Now many VT's did RDF, ASC and REF have?

[Colonel Wolfe]

Now many VT's did RDF, ASC and REF have?

hmm, Depends on your source.... counting on screen, the RDf has several Thousand... only because that many get blown up on screen.
Rabid has some Decent counts for the ACS era, and Cyclone might be able to ehlp w/ the REF during the Invid invasion... but there are alot fo REF guys, as Sera says the REf outnumbers the Invid. and it depends on if you count Drones as VT's.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Ok....

Here are the on-screen figures for the Southern Cross as compiled by me. These represent only those forces in the UEF that are not part of the Pioneer Mission/REF.

United Earth Forces (2nd Robotech War)
2 Tokugawa-class Super Carriers
29 Tristar-class Cruiser Leaders
104 Ardennes-class Heavy Cruisers
32 Nelson-class Destroyers
15 Pegasus-class Assault Shuttles

Grand total minimum number of Veritechs/Starfighters: 15,460.

Note: Unfortunately, there is no way to count the total number of Destroyers on-screen as the series tends to focus on the mid-range ships more than the smaller ones. However, we do know that in pan shots of smaller units we always see a ratio of 2-to-1 for Destroyers to Heavy Cruisers. That should make it over 200 Destroyers and the fighter total to about: 23,020

Here is the REF space force totals to the best of our ability to decipher (thanks to Olsonk for compiling this list). Its from on-screen counts and stats for mecha to ship ratios. Also included are those onscreen forces of the Pioneer Mission/REF we see in the Southern Cross segment.

Note: There is no way to get an accurate count of the number of ships at Point K in Enter Marlene. The second list also contains ships seen in the beginning of The Invid Invasion.

Pioneer Mission (2nd Robotech War ships)
2 Tokugawa-class Super Carriers
3 Tristar-class Cruiser Leaders
5 Ardennes-class Heavy Cruisers
1 Garfish-class Light Cruiser
6 Nelson-class Destroyers
14 Cheyenne-class Transports

Robotech Expeditionary Force (3rd Robotech War ships)
SDF-4 Izumo-class Flagship
18 Ikazuchi-class Divisional Drop Ships
2 Izum-16 Logistics Ships
55 Garfish-class Light Cruisers
51 Horizon-class Dropships

Minimum Veritech/Starfighter complement: 16,435

This force, unfortunately, does not include the unseen Attack Group 3 from Symphony of Light because it was on the dark side of the Moon awaiting the arrival of the SDF-3 before advancing towards Reflex Point. We have no way of determining how many ships were in that force.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Regarding the UEF numbers, do those minimum numbers assume each ship is filled to the brim with fighters, ie at capacity?

Yes, each is filled to its normal capacity. However, its probable that they could be overloaded by an additional 33%. There does appear to be a precedent for this in the animation as in Triumvirate, Marie Crystal's Ajax squadron was tied down in the main hangar of their Nelson-class Destroyer. In that same episode, we also see Ajax being loaded aboard ship and being tied down in the same fashion. Later, in Mind Games, Marie's squadron appears to be located in a mid-ships hold instead.

I got the impression that constant casualties would have kept the total number of VTs well below ship capacity.... but then you might be counting VTs that were destroyed/deployed throughout the series, so I don't know.

I think you are maybe interpreting the series through the lense of the novels. No offense, but there is not one hint in the Tv series that the casualty rates had exceeded a sustainable level, or else the United Earth Government might have been forced to try and negotiate with the Masters. What is apparent, however, is that most of the ships we see launched later in the series probably didn't have full crew complements at the begining of the war, forcing the UEF to call heavily upon its reserves.

I imagine that most of the United Earth Forces are made up of Category II Readiness divisions etc. That would leave a core Category I Readiness (aka Active PreWar) groups, probably somewhere in the vicinity of 5-6 million soldiers, sailors, airmen, spacers and marines. The reserves could be as high as 10-20 million with an additional 10-20 million from member-states military forces that could be called into planetary service. Of course, the thing is that most of this structure is necessary for logistics.

God only knows how many of these personnel are Zentraedi....at least some probably are simply because of their veteran spacer status. Maybe as high as 1/3 of the active duty space crewers. By mid-war, there are probably also a large percentage (relatively speaking) of the Earthside half-Zentraedi serving in the UEF.

[The Artist Formerly]

I have to disagree RSCF. The very idea that soldiers as poor as Marie Crystal, Dana Sterling and Bowie Grant (just to name a few) were able to not only have jobs as pilots, but to hold positions of some authority screems that the ASC must have been seriously desperate for man power. There's no other way these guys could keep their jobs.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I have to disagree RSCF. The very idea that soldiers as poor as Marie Crystal, Dana Sterling and Bowie Grant (just to name a few) were able to not only have jobs as pilots, but to hold positions of some authority screems that the ASC must have been seriously desperate for man power. There's no other way these guys could keep their jobs.

The exact same thing can be said for the REF, someone as Aweful as Rick Hunter is placed in Command of a entire Fleet? not only were they Desperate, but Dumb as well. "hey, you dated Minmay... you can command this Fleet!"

[The Artist Formerly]

I have to disagree RSCF. The very idea that soldiers as poor as Marie Crystal, Dana Sterling and Bowie Grant (just to name a few) were able to not only have jobs as pilots, but to hold positions of some authority screems that the ASC must have been seriously desperate for man power. There's no other way these guys could keep their jobs.

The exact same thing can be said for the REF, someone as Aweful as Rick Hunter is placed in Command of a entire Fleet? not only were they Desperate, but Dumb as well. "hey, you dated Minmay... you can command this Fleet!"

No arguement from me on those points. Rick is a moron.

I've always argued that a significant number of the REF's troops weren't earthmen born, but cloned from RDF troops with a little help of the Zentraedi clone pods on the factory ship. Not perfect clones of pilots but a little mixing and matching of DNA as things went. Implant some memories (a randomly generated assortment copied from RDF personel as well) then let the "kids" out at differant stages of development (some young adaults/late teens, some earlier then that) to give the kids a sense of background and history and *bang* there goes your labor shortage.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I have to disagree RSCF. The very idea that soldiers as poor as Marie Crystal, Dana Sterling and Bowie Grant (just to name a few) were able to not only have jobs as pilots, but to hold positions of some authority screems that the ASC must have been seriously desperate for man power. There's no other way these guys could keep their jobs.

The exact same thing can be said for the REF, someone as Aweful as Rick Hunter is placed in Command of a entire Fleet? not only were they Desperate, but Dumb as well. "hey, you dated Minmay... you can command this Fleet!"

No arguement from me on those points. Rick is a moron.

I've always argued that a significant number of the REF's troops weren't earthmen born, but cloned from RDF troops with a little help of the Zentraedi clone pods on the factory ship. Not perfect clones of pilots but a little mixing and matching of DNA as things went. Implant some memories (a randomly generated assortment copied from RDF personel as well) then let the "kids" out at differant stages of development (some young adaults/late teens, some earlier then that) to give the kids a sense of background and history and *bang* there goes your labor shortage.

the only Problem with this... the UEF/UEG would have the same technology avalible to them... so really neither would have a Man-power problem if Cloning was an option.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Having the technology and having the will to use it are two different things. I doubt it would go over well with Earth politics. The REF, however, operates so much in deep space that they wouldn't have to deal with politics quite as much as the Earth-bound Southern Cross forces did.

This is of course all supposition.

if the UEF was in a Man-power Crisis, they could easily use this technology w/o Public//Polotical knowledge....
"These are Trrops sent in as reinforcements fomr us-beaks-to-ston"
"that sounds made up"
"You wanna spend the rest of you life in Max security Hiber-Prison?" "oh... I have a Cousin in Use-berker-ston... yeah.. i knwo where that is, nevermind"

i dont think everycongressman is aware of The going ons of the US Millitary... as long as it wasnt to Overt, the UEF could opperate what ever it has to w/ as much freedom as needed.

and really... if the Pre-ROD population was 7 Billion, Kill of 70%, you have 2.1 Billion people left... have 1% of them join the Millitary to protect the earth... 21 Million people in the Armed forces of Earth not bad.

[The Artist Formerly]

the only Problem with this... the UEF/UEG would have the same technology avalible to them... so really neither would have a Man-power problem if Cloning was an option.

The REF didn't have a civilian oversite to deal with. They're off on the deep end of space with no one to ask any questions at all. The ASC didn't have that luxury.

UEF Senator Bob: "And tell General Sifer Dias, exactly what is this fourty million credit expenditure on page fourteen, line 8?"

General Sifer Dias: "Uh... that, that's, uh, nothing."

UEF S.B.: "Nothing? Fourty mill and you spent it on nothing?"

GSD: "Uh. Well, actually it's a medical cost."

UEF S.B.: "Medical bill?"

GSD: "Yeah, that's the ticket. Medical bill!

UEF S.B.: "What exactly would this bill entail? What services were rendered and to whom?

GSD: "We ... got ... Um... Supream Commander Leonard's back waxed?"

UEF S.B.: "You got his back waxed."

.
.
GSD:
.
.
UEF S.B.: "Alright then, next order of busines..."

[Colonel Wolfe]

the only Problem with this... the UEF/UEG would have the same technology avalible to them... so really neither would have a Man-power problem if Cloning was an option.

The REF didn't have a civilian oversite to deal with. They're off on the deep end of space with no one to ask any questions at all. The ASC didn't have that luxury.

UEF Senator Bob: "And tell General Sifer Dias, exactly what is this fourty million credit expenditure on page fourteen, line 8?"

General Sifer Dias: "Uh... that, that's, uh, nothing."

UEF S.B.: "Nothing? Fourty mill and you spent it on nothing?"

GSD: "Uh. Well, actually it's a medical cost."

UEF S.B.: "Medical bill?"

GSD: "Yeah, that's the ticket. Medical bill!

UEF S.B.: "What exactly would this bill entail? What services were rendered and to whom?

GSD: "We ... got ... Um... Supream Commander Leonard's back waxed?"

UEF S.B.: "You got his back waxed."

.
.
GSD:
.
.
UEF S.B.: "Alright then, next order of busines..."

Actually, no one knows exactly how much Authority the Civilian Govenrment has over the Millitary, beyond the Prime minister telling Leonard to Attack the masters at all cost. and its real easy to "Re-Routh funds...
"Oh, that 40 million credit is for new Armor plateing on the Logan Re-fit project"
"I thought we Retired th Logan design"
"we did... but since the Malconeten rebelions have slowed off, we have 5000 of the damn things lying around, and we could at least upgrade the armor on the Deathtraps"
(sadly the logans never see new armor... instead 5000 Cloned pilots find them selves piloting the Logan when the Masters invade)

[Colonel Wolfe]

(sadly the logans never see new armor... instead 5000 Cloned pilots find them selves piloting the Logan when the Masters invade)

But those pilots were the armor...

Whats funny, I figured you can Triple the MDc of the Logan by using CVR-3 & ASC body armor to Replace the Armor plating on the Logan & Bataloids...


or... "Let opperation human-sheild commence"

[Colonel Wolfe]

(sadly the logans never see new armor... instead 5000 Cloned pilots find them selves piloting the Logan when the Masters invade)

But those pilots were the armor...

Whats funny, I figured you can Triple the MDc of the Logan by using CVR-3 & ASC body armor to Replace the Armor plating on the Logan & Bataloids...


or... "Let opperation human-sheild commence"

That's something I'll be fixing in my AARD Season Two thread. Get ready for the return of heavy SDC armor and Penetration Values, and big clunky weapons that require multiple men just to inflict 1D6 MD.

its something i blame on Palladium system... even in Rifts bodyarmor has more MDC/Mass then all other armor types.... compare CS heavy Armor to the Triax Devistator....

[Colonel Wolfe]

Well, Giant Robots I like to think of as being more breakable than, say, a tank or simpler armored vehicle, and since the MDC isn't directly related to armor capacity, but rather a relation of how much damage something can take before breaking down, I can rationalize differences in MDC per size between Giant Robots and normal vehicles.

I have a harder time rationalizing human scale power armor and body armor, yes. Larger vehicles and giant robots should also do more damage than they are listed as doing, as well, by a factor of at least 2.

what? that huge laser on the Devestator doin 1d6x10 is low?

well, the HT measures .1 MDC per pound or Mecha.
The Gladiator at a Whopping .03 MDC per pound.
compared to the Cyclone... at 1.3 MDC per pound.
and the Body armors.. that are 50 MDc... but i dont know what it weighs... cant ifnd it in the book... but it prolly weighs 20 pounds... 2.5 mdc per pound.
but the Mac2 is great... .006 MDC per pound of Machine.
Edit: The Logan is .18 MDC per pound...
thou the Agacs is simmiler to the HT, w/ .1 MDc/pound

[The Artist Formerly]

Colonel Taffy Lt. Marie Crystal Was the Ace of the War for the ASC and She was a great Soilder. On like the Black sheep 15th .
Lt. Crystal Save cav 1 and also saved Major General Rolf Emerson
spaces Force as well .

There is a differance between being a good pilot and a good soldier. Hunter was a good pilot, hell he was a great pilot. Bernard was a good pilot. But they were lousey soldiers.

I been saying that for years that REF were clones. I Think it start back in
GCW with all side use them to keep there fighting strenge high. The RDF Keep it going
in a Black op Under commard of Admiral Hayes with the help of major T.R. Edwards . Thanks to Senator Russo who help keep the under wraps.In space
war one.
Under Dr. Lang and Dr Henry Penn The REF started it up again after space war one. When Admiral Gloval ok it . When REF found the RM homeworld
Rem and Cabell Show the REF how to do it cheeper and eazyer.

Seems likely. We know there are clone creation pods on the Factory ships of the masters as standard equipment and the process is entierly automated. Wouldn't be hard to impart some new DNA and a new batch of memories and *bang* you have thousands of new soldiers ready to fight and die for a home they know they can see if they close their eyes tight and remember.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Colonel Taffy Lt. Marie Crystal Was the Ace of the War for the ASC and She was a great Soilder. On like the Black sheep 15th .
Lt. Crystal Save cav 1 and also saved Major General Rolf Emerson
spaces Force as well .

There is a differance between being a good pilot and a good soldier. Hunter was a good pilot, hell he was a great pilot. Bernard was a good pilot. But they were lousey soldiers.

Bernard was 100x better Soilder/Officer compared to Rick.... wel until the end when he joins the Ranks of Traitos to earth.

But as Always the "Heros" are Generally the excpetion the the Rules, they are more members of the "Good ol-boys" club and are Terrible officers, and Generally let personl feeling get in the way of Orders. A Good Soilder would have Shot Marlean the Moment she started to Bleed Green. And Killed Miryia the moment she exposed her self as an enemy agent trying to Assisnate a Earth personale.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

I've always argued that a significant number of the REF's troops weren't earthmen born, but cloned from RDF troops with a little help of the Zentraedi clone pods on the factory ship. Not perfect clones of pilots but a little mixing and matching of DNA as things went. Implant some memories (a randomly generated assortment copied from RDF personel as well) then let the "kids" out at differant stages of development (some young adaults/late teens, some earlier then that) to give the kids a sense of background and history and *bang* there goes your labor shortage.

Though I think that the REF lacks ethics in large amounts (as the commander of the SDF-4 and Rick Hunter are believers in the 'Scorched Earth' tactic), there would be a significant problem with having cloned soldiers in large amounts. For one thing, per dialogue in the Tv series, by the time of the 2nd Robotech War they are not thought of as truly living human beings in the same fashion as someone who is born. This stretches from the lowliest grunts all the way to Emerson (he expresses similar sentiments) and above.

Its a heck of a lot easier to set up colonies outside the solar system to get your manpower. We have proof in the series, anyway, that the United Earth Forces were already operating a fleet in the Delta Pavonis starsystem by mid-2013 (eps. Khyron's Revenge). It shouldn't be that hard for the UEG to sponsor colonization efforts.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

I have to disagree RSCF. The very idea that soldiers as poor as Marie Crystal, Dana Sterling and Bowie Grant (just to name a few) were able to not only have jobs as pilots, but to hold positions of some authority screems that the ASC must have been seriously desperate for man power. There's no other way these guys could keep their jobs.

Actually....Dana volunteered for the assignent cause Emerson didn't have the cajones to simply assign people. Marie Crystal's unit, naturally, were the first to take the job.

[The Artist Formerly]

I've always argued that a significant number of the REF's troops weren't earthmen born, but cloned from RDF troops with a little help of the Zentraedi clone pods on the factory ship. Not perfect clones of pilots but a little mixing and matching of DNA as things went. Implant some memories (a randomly generated assortment copied from RDF personel as well) then let the "kids" out at differant stages of development (some young adaults/late teens, some earlier then that) to give the kids a sense of background and history and *bang* there goes your labor shortage.

Though I think that the REF lacks ethics in large amounts (as the commander of the SDF-4 and Rick Hunter are believers in the 'Scorched Earth' tactic), there would be a significant problem with having cloned soldiers in large amounts. For one thing, per dialogue in the Tv series, by the time of the 2nd Robotech War they are not thought of as truly living human beings in the same fashion as someone who is born. This stretches from the lowliest grunts all the way to Emerson (he expresses similar sentiments) and above.

Its a heck of a lot easier to set up colonies outside the solar system to get your manpower. We have proof in the series, anyway, that the United Earth Forces were already operating a fleet in the Delta Pavonis starsystem by mid-2013 (eps. Khyron's Revenge). It shouldn't be that hard for the UEG to sponsor colonization efforts.

If they aren't human, then sending them off to die should be that much easier.

The problem with setting up colonies is the same as doing it on earth. You have to wait 18 years and you don't know how viable the canidate will be as a pilot. Some kid from a colony may or may not have the right stuff. Mental attributes, physical stamina, eye sight, reflexes or any other number of requirements needed to be a VT pilot.

But a Roy Folker Clone would.

A kid from the colonies might or might not have solid, unthinking loyalty to the REF and earth. Willing to put his life and liberity on the line for the greater good.

But a clone, properly programed by the clone pod will.

And you'd have to have your head shoved pretty far up your ass to follow Hunter, Emerson, Hayes or Leonard to name a few.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Wait a minute, wasn't the Tokugawa class ship that thing "Major Carpenter" came back in and kamikaze'd into a mothership?

If so, where did the other three you just listed come from, Rabid? I only saw the one.

Well...we see one that is the exact duplicate of the UES Hannibal (Carpenter's ship) sitting on the ground readying for takeoff in Catastrophe.

Another SC Tokugawa is seen in the fleet shots of Mind Games after the engagement is joined. Same ship footage is recycled in Final Nightmare, so I assumed it was the same Tokugawa and not another one.

The final one is seen onscreen in the Ministry of Terrestrial Defense in Catastrophe. The view is of cruisers in space and this one has to be an REF detachment as Emerson ordered all SC cruisers back to Earth to reinforce Army the episode beforehand. It fits nicely with the dialogue about the Old Coots in Ghost Town, so I assumed that somewhere in the cruiser lineup is a Garfish we can't see.

The thing about the Tokugawa's in Mind Games and the onscreen one in Catastrophe is that their hulls are blue-black (as opposed to the Carpenter style tan/brown) and appear to have Tristar-style cruciform reaction engine blocks. Some of the hardcore fans I chat with agreed that these should represent a variant on the basic hull, probably representing newer models.

[Lt. Holmes]

The RDF/REF would NOT use clones as soldiers in any way, shape, or form.

The only reason the Zentradi switched sides was because humans showed them that there is another way of life that's different from what the Masters had born them into. If the humans were to then turn around and start churning out clones to go out and die for them, vast amounts of the Zentradi would simply assume that we were no better than the calous Master's they'd already turned away from and would probably rebel en masse.

No. There would be limited or no use of cloning at all.

But on the flip side, setting up colonies outside the solar system is a process that'll take decades, if not longer. The SDF-3 mission is, to me, to find the Robotech Masters, but also to scout out and identify suitable worlds for colonization. It would be more likely that Moon/Mars/Jupiter colonies would get the funding priorities than any extra-solar colonies.



And as for Hunter, et al... well, the REF knew that the final assault would be their last stand. There were no other viabile military forces that they'd encountered thus far, so the REF knew that if they failed here, there would be nothing to stop the Invid and who knows what sort of galactic chaos they would cause.

If the Invid were allowed to get a foothold on Earth, which would give them a plentiful foodbase from which they could support their race, the Invid would (in the REF's thinking) spread from Earth across the galaxy like a cancer, demoloshing everything and everyone in their path. It was a hard choice, but eventually the order was given that if it looked like the REF was going to lose, the planet would have to be sterilized to contain the Invid contagon. The needs of the many...

[Colonel Wolfe]

The RDF/REF would NOT use clones as soldiers in any way, shape, or form.

The only reason the Zentradi switched sides was because humans showed them that there is another way of life that's different from what the Masters had born them into. If the humans were to then turn around and start churning out clones to go out and die for them, vast amounts of the Zentradi would simply assume that we were no better than the calous Master's they'd already turned away from and would probably rebel en masse.

No. There would be limited or no use of cloning at all.

Since the Tech exists, it would be used some, but not on any large scale, Cloned organs for the wounded is one possible use.

But on the flip side, setting up colonies outside the solar system is a process that'll take decades, if not longer. The SDF-3 mission is, to me, to find the Robotech Masters, but also to scout out and identify suitable worlds for colonization. It would be more likely that Moon/Mars/Jupiter colonies would get the funding priorities than any extra-solar colonies.

Gloval Places Lisa in Charge of a Plan to move off Earth and Take the war to the Masters in "to the Stars"

Thou this program would rely heavly on the SDF-2 (Which was destroyed later that episode) The Program was not Killed by the los of the SDF-2, Carpneter's Ship was Launched in 2014-2015, at most 2 Years after the Destruction of the SDF-1/2. Carpenters Ship is Fold capable, and was sent back from the "Pioneer Expidition"... and he Tells Leonard to Expect no additional Aid from the Pioneer Expidition.

Leonard: You mean you came here alone? There's no more reinforcements coming from the SDF-3? Sorry, Major, but we were hoping for more substantial assistance than that! You must be kidding.
Carpenter: I'm sorry, sir. But what it boils down to is that you cannot expect any further help from the Pioneer Expedition at this time.
Leonard: Huh?
Carpenter: I'm afraid its true. I'm simply relaying the orders from General Rinehardt, commander of the Mission, when I say that they can offer you nothing more.
Leonard: Uh...

And as for Hunter, et al... well, the REF knew that the final assault would be their last stand. There were no other viabile military forces that they'd encountered thus far, so the REF knew that if they failed here, there would be nothing to stop the Invid and who knows what sort of galactic chaos they would cause.

Did you see the Last Episode of Invid invasion? The REF ground forces were Stomping the Invid a new one. but the REf Still Launched w//o waiting on any reports from the Shadow units on the Ground. The only reason the Invid Lived and Survived the War, Team Bernard.

If the Invid were allowed to get a foothold on Earth, which would give them a plentiful foodbase from which they could support their race, the Invid would (in the REF's thinking) spread from Earth across the galaxy like a cancer, demoloshing everything and everyone in their path. It was a hard choice, but eventually the order was given that if it looked like the REF was going to lose, the planet would have to be sterilized to contain the Invid contagon.

The Invid had been on earth for 4-13 years no matter which Timeline you use, Stoped at least 2 Reclamtion forces form retaking the earth, Stopmed the ASC... if they didnt have a Foothold by the Time Scott was sent back....

The Invid had no plans for anythign beyond Earth, and Replacing humanity in the Evolution of Earth. if they were Truly Agressive, they would have went after the REF after Lancers Group was taken out... but wait... no Capital ships...

The needs of the many...

Unless there were Tons of Extra Solar Colonies, The "Many"were still on earth. As Many Humans as Scot and crew encounter, the Earth is by no means underpopulated, with Millions of Humans still on planet.

[Lt. Holmes]

And as for Hunter, et al... well, the REF knew that the final assault would be their last stand. There were no other viabile military forces that they'd encountered thus far, so the REF knew that if they failed here, there would be nothing to stop the Invid and who knows what sort of galactic chaos they would cause.

Did you see the Last Episode of Invid invasion? The REF ground forces were Stomping the Invid a new one. but the REf Still Launched w//o waiting on any reports from the Shadow units on the Ground. The only reason the Invid Lived and Survived the War, Team Bernard.

But the REF in space were having their asses kicked, and the ground troops can only hold out for so long without space-based backup. And there were billions of Invid troops to fight them. The REF just couldn't stand forever against those numbers.

If the Invid were allowed to get a foothold on Earth, which would give them a plentiful foodbase from which they could support their race, the Invid would (in the REF's thinking) spread from Earth across the galaxy like a cancer, demoloshing everything and everyone in their path. It was a hard choice, but eventually the order was given that if it looked like the REF was going to lose, the planet would have to be sterilized to contain the Invid contagon.

The Invid had been on earth for 4-13 years no matter which Timeline you use, Stoped at least 2 Reclamtion forces form retaking the earth, Stopmed the ASC... if they didnt have a Foothold by the Time Scott was sent back....

The Invid had no plans for anythign beyond Earth, and Replacing humanity in the Evolution of Earth. if they were Truly Agressive, they would have went after the REF after Lancers Group was taken out... but wait... no Capital ships...

We the viewers know that because the story told us The REF and other military people had no idea that the Invid were going to leave or just live in peace on Earth. And given the stories the Zentradi and Musica must've told about the Invid from the Masters' point of view, I doubt the REF would've had much doubt as to the killer locust Invid Hoard.

The needs of the many...

Unless there were Tons of Extra Solar Colonies, The "Many"were still on earth. As Many Humans as Scot and crew encounter, the Earth is by no means underpopulated, with Millions of Humans still on planet.

There's also the factor of all the OTHER alien species living in the universe, whomever they might be. As far as the REF knew, the Invid killed and destroyed all in their path, regardless of species or background. Given that, the use of the Neutron-S missles isn't such a horrendous idea afterall.

[Colonel Wolfe]

And there were billions of Invid troops to fight them.

Sera Tells the Group the Humans have a Supeior Numerical advantage... unless the REF has Billions of Troops... the invid have less then 100,000 active invid world wide.

We the viewers know that because the story told us The REF and other military people had no idea that the Invid were going to leave or just live in peace on Earth. And given the stories the Zentradi and Musica must've told about the Invid from the Masters' point of view, I doubt the REF would've had much doubt as to the killer locust Invid Hoard.

only the Masters Mention the Invid, IF Musica & the Tirolian Survivors Made it to the REF, they REf would have more Recon on them, but nothing on Screen implies any Masters Era Character lived past the Invid Invasion. The Zentradi Mention nothing of the Invid in either the Origonal Series, or the Sentinels.

There's also the factor of all the OTHER alien species living in the universe, whomever they might be. As far as the REF knew, the Invid killed and destroyed all in their path, regardless of species or background. Given that, the use of the Neutron-S missles isn't such a horrendous idea afterall.

but, only 4 Races Exist in Robotech, Humans, Invid, Tirolians and Zents... and 2 of the 4 are Defeated by humanity.

Add the Sentinels.

you have the Sentinels Worlds. all have Races, and are Full of Invid. the REf Defeats and Liberates each and every Planet even Optera, each of the Planets Grow the FOL and can produce Protoculture.... The Regents Forces Control more Planets, and have More types of Units. Even with a Simmiler amount of Actual invid, the Regent Still uses an Untold amount of Inorganics that he can create, as well as Actually having a Type of Capital ship... but with comparatiovly short ranged weapons compared to REf Ships.

If the REf Sentinels are able to Liberate and Defeat the Invid of the Regent, Why not to the same thing on Earth? its not like the Invid dont have Protoculture and the FOL... by that Canon Zor and the Masters Seeded dozens of Planets with the FOL. the Invid on earth really had nothing more then the Regents Invid, maybe higher Quality FOL, but that was one Planet compared to 6 the Invid had in Sentinels Space....

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Sera Tells the Group the Humans have a Supeior Numerical advantage... unless the REF has Billions of Troops... the invid have less then 100,000 active invid world wide.

The REF probably bring somewhere close to 10 divisions to bear on Reflex Point...or at least try. We hear of four being said to have been knocked out already in the dialogue.

But, only 4 Races Exist in Robotech, Humans, Invid, Tirolians and Zents... and 2 of the 4 are Defeated by humanity.

Actually, you forgot The Disciples of Zor, plus the Masters imply there are other cultures out there in the universe...though its assumed most are human in form...ie - homo sapiens

Add the Sentinels

Ugh...I'd rather not, thank you.