Just my style.

As The Dark Elf wrote above-
I have to agree. You can employ the same method used before; pieces of 8. use 1/2 's 1/4 '4 an 1/8 's of gold. Ever wonder where the phrase 2 bits 4 bits six bits a dollar came from? Why do 2 bits make a quarter? 8 bits make a whole (coin) thus 2 bits a quarter. Those are the pirates pieces of 8!

[pblackcrow]

I would also like to finally see some of the great art from the book in color just like in RUE.

They can put great artwork in any of the books. Or you could buy the art book.
--------------------------

Agrees with gaaahhhh that I would very much would like to have new source/world books over anything else. PB can slip in the intelligent corrections in those books. Not wasting time of something that is going to turn out bad like a PFUE; and that will take time away from those new source/world books.

I do agree that PB should make a master list of ALL the saving throws (with the associated attribute bonuses listed) and that they should be in a PF book.

Yeah rope should not cost gold nor should a tinder box or a mug of ale. inless gold over flows everywhere.
Nothing wrong with copping DnD's money system as it makes complete sense ( actualy most fantasy systems use it or something simlilar) coper silver and lead coins. Rope should be at max 1/4 a gold peice and it better be the best damn rope heheheh

UNLESS it's demon spider silk rope, or the never ending bag of rope, it shouldn't in gold.

[pblackcrow]

The money thing has never really gotten in the way of my current games as trivial stuff is just that and I dont really worry about the odd gold piece here or there, even if it is unbalanced compared to our thinking. Just my style.

We are or were using the "The Great Net Equipment List" for AD&D in the new world/realm and everyone loved it.

[pblackcrow]

The money thing has never really gotten in the way of my current games as trivial stuff is just that and I dont really worry about the odd gold piece here or there, even if it is unbalanced compared to our thinking. Just my style.

As The Dark Elf wrote above-
I have to agree. You can employ the same method used before; pieces of 8. use 1/2 's 1/4 '4 an 1/8 's of gold. Ever wonder where the phrase 2 bits 4 bits six bits a dollar came from? Why do 2 bits make a quarter? 8 bits make a whole (coin) thus 2 bits a quarter. Those are the pirates pieces of 8!

Yes, but when the cheapest thing in the book is 1 or 2 items at 1/2 a gold...doesn't exactly work real well. Don't get me wrong I get what you're saying.

[Arthemus]

I couldn't care less if rope costs gold myself. I really don't want more numbers to micro-manage. Do you really want to keep track of silver and copper? Perhaps gold is more abundant on the Palladium world, thus making it less valuable. Maybe silver and copper are even more rare. No reason to apply economic principles from other RPGs to this one.

What I'd like is more resources, especially Old Kingdom books. I've been looking forward to those books for years. I'd also like a few tweaks to some rules, mainly OCCs. Example: A level 1 Long Bowman with no PP bonus has no strike bonus with a bow unless she uses 2 attacks for a carefully aimed shot. Seems odd to me. I'd like to see a few more class-specific bonuses to the men-at-arms classes.

[t0m]

i would rather see effort placed primarily on the remaining world books before anything else.

[pblackcrow]

Arthemus:
Then the prices in the book should reflect that. They do not, and are all over the place.

t0m:
I AGREE with you and all of the other posters who have stated such and will state such, but this is a what if scenario. So you guys know, I am just stating some ideas and opinions on what would make be a nicer core rules book. But I am totally with you guys on that. I just see no reason to hold back ideas and thoughts.

[Severus Snape]

I also hope like heck they change their ENTIRE monetary system!!! Redo the prices of stuff, and try to actually avoid putting EVERYTHING IN GOLD! I'm sorry, but THAT IS MY BIGGEST COMPLAINT WITH THE SYSTEM! Well, that, and the fact that they are so bloody slow in getting the books out.

As far as the money issue goes, I use the standard equipment lists from any of the 2E AD&D books for prices, and I've implemented the use of Copper, Silver, Electrum, Gold, and Platinum in my games. However, as a tribute to Kevin and all he's done for role-playing games, I changed Platinum to be Palladium.

I have had no complaints about using this system, and it eliminates a lot of issues regarding how much stuff costs.

[Arthemus]

Revamp spell costs so a 1st level caster cannot spam spells like Blinding Flash. It is essentially a save or die spell much like that other game.

Blinding Flash doesn't just hit one person. It fills an entire 10' area. Seems really dangerous. Are his fellow party members getting hit by it? If not, how do they know when to close their eyes? How about innocent passers-by? Probably might draw some unwanted attention from local reinforcements. Sounds like an opportunity for any enterprising GM!

[Cinos]

So, in the February 23rd Weekly Update Kevin said, "...and special projects like a Palladium Fantasy® RPG Ultimate Edition (something I’ve been secretly kicking around for several years – but no promises).
So, it seems there is a small chance of getting the Ultimate Edition treatment. What do you want to see, and what do you not want to see? Try to keep it reasonable...

Land of the Damned 3 and the rest of the Mysteries of Magic series.

Anything else.

A nail some where has been hit.

[ZorValachan]

So, in the February 23rd Weekly Update Kevin said, "...and special projects like a Palladium Fantasy® RPG Ultimate Edition (something I’ve been secretly kicking around for several years – but no promises).
So, it seems there is a small chance of getting the Ultimate Edition treatment. What do you want to see, and what do you not want to see? Try to keep it reasonable...

How about a return to First Edition rules, but with the point-based magic system of 2nd edition?

Although, I guess I already play my own version like that.

I've stated this more than once. it is the best by far.

[pblackcrow]

As far as the money issue goes, I use the standard equipment lists from any of the 2E AD&D books for prices, and I've implemented the use of Copper, Silver, Electrum, Gold, and Platinum in my games. However, as a tribute to Kevin and all he's done for role-playing games, I changed Platinum to be Palladium.

I have had no complaints about using this system, and it eliminates a lot of issues regarding how much stuff costs.

Our group went to copper, silver, electrum, gold, platinum, adamantite, orichlem, mithril, chromenium, and tellon money based system on Revolox. True, they differed from region to region as to their status and overall value as coins. Example: an HONEST money changer in Lilia would give you 1 silver for every 25 Alitanian copper, because of the size of them, and look at you like you've lost your mind for expecting straight or better exchange of chromenium. You get 1 adamantite and 1 orichlem. Not because of size but because of purity. However, the bars are standard price anywhere.

[everloss]

Revamp spell costs so a 1st level caster cannot spam spells like Blinding Flash. It is essentially a save or die spell much like that other game.

Blinding Flash doesn't just hit one person. It fills an entire 10' area. Seems really dangerous. Are his fellow party members getting hit by it? If not, how do they know when to close their eyes? How about innocent passers-by? Probably might draw some unwanted attention from local reinforcements. Sounds like an opportunity for any enterprising GM!

Yeah, I think Blinding Flash is a great low-level spell, from both a player and GM standpoint. I wouldn't change it at all.

[ZorValachan]

As I highly doubt that my wish of it going back to be more like 1st ed will happen, I will add this:

Armor stats need to be updated. The current stats are the same as they were in 1st edition. Now characters have S.D.C and with physical skills, can get higher H.P. As it is, a character's body can easily have more S.D.C than their armor. Add to this the fact that a Priest and other O.C.C.s can heal a character's H.P. and S.D.C, and armor S.D.C. must be forged or bought, Monetarily wise, I've had player's who did not wear armor because they were 'better' without it.

[Reagren Wright]

I wanted the skills from Rifts Ultimate Edition, Dead Reign, and BtS to end up in PFRPG. Forced
March which every soldier, mercenary warrior, etc has should receive the bonuses that it does in
the previous games that it doesn't show in PFRPG. I want all the transfer info that's in Rifts
Conversion Revised put into PFRPG. For example, in Rifts Conversion Book Revised it says elves
that come from PFRPG dimension have a natural aptitude and eons of tradition in the art of the
long bow provides them one extra attack per melee if the archery skill is taken. They also get
+2% bonus to all wilderness skills. This is not mentioned at all in current PFRPG 2nd edition and
was never mentioned in 1st edition either. Furthermore in PFRPG it says elves also exhabit a
reasonably high percentage of psychic ability (see determining psionics0. Well on page 21 there
is nothing different about the percentage chance of elves getting psychic abilities compared to
anyone else. This is also not mentioned in Rifts Conversion Old edition or Revised so if you do an
Ultimate Edition either change it or take out of the written content. I want the spells that where
in 1st edition like Strength of Utgard Loki put back into book, even though they are now
supposedly back in cannon because they where stated out in Rifter #25. I can't personally thing
of anything else except additional weapons from the Compendium of Weapons that needs to be
in a Ultimate Edition. Oh I know, put the O.C.C.s from Yin Sloth Jungle (still trapped in 1st
edition) in the book (Undead Hunter, Witch Hunter, Holy Crusader, Beast Master). That way if
and whenever that book comes out it will be shorter print, so it won't take as long as to revise
and get out to the public.

[everloss]

As I highly doubt that my wish of it going back to be more like 1st ed will happen, I will add this:

Armor stats need to be updated. The current stats are the same as they were in 1st edition. Now characters have S.D.C and with physical skills, can get higher H.P. As it is, a character's body can easily have more S.D.C than their armor. Add to this the fact that a Priest and other O.C.C.s can heal a character's H.P. and S.D.C, and armor S.D.C. must be forged or bought, Monetarily wise, I've had player's who did not wear armor because they were 'better' without it.

Agreed. Armor and weapon damage did not increase, even though character's total (HP+SDC) amount of damage they can take basically doubled.

Armor Rating should also be increased as the Strike bonuses have become so ridiculous that armor is almost never hit.

[--Remi Diel--]

I really like the idea of PFUE, I'm sure it'll help sales of the line and maybe spark some new interest in PFRPG. However, the book needs to be done right, and RUE is a VERY bad example. Then again PFUE would be completely pointless without more book support for the line. Any UE book for any Palladium line should be followed by at least two other title releases for that line within the same year. Otherwise it's BTS2 all over again.

Chances are I'd buy a PFUE, as long as it doesn't have any full-color two-page ads for a FAILED gaming platform.

- Remi

[gaby]

Rules on Making Magic Weapons,Armors and Items.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Rules on Making Magic Weapons,Armors and Items.

These are reserved for alchemists in PF canon.

For PC's to make more then a talisman takes an adventure.

[gdub411]

More detailed and definitive combat rules. Better structure and organization in the book as well as a revamped old combat tables brought back to make men of arms a more viable choice.

[Mediapig71]

Well, I would liek to see them tweak paired weapons so it;s not so overpowering. Beyond that, maybe include more OCC's, more monsters, color art, etc. The game is pretty complete a sis, maybe tweak the classes a bit to balance them more (like the Knight & Paladin.)

[UR Leader Hobbes]

I'll be addressing this in a future post.. I'm doing a detailed review of the PFRPG 2nd Edition..

If Palladium is really thinking about releasing an Ultimate edition I hope they at least take the time to read my review of the core book to fix issues that I've found within.

An Ultimate Edition could be the be all end all for rules and clarifications.

[scottypotty]

Well, I have never played PFRP, but I've wanted to for a long time. My current group is playing Rifts and I figured it would be a good change of pace later on as the game system is similar. I have played Rifts very little before the ultimate edition, and it was a huge help. The RUE made some great changes and give the game a great looking book. But as I had read through the PFRP book, I believe it needs a pretty major overhaul. It needs to seperate itself from Rifts. I don't like reading through a book and geting references to other games like it assumes I know them. I can't take it seriously when it is automatically assumed to be the little brother of another game. Like it's assumed the only people who play it also play Rifts. That's a pretty select demographic among gamers...a select demographic.

-Drop psychics. Magic is all that's needed, it's a fantasy setting, and there are several types of magic already.

-Get rid of leylines. They don't seem to be a major focus in the game, why make it "Rifts Fantasy". Places of power could still exist, and all fantasy type games have their own unique interdimensional portals.

The armor and OCC issues are a little beyond me as I don't have the experience to attest to them. But as an outsider looking in, there's a reason I have never played PFRP. It was not worth the trouble. A bit confusing in places, lack of streamlining, and the product never felt like it had a final polishing. Like it was thrown together too quickly. Now with the changes that have and continue to happen in the RPG world, PFRP has a good oportunity to get some love. Provided the average gamer can pick up a copy and get excited.

[Nightmask]

Well, I have never played PFRP, but I've wanted to for a long time. My current group is playing Rifts and I figured it would be a good change of pace later on as the game system is similar. I have played Rifts very little before the ultimate edition, and it was a huge help. The RUE made some great changes and give the game a great looking book. But as I had read through the PFRP book, I believe it needs a pretty major overhaul. It needs to seperate itself from Rifts. I don't like reading through a book and geting references to other games like it assumes I know them. I can't take it seriously when it is automatically assumed to be the little brother of another game. Like it's assumed the only people who play it also play Rifts. That's a pretty select demographic among gamers...a select demographic.

-Drop psychics. Magic is all that's needed, it's a fantasy setting, and there are several types of magic already.

Except there's nothing about psychics that isn't fantasy, and they're included because many people actually like having psychics. If you don't like them you don't have to include them in your game but for those that do we don't like the idea of being discriminated against to the point of having an entire section we like removed for those who don't like it. Better to have it in than not and have people going 'well they left out what I like I'm going to go play another game system'.

[MaxxSterling]

What Drew Kitty said way up top. Along time ago, doing this would have been great. But this company has gone WAY down hill and it wasn't even at the top when it started! Re-doing this now would likely ruin PFRPG altogether. PFRPG is one of the few settings that basically works, doesn't have too many issues and is playable. It needs some treatment, but i think it's best to wait until some other company buys out K.S. d20izes this stuff and hopefully fixes everything from the ground up. -My dream, love it or not. Oh yeah, and in my dream, C.J. Carella is there too.

[gdub411]

^..don't love it. Not by far.

[scottypotty]

Well, I have never played PFRP, but I've wanted to for a long time. My current group is playing Rifts and I figured it would be a good change of pace later on as the game system is similar. I have played Rifts very little before the ultimate edition, and it was a huge help. The RUE made some great changes and give the game a great looking book. But as I had read through the PFRP book, I believe it needs a pretty major overhaul. It needs to seperate itself from Rifts. I don't like reading through a book and geting references to other games like it assumes I know them. I can't take it seriously when it is automatically assumed to be the little brother of another game. Like it's assumed the only people who play it also play Rifts. That's a pretty select demographic among gamers...a select demographic.

-Drop psychics. Magic is all that's needed, it's a fantasy setting, and there are several types of magic already.

Except there's nothing about psychics that isn't fantasy, and they're included because many people actually like having psychics. If you don't like them you don't have to include them in your game but for those that do we don't like the idea of being discriminated against to the point of having an entire section we like removed for those who don't like it. Better to have it in than not and have people going 'well they left out what I like I'm going to go play another game system'.

I understand your point. People like things the way they are and no one is forced to use every aspect of the game. I just don't see it being around for a long time as is. It's an excellent classic roleplaying game made by people who really care about the craft and not the money. They have to be progressive in developement, and PFRP is an excellent oportunity with an ultimate edition. Maybe it just needs a complete re-write and nothing else. Revamp the text and breathe some fresh life into the game.

[everloss]

-Drop psychics. Magic is all that's needed, it's a fantasy setting, and there are several types of magic already.

-Get rid of leylines. They don't seem to be a major focus in the game, why make it "Rifts Fantasy". Places of power could still exist, and all fantasy type games have their own unique interdimensional portals.

The armor and OCC issues are a little beyond me as I don't have the experience to attest to them. But as an outsider looking in, there's a reason I have never played PFRP. It was not worth the trouble. A bit confusing in places, lack of streamlining, and the product never felt like it had a final polishing. Like it was thrown together too quickly. Now with the changes that have and continue to happen in the RPG world, PFRP has a good oportunity to get some love. Provided the average gamer can pick up a copy and get excited.

Psychics in PFRPG are awesome. Much better treatment than in Rifts.

I completely agree about getting rid of ley lines on the Palladium World. I've always excluded them in my games.

Armor Rating needs to be reworked in a new edition. Because PFRPG got the Rifts treatment in 2nd edition, characters have ridiculous bonuses to strike, making the Armor Ratings (which were not really changed from 1st edition) pretty much pointless. 2nd edition armor is almost a waste of money, as it will more than likely never be hit - either the attacker will miss completely or roll above the armor class. Unless you wear Full Plate, which gives all kinds of penalties. I've always just raised the AR a point or three for each type of armor when running 2nd edition.

I find your last paragraph to be hilarious since it's coming from a Rifts player.

[scottypotty]

Haha, I'm not an avid Rifts player. I just happen to be currently playing it. And I gaurantee I've got things wrong with my character, I just don't care enough to re-check everything.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Well, I have never played PFRP, but I've wanted to for a long time. My current group is playing Rifts and I figured it would be a good change of pace later on as the game system is similar. I have played Rifts very little before the ultimate edition, and it was a huge help. The RUE made some great changes and give the game a great looking book. But as I had read through the PFRP book, I believe it needs a pretty major overhaul. It needs to separate itself from Rifts. I don't like reading through a book and getting references to other games like it assumes I know them. I can't take it seriously when it is automatically assumed to be the little brother of another game. Like it's assumed the only people who play it also play Rifts. That's a pretty select demographic among gamers...a select demographic.

-Drop psychics. Magic is all that's needed, it's a fantasy setting, and there are several types of magic already.

Except there's nothing about psychics that isn't fantasy, and they're included because many people actually like having psychics. If you don't like them you don't have to include them in your game but for those that do we don't like the idea of being discriminated against to the point of having an entire section we like removed for those who don't like it. Better to have it in than not and have people going 'well they left out what I like I'm going to go play another game system'.

The PFRPG setting is the Older brother to the Rifts setting so you have you analogy wrong. They assume that readers have come from playing PF1, not rifts.

This is a major problem with RUE and all the recent PB main books. They assume that things/concepts which are in PF1,BTS1 are known to the people reading the new Main Books.

The PF1 book came out after M&M introduced psychics to it's game. So they were already in the RPG Gaming stew pot when KS made the PFRPG 1st ed. So I see no reason to drop them. Besides they would have to reinvent the PsiHealer PCC into some sort of healer that uses PPE, so there would be a healer class outside of the priesthood.

[MADMANMIKE]

The PF1 book came out after M&M introduced psychics to it's game. So they were already in the RPG Gaming stew pot when KS made the PFRPG 1st ed.

M&M?

[drewkitty ~..~]

The PF1 book came out after M&M introduced psychics to it's game. So they were already in the RPG Gaming stew pot when KS made the PFRPG 1st ed.

M&M?

It is a simple letter replacement of That other fantasy game name.

[scottypotty]

I know it came after Rifts, but my point was that it refers to Rifts rather than just be its own entity. I'm not referring to age, just the amount of books and player base. There wouldn't be more Rifts books if there weren't more players. So it's safe to assume PF would draw more players form Rifts than Rifts draws from PF. Either way, I believe players outside of the Palladium Megaverse need to be drawn in. Someone at a game store should be able to pick up a copy of PFUE and buy it because it seems like an awesome game to play. Right now, people get introduced to the system by someone who already plays it, and they have to order their books online or through a store. The game needs an update. Not so much with the core rules, but with it's image. Palladium Books is in my opinion the last great roleplaying game company. It is also a victim of it's own obstinance. An ultimate edition is an excellent chance to be progressive.

[Chronicle]

of all things i do dislike the armor rating system, though i see its merits