Stayin' Alive

[The Beast]

I still want to find that "forest" text referred to earlier though, it sounds familiar...

Greetings and Salutations. I'm in bed and don't feel like getting up and going through all my books for exact page numbers and quotes.

The example I believe is in a Q&A about why someone would use S.D.C. weapons of M.D. is so much more powerful. They then discuss a hunter with a rabbit getting misted and a deer being blown in half. One of those shots (I forget which) then goes through a tree (knocking it over) and leaves a volleyball sized hole (if the example was a pistol, otherwise it was a basketball sized hole) through a bunch of bushes.

I think this is Sourcebook One (original, not revised) towards the front, but might be Conversion Book One (still original and toward the front, not revised). If such an example isn't in either, then I'll hunt it down tomorrow. Again, details are a little fuzzy as I'm going from memory. Hope that helps. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

That example was written with the old rules in mind, not the current rules.

[Axelmania]

The example I believe is in a Q&A about why someone would use S.D.C. weapons of M.D. is so much more powerful. They then discuss a hunter with a rabbit getting misted and a deer being blown in half. One of those shots (I forget which) then goes through a tree (knocking it over) and leaves a volleyball sized hole (if the example was a pistol, otherwise it was a basketball sized hole) through a bunch of bushes.

I think this is Sourcebook One (original, not revised) towards the front, but might be Conversion Book One (still original and toward the front, not revised). If such an example isn't in either, then I'll hunt it down tomorrow. Again, details are a little fuzzy as I'm going from memory. Hope that helps. Farewell and safe journeys for now.[/justify]

Yep, it's on page 6, on the left column, in the first example. Pretty good memory!

The animal is torn in half by the blast and the medium size tree behind it is also split in half and falls over toward the character (it barely misses him).
Behind the tree is a volleyball size swath cut through the bushes, some 50 yards long.

Kinda wondering where this volley/basket dichotomy originates. Of course it was "the bushes" not "bunch of bushes", minor point though.

The second example also mentions:

Each shot misses, but punches basketball size holes through the walls and into the street where a fleeing patron is blasted in half.
[/quote]

The third example (right column) then says:

The mega-damage blasts miss the creature and punch big holes into the ceiling/floor above them and through the next floor to the roof!

Wall>Patron and Floor>Floor seem like your standard "destroys only the thing behind it" though, so examples 2 and 3 aren't really contradictory.

The only real problem is the 50-yard bush-swath.

I suppose in that instance, the 150ft length of bush could've functioned as a single object?

Also an interesting bit about how there is a 1-mile radius noise, presumably from the tree falling.

The original Sourcebook 1 does indeed have it. Revised, however, does not.

Well yeah, although the entire "Answers to Questions" sections was removed in Revised so I'm not sure if we should read into that.

Even if it does not over penetrate hunting SDC critters with an MDC weapon basically results in a pile of bloody mist and charred meat. The amount of usable stuff you would have remaining would be minimal. Also a lot of cities MDC weapons are straight banned but SDC weapons are okay because the cops are immune to it.

Oddly enough, the SB example, despite saying the deer was torn in half, does say "At least the character has enough of the deer left to provide food for several days". Of course that's in regard to a 2MD blast, 3+ might mean much less.

[eliakon]

@Eliakon: p. 358 of RUE, which as Axelmania just pointed out I had already cited and quoted, days ago. I'd also point out that you had quoted the post in which I cited it in one of your replies!

@Axelmania: Great find on how "structure" has been used in reference to plants and, specifically, a blade of grass!

Oh that trash? I thought you had an actual rule.
Reading comprehension is fundamental as is not cherry picking.
AKA read the start of the section
"The following guidelines are provided..."
Sorry, those are guidelines. Not rules, guidelines.
They can not, and do not trump any other published rules.
So nice try?

[dreicunan]

@Eliakon: p. 358 of RUE, which as Axelmania just pointed out I had already cited and quoted, days ago. I'd also point out that you had quoted the post in which I cited it in one of your replies!

@Axelmania: Great find on how "structure" has been used in reference to plants and, specifically, a blade of grass!

Oh that trash? I thought you had an actual rule.
Reading comprehension is fundamental as is not cherry picking.
AKA read the start of the section
"The following guidelines are provided..."
Sorry, those are guidelines. Not rules, guidelines.
They can not, and do not trump any other published rules.
So nice try?

I agree that reading comprehension and not cherry picking is fundamental. So let's avoid cherry-picking and finish that quote from the start of the section: "The following guidelines are provided to give player characters a chance, however slight, to survive a Mega-Damage (M.D) energy blast that would normally kill or vaporize the character." Those guidelines about surviving mega-damage attacks are then given on page 359. We know this because it is right in the big, bolded, subtitle to the section "Beating the odds" at the top of page 359.

The information about how MD weapons on page 358 work is not part of the optional guidelines. It is just what it says that it is, information about how MD weapons work, included due to popular demand.

In the future, before attempting to insult someone's reading comprehension and accuse them of cherry-picking, you may wish to first turn the page and/or finish reading the sentence that you partially quoting.

[Axelmania]

"The following guidelines are provided to give player characters a chance, however slight, to survive a Mega-Damage (M.D) energy blast that would normally kill or vaporize the character." Those guidelines about surviving mega-damage attacks are then given on page 359. We know this because it is right in the big, bolded, subtitle to the section "Beating the odds" at the top of page 359.

The information about how MD weapons on page 358 work is not part of the optional guidelines. It is just what it says that it is, information about how MD weapons work, included due to popular demand.

Related to this is the TOC on RUE6 which lists as part of the bolded "Mega-Damage & MDC" section running from 355 until 360 (when Ranged Combat starts):

Damage While Inside M.D.C. Armor (optional) 355
Mega-Damage technology 356
How M.D. Weapons Work 358
Beating the Odds 359

Kinda weird how there's an "optional" parenthesized next to the whole taking SDC from falls/explosions... (hadn't noticed that applied to the upper-left of 356 I guess because the "optional" is on the lower-right of 355 before the crunch) but not parenthesized next to "Beating the Odds", even though there's plenty of room to print it there...

The "stops upon hitting their target" v "stops upon hitting what is behind" thing isn't actually about "Surviving Mega-Damage Attacks" since if you're not even hit, you're not even attacked.

[eliakon]

@Eliakon: p. 358 of RUE, which as Axelmania just pointed out I had already cited and quoted, days ago. I'd also point out that you had quoted the post in which I cited it in one of your replies!

@Axelmania: Great find on how "structure" has been used in reference to plants and, specifically, a blade of grass!

Oh that trash? I thought you had an actual rule.
Reading comprehension is fundamental as is not cherry picking.
AKA read the start of the section
"The following guidelines are provided..."
Sorry, those are guidelines. Not rules, guidelines.
They can not, and do not trump any other published rules.
So nice try?

I agree that reading comprehension and not cherry picking is fundamental. So let's avoid cherry-picking and finish that quote from the start of the section: "The following guidelines are provided to give player characters a chance, however slight, to survive a Mega-Damage (M.D) energy blast that would normally kill or vaporize the character." Those guidelines about surviving mega-damage attacks are then given on page 359. We know this because it is right in the big, bolded, subtitle to the section "Beating the odds" at the top of page 359.

The information about how MD weapons on page 358 work is not part of the optional guidelines. It is just what it says that it is, information about how MD weapons work, included due to popular demand.

In the future, before attempting to insult someone's reading comprehension and accuse them of cherry-picking, you may wish to first turn the page and/or finish reading the sentence that you partially quoting.

Try again.
The guidelines cover the entire section.
This pretty explicit because the entire section is 'surviving Mega-Damage Attacks' (largest type)
Then you get the sub sections of that section, these are:
1) Surviving Mega-Damage Attacks
2) How M.D. Weapons Work
3) Beating the Odds

So yeah... your using a guideline to try and argue a rule.
So again.
Nice try... but no.

[Curbludgeon]

I find it a mistake to assume the phrase "the following guidelines" on 358 must necessarily mean immediately following guidelines. For all their flaws the editors were pretty consistent about including when something is optional or a guideline, often via italics in addition to specific wording. This is not done for other words used to refer to rules, such as the use of "information" in the right-hand column. The guidelines, according to 358 left-hand column, are provided to allow a chance to survive a MD energy-induced trauma via treatment. That this is reiterated at the beginning of the Beating the Odds heading, along with restating that these are the optional guidelines, most reasonably suggests that 359 is the beginning of the optional guidelines alluded to on 358. That the respective length of the entries How MD Weapons Work and Beating the Odds would not allow an easy flow via a low-effort layout if reversed lends this argument a sense of parsimony.

[dreicunan]

@Eliakon: p. 358 of RUE, which as Axelmania just pointed out I had already cited and quoted, days ago. I'd also point out that you had quoted the post in which I cited it in one of your replies!

@Axelmania: Great find on how "structure" has been used in reference to plants and, specifically, a blade of grass!

Oh that trash? I thought you had an actual rule.
Reading comprehension is fundamental as is not cherry picking.
AKA read the start of the section
"The following guidelines are provided..."
Sorry, those are guidelines. Not rules, guidelines.
They can not, and do not trump any other published rules.
So nice try?

I agree that reading comprehension and not cherry picking is fundamental. So let's avoid cherry-picking and finish that quote from the start of the section: "The following guidelines are provided to give player characters a chance, however slight, to survive a Mega-Damage (M.D) energy blast that would normally kill or vaporize the character." Those guidelines about surviving mega-damage attacks are then given on page 359. We know this because it is right in the big, bolded, subtitle to the section "Beating the odds" at the top of page 359.

The information about how MD weapons on page 358 work is not part of the optional guidelines. It is just what it says that it is, information about how MD weapons work, included due to popular demand.

In the future, before attempting to insult someone's reading comprehension and accuse them of cherry-picking, you may wish to first turn the page and/or finish reading the sentence that you partially quoting.

Try again.
The guidelines cover the entire section.
This pretty explicit because the entire section is 'surviving Mega-Damage Attacks' (largest type)
Then you get the sub sections of that section, these are:
1) Surviving Mega-Damage Attacks
2) How M.D. Weapons Work
3) Beating the Odds

So yeah... your using a guideline to try and argue a rule.
So again.
Nice try... but no.

Are perception rolls psychic combat? Either they are, or your logic about the heading for an entire section being determinative is flawed, and paying attention to the rest of the text as well is required (as is applying the reading comprehension which we agree is fundamental).

Perception rolls, of course, are not psychic combat.

[Axelmania]

The guidelines cover the entire section.
This pretty explicit because the entire section is 'surviving Mega-Damage Attacks' (largest type)
Then you get the sub sections of that section, these are:
1) Surviving Mega-Damage Attacks
2) How M.D. Weapons Work
3) Beating the Odds

If SMDA is actually a section then why doesn't it appear in the table of contents?

Being a small-font thing appearing after it doesn't mean it's a subsection.

"How MD Weapons Work" is clearly one of those "we threw in a helpful box because we had nowhere else to put it"

Another example of that would be RUE 364's "Surviving an Aircraft Landing" which despite RUE362's giant "MISSILE COMBAT" letters, is not a subsection of it.

Are perception rolls psychic combat? Either they are, or your logic about the heading for an entire section being determinative is flawed, and paying attention to the rest of the text as well is required (as is applying the reading comprehension which we agree is fundamental).

Perception rolls, of course, are not psychic combat.

RUE 366 v RUE 367 is also an excellent example.

Although you forgot: this also means Horror Factor is part of Psychic Combat!

[Thom001]

To reply to the original topic and question asked. We stay alive by mainly using guerilla warfare styles of attack when possible. We also distractions (magical,technological, or otherwise), and bright flashes when possible. Lastly, we never try to bite off more than we can chew.


As far as MDC equipment and being a SDC creatures our GM usually takes into account that not everyone has MD weapons, and that one cannot be wearing MDC armor all the time. People sweat, bathe etc and this means the armor has to be cleaned and maintained (though I do want to point out this part is more of a house rule to keep a balance and therefore it may not apply to other groups games).


We also have a house rule that if you hit an md object with a heavy enough sdc object it will move or knock over the md thing but not necessarily damage it, but could damage sdc occupants inside (if applicable). Again this is. house rule and so take it with a grain of salt



As far as running out of ammo or needing repairs or running out of money we utilize previously mentioned resources. We loot the bodies of the dead and unconscious we fought, we dont do missions for free, we keep whatever we find along the way (just like as if we were in palladium fantasy), we try to establish relationships with black market dealers (which can lead to lines of credit, jobs done in leau of payment, etc.). One dead or unconscious soldier is a mostly whole suit of armor, at least one gun, maybe a blade, extra clips, their clothing underneath, their vehicle, their rations/supplies etc. If we fight a magic user we take any and all of their mystic toys and re sell them. If we are fighting a creature we try to take it with us to sell to a magic user (like an alchemist) or depending on what kind of creature it was maybe we eat it.


This brings me to your response about your house rule. We dont have that rule, that is a problem your group will encounter because of your house rule. Although I would argue with my GM if that rule existed in my group that this makes the armor and weapons MORE valuable, but only to more scientific dealers. They will want that tech to reverse engineer it. This way once they have they can hack CS gear. But more importantly that black market dealer is now the ONLY one on your Rifts earth that can sell repurposed CS gear and if coupled with a body fixer/cyber doc can implant this armor to their customers. That's a whole adventure idea by itself.



If this idea is shot down or not used the armor/weapons can still be scavenged, disassembled and reused by a crafty mechanic or hacker. This still makes the armor and weapons sellabe.


That's just my thoughts anyway.

[StormSeeker]

I've recently become a big fan of using flash or Wilk's blinder grenades, followed by smoke. Go into thermovsion. Pop a flare just behind you and off to the side if the enemy also has thermograohic.