Would any Marine bases survive?

[Jason Richards]

Would any Marine bases survive? I'm thinking... "no," as all would be swallowed up in the tsunamis that hit. Naturally, the Ticonderoga survived, as did some other Naval vessels that were out at sea, but I'm thinking that the Marine bases were more or less toast and, at best, would be totally ineffective in Chaos Earth. Agreed?

Here's a list:

Albany Marine Corps Logistics Base
Beaufort MCAS
Camp Butler
Camp Lejeune MCB
Camp Pendleton MCB
Cherry Point MCAS
Cherry Point Naval Aviation Depot
Hawaii MCB
Marine Corps Recruit Depot
Marine Corps Logistics Base
Miramar MCAS
New River MCAS
Parris Island Recruit Depot
Quantico MCB
Twentynine Palms MCAGCC

[Jason Richards]

29 palms is wiped out by the floods, right? If not that, the earthquakes.

I think the rising sea level and the tsunamis would pretty much annhialate the Marines and the Navy.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Yes, the Marines and Navy would be more or less wiped out.

Their sudden "snuff-out" from the planet is probably what will lead them to be legendary by the time of the Rifts Saga. (The Coalition Navy and the army in general hold a high reference for the US maines, granting them a legendary status)

[Jason Richards]

So, with the exception of the rare Navy ship or boat that was deployed at the time of the Cataclysm (like the Ticonderoga and her escorts), and some Marines here or there (survival in California, no matter the location, seems very iffy to me), only the military bases in the heartland would have survived; basically the Air Force and the Army.

The Air Force would have limited effectiveness, given that flight would become precarious with all of the bizarre weather and the soot in the air. NEMA doesn't seem to have an air wing.

The Army is the other part of that equation. A great deal of the Army would have survived the initial days... far more than any other branch, one would think.

And then, of course, the various National Guards would be up and active as well, alongside NEMA.

Sound about right?

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

So, with the exception of the rare Navy ship or boat that was deployed at the time of the Cataclysm (like the Ticonderoga and her escorts), and some Marines here or there (survival in California, no matter the location, seems very iffy to me), only the military bases in the heartland would have survived; basically the Air Force and the Army.

The Air Force would have limited effectiveness, given that flight would become precarious with all of the bizarre weather and the soot in the air. NEMA doesn't seem to have an air wing.

The Army is the other part of that equation. A great deal of the Army would have survived the initial days... far more than any other branch, one would think.

And then, of course, the various National Guards would be up and active as well, alongside NEMA.

Sound about right?

Sounds good.

And remember, the Army uses the Gunbuster, Bulldog, Mastiff and other NEMA mecha.

I remember in one of my campaigns a remnant squad of Marines with Semper Fis arrived in Chicagoland and made life tough for NEMA as the entire squad resented that NEMA was in charge after the cataclysm.

Last I left them they were quietly building a small guerilla army from NEMA deserters and other remnant forces. All led by an unbalanced megalomaniac.

The Human Condition is the true fruit of story telling when it comes to Chaos Earth

[Dustin Fireblade]

Thats basically what I've been working on for my game:
viewtopic.php?t=30570


I've been doing a lot of re-design work on the US military, as they were re-building their forces in the new "Cold War" that was going on. Figure need to know what it was like before you tear it up.

[Jason Richards]

The Human Condition is the true fruit of story telling when it comes to Chaos Earth

Exactly right. Maybe you should write a bunch of Chaos Earth sourcebooks!

Actually, I wish one of my players from the last CE game I ran at Gen Con would write it up here on the boards. It illustrated that mindset to a "t."

[Jeffrey W.]

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents here.

The BRAC commission will continue to meet approximately eight more times prior to the end of the Golden Age of Man, and the apocalypse on Earth. Many of those bases will already have been decommissioned before Chaos Earth or Rifts. Our smaller, leaner, more capable Corps will require less support bases and more mobile weapon platforms.

Some troubled regions of the world today will already be stabilized with permanant Marine Camps by then to ensure world peace and stability (i.e. Gitmo, the DMZ in Korea, etc.) Use your imagination for new/future locations for Marines (i.e. Camp Fallujah)

A tsunami will have minimal effect on Navy and Marine assets. Our U.S. fleet in the Indian Ocean went unscathed recently during a crash course in reality.

Rifts Worldbooks already make note of the fact that our Army and Air Force would be toast in an apocalypse. Our Fleet Marine Force would survive underseas, and have the resources to adapt to global changes, because of self dependence for the most part.

Serving proudly 18 yrs.,
Semper Fi
Jeffrey W.

[Jefffar]

Some bases will be obliterate, some will be heavily damaged, some will be lightly damaged. It depends ont he individual base and good fortune.

Resources at sea will have a slightly higher initial survivability but unless they can establish a shore base they will see a very limited lifespan (note that the Ticonderoga has a shore base).

[Jason Richards]

Okay, 29 Palms is right at 100 miles from the coast, and is 2001 feet above sea level. It could survive the tsunami, but likely wouldn't go unscathed. As close as it is to the coastline, it is even closer to numerous fault lines, including the San Andreas fault. So, there's one that could have survived. As for their impact on Chaos Earth... unknown, but it's possible that they were able to do some good, though their numbers would be small. It seems unlikely that they could have made their way to the heartland, but it's possible.

Begging every sailor's pardon, but with the exception of the Ticonderoga and some other boats, the Navy is toast. The coastline bases are gone. The tsunamis are a "tad" bigger than those that hit Indonesia, and would easily capsize a ship of any size if too close to shore. And further, if anyone did survive, they had no way to reach civilization, since everything within 100 miles of the coast was wiped out. All they would find is a world of monsters and magic (as per Rifts Underseas). I think it can be assumed that the Ticonderoga and her fleet constitute the remains of the U.S. Navy.

It seems to me that the Air Force and the Army would be the best-preserved. Flying, as I mentioned, would be tough in the atmospheric conditions of Rifts Earth, which would limit the effectiveness of the Air Force. The Army would boast the most troops outside of NEMA, with ready access to the heartland.

[Jason Richards]

Anyone think about the Marine Base in Iwakuni Japan? Not withstanding any other USMC detachments sitting in the Japanese sector? Remember we do have Marines Forward Deployed due to the Amphib base in Sasebo. Also there are other join commands throughout the Naval and Air Force/Army bases where marines stationed (not in any large groups, but still got a few leather necks running around).

If they survived, they would have no way to impact North America.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Has the Atlantis Tsunami even happened yet.

I thought that Atlantis dropped in a few months or even years into the cataclysm.

[Jason Richards]

Has the Atlantis Tsunami even happened yet.

I thought that Atlantis dropped in a few months or even years into the cataclysm.

There is no indication in Chaos Earth that it returned at the beginning, and if it had shown up initially, they would have known.

[Jefffar]

Ships at sea would survive a tsunami, provided they weren't too close to the coast.

At sea the tsunami has no signifigant effect on surface conditions. It's when it begisn to be forced upward by a shore line that the wae becoems dangerous and destructive.

Tsunami is a japanese term meaning "harbour wave" the name comes about because fishermetn at sea would come home to find their villages destroyed by waves but they noticed nothing out on the sea.

Now the naval assets would be outta luck without a shore base or a way to repair, refit and rearm themselves very early in the post cataclysm.

[Jeffrey W.]

I strongly agree with Jefffar, and respectfully disagree with many others.

We're talking about 2098 A.D. (not 2005 A.D.) when according to Rifts Worldbook Seven, page 106, the Navy of the American Empire had reacted to the "New Cold War" by building the first of five of a new style of submersible carriers. (Perhaps the older styles of submersible carriers had been decommissioned during an era of peace).

The Navy would no longer rely upon use of surface escort fleets, but would use only two escort submarines.

The book reads...''the US Navy built a string of secret bases throughout the Pacific''...''were placed in small uninhabited islands, built deep underground and underwater; all mega-damage structures strong enough to withstand a nuclear attack"..."The frightened and desperate shipmen were elated to discover that the other two bases, though slightly damaged, had survived relatively unharmed.''

As our non mega-damage fleet of 2005 A.D. fares extremely well against hydrodynamic forces, imagine how well our mega damage "New Cold War" Navy of 2098 A.D. would do.

As the Navy lost all satellite communications with North America, and with no message traffic intercepts, they continued civilized life in the Pacific while North America fell into barbarism and the second Dark Ages.

Seems to me only Jefffar is seeing this clearly... (No disrespect intended to the misguided landlubbers out there)

[Jason Richards]

I strongly agree with Jefffar, and respectfully disagree with many others.

We're talking about 2098 A.D. (not 2005 A.D.) when according to Rifts Worldbook Seven, page 106, the Navy of the American Empire had reacted to the "New Cold War" by building the first of five of a new style of submersible carriers. (Perhaps the older styles of submersible carriers had been decommissioned during an era of peace).

The Navy would no longer rely upon use of surface escort fleets, but would use only two escort submarines.

The book reads...''the US Navy built a string of secret bases throughout the Pacific''...''were placed in small uninhabited islands, built deep underground and underwater; all mega-damage structures strong enough to withstand a nuclear attack"..."The frightened and desperate shipmen were elated to discover that the other two bases, though slightly damaged, had survived relatively unharmed.''

As our non mega-damage fleet of 2005 A.D. fares extremely well against hydrodynamic forces, imagine how well our mega damage "New Cold War" Navy of 2098 A.D. would do.

As the Navy lost all satellite communications with North America, and with no message traffic intercepts, they continued civilized life in the Pacific while North America fell into barbarism and the second Dark Ages.

Seems to me only Jefffar is seeing this clearly... (No disrespect intended to the misguided landlubbers out there)

Well, the Ticonderoga was one of a kind at the time of the apocalypse.

And, as I said, some of the Navy (particularly those far from the coastline) would survive, but would have no impact on the North American continent during the time of Chaos Earth. They have no way to communicate with anyone, no means to reach them (in any significant number) and, as Underseas points out, they chose to go to the hidden bases and make new lives. Very few from the Ticonderoga left, and it can probably be assumed the same for most of the rest of the surviving fleet.

[Jeffrey W.]

Jason Richards

...some of the Navy (particularly those far from the coastline) would survive, but would have no impact on the North American continent during the time of Chaos Earth. They have no way to communicate with anyone, no means to reach them (in any significant number)...

Or, consider this...

We know that the U.S. Navy numbered 18,000 at Refuge Base in the months following the Cataclysm. With the Pentagon and Navy Annex gone in Washington, D.C., Capt. Dobson (and other surviving captains) would logically have attempted to contact Pacific Command in Hawaii.

Before humans were using Ley Lines to send transmissions, the New Navy would have been communicating through the limited use of microwave transmissions (due to the absence of working satellites), bouncing radio waves off the surface of the moon, and via sound energy waves transmitted through the ocean itself (a concept some non-Navy gamers might not even know we had developed in the 20th century).

With fragments of N.E.M.A. making a march to Chicago, the U.S. Navy might have concluded that nobody could be found, and decided to become self sufficient. However, they remained a Democracy, and retained the 52 stars and 13 stripes. I believe they are the United States of America, regardless of which U.S. soil they retain control over.

Regretably, Underseas page 107 states "No serious attempt to contact the outside world was made for those years..." and page 109 "The New Navy does not advertise its presence to the outside world. Bad experiences with other nations, many of which tried to steal or swindle the Navy's ships..." makes me believe that the U.S. Navy might not have a future in Chaos Earth.

Personally, I hope that they do. Maybe N.E.M.A. could have a conflict with the USS Ticonderoga. That would be cool, and could count as one of those "Bad experiences" that the Navy had. Would be a good historical tie-in for the Chaos Earth setting as well.

Jeffrey W.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Has the Atlantis Tsunami even happened yet.

I thought that Atlantis dropped in a few months or even years into the cataclysm.

There is no indication in Chaos Earth that it returned at the beginning, and if it had shown up initially, they would have known.

how would they? Satcom is down mostly, the Atlantic oceon would be swirling with massive ley line storms and their spin off hurricanes so what sat pictures they may have gotten early on may be obstructed.

So it it is not guarenteed that they would or would not know squat about Atlantis at this point.

The books tell you things the average joe does not know. So, it would be possible for them to tell us if Atlantis dropped in or not.

Considering the Tsunamis, I'm pretty sure it did already, now that I reconsider.

[Jason Richards]

Has the Atlantis Tsunami even happened yet.

I thought that Atlantis dropped in a few months or even years into the cataclysm.

There is no indication in Chaos Earth that it returned at the beginning, and if it had shown up initially, they would have known.

how would they? Satcom is down mostly, the Atlantic oceon would be swirling with massive ley line storms and their spin off hurricanes so what sat pictures they may have gotten early on may be obstructed.

So it it is not guarenteed that they would or would not know squat about Atlantis at this point.

Initially there was some satellite feed, including pictures of the Earth's surface. There was limited satellite communication for a couple of days. And, the various Triangles were seen glowing and boiling, so if you could see the Bermuda Triangle, you would (theoretically) be able to see at least some of Atlantis. Over the course of a couple of days it would be hard to miss an extra continent.