Whta races can't learn magic and why can't they?

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:19 pm

Now I'm thinking about magic...you saw the question..what your answer?

Blight · Unread post by **Blight** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:28 pm

hawkra, duckra, and the owl looking one. probable to balance the fact they are immune.

Dr. Doom III · Unread post by **Dr. Doom III** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:38 pm

The ones that the books say can't.

Because the books say they can't.

Blight · Unread post by **Blight** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:44 pm

Dr. Doom III wrote:The ones that the books say can't.

Because the books say they can't.

all hail doom master of the obvious

Dr. Doom III · Unread post by **Dr. Doom III** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:50 pm

Blight wrote:all hail doom master of the obvious

A skill strangely difficult to master.

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:53 pm

eric.cline wrote:You may want to check out this thread on OCC restrictions for RCCs:
viewtopic.php?t=38858

I just don't have all the books so I can't really learn magical theory with out covering the basics. Also people come up with new monster or spot thing like...

"wait...he can't do (Insert ability here) he's a (insert creature name here..)"

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Thu May 05, 2005 2:02 pm

I guess PB does get something right somewhere... :shock:

Josh Sinsapaugh · Thu May 05, 2005 3:04 pm

Blight wrote:hawkra, duckra, and the owl looking one. probable to balance the fact they are immune.

Hawrk Duhk, Hawrk Owhl, and Hawrk Ka?

Those are the one's you are referring to IIRC.

grandmaster z0b · Fri May 06, 2005 2:06 am

What about dog boys, other mutants and psi-stalkers.

I assume that psi-stalkers couldn't as they would eat their own PPE reserves.

Killer Cyborg · Fri May 06, 2005 12:22 pm

grandmaster z0b wrote:What about dog boys, other mutants and psi-stalkers.

I assume that psi-stalkers couldn't as they would eat their own PPE reserves.

Psi-stalkers already have PPE, and they don't eat their own reserves now...

Jesterzzn · Unread post by **Jesterzzn** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:03 pm

grandmaster z0b wrote:What about dog boys, other mutants and psi-stalkers.

I assume that psi-stalkers couldn't as they would eat their own PPE reserves.

Dogboys are said to shy away from magic, but are not prohibited from taking a magic OCC.

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Fri May 06, 2005 2:59 pm

Killer Cyborg wrote:
grandmaster z0b wrote:What about dog boys, other mutants and psi-stalkers.

I assume that psi-stalkers couldn't as they would eat their own PPE reserves.

Psi-stalkers already have PPE, and they don't eat their own reserves now...

Is there anykind PPE rich food rations..for Psi-Stalkers and Psi-slayers?

Killer Cyborg · Fri May 06, 2005 4:16 pm

Jesterzzn wrote:
grandmaster z0b wrote:What about dog boys, other mutants and psi-stalkers.

I assume that psi-stalkers couldn't as they would eat their own PPE reserves.

Dogboys are said to shy away from magic, but are not prohibited from taking a magic OCC.

I'm not sure that Dogboys can take ANY character class other than the Dogboy RCC.

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Sat May 07, 2005 11:57 am

I figured the CS made Mentaly predispostioned to there RCC and less able to learn skills than military type.

chaserone · Unread post by **chaserone** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:29 pm

Angus cows, they cant learn magic. *thinks* Most breeds of sheep and probably most breeds of earthworm. *nods* yep, that was an easy question.

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:36 pm

You know chaser, You can be a smart ass some times, right?

but thats a good thing....

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Sat May 07, 2005 1:16 pm

cornholioprime · Sat May 07, 2005 1:19 pm

Rimmerdal wrote:Rmeind to never tell a dog the old joke on the Indian boy got his name....

Captian Picard!!

"Yes, Engineer La Forge???"

"I'm getting Incoherency Readings off the scale!!!!

I'm afraid that our Brains can't take much more of this. Even the Heisenberg Compensators can't make heads or tails of this!!!!"

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Sat May 07, 2005 1:23 pm

Sorry got my brain working on a couple directions and forgot to spell check...

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Sun May 08, 2005 1:35 pm

I AM half native myself...so I hear alot jokes about indians...

and it was a bunch 'pale faces' that said the word Skwa was bad...in Objibawa it menas 'Lady'..if that's bad I'd hate to see what they call really bad..

cornholioprime · Sun May 08, 2005 1:50 pm

Short Answer:

Every Creature in the MEGAVERSE that has P.P.E. has the Potential/Ability to learn/use Magic and/or take up a Magic O.C.C.

Beyond THAT, however, are other possibilities that may prevent the Creature in question from getting a Magic O.C.C.:

1]] Cutural Mores. In a manner of speaking, one might say that Non-Rogue Coalition Humans and Palladium Dwarves cannot use Magic, even if they meet the Requirements of a given School.

2]] Personal or Racial Inclination. The Hundred-Handed Ones (Rifts: Pantheons of the Megaverse), for example, can meet the Requirements of at least SOME Schools of Magic despite their low I.Q., but don't take up such O.C.C.s because they are too impatient.

3]] Deliberate Racial Tampering. Do we really need to revisit the story of the Seljuk??

4]] Life Choices made by the individual. "Poor, poor Joe. He was a Ley Line Walker, amongst the most powerful of his kind, that developed an obsession with Full Conversion 'Borgs, and one fateful day...."

5]] Physical Characteristics. What if you're a mute, limbless Creature like the Zembahk, or even a multi-limbed Race like the Octoman with plenty of P.P.E., but your Species has NOT yet learned to adapt Magic for use by their Physical Forms???

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Sun May 08, 2005 1:54 pm

Well, If what you say is right....then the ENTIRE HUMAN race is not normal, HENCE there is no such thing as a mundane...ANYWHERE..

I figure mages might be little more exciting if there we're people born with out PPE...

Infact the idea would be far more compatitible with system...

But a world where anyone can learn magic isn't very special...

Good points though, Corn...

cornholioprime · Sun May 08, 2005 2:03 pm

Rimmerdal wrote:Well, If what you say is right....then the ENTIRE HUMAN race is not normal, HENCE there is no such thing as a mundane...ANYWHERE..

I figure mages might be little more exciting if there we're people born with out PPE...

Infact the idea would be far more compatitible with system...

But a world where anyone can learn magic isn't very special...

What is it, exactly, that makes something special based SOLELY on the number of people that can potentially learn it??

Potentially, almost ANYONE who has Arms and Legs can learn to play the Piano at Concert Level, but playing any Musical Instrument on that level is STILL considered "special." Likewise, piloting a Jet Aircraft. Or going to Med School. Or becoming a Master Chef.

Sorry, but your 'correlation' between the number of people who can potentially learn a Skill, and it's 'specialness,' makes very little sense......

And WHERE, exactly, do you get the Idea that possessing P.P.E. makes you non-normal??? EVERY living (non-plant/microbe) thing, at the very least, has P.P.E. in Rifts. Even a few PLANTS in Rifts have P.P.E.!!!

Killer Cyborg · Sun May 08, 2005 2:11 pm

Rimmerdal wrote:Well, If what you say is right....then the ENTIRE HUMAN race is not normal, HENCE there is no such thing as a mundane...ANYWHERE..

I figure mages might be little more exciting if there we're people born with out PPE...

Infact the idea would be far more compatitible with system...

Only in stead of "compatible," you mean "completely the opposite."
Seriously, get a copy of BtS (original) and READ the section on magic.
If you don't like Palladium's magic system, fine... make up your own.
Just don't claim that it is or should be Palladium's system.

But a world where anyone can learn magic isn't very special...

Nonsense.
Anybody on Earth could be theoretically become an astronaut, but that doesn't mean that astronauts aren't special or important or rare.

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Sun May 08, 2005 2:16 pm

Well one has to remember in rifts people can make it possible to learn how to and get past..

Still I just want to refine the list of EXACT requirements in one place. Not just You need PPE..any player can say with new gm "Well he's Got PPE then he can learn magic...the guides and OCC's say nothing about cultural or physical requirements..

but I would like to see 'real' mundanes who while smart enough to learn magic or having the requirement to learn it, cant...because they lack the PPE.

They'd be great activist, Thieves (No PPE means no dogboy can track scent or PPE) and no Psi-stalkers or Soul Harvester fears..since no PPE they'd over look you...if they we're in a rush.

cornholioprime · Sun May 08, 2005 2:24 pm

Rimmerdal wrote:Well one has to remember in rifts people can make it possible to learn how to and get past..

Still I just want to refine the list of EXACT requirements in one place. Not just You need PPE..any player can say with new gm "Well he's Got PPE then he can learn magic...the guides and OCC's say nothing about cultural or physical requirements..

but I would like to see 'real' mundanes who while smart enough to learn magic or having the requirement to learn it, cant...because they lack the PPE.

They'd be great activist, Thieves (No PPE means no dogboy can track scent or PPE) and no Psi-stalkers or Soul Harvester fears..since no PPE they'd over look you...if they we're in a rush.

You already HAVE the prerequisites in place.

A]] PPE;
B]] Ability to meet the Requirements of the Selected School of Magic;

and

C]] No limiting external factor that will prevent you from learning the School (e.g., you're a permanent Rezident of Chi-Town and you NEVER leave the City, you're a Palladium Dwarf, etc.)

It's been this way for about a zillion years, or at least since the Main Book.

No offense, but your tendency to ask for Answers in this Forum, but then come up with off-the-wall "solutions" and "views" which you THEN try to insist is Canon, is rather annoying.

If you want to know what our own In-Game Solutions to problems are, then say so.

But stop with the (I'll say it) crackpot Theories that you keep coming up with. Victor Lazlo you certainly are not.

Geez Louise, I'm STILL shaking my head at that "Genus Arcanus" crap you pulled out of your Nether Regions a few Posts back....

:nh:

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Sun May 08, 2005 2:32 pm

cornholioprime wrote:Short Answer:

Every Creature in the MEGAVERSE that has P.P.E. has the Potential/Ability to learn/use Magic and/or take up a Magic O.C.C.

Beyond THAT, however, are other possibilities that may prevent the Creature in question from getting a Magic O.C.C.:

1]] Cutural Mores. In a manner of speaking, one might say that Non-Rogue Coalition Humans and Palladium Dwarves cannot use Magic, even if they meet the Requirements of a given School.

2]] Personal or Racial Inclination. The Hundred-Handed Ones (Rifts: Pantheons of the Megaverse), for example, can meet the Requirements of at least SOME Schools of Magic despite their low I.Q., but don't take up such O.C.C.s because they are too impatient.

3]] Deliberate Racial Tampering. Do we really need to revisit the story of the Seljuk??

4]] Life Choices made by the individual. "Poor, poor Joe. He was a Ley Line Walker, amongst the most powerful of his kind, that developed an obsession with Full Conversion 'Borgs, and one fateful day...."

5]] Physical Characteristics. What if you're a mute, limbless Creature like the Zembahk, or even a multi-limbed Race like the Octoman with plenty of P.P.E., but your Species has NOT yet learned to adapt Magic for use by their Physical Forms???

See here's the kind of constructive positive debate I am looking for...Not Cannon references..

I understand a lot of people don't like to change established rules...and I see why myself..on occasion so look at this as IF you were to impalement the idea yourself (pretend you would...) How would you..I know this can be tough..But IF I can do this certainly others can..

I'm not saying it should be used but if by chance we happen at this 'better mouse trap' why shouldn't we use that?

and if not someone may say '"Hey, that be a good house rule.." or use it in a non rifts game...

cornholioprime · Sun May 08, 2005 2:36 pm

Rimmerdal wrote:See here's the kind of constructive positive debate I am looking for...Not Cannon references..

I understand a lot of people don't like to change established rules...and I see why myself..on occasion so look at this as IF you were to impalement the idea yourself (pretend you would...) How would you..I know this can be tough..But IF I can do this certainly others can..

I'm not saying it should be used but if by chance we happen at this 'better mouse trap' why shouldn't we use that?

and if not someone may say '"Hey, that be a good house rule.." or use it in a non rifts game...

If you're NOT looking for Canon Rules:

FIRST of all, say so AT THE OUTSET.

SECONDIf you're looking to make your own non-Canon Pronouncements, Theories, and Views in your own Game, then what do you need these Forums for????

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Sun May 08, 2005 2:50 pm

They are potental ideas...and I need other ideas than my own.

Believe or not There are a few of you helped me refine this by pointing out flaws...so I owe you guys...I think you all know who you are....no need to mention names..so a big thanks those who helped.

Plus I figured you would know it wasn' to replace anything..but I was wrong.

So save the 'you're no lazzlo' for others who just want to make the game a munchkinfest...something I am trying avoid by the way...

besides if we DID come up with something better I'd use it...Plus I live by a little idea

NEVER start revolution with out having a solution to problem ready...

Jesterzzn · Unread post by **Jesterzzn** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:21 am

Rimmerdal wrote:They are potental ideas...and I need other ideas than my own.

Believe or not There are a few of you helped me refine this by pointing out flaws...so I owe you guys...I think you all know who you are....no need to mention names..so a big thanks those who helped.

Your Welcome.