The Awkward Situation of a Power Armor Pilot

[Falsor Wing]

*edit* I wanted to pop in and explain that they aren't without a transport because they don't want one and apparently ended up writing a short story, so yea read it and stuff.


While working on a Rifts bit of fiction I've come accross a bit of a quandry.

Seamus Aran, power armored soldier extraordinaire, owns a Samson mk-III, a Cougar, and a Coyote (and a really impressive arsenal of guns of all shapes and sizes) and travels with a robo-pegasus riding cyber-knight. Unfortunately, neither of the two own any other manner of vehicle. How does Seamus haul his extra power armor and assorted other gear around?

It seems like if a Coyote can be worn under a jumpsuit, it should be possible to wear one inside a Samson, but for cheese reasons I suspect theres a rule somewhere that says you can't do that. Do any of yall know?

Also how much can a Samson carry? I figure if Seamus rigged up a Samson-scale equipment harness/backpack like infantry grunts use to carry around their 100 pounds of equipment it ought to be able to carry the cougar etc but I'm not sure. Am I the only person whose had this issue?

[flatline]

Well, I think the assumption that PA pilots are typically parts of units that have larger vehicles for carrying the unit's equipment.

If you're an independent, then you have to solve the problem some other way. Do you have a mechanic who travels with you? If so, perhaps his vehicle can carry your spare suits.

[Bill]

Add a headhunter with a Big Boss ATV to the story. Plenty of room in the back for the other suits. Or you could base your heroes in a town or city.

[drewkitty ~..~]

While working on a Rifts bit of fiction I've come accross a bit of a quandry.

Seamus Aran, power armored soldier extraordinaire, owns a Samson mk-III, a Cougar, and a Coyote (and a really impressive arsenal of guns of all shapes and sizes) and travels with a robo-pegasus riding cyber-knight. Unfortunately, neither of the two own any other manner of vehicle. How does Seamus haul his extra power armor and assorted other gear around?
...snip

MINIONS!!!!!
Or get another team member with something that can hall it around
Or just have the credits the 2nd PA would of cost so the 2nd PA can be bought when the 1st one has been trashed.

[Alrik Vas]

If you want to be a traveling type, sell one suit and keep the money for repairs.

[eliakon]

If its a story....
Shenanigans happened. You got a hold of a scroll of dimensional envelope and cast it on a tent. Now for a good while that tent has a door that only you and a select few can detect that leads to a closet sized pocket dimension where you can stash a spare suit and 'stuff'

Its rare yes....but it can be justified in several ways (the easiest is that you saved a temporal wizards life/did a favor, and he/she/it/they/other gave you the scroll)

[jaymz]

Add a headhunter with a Big Boss ATV to the story. Plenty of room in the back for the other suits. Or you could base your heroes in a town or city.

I think you might want to use a Mountaineer....not a Big Boss....

[kaid]

While working on a Rifts bit of fiction I've come accross a bit of a quandry.

Seamus Aran, power armored soldier extraordinaire, owns a Samson mk-III, a Cougar, and a Coyote (and a really impressive arsenal of guns of all shapes and sizes) and travels with a robo-pegasus riding cyber-knight. Unfortunately, neither of the two own any other manner of vehicle. How does Seamus haul his extra power armor and assorted other gear around?

It seems like if a Coyote can be worn under a jumpsuit, it should be possible to wear one inside a Samson, but for cheese reasons I suspect theres a rule somewhere that says you can't do that. Do any of yall know?

Also how much can a Samson carry? I figure if Seamus rigged up a Samson-scale equipment harness/backpack like infantry grunts use to carry around their 100 pounds of equipment it ought to be able to carry the cougar etc but I'm not sure. Am I the only person whose had this issue?

Generally this would either mean having a vehicle to lug the extra around or you have the other in secure storage at a city/town/hide out that you frequent. You can't wear power armor over other power armor although for the ligher power armor you can use that inside some robot vehicles that are scaled up enough to allow it.


Something similar to this happens A LOT in lemurian campaigns a lot of the starting classes have access to a TON of random equipment but can only lug so much around with them.

[jaymz]

A party should always travel with what I call the base of operations robot....the Behemoth. Even better, the Super Behemoth (NG-1) Room to store your stuff, sleep and eat.

[eliakon]

I think the point is trying to find a way to have a couple Power Armor Pilots do their thing with OUT having to have some outside vehicles, or additional people, or stuff like that.....

[Nightmask]

I think the point is trying to find a way to have a couple Power Armor Pilots do their thing with OUT having to have some outside vehicles, or additional people, or stuff like that.....

Unfortunately sometimes you just can't make that happen, or what you need to make that happens reaches too far for what you think is an acceptable break from reality or plausible.

[eliakon]

A second option is if they operate in a locale they can cache some of the supplies in various locations. Having arms caches all over the place is a time honored tradition and I don't see any reason you couldn't add a Power Armor to the inventory here or there.

[Mack]

There's always the "get of jail free card" known as a dimensional pocket... but that's kinda cheating.

[flatline]

There's always the "get of jail free card" known as a dimensional pocket... but that's kinda cheating.

It's only cheating if you don't have a temporal practitioner in your party. How hard is it to add one to a story?

[Mack]

There's always the "get of jail free card" known as a dimensional pocket... but that's kinda cheating.

It's only cheating if you don't have a temporal practitioner in your party. How hard is it to add one to a story?

If he didn't want to add a Headhunter / Minion, I figure a rare mage is out as well.

[Nightmask]

There's always the "get of jail free card" known as a dimensional pocket... but that's kinda cheating.

It's only cheating if you don't have a temporal practitioner in your party. How hard is it to add one to a story?

If he didn't want to add a Headhunter / Minion, I figure a rare mage is out as well.

Could go the tech route, some device that creates a dimensional storage area. Not like there isn't that example in Heroes Unlimited of a guy who unknowingly has a device implanted in him that lets him create one. Or just bite the bullet and have the one character have one super-power of Dimensional Room and nothing else.

[ShadowLogan]

While working on a Rifts bit of fiction I've come accross a bit of a quandry.

Seamus Aran, power armored soldier extraordinaire, owns a Samson mk-III, a Cougar, and a Coyote (and a really impressive arsenal of guns of all shapes and sizes) and travels with a robo-pegasus riding cyber-knight. Unfortunately, neither of the two own any other manner of vehicle. How does Seamus haul his extra power armor and assorted other gear around?

It seems like if a Coyote can be worn under a jumpsuit, it should be possible to wear one inside a Samson, but for cheese reasons I suspect theres a rule somewhere that says you can't do that. Do any of yall know?

Also how much can a Samson carry? I figure if Seamus rigged up a Samson-scale equipment harness/backpack like infantry grunts use to carry around their 100 pounds of equipment it ought to be able to carry the cougar etc but I'm not sure. Am I the only person whose had this issue?

Carry weight is figured the same for people, take the PS (in this case likely robotic) and multiply it according per the rules on pg286 of RUE. If a PS score is lacking i'd use a generic score one commonly sees in PA of similar types (either a "family relative" or a more common score). Note that the resulting scores can seem a bit wacky in some cases, but should not be considered to influence if they can lift/push themselves up.

As for what the character can do, others have already covered that so I won't repeat there, but I will offer the following additional suggestions that I don't think where made yet. You could also make a chariot to haul stuff around in for the flying steed, or something you pull with the Power Armor. Another option to put in a remote control system in the PA so they function as 'bots.

Personally I would not allow a PA to be use to carry another PA for transport as you suggest, the PA is literally to big and bulky to carry as if on a backpack IMHO. I can see doing that with body armor, but not PA. You could carry one "fire fighter rescue" style, but attaching it to the back of another PA seems like it would get in the way of arm/leg movement.

[Gamer]

While working on a Rifts bit of fiction I've come accross a bit of a quandry.

Seamus Aran, power armored soldier extraordinaire, owns a Samson mk-III, a Cougar, and a Coyote (and a really impressive arsenal of guns of all shapes and sizes) and travels with a robo-pegasus riding cyber-knight. Unfortunately, neither of the two own any other manner of vehicle. How does Seamus haul his extra power armor and assorted other gear around?

It seems like if a Coyote can be worn under a jumpsuit, it should be possible to wear one inside a Samson, but for cheese reasons I suspect theres a rule somewhere that says you can't do that. Do any of yall know?

Also how much can a Samson carry? I figure if Seamus rigged up a Samson-scale equipment harness/backpack like infantry grunts use to carry around their 100 pounds of equipment it ought to be able to carry the cougar etc but I'm not sure. Am I the only person whose had this issue?

Carry weight is figured the same for people, take the PS (in this case likely robotic) and multiply it according per the rules on pg286 of RUE. If a PS score is lacking i'd use a generic score one commonly sees in PA of similar types (either a "family relative" or a more common score). Note that the resulting scores can seem a bit wacky in some cases, but should not be considered to influence if they can lift/push themselves up.

As for what the character can do, others have already covered that so I won't repeat there, but I will offer the following additional suggestions that I don't think where made yet. You could also make a chariot to haul stuff around in for the flying steed, or something you pull with the Power Armor. Another option to put in a remote control system in the PA so they function as 'bots.

Personally I would not allow a PA to be use to carry another PA for transport as you suggest, the PA is literally to big and bulky to carry as if on a backpack IMHO. I can see doing that with body armor, but not PA. You could carry one "fire fighter rescue" style, but attaching it to the back of another PA seems like it would get in the way of arm/leg movement.

Which means the Coyote is the power armor he could carry (it would take up most to all of the space in any pack system used) but would agree the cougar isn't going to be carried by the Samson mk3 very far.

The sheer amount of 'stuff' he has means he either has a static base or a mobile base, they are not carrying all that stuff plus food, water, clothes (etc) without another mode of transport.
The only other way that stuff is going anywhere is if they make some sort of trailer for the Robo-pegasus to go from place to place with.

[jaymz]

You could just let the one guy replace one of the three PA's with a vehicle.

[rem1093]

Nanites. they are implanted into the body and are designed to build the pre-programmed armors around the pilot. At least thats how my basic armor works.

[flatline]

There's always the "get of jail free card" known as a dimensional pocket... but that's kinda cheating.

It's only cheating if you don't have a temporal practitioner in your party. How hard is it to add one to a story?

If he didn't want to add a Headhunter / Minion, I figure a rare mage is out as well.

I suppose that's true. However, dentists are rare (less than 0.1% of the American population), yet I have no trouble finding one when my tooth hurts. Perhaps the temporal wizard doesn't have to travel with the PA pilot for the pilot to make use of the temporal wizard's services.

[Nekira Sudacne]

A party should always travel with what I call the base of operations robot....the Behemoth. Even better, the Super Behemoth (NG-1) Room to store your stuff, sleep and eat.

I always felt the behemoth is way too big a target. it's huge, worth millions in scrap AND lightly armed? Too big to hide, too weak to defend itself, and far, far too valuble for people to not try to take it intact or as scrap. Every high-tech bandit and raider along the route is going to be gunning for you.

The Behemoth explorer has never been much more than a very expensive deathtrap, in my view.

[Rallan]

Well, I think the assumption that PA pilots are typically parts of units that have larger vehicles for carrying the unit's equipment.

If you're an independent, then you have to solve the problem some other way. Do you have a mechanic who travels with you? If so, perhaps his vehicle can carry your spare suits.

Pretty much this. Power armor's a piece of military hardware that's designed to be sent out on missions to wreck faces, not an all purpose general transportation doohickey that's intended to be used in the field indefinitely.

This is kinda like being surprised to find out that it's not convenient or practical for tank crews to take their Abrams on a summer holiday road trip or hop in it to duck down to the shops for some bread and milk. That just ain't what it's designed for.

[eliakon]

Well, I think the assumption that PA pilots are typically parts of units that have larger vehicles for carrying the unit's equipment.

If you're an independent, then you have to solve the problem some other way. Do you have a mechanic who travels with you? If so, perhaps his vehicle can carry your spare suits.

Pretty much this. Power armor's a piece of military hardware that's designed to be sent out on missions to wreck faces, not an all purpose general transportation doohickey that's intended to be used in the field indefinitely.

This is kinda like being surprised to find out that it's not convenient or practical for tank crews to take their Abrams on a summer holiday road trip or hop in it to duck down to the shops for some bread and milk. That just ain't what it's designed for.

Which might be true in real life but in the world of Palladium its pretty explicitly not that way.
Heck the GB is designed to be a wandering samurai type.....meaning the game was built around the trope of wandering power armor warriors.

[flatline]

Well, I think the assumption that PA pilots are typically parts of units that have larger vehicles for carrying the unit's equipment.

If you're an independent, then you have to solve the problem some other way. Do you have a mechanic who travels with you? If so, perhaps his vehicle can carry your spare suits.

Pretty much this. Power armor's a piece of military hardware that's designed to be sent out on missions to wreck faces, not an all purpose general transportation doohickey that's intended to be used in the field indefinitely.

This is kinda like being surprised to find out that it's not convenient or practical for tank crews to take their Abrams on a summer holiday road trip or hop in it to duck down to the shops for some bread and milk. That just ain't what it's designed for.

Which might be true in real life but in the world of Palladium its pretty explicitly not that way.
Heck the GB is designed to be a wandering samurai type.....meaning the game was built around the trope of wandering power armor warriors.

When a pilot has a single suit, sure, but if the OP is going to write a story, he's going to have to find some way to explain how one pilot might reasonably do that with three suits.

[eliakon]

Well, I think the assumption that PA pilots are typically parts of units that have larger vehicles for carrying the unit's equipment.

If you're an independent, then you have to solve the problem some other way. Do you have a mechanic who travels with you? If so, perhaps his vehicle can carry your spare suits.

Pretty much this. Power armor's a piece of military hardware that's designed to be sent out on missions to wreck faces, not an all purpose general transportation doohickey that's intended to be used in the field indefinitely.

This is kinda like being surprised to find out that it's not convenient or practical for tank crews to take their Abrams on a summer holiday road trip or hop in it to duck down to the shops for some bread and milk. That just ain't what it's designed for.

Which might be true in real life but in the world of Palladium its pretty explicitly not that way.
Heck the GB is designed to be a wandering samurai type.....meaning the game was built around the trope of wandering power armor warriors.

When a pilot has a single suit, sure, but if the OP is going to write a story, he's going to have to find some way to explain how one pilot might reasonably do that with three suits.

So Perhaps the discussion should be more on how do actually do that since that was the original question in the first place and less on how the idea of a wandering power armor is foolish and wrong?
Don't get me wrong I am sure that a thread on the merits of evaluating if something like the wandering Glitter Boy is viable or not would be interesting....but this is not that thread.

I really don't see why people feel compelled to post in a thread that asks a question with answers that start with "you are playing wrong so let me correct you so that you can ask the right question" and not "In the case you are describing a viable answer might be"

[drewkitty ~..~]

There's always the "get of jail free card" known as a dimensional pocket... but that's kinda cheating.

It's only cheating if you don't have a temporal practitioner in your party. How hard is it to add one to a story?

Yep, much easier to add a Mystic Study from HU with the DP spell then a Temporal-mage.

GM "You find a (wo)man on the road asleep (KO'ed) surrounded by what looks like the contents of a office or library around them."
--------
However, what you'd really want is the D-Envelope spell effect. The spell concept for the DE spell is much bigger then the D-Pocket spell.

[Alrik Vas]

So...with envelope and time slip or something, could you store a PA and using time slip appear to bust out the armor and instantly be suited up?

Say they were both on the same TW device and created that dual effect.

[drewkitty ~..~]

So...with envelope and time slip or something, could you store a PA and using time slip appear to bust out the armor and instantly be suited up?

Say they were both on the same TW device and created that dual effect.

The Time Slip part would look much like my The White Rabbit's Watch.

Spoiler:

The White Rabbit's Watch

No -one know where this magic pocket watch came from nor who made it. The Last person the be know in possession of this item was the mage thief only known as "The White Rabbit". This mysterious personage is known to operate in Collation territory but has recently taken to doing jobs Colorado Baronies. Some theories about this item is that it teleports the user to a known location from where the user is. Others suggest that it hypnotizes everyone to make the user disappear.
The one best source of information about this item, it comes from an old clocksmith in the old quarter of Lazlo. An old geezer who insists on being called "The Time Keeper". The Geezer has boasted that he once had the White Rabbit come to him to fix a part of the watch. The Time Keeper swears up and down that It is a Techno Wizard device. But, after his glass has been filled many times, he will also say that no Techno Wizardry could of made parts of the watch. But then again, he also claims he traveled through time when he was younger when he has many drinks.

Gm section
The watch is three distinct parts, a Watch, a TW Time Stopper, and a magic PPE recharger.

The Watch is a normal clock mechanism, with a 3 year life battery. Keeps time to within +/- one second per year. The Lid is decorated with an image of a standing rabbit with a clock in it's hand. while other parts are decorated with a caterpillar, a girl in a dress & apron, and a faded cat with a big smile. The housing is made out of copper and bronze.

TW Time Stopper:
This device gives the magi user up to 5 min. of extra time using sequential time slip spells. The device was built with a 300 PPE payload, so the maximum time able to be gained is 9 min.
Device Level: 1
Spell Chain: Time Slip(20), Contingency (12)
PPE Construction Cost: 77
Construction Time: 7.68 hours
Construction Cost: 229,528 uc
Activation Cost: 4 PPE
Physical requirements: 12.5 carats of Quartz, and 15 carats of diamonds, and a watch housing.

The Magic Recharger
This part of the watch was made by an alchemist, using the Mystic Energy Drain ward and the Inscribe Magic Circle spell in the basic parts of the enchantment. Due to the use of the mystic energy drain ward this part of the watch is undetectable to those sensitive to magic.
The magic creates a circle of magic 50' in radius centered on the watch, that drains 2d6 PPE from every living thing with in the range once every 15 sec., for up to 8 min. The PPE is stored in the Time Stopper's PPE storage, and once that is full the magic becomes dormant again. If used on a Ley Line or LL Nexus the watch is recharged with in the first 15 sec. Like with most magic devices, this function can only be used three times per day.

However, you'd still have to carry around something that the DE spell is attached to. Something the char could climb/walk into with the extra PA.

[cosmicfish]

Which might be true in real life but in the world of Palladium its pretty explicitly not that way.
Heck the GB is designed to be a wandering samurai type.....meaning the game was built around the trope of wandering power armor warriors.

No, the game was not built around that - they referenced it but then never created any structure to support it! The GB has a very tightly defined cargo space, and the GB pilot has a very tightly defined list of starting equipment that clearly overflows it without providing for carrying it outside the suit! Not to mention the fact that a lack of a support vehicle prevents the GB from carrying even reloads, much less tools or parts!

Although now that you mention this, I am imagining a GB wandering around, bindle slung of its shoulder full of underwear and rations. Kinda funny.

[eliakon]

Which might be true in real life but in the world of Palladium its pretty explicitly not that way.
Heck the GB is designed to be a wandering samurai type.....meaning the game was built around the trope of wandering power armor warriors.

No, the game was not built around that - they referenced it but then never created any structure to support it! The GB has a very tightly defined cargo space, and the GB pilot has a very tightly defined list of starting equipment that clearly overflows it without providing for carrying it outside the suit! Not to mention the fact that a lack of a support vehicle prevents the GB from carrying even reloads, much less tools or parts!

Although now that you mention this, I am imagining a GB wandering around, bindle slung of its shoulder full of underwear and rations. Kinda funny.

Okay, lets me rephrase that then. The original idea that gave rise to the entire game. The foundational premise? Yah the Boomer Glitterboy. A armor that ended up being described as being piloted almost exclusively by nomadic heroes.
Did the starting equipment fit? No.
Did they need to carry some sort of PA sized backpack/dufflebag/whatever to haul stuff in? Yeah.
But the basic statement is still true. The claim that "well you shouldn't be playing a wandering power armor pilot, its totally unrealistic" is pretty much in violation of the core spirit of the entire game.
So yeah, maybe people could HELP Falsor with their project, instead of explaining why "your doing it wrong"

[cosmicfish]

Seamus Aran, power armored soldier extraordinaire, owns a Samson mk-III, a Cougar, and a Coyote (and a really impressive arsenal of guns of all shapes and sizes) and travels with a robo-pegasus riding cyber-knight. Unfortunately, neither of the two own any other manner of vehicle. How does Seamus haul his extra power armor and assorted other gear around?

You have two options: Magic, or vehicle. Sorry, there just aren't other off-the-shelf options. And honestly, I am not sure why you would be trying to avoid having an additional vehicle. Remember that no one can live in Power Armor 24/7, this guy is going to need to spend substantial time outside his armor anyway!

It seems like if a Coyote can be worn under a jumpsuit, it should be possible to wear one inside a Samson, but for cheese reasons I suspect theres a rule somewhere that says you can't do that. Do any of yall know?

"A jumpsuit" is (or at least can be) loose, baggy, and oversized. It isn't fitted. A Samson, or any PA really, would in operation need to be tight and match the shape of the wearer. Even if you bought oversized PA (Ogre-sized?) you would still have the problem that the outside of even light PA simply doesn't match the shape of the human body. And it's hard. So no.

Also how much can a Samson carry? I figure if Seamus rigged up a Samson-scale equipment harness/backpack like infantry grunts use to carry around their 100 pounds of equipment it ought to be able to carry the cougar etc but I'm not sure. Am I the only person whose had this issue?

Samson has robotic PS 30, which gives it 750lb of carrying capacity. You could rig up some kind of quick-release pack so that you could ditch it in a hurry if you needed to, but it is going to be awkward and ungainly, and woe unto you if it gets stuck! You would also be in big danger on anything but a reinforced runway, as your ground pressure would be pretty high!

I don't see why you couldn't carry RPA, but the weight would still need to be centered over your feet (otherwise, you fall over) and that could be extremely complicated.

[Alrik Vas]

um...why wouldn't you load your power armor on the outside with the ability to carry more? It's not like it would be difficult...or it could even pull a small trailer. Though few packs would be easy, just need a harness and slap human sized backpacks that would be more like belt pouches to the power armor.

Really not seeing an issue.

[cosmicfish]

So yeah, maybe people could HELP Falsor with their project, instead of explaining why "your doing it wrong"

I was already in the process of doing so. But I see no reason why "wandering RPA pilot" automatically means "no vehicles!" I always assumed that a GB pilot would have some kind of support vehicle, perhaps driven by a trusty "squire", or would join a party that could provide such a service. A GB wandering around with a bag over it's shoulder is a GB in a pretty bad situation!

[eliakon]

um...why wouldn't you load your power armor on the outside with the ability to carry more? It's not like it would be difficult...or it could even pull a small trailer. Though few packs would be easy, just need a harness and slap human sized backpacks that would be more like belt pouches to the power armor.

Really not seeing an issue.

Your a genius.

A U-Haul mini-trailer with the guns and spare PA in it would be quite with in the towing capacity of the main PA.....

[kaid]

A party should always travel with what I call the base of operations robot....the Behemoth. Even better, the Super Behemoth (NG-1) Room to store your stuff, sleep and eat.

Hehe as I usually play operators I generally wind up being the driver of the party bus. Where bus = random vehicle that can haul a reasonable amount of loot around and give a ride to party members who either don't have their own vehicle.

Behemoth is a pretty amazing example of this but even something like the bulldog hauling a trailer works well or things like a big boss or moutaineer.

[Gamer]

um...why wouldn't you load your power armor on the outside with the ability to carry more? It's not like it would be difficult...or it could even pull a small trailer. Though few packs would be easy, just need a harness and slap human sized backpacks that would be more like belt pouches to the power armor.

Really not seeing an issue.

Your a genius.

A U-Haul mini-trailer with the guns and spare PA in it would be quite with in the towing capacity of the main PA.....

really?
And just what highway do you plan towing this trailer down with said power armor.
That power armor is going to find overland travel in the realm of much suck.
As i mentioned before a trailer towed by that robo-Pegasus will work but the going is still not going to be very great over land but will be much better than the suit of power armor doing it.

[RockJock]

Buy a robot to take care of it. A robot horse as a pack mule. A labor robot to drive a cheap vehicle for you, something like that.

I might, might be able to buy wearing the Coyote under the Samson, but with some restrictions. Assuming the pilot is small enough, with the Coyote on to fit I would require him to wear the Coyote to pilot the Samson. Without it on he can't reach the peddles so to speak. That still doesn't take care of your third suit and crate of guns plus everything else.

In any game I have played in the situation would solve itself with another character, or you getting robbed of the excess equipment.

[Rallan]

Heck the GB is designed to be a wandering samurai type.....meaning the game was built around the trope of wandering power armor warriors.

Which makes no sense when you think about it, since the same fluff text that builds GBs up as wandering warriors for hire is also pretty explicit about how virtually nobody in the world can build new parts for it. Like seriously, that ain't gonna buff out. Every last scratch that its laser-reflective armor takes can only be replaced by cannibalising armor from other GBs.

[The Beast]

Heck the GB is designed to be a wandering samurai type.....meaning the game was built around the trope of wandering power armor warriors.

Which makes no sense when you think about it, since the same fluff text that builds GBs up as wandering warriors for hire is also pretty explicit about how virtually nobody in the world can build new parts for it. Like seriously, that ain't gonna buff out. Every last scratch that its laser-reflective armor takes can only be replaced by cannibalising armor from other GBs.

Glitter Boys that don't use lasers as a primary weapon. Which results in your suit getting more damage. Which means you have to go out and cannibalize more GBs....

[eliakon]

Heck the GB is designed to be a wandering samurai type.....meaning the game was built around the trope of wandering power armor warriors.

Which makes no sense when you think about it, since the same fluff text that builds GBs up as wandering warriors for hire is also pretty explicit about how virtually nobody in the world can build new parts for it. Like seriously, that ain't gonna buff out. Every last scratch that its laser-reflective armor takes can only be replaced by cannibalising armor from other GBs.

Which is why in the fluff text there were supposed to be only a few of these guys left. Back in VK1 one of mega treasures was a Glitterboy suit....
....now days you can buy them, in bulk....

*sigh* but once upon a time...yah, each fight was slowly painful. Which was why that starting massive MDC pool wasn't so PWN LOL....
once upon a time that massive fire power and durability came at the cost of knowing that you were going to have the devils own time of getting anything repaired.....

[cosmicfish]

Heck the GB is designed to be a wandering samurai type.....meaning the game was built around the trope of wandering power armor warriors.

Which makes no sense when you think about it, since the same fluff text that builds GBs up as wandering warriors for hire is also pretty explicit about how virtually nobody in the world can build new parts for it. Like seriously, that ain't gonna buff out. Every last scratch that its laser-reflective armor takes can only be replaced by cannibalising armor from other GBs.

To be fair, this was always one of the problems I had with GB's - I loved the suit, I liked the "man with no name" attitude of the pilots... but it wasn't sustainable or practical. This was not at all limited to GB's, of course, they just had the roughest time of it. The game was unfortunately set up (IMO) to favor magic and psi in the long run - you expend all your Armor of Ithan MDC and kill bad guys for hours with your psi-sword, and the next day you can do it all over again without wondering where you were going to find a competent GB repairman or pay an exorbitant amount to recharge your e-clips. It always seemed a little grim that looting was the technological character's only real hope for survival.

But seriously, 35 MDC costs 42,000 credits to repair, recharging an e-clip costs at least 1200 credits (the same as half a dozen rounds of boom gun ammo?). Even a light engagement is going to be a financial disaster!

But I think we are off-topic a bit.

[Svartalf]

um...why wouldn't you load your power armor on the outside with the ability to carry more? It's not like it would be difficult...or it could even pull a small trailer. Though few packs would be easy, just need a harness and slap human sized backpacks that would be more like belt pouches to the power armor.

Really not seeing an issue.

Your a genius.

A U-Haul mini-trailer with the guns and spare PA in it would be quite with in the towing capacity of the main PA.....

really?
And just what highway do you plan towing this trailer down with said power armor.
That power armor is going to find overland travel in the realm of much suck.
As i mentioned before a trailer towed by that robo-Pegasus will work but the going is still not going to be very great over land but will be much better than the suit of power armor doing it.

use a hover trailer, the state of the roads is why wheeled vehicles have generally been replaced by hover ones.

[Falsor Wing]

I would like to mention that this character totally agrees with all of you concerning the advisability of operating from a transport. He even got employment as a guard for an arms dealer who rolled in a Big Bertha (it had its own repair and garage APT and everything, truly those were the salad days), but then one day shortly after he had just gotten himself all buttoned up in his armor to go patrol around a bit, some miscreant fired an offensively large missile at our most noble hover-train. Regrettably their helmsman's reaction speed was unparalleled and as soon as he saw it he swerved wildly into the treeline, got hit by the missile anyway, and somersaulted the poor Bertha end over end down into a deep ravine at about 75-30 mph. Our hero power armor pilot was of course greatly bruised and considerably confused and muchly upset, but otherwise came out of the hovertrain's unorthodox maneuver totally unharmed (he sure bounced around inside the hanger a lot but his armor was designed to absorb far greater impacts, it also helped that there was so much advanced equipment in the bay to cushion his impacts).

Once the train hit the bottom of the ravine and his powerball impersonation came to an abrupt end, our hero immediately set to work swearing at their helmsman via as man different means of communication as possible (in this case radio, loudspeaker, and the grinding of his teeth). No one responded, but then after he'd spent a few moments figuring out just which way was up (disconcertingly up was in the direction of the cab, the bertha wasn't standing perfectly on its end but it was only about thirty degrees off.) As the hanger door was at the cabward end of the compartment and looked like it could be popped open fairly easy the still fairly disoriented power armored man spent 12 extremely frustrating minutes learning that broken pipes, bent deck plating, and twisted guardrails all shared an inability to provide him with the handholds he would need to climb up toward the hanger door as bearing the weight of a suit of heavy power armor with a man inside was something none of them could even consider doing. After tearing the compartments fittings apart proved unable to transport him up the walls of the vehicle our hero hypothesized that whatever as it was that had happened to the Big Bertha had clearly bent the superstructure, the hanger door had probably popped at least partway out of its housing, it probably just needed one good shove...

After the soldier's enthusiastic rocket-leap ricocheted him into the wall opposite the hanger door, then back down into the floor/aft wall of the compartment the man decided that, concerns about collapsing the already structurally shattered hovertain on top of himself or no, it looked like he might have to provide the hanger with an addition point of egress. One he could reach.


The trains superstructure had failed badly enough that some light poked into the hanger through rents torn in the hull as it twisted and it was these that allowed his suits auditory sensors to detect and alert him to the fact that several weapons were being discharged nearby. The man knew that as the only part of the crew who'd been safely buttoned up inside a suit of power armor, likely the only man in any kind of armor at all, if anyone else had survived the crash they were almost certainly heavily injured and wouldn't be able to hold off a group off toddlers much less armed men come to scoop up the candy from the piniata they'd just whacked open.

A single plasma mini-missile blew the hanger door (which had indeed popped most out the way out of its housing) out from the hovertrain like a cork from a bottle of champaign and the armored suit burst out of the hanger after it. As he came back down towards the ground, finessing his jets a bit to be sure he came down on one of them as a beam fired from his forearm deleted one of the attacker's top half from existence it was instantly apparent from the looks of horror every one of the attackers had fastened on him that these bandits were not rich. They had probably scraped up all they had just to buy that missile knowing that the ensuing 120 mile-an-hour surprise crash would leave everyone on-board the train pulverized so they'd be able to sweep in and scoop up their payday without any of the grenade launchers, laser rifles, railguns, and body armor more prosperous gangs used to attack targets like this. They had even been careful to make sure the vessels power armored protector had gone in for lunch and carefully timed their attack to ensure he would be all the way out of his armor and in the kitchen where he would almost certainly never bother using a seat with safety restraints. Unfortunately for them the armor pilot had been worried the train's cargo-master would eat far more than his portion of clam-chowder if given a chance so he'd dismounted his armor as fast as possible, run into the kitchen, and essentially chugged down his share of lunch so by the time they struck he was once again safely ensconced in Norther Gun's loving embrace. And that meant they were all doomed to die.

As the powerful suit came down directly on top of one of them a couple of the bandits had already opened fire and were stunned with a renewed sense of horror when their beams were shrugged aside without even touching the surface of the armor by some kind of magic or force-field they'd never even heard of before. After that only one one other brigand got off a shot as two more of his comrades were turned into an aerosol. The armor pilot didn't even bother to glance at his attacker when the man's ramjet rounds were slapped away from the suit with an odd popping sound, he just crushed the life from man with an absent-minded looking back-hand as his other, particle beam-equipped, arm tracked towards and burned down the only other brigand still left alive.

At that point the power armor pilot took stock of the situation. He was in the middle of the wilderness and didn't really have any idea how to get back to the trade center they started out from or where their intended destination was even supposed to be. The only conceivable functionality the power armor pilot might hope for from the hover-train was as a grain silo and seeing as how much time, effort, and money the man had put into each of his armored suits he'd be damned before he'd ever even consider just abandoning one of them here. More than just the number of credits each suit represented each suit preformed totally different jobs, losing one of them would be like a mage losing half of his spells; sure he could still do magic, but he'd ever after feel like a cripple. So he sifted through the wrecked Big Bertha, gathered together the rest of the equipment and supplies he decided he'd want, jury-rigged a break-away carrying harness, hoisted one suit of power armor up onto the others back along with bundles of weapons, ammunition, supplies, and sundies, and went on his way.

That power armor did indeed find overland travel in the realm of much suck...

[Falsor Wing]

As far as the notion of the wandering power armor pilot goes I am totally on board with that idea, its just not this particular pilot. A wandering power armor pilot would have to approach things totally differently. For starters i probably wouldn't even use the power armor/robot operator OCC, he needs to focus on having just his one suit so the starting gear is kind of a waste. Most importantly however Robot pilots can't really take the skills they would need to maintain their suit, I think a Special Forces OCC might be the best because they can take whatever damn skills they want they're like skill-polygamists.

Wilderness survival, the various mechanical skills, land-nav, probably some kind of diplomatic skill, and then all the combat relevant skills to make sure they can squeeze every ounce of potential out of their suit. I'd likely chose one of the man-sized suits as a lot of important things occasionally happen indoors. Its also much easier to interact with and work with people when you aren't a big stompy guy twice their size. There are a great many vehicles a Cougar or Lynx can hitch a ride on and while there are also a great many vehicles capable of transporting a Samson they probably won't be able to haul a samson as well as whatever cargo the owner bought a cargo hauler to haul. As well in a man sized suit you're nowhere near as high profile target, you'll likely be able to stay in good cover almost all the time, while there are very few things an 11.5 foot tall robot can really hide behind (no waist high walls for you Samson). Big suits like the samson actually have to modify standard weapons before they can use them, a man-sized suit can just pick stuff up and use it. A Samson can't operate a lot of computers or machinery because their massive fingers would push like five buttons at once.

A PA provides all the basics an adventurer will need except food and water and with their nuclear generators you should find boiling up some water well within your means. PA guarantees you'll never die from getting caught out in a winter storm and freezing to death, it will also allow you to make your way across the desert on foot without any fear of heatstroke and the like so you'll even be able to plug along when others sleep through the hottest part of the day, They srt you up with a radio that will allow you to keep in touch with someone in civilization most of the time.

Its true that you can't stay inside of your suit all of the time but I don't really see how thats a problem. You can certainly spend the vast majority of your time in your suit and while you will be vulnerable outside you won't be any more so than a cyber-knight will be when they go to sleep at night. There are a great many places of course that won't let you in wearing enough firepower to wreck and armored company but DBs and mages get turned away from places all the time.

The biggest issue is probably repairs. Even if you can fix it yourself you have to have access to parts and you certainly can't assume you'll have access when you need them. If your character can make their way to merctown at some point and you can save up enough money the wonderful beings at Naruni can make this problem all but nonexistant, but not all will have that oportunity and may want to use what alternatives they can get be they magical items like rod of light night or something that can Ithan-ize you. you might use more disposable handheld shields. Also consider that while a power armor user who takes 200 MD in a particularly nasty fight will be incredibly vulnerable until he can effect repairs a crazy who takes 200 MD in a fight will be dead. The lone wanderer power armor pilot isn't going to operate like a shock trooper he has to exploit his ability to wield more powerful and longer ranged weapon along with his fantastic mobility. Exploit having powerful sensors to make sure you have the element of surprise. the lone wandered has be be focusing on stealth a lot more.

One thing I would like to point out is that real world heavy duty combat vehicles are too maintenace intensive to be able to drive themselves around any time except when the'tr actually going into combat, because that much weight and that much power wears out parts and causes all kinds of other problems. Modern armored vehicles could never be viable as the lone wandering here BECAUSE MODERN EQUIPMENT IS ALL MADE OF SDC MATERIAL. The materials rifts power armors are composed of are a hundred times tougher than what an M1 Abrahms is made out of. These components can only be destroyed by MD weapons and friction is an SD phenominon. A suits of power armor should only ever new a part replaced IF THAT PART HAS BEEN DELIBERATELY DESTROYED BY MEGA SUPER DEATH LASERS. So in that light wearing PA as the lone wandering hero is no more impractical than using non-environmental MDC body armor, neither of them are going to wear down or break unless a great deal of energy is dedicated to making it happen.

[RockJock]

Have someone build/engineer a cargo pod on the back of the Samson. I'm thinking a hard shelled magnetic box. My problem with the jury rigged backpack is this. A human with a big,backpacking backpack that weighs a good chunk of your body weight is not so easy to get on and off.

The Russian stacking dolls of PA idea has issues. I think if you have the Samson configured for you to wear the Coyote under it you would have issues not wearing the Coyote. Pedals being out of reach and that sort of thing. Maybe you only get Basic Piloting without the under suit, something like that.

[cosmicfish]

I think the size difference between the pilot and the pilot in the Coyote is going be a bigger deal than you think. It has to be accepted that PA suits are adjustable (as a game convenience) but that doesn't mean that they are one-size-fits-all. You would need to take however much time your GM decides is necessary to refit the armor before you could use it in the other configuration.

And there is also the form factor. The exterior of the Coyote is not the same as the exterior of a human nor, presumably, the standard interior of a Samson. You would need to make a lot more adjustments than normal just to fit the Coyote inside, and they may not even be possible. Going the other way would be just as tricky.

As an aside, I am pretty sure that PA pilots cannot wear MDC body armor inside their PA's (outside of a few specialty suits), so I don't see the justification for allowing stacked PA's. Wouldn't that just lead to everyone wearing BA under their PA?

[cosmicfish]

A PA provides all the basics an adventurer will need except food and water and with their nuclear generators you should find boiling up some water well within your means. PA guarantees you'll never die from getting caught out in a winter storm and freezing to death, it will also allow you to make your way across the desert on foot without any fear of heatstroke and the like so you'll even be able to plug along when others sleep through the hottest part of the day, They srt you up with a radio that will allow you to keep in touch with someone in civilization most of the time.

You do, however, need to spend significant amounts of time outside the PA to avoid muscle atrophy (RUE, pg 71), so as great as PA is, you cannot plan on living in it.

Its true that you can't stay inside of your suit all of the time but I don't really see how thats a problem. You can certainly spend the vast majority of your time in your suit and while you will be vulnerable outside you won't be any more so than a cyber-knight will be when they go to sleep at night.

Actually, you are much more vulnerable. When a cyber-knight goes to sleep he or she still has their armor and their sensors and their weapons on them. You don't. According to the Game Master Guide (pg 42?) it takes a minute, 4 melee rounds to put on and start up PA. And by the time that clock has even started the cyber-knight is already in fighting position. A mage or a psi can jump naked from a shower and instantly be at 95% combat effectiveness, and Rifts denies that to technological warriors.

There are a great many places of course that won't let you in wearing enough firepower to wreck and armored company but DBs and mages get turned away from places all the time.

I would wager that outside of prejudicial issues, PA gets turned away a lot more. Not only do you have the size issue ("you're tearing up my ceiling!") and the weight issue ("you're tearing up my floors!"), but DB's and psis and mages (a) cannot stop being what they are and (b) are not solely combat-oriented. If someone tried to walk into my town/saloon/whatever wearing a cumbersome no-other-job-but-death machine, I would be far more worried than if a mage walked in able to heal people AND cast fireballs.

One thing I would like to point out is that real world heavy duty combat vehicles are too maintenace intensive to be able to drive themselves around any time except when the'tr actually going into combat, because that much weight and that much power wears out parts and causes all kinds of other problems. Modern armored vehicles could never be viable as the lone wandering here BECAUSE MODERN EQUIPMENT IS ALL MADE OF SDC MATERIAL. The materials rifts power armors are composed of are a hundred times tougher than what an M1 Abrahms is made out of. These components can only be destroyed by MD weapons and friction is an SD phenominon. A suits of power armor should only ever new a part replaced IF THAT PART HAS BEEN DELIBERATELY DESTROYED BY MEGA SUPER DEATH LASERS. So in that light wearing PA as the lone wandering hero is no more impractical than using non-environmental MDC body armor, neither of them are going to wear down or break unless a great deal of energy is dedicated to making it happen.

While I agree that friction between SDC materials is SDC damage, I see no reason to then assume that friction between MDC materials would not produce MDC damage. There are certainly MD weapons made of MD materials that damage MDC armor, I would expect two pieces of MDC material grinding on each other to wear each other down.

[Falsor Wing]

Actually, you are much more vulnerable. When a cyber-knight goes to sleep he or she still has their armor and their sensors and their weapons on them. You don't. According to the Game Master Guide (pg 42?) it takes a minute, 4 melee rounds to put on and start up PA. And by the time that clock has even started the cyber-knight is already in fighting position. A mage or a psi can jump naked from a shower and instantly be at 95% combat effectiveness, and Rifts denies that to technological warriors.

Ok you absolutely can sleep in power armor and you wouldn't have any reason to turn it off while you did. In fact you have almost no reason not to sleep in your power armor because your muscles wouldn't atrophy any more than they would if you slept somewhere else. Before anyone suggests that sleeping in power armor would be super uncomfortable I want to point out that PAs are based on space suits they are not simply "plate mail with lasers" and space suits have to be designed so that they can be worn comfortably for long periods of time (yes I realize astronauts frequently mention that after spacewalks their hads are bruised and messed up but that actually almost proves my points as one NASAs highest priorities in spacesuit design and research is finding a gauntlet design that doesn't have that problem). The fact that only limiting factor concerning how long they can be worn explicitly set forth in the rules isn't lesions or cramps or joint pain attests to just how comfortable they are. You're absolutely right about jumping out of the shower though power armor specialists have some severe limitation, so too though do cyber-knights. If a cyber-knight is attacked by an airborne enemy like a Samas they not at 95% combat effectiveness; a power armor pilot on the other hand can just blaze away like he normally would.

I would wager that outside of prejudicial issues, PA gets turned away a lot more. Not only do you have the size issue ("you're tearing up my ceiling!") and the weight issue ("you're tearing up my floors!"), but DB's and psis and mages (a) cannot stop being what they are and (b) are not solely combat-oriented. If someone tried to walk into my town/saloon/whatever wearing a cumbersome no-other-job-but-death machine, I would be far more worried than if a mage walked in able to heal people AND cast fireballs.

That I will concede. My own power armor specialist wasn't allowed to wear it inside Merctown and that was nerve-wracking. I think that the more built-up/established/civilized the region your character is operating in the less viable the lone wanderer PA becomes. I had envisioned them operating in and around towns at the edge of the untamed wilderness or perhaps exploring old ruins reclaimed by nature/magical horror show. I don't see this as a weakness though really. Consider for a moment the city-rat in the city he has every advantage in the world over a PA specialist who won't be allowed to suit up pretty much anywhere. If however you plunk that city-rat down in the dino swamp he'll wish he was power armor guy (though in the swamp specifically PAs also have some rather major issues, though they can be overcome [I traveled via mangrove and campaigning there was much fun])

While I agree that friction between SDC materials is SDC damage, I see no reason to then assume that friction between MDC materials would not produce MDC damage. There are certainly MD weapons made of MD materials that damage MDC armor, I would expect two pieces of MDC material grinding on each other to wear each other down.

Just being made of MDC material has no effect on how much kinetic energy it imparts to things it hits or rubs against. If you made a bat out of MDC material and a bat made out of titanium they'll both cause the same amount of damage if you hit someone with them. MD weapons are made out of MDC materials because they have to be or the barrel/entire weapon would vaporize the first time you fired a shot. There are MD melee weapons but every one of them contains a mechanism that will discharge energy into the target or do whatever it is that vibro-weapons are doing, etc. The perfect example of this is the NG-B50 "Thunderer" the crazy combat hammer that shoots bigbore shells when it hits things. If you look at its damage summary it explicitly states that the impact of the hammer itself (which is made out of MDC material) only deals SD its MD comes purely from the bigbore shells

[Falsor Wing]

I think the size difference between the pilot and the pilot in the Coyote is going be a bigger deal than you think. It has to be accepted that PA suits are adjustable (as a game convenience) but that doesn't mean that they are one-size-fits-all. You would need to take however much time your GM decides is necessary to refit the armor before you could use it in the other configuration.

And there is also the form factor. The exterior of the Coyote is not the same as the exterior of a human nor, presumably, the standard interior of a Samson. You would need to make a lot more adjustments than normal just to fit the Coyote inside, and they may not even be possible. Going the other way would be just as tricky.

As an aside, I am pretty sure that PA pilots cannot wear MDC body armor inside their PA's (outside of a few specialty suits), so I don't see the justification for allowing stacked PA's. Wouldn't that just lead to everyone wearing BA under their PA?

I didn't mean to imply that I am sure "russian stacking doll PA" is kosher. Clearly it wouldn't work in something like a lynx or cougar, but the art I've seen of samson interior look very cockpit-esque like you don't so much wear them as pilot them (that PA users are called PA pilots rustles the hell out of my jimmies but thats a subject for another day). I think your point about coyote exterior=/=human exterior is a really great point and, for me at least, puts the coyote-in-samson question to bed.