Splugorth High Lords - supernatural beings or no?

[Axelmania]

From WB2 (Atlantis)
*pg 44 "Supernatural strength drawn from the Splugorth." + "mega-damage creatures due to their link with the Splugorth"
*pg 45 "they are considered to be supernatural beings"

45 is under the Conservator though, who has been modified by bio-wizardry. I thought I remembered that all High Lords were supernatural but if so I can't remember a book/page supporting that assumption.

What led me to question this was page 54 of Juicer Uprising:

Splugorth High Lords (not Conservators, because they have already been augmented via bio-wizardry) can also receive this treatment, but rarely do so.
Shapeshifters, major or master psychics, practitioners of magic, creatures of magic and supernatural beings cannot undergo this treatment.

Does anyone remember anyplace where High Lords in general were referred to as being supernatural beings, rather than just the modified (Conservator) ones? I thought maybe I remembered seeing it somewhere which would contradict JU, but maybe not...

High Lords are considered major psionics and they all seem to be practitioners of magic, so it already seems like there is a double contradiction...

It also says Simvan can become Maxi-Killers and they seemed higher than minor psionics to me, although I haven't actually noticed a minor/major/master designation on SB1p111/DB30p189

Are they merely MDC creatures with supernatural strength who are non-supernatural?

[Library Ogre]

I would say yes.

[ShadowLogan]

The Maxi-killer in JU, the Hawrk-duhk D-bee is a major psychic and it can still select the class. This indicates that the restrictions for the class concerning shapeshifting, magic, psionic, CoM/SN may have exceptions for the Hawrk-duhk and High Lord since they are specifically mentioned and noted. It could also indicate the responsible symbiote has been programmed/modified to accept High Lords (creating an alternate Conservator type IMHO) and Hawrk-duhk (???) for some reason, granting them exceptions but not others.

Both the High Lord and Conservator are both PPE vampires (pg45 different sections), though only the Conservator specifically mentions SN aspect.

[Axelmania]

I don't think High Lords or Hawrk species are shapeshifters, so mostly speaking to the psionics / practitioners of magic and perhaps supernatural.

I don't know if being a PPE vampire matters, since Psi-Stalkers and Psi-Slayers aren't supernatural.

Are the Hawrk species ever called supernatural?

Mark Hall just wondering if you recalled a quote somewhere about supernatural non-conservator high lords? Been mentioned so often I could've seen it and not remembered where...

[Library Ogre]

Are they merely MDC creatures with supernatural strength who are non-supernatural?

Sorry, that was HORRIBLY unclear of me. This is what I was saying yes to... so far as I know, they're a relatively mortal species. They've been heavily modified over the centuries of servitude, so what they originally looked like is unclear, but I don't see any sign that they are "supernatural" being as Palladium uses it.

[ShadowLogan]

No Hawrk species and High Lords are not shape shifters, but they both meet the major psychic and magic user requirement for being disqualified to be Maxi-Killers. That to me suggests that these two species are an exception to the rule since they meet at least one of the requirements for being disqualified. It doesn't automatically give them status with the other disqualifying requirements either.

I agree that being a PPE vampire does not automatically equate one to being SN, and text even mentions that w/o the Link the High Lords would be SDC creatures. The feature is shared by both stock and modified High Lords though. Here is a question that might clear up your issue at the same time: When does a Bio-Borg (or Bio-Wizard modification) result in a SN being?

I am looking at WB2, and I don't see an answer about the number of implants (maybe I missed it, or its in BoM/WB21), and cross referencing the Bio-Borg implants the Conservator receives (per description) none automatically grant SN status. So if SN status for Bio-Borgs comes from specific implants and not number of implants, then the SN nature of the base line Conservator also applies to the High Lord.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

They get their MDC and Supernatural attributes from their link with the Splugorth. IMO, they are not, themselves, supernatural...

However, since they are linked to the Splugorth, if a Spligorth is considered supernatural, a High Lord empowered by them would be considered so as well. One who is not empowered (though we see no examples) would not be.

[eliakon]

I am not sure that even a link would make a person supernatural.
Witches for example are not Supernatural beings, even though they get their powers from a link with a being that is.
Same with Warlocks, Priests, Elemental Fusionists, et multiple cetera.

And we can demonstrate that being a PPE vampire does not make you supernatural since Psi-Stalkers and Psi-Slayers are PPE vampires.

[Axelmania]

I guess a better question might be, assuming High Lords aren't supernatural... which bio-wizard modification of the Conservator makes them so?

[ShadowLogan]

I guess a better question might be, assuming High Lords aren't supernatural... which bio-wizard modification of the Conservator makes them so?

None of the listed Bio-Wizard modifications mention becoming a Supernatural being. If the listed Bio-Wizard modifications are responsible, then it is in terms of numbers and not specifics (which would have to come post WB2 as I don't see any such indication in WB2 and I reviewed the Bio-Borg RCC w/nothing mentioned in this way).

[Nekira Sudacne]

My reading has always been that the race is by default mortal and SDC, but a combination of their witch-like bond to the Splurgorth (Which seems somewhat distinct to regular witches but shares other similarities) and Bio-Wizard transformation likely transform them into lesser supernatural beings by the time you'd meet them.

[eliakon]

I guess a better question might be, assuming High Lords aren't supernatural... which bio-wizard modification of the Conservator makes them so?

That one that turns them supernatural
Seriously there is plenty of room for "and other modifications as needed to make this all work" which allows for some unspecified modification or process turning them supernatural.