We've all done it... confess now.

[MADMANMIKE]

..I never did that. I always just adapted the existing characters with the rules. I do like that 2E makes this much easier, with less fudging necessary for the typical established character.

-Mike >8]

[Zenvis]

(breaking out the chant) Random roll, random roll, random roll...

Ok I'm as guilty as the next guy, but you have to admit there are so many variations of Spiderman, Hulk, Superman, Batman and all the others, useing HU2.

[Uncle Servo]

I'm not overly fond of creating conversions (even thinly-disguised ones) of well-established existing characters, mainly because doing so is trying to apply a structure (via RPG rules) to a character that didn't have a structure to begin with. Even with the plethora of 'tailor-made' powers in HU2, PU1, and PU2, it's pretty much impossible to create a truly 'accurate conversion' of the character (My biggest pet peeve in HU is with people who criticize the game because they can't get a 'good' copy of their favorite character).

The only exception to this has been when I have made HU conversions of the old Dagger Comics characters. I make this exception for two reasons -- one, because while I worked for the company I saw what little passed for backstory on the characters (there's more written up on your average HU NPC than most of what Dagger had to offer), and two, because that company went out of business in 1994.

On the other hand, if you take a particular concept already made famous (say a 'Boy Scout' flying brick, a wall-crawling acrobat, or a nocturnal nutcase with a fat wallet and a pointy-eared costume) and offer your own 'spin' on the character with a different name, that's okay by me. After all, you're not trying to re-create the original character but rather off your own interpretation on the concept.

As for myself, I've done it once that I can recall... it was 'Huntsman,' a gruff bounty hunter loosely based on Random from X-Factor.

[Borast]

First...
Welcome to the wider world of the Palladium Megavers boards C-man!

If you need help in these first faltering steps off the PFRPG board(s), feel free to ask and I'm sure someone can help you keep your feet!

Second...thinly veiled? Hell no...
My Klingons are Klingons.
My Sime are Sime.
My Gens are Gens.
My Kal-El is Kal-El.
My X-Men are X-Men.
Now if only I could figure out how to write-up Ultra-Boy...
Also, I have to do is figure out how to adapt the newest version of Kal-El's psionics to HU...(since Superman's lifting ability is telekinetic in the newest re-creation of the original)

[acreRake]

I think it's more fun to try to cram two existing heroes/people together and figure out how to combine their backgrounds with each other and my (what? 15 year old?) existing campaign world.

[Fat_Ninja]

I've never actually done even a thinly-veiled sort of conversion. I take generalities and come up with my own stuff from there, usually.

Weapons Masters never have bows.
Super Soldiers never have shields.
Magic Weapons never have hammers or swords.

That's just me, though. I think I actually do it just to be contrary.

[Uncle Servo]

I think it's more fun to try to cram two existing heroes/people together and figure out how to combine their backgrounds with each other and my (what? 15 year old?) existing campaign world.

Having enjoyed the brief stint of the Amalgam Comics universe -- including Dr. Strangefate, Nightcreeper, Hyena, Dark Claw, Super-Soldier, and my personal favorite Lobo The Duck -- I can easily see the appeal of doing that.

*starts pondering the possibilities of combining a web-slinger with a many-armed adversary*

[KillWatch]

never done it
don't like players who do

I've seen too many players get upset over the things their "base" could do but they could not, forgetting they are starting off at lvl 1 and those in the media have either been around for a good while or simply don't go by an experience system (foolish mortals)

I want my players to make their own stories and legends, their characters to have their own identities

I've had players or more like A player who rips off every cool thing he sees
Spawn, Earth Final Conflict, Wrelter Baki, etc. He never really comes up with anything original and can't really get into a random gen,... sigh

[acreRake]

I probably also should have been clear that as far as PLAYER Characters go they are all either random rolled or original.

The only one i can think of (and this is my self and all the players i've ever had) was a hero named Freedom who was a legacy hero basing his ID off of a mythical Captain Freedom from the forties. But thinking about it now his powers are so lame and random they must have been randomly rolled. (i think: Psychic Walk, EE: light, Xray vision and uh...alter physical body, or something... Oh yeah and he was a Mega hero! (i begged my GM for something to make this character cool).

And then because i was the one doing the rolling, I got "impervious to pressure" as my mega power

[Uncle Servo]

never done it
don't like players who do

I've seen too many players get upset over the things their "base" could do but they could not, forgetting they are starting off at lvl 1 and those in the media have either been around for a good while or simply don't go by an experience system (foolish mortals)

I want my players to make their own stories and legends, their characters to have their own identities

I've had players or more like A player who rips off every cool thing he sees
Spawn, Earth Final Conflict, Wrelter Baki, etc. He never really comes up with anything original and can't really get into a random gen,... sigh

I never had this problem with my HU players. They seemed to understand that the rules are not designed to take in the powerus maximus level of the comic book superstars and things are down in tone to help maintain game balance (Of course I have not run since the birth of PU2 )

I think they got that out of their system when we tried the Marvel and DC RPG systems way back in the mid-nineties.

Even when the HU characters are occasionally modeled after a known super, the players put enough of their own spin on it; I have to yet to have a player attempt a DIRECT knock off.

Emulating a hero is what the legacy is all about; give it a try sometime.

I've never had that problem either. None of my own players have ever tried to do a DIRECT copy of any established character, and for the exact reason you specified.

Incidentally, the players who DO get upset because "I can't get an accurate conversion of _______" and blame HU for it is one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to gaming. Even with the PU1 and PU2 books, HU isn't designed to give you an exact copy.

However, if you're inspired by a certain aspect of a character and want to take that ball and run with it, that's a different story.

In the Random-type character I played, I took the "gruff bounty hunter who can turn his arms into cannons" aspect and built my own character around it (well, I also PhotoShopped an illustration of Random to get my character too). This guy -- who I dubbed Huntsman -- was a medical research doctor set in the Nightbane world. When he lost his entire family to a 'bane attack, he subjected himself to an experimental process that would enable him to go toe-to-toe with these monsters and bring 'em to justice. The result had a similar flavor to the original, but he was a viable 3-D character in his own right and was in some ways a better overall effort than the original.

In another example, there is a character in my Loralton campaign that is obviously based off Nightcrawler -- a nimble blue-skinned mutant teleporter named Kirk Wagonner (as opposed to Kurt Wagner). However, Kirk also sports an energy whip and a darker, more agressive personality (and just a touch of overconfidence). The player (csyphrett) has done a good job of differentiating Kirk from the original and nobody has complained to me at all about his playing 'a Nightcrawler clone.'

On the other hand, he's already been mistakenly identified as the mutant who tried to assassinate the President (the game is set in the X-movies setting a couple of months after X-2), so that resemblance comes with its own set of pitfalls.


The fact is, there really aren't a lot of characters out there that someone can't make an argument for being 'based on' an established one. Every flying brick character will be compared to Superman, every speedster will be compared to Flash, every normal character who relies on gadgets will be compared to Batman, anyone who relies on guns will be compared to the Punisher, anyone with APS: Metal will be compared to Colossus, everyone with Underwater Abilities will be compared to Aquaman, every Magic Weapon character will be compared to Thor, and so on. Heck, I once had a character with APS: Metal and Flight: Winged, which I thought was an original combination -- only to have someone complain that I had just combined Colossus and Angel.

[Uncle Servo]

Really they didn't say archangel even though he is closer to bio armor and certain PU1 powers would be better that's odd. Change Aps to stone and you get a gargoyle(not the ones from the tv show). APS metal can be tough to be origional with my best were wrecking ball who had swingline and ColdSteel who had Aps:Ice working in conjunction along with Dark Karmic power. It's funny how people call origional concepts a cross between two characters especially when they have one power from each when each individual has several powers. How can a character be a cross between nightcrawler and someone when they have teleport but not enhanced reflexes and they look normal.

It's mental association, pure and simple. I agree that simply having Teleport does not mean you're a Nightcrawler clone, but that's how some people think. They look at a certain super ability and the character they're most familiar with who has that ability (or a related one) pops into his/her head... and the mental association is stronger for some powers/characters than with others. For instance, can you name off the top of your head a famous character with underwater abilities aside from Aquaman or the Sub-Mariner? It's not that easy is it?

[Daniel Stoker]

It's mental association, pure and simple. I agree that simply having Teleport does not mean you're a Nightcrawler clone, but that's how some people think. They look at a certain super ability and the character they're most familiar with who has that ability (or a related one) pops into his/her head... and the mental association is stronger for some powers/characters than with others. For instance, can you name off the top of your head a famous character with underwater abilities aside from Aquaman or the Sub-Mariner? It's not that easy is it?

Aqua-Lad and Namorita?



Daniel Stoker

[Uncle Servo]

Hang on a second... The Stingray I remember didn't have underwater abilities. He wore a suit of underwater power armor.

Not a bad list... though most of these are cheap points as they're associated with the original two. Can you name others that have nothing to do with them?

[csyphrett]

Dolphin, Sea Devils, Sealab 2020, Jabberjaw, The Fin, Hydroman.
CES

[Uncle Servo]

Dolphin, Sea Devils, Sealab 2020, Jabberjaw, The Fin, Hydroman.
CES

And csyphrett wins the 'Scraping The Bottom Of The Barrel' Award with his nomination of Jabberjaw!

*makes mental note to throw something heavy at csyphrett when nobody's looking...*

[csyphrett]

Those were the first I could think of. Thunder used to have an undersea division. There used to be an alantis superhero thing from Red Circle in one issue of BRC (Everyone had underwater abilitis and then had some type of additional power). I am sure a search will turn up a dozen others.
CES

[KillWatch]

Theuro I would have had your wolvie blead to death unable to call for help while gurgeling blood much less how about a pain check?

[KillWatch]

and sometimes that's a good thing

[Uncle Servo]

I'm just impressed that there are at least two people other than myself who even remember Jabberjaws.

They just don't make cartoons like they used to......

They Soitanlee do not! Nyuck nyuck nyuck!

Woo woo woo woo... no respect! Not even for a shark!

Then again, I'm one of those who have Looney Tunes collections on DVD along with the first season of Scooby-Doo, Where Are You? -- so you can guess Boomerang was a godsend when DirecTV made it available.

[Winged Panther]

I think my biggest rip off was actually of a group of humans.
I'm in the process now of creating a Marvel/X-men type world with mutants abound and what not, and I've taken The Friends of Humanity from the comics and transformed them into a mutant control/anti-mutant organization called the Children of True Blood.
Officially, the organization supports passive resistance and monitering of "the mutant threat", however they're not adverse to letting fanatics join they're ranks. Of course, if someone goes to far, they did it on their own and without the consent or support of the CTB.

[Uncle Servo]

But, when you really think about it, there are no new concepts. Everything can be attributed to a mainstream comic book character. I think that has been mentioned before as well. Even random characters can be dubbed a cheap ripoff as well. It's the nature of things.

This sounds vaguely familiar. Oh, I know why -- I made the same point a while back!

Thag's right though. There's not much new under the sun out there. What really counts is how good a spin one can put on a basic concept that we've most likely seen before. In comics (and comics-based RPGs), there's where the originality -- and the challenge -- truly lies.

[Dr. Doom III]

Nope never have.

I've only had two HU characters. El Jaguar a hero with multiple personality disorder and Gargantua a hero with the growth power. I based them on my imagination.

[ApocalypseZero]

All this talk makes me wonder if my Loralton character is original. (See Servo's post to reference Loralton)

Okay, here's the works.
Super Energy Expulsion: Energy (yellowish light)
Energy Expulsion: Energy Aura (explained later)
Mega Wings (Yellowish energy, Skeletal look similar to a bat.)
With the Experiment side effect of having to transform when using a power.....

Okay, so the guy goes from being normal to having an Energy Shell/Aura that appears in the form of a Demon (Horns, Tail, etc). The eyes have that misty effect, and the wings are summonable, from the shoulder blades.

Can anyone call this a rip off from somewhere?

I know the wings could be pulled from either Archangel or as far as Saikano or Evangelion (actually, the shape of them did come from Evangelion). But other than that, I know of no comic character that relates easily. Sure you could piece the thing together, but I'm looking at a 2 or 3 part mix max, if you have to mix at all.

I ask this simply because I've been out of the comic loop for some time now (Wolverine #100 was the last one I bought). So, I think I may have made an unique character, but maybe I have not?

As for conversions, I have done only two (Magneto and Wolverine) and have gotten them to within as close as they can be using the HU2 system (and barring the writers fluctuation of power). Surprisingly, they are not that hard to set the power, but the skills are what prove to be the wicked nasty thing about them. But, I keep these to myself. Since I too run a Marvel/HU game, in the same universe as Servo's Loralton.

[RockJock]

I've used lose conversions many times as a GM, especailly as bad guy npcs. First it helps when I get stuck for ideas. Two it helps my players to have a picture of who they are fighting. I may have a picture of the Blob from Marvel, but his powers could be super bounce, bio mass, and stretching. The picture helps visualize. On the other hand, he could be The Blob. I also tend to mix characters and backgrouds. For example, make a npc team of villians similar to the Savage Land Mutates in powers and even basic looks, but give them a background and equipment like the government sponsered Fredom Force, or the Thunderbirds trying to reform.

As far as PCs go, sure I've played an X-Man with slight variations. I ran a game a few years back with three people new to gaming, so they all rolled up a favorite comic book character name and all, but played from the characters origin. Everyone knew from the beginning that the character's were started from the beginning. Think about how different Jean Grey would have been without the Dark Pheonix Saga? Or Spiderman if Uncle Ben hadn't been killed?

If my player is not a beginner, and wants to be Wolverine I don't let him. I do let him play a character with a legacy connecting him to Wolverine, and build it into the history of our setting. Maybe he or she is an illegetimate child of said character, or copied his powers, or just idolized him. Whatever.

[Sir_Spirit]

Also, I have to do is figure out how to adapt the newest version of Kal-El's psionics to HU...(since Superman's lifting ability is telekinetic in the newest re-creation of the original)

Um, you mean his becoming an energy being with energy powers?
His powers are EM based not psychic, thoug I can see why you'd want to giv ehim psionics.
However just use Directed force for that version of him.
BtWThis particulor incarnation of his didn't last very long, he was split in to 2 different supermen, a passive blue superman and a agressive red superman.. They merged in order to save the world during one particular mission involving "millenium giants" and turned the sky purple for a few minutes before apparently fading away. In reality they had merged back into the non-energy superman.

[Sir_Spirit]

*starts pondering the possibilities of combining a web-slinger with a many-armed adversary*

This reminds me of a "What If?" comic, where where Flash Thomson gained spiderdudes powers instead of Peter Parker and became a villian by the name of "The Spider" and Peter turned to Doctor Octavius for help in stopping him, ParKer saved Octavius from the accident that would have turned him into Doc OCk and in return got his help in designing his own siut of arms and became "spider-dude" .
Hmm... ...Not trying to put you down but if you can find this comic it might help with some details...

Personally I like the idea of using existing characters as starting point for ideas and then changing them into someting thats my own.

I once used Obsidian(from DCU, son of Green Lantern in JSA)
to create a guy with a mix of psi and superpowers(all darkness related) .
Thoguh not nearly as powerful(he can't plunge the whole world into darkness) I found the idea of a hero with Darkness powers interesting, especially if you stayed away from making him a "dark hero"/vigilante/batguys but instead make his outlook closer to S-mans.

[Sentinel]

It's mental association, pure and simple. I agree that simply having Teleport does not mean you're a Nightcrawler clone, but that's how some people think. They look at a certain super ability and the character they're most familiar with who has that ability (or a related one) pops into his/her head... and the mental association is stronger for some powers/characters than with others. For instance, can you name off the top of your head a famous character with underwater abilities aside from Aquaman or the Sub-Mariner? It's not that easy is it?

Aqua-Lad and Namorita?

Undersea Agent from THUNDER Agents.
Neptune Perkins and Tsunami from All-Star Squadron/Young All-Stars.
The Man From Atlantis.(TV show)



Daniel Stoker

[Overlord Rikonius]

Also, I have to do is figure out how to adapt the newest version of Kal-El's psionics to HU...(since Superman's lifting ability is telekinetic in the newest re-creation of the original)

Um, you mean his becoming an energy being with energy powers?
His powers are EM based not psychic, thoug I can see why you'd want to giv ehim psionics.
However just use Directed force for that version of him.
BtWThis particulor incarnation of his didn't last very long, he was split in to 2 different supermen, a passive blue superman and a agressive red superman.. They merged in order to save the world during one particular mission involving "millenium giants" and turned the sky purple for a few minutes before apparently fading away. In reality they had merged back into the non-energy superman.

Actually, I think that there is a TK element to Supes' strength but it's limited to touch range, which is why his close has that tactile telekinesis ability.
btw, I forget where it was, but some RPG (maybe Champions) had a bit of flavor text about really super strong guys possibly having TK like that, as that's the only way to explain lifting a battleship without it falling apart.

[Uncle Servo]

*starts pondering the possibilities of combining a web-slinger with a many-armed adversary*

This reminds me of a "What If?" comic, where where Flash Thomson gained spiderdudes powers instead of Peter Parker and became a villian by the name of "The Spider" and Peter turned to Doctor Octavius for help in stopping him, ParKer saved Octavius from the accident that would have turned him into Doc OCk and in return got his help in designing his own siut of arms and became "spider-dude" .
Hmm... ...Not trying to put you down but if you can find this comic it might help with some details...

Hmm? Oh, that... I was thinking about something along the lines of a character with Tentacles, Adhesion, Radar, and probably either Lightning Reflexes or Extraordinary Physical Prowess.

[Sir_Spirit]

Actually, I think that there is a TK element to Supes' strength but it's limited to touch range, which is why his close has that tactile telekinesis ability.

That's interesting...

btw, I forget where it was, but some RPG (maybe Champions) had a bit of flavor text about really super strong guys possibly having TK like that, as that's the only way to explain lifting a battleship without it falling apart.

Actuallyit was Aberrant that had that.
Good game....

[Sentinel]

I often find myself going to both the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, and DC's Who's Who for ideas and specifics on how certain powers work, and whether or not a combination I have or a player has can be supported with pre-published examples.
For instance, when wondering if APS Electricity made a character intangible and thus immune to physical attacks, I went to first the Justice Machine comic, found the character Night Lightning, went next to the JM sourcebook, and upon comparison, didn't see where the character would be any more intagible than Blazer (also from JM). So, no, he wasn't immune to phyical attacks, BUT, the attacker was still going to take gobs of damage from hitting him.
Naturally, other people will see it differently, that's just how I handled things to keep some balance and keep the game moving.