Theory and Practice of Surpise Negation

[eliakon]

Okay...so lets look first at Surprise

-If you bought Danger Sense super power you can not be caught by surprise (it says so in the text) so they obviously never get flat footed....because it explicitly says the do not.

-If you bought Heightened Sense of Awareness you "can not usually be caught by surprise" ...so they CAN be caught flat footed.

-And as BOTH of these specifically talk about surprise it follows that Sixth Sense does not negate surprise as if it did, that would have to be included in the power description, and it is not. Also known as abilities only grant you the abilities listed and not any additional ones.

Lesson here seems to be "if you want to never be flat footed, then take Danger Sense as it is the only power that says that it prevents being flat footed."

Now lets look at Ricochet.
The shot says 'can not be dodged or parried' which seems pretty clear...unless something says that it DOES allow a dodge or parry against all attacks....it doesn't.
Since there are AFAIK no super powers or psionics that say this, then there is nothing that can be selected with the expectation of getting this ability.

You're not wrong.

But you not right either. That literal reading damages play. If the PC is going to blow a power selection rather then just something that lets them soak damage or push damage out put, a GM has to pay it off. This is a very limited use of an ability, so it's not a big give. Making sure a player feels like that's a power well spent, very valuable.

How does it damage play to make a person play with the actual written stats of the powers they picked rather than what they would like that power to do?
I mean sure the GM can always house rule things to be whatever they like, but the actual written powers seem to have been specifically designed a certain way, to do a specific certain thing. This is why they address stuff like Surprise in each power and carefully spell out how it works...because the power was intended to do a certain thing and not do other things.
I mean look at Heightened Sense of Awareness Vs. Danger Sense.
Danger Sense makes you immune to surprise, but Heightened Sense of Awareness provides an Autododge. Totally different bonuses for the same 'combat sense'
Sixth Sense can be taken by almost any sensitive and makes them very hard to kill with traps or tricks, and gives them a chance to react to many things before they should know about it....but it is a minor psionic power not a super psionic power, which is why it is not an Infallible Shield Against All Surprise and Danger

Fair questions.

Ask yourself, in play what is the point of a power? How often does the player get to use it? What steps can you the GM take to validate that selection? What can I do to make the play who picked that power feel like s/he's shining center stage?

Never flat footed. How frequently do you as the GM use ambush style attacks, vs sneak attacks? To my experience, a good ambush requires set up on the part of the bad guys, set up the PCs could well detect with a detect ambush skill check. It's complex, and requires everything to be just so. Sneak attacks tend to be situational just require the baddies realizing that the good guys have a vulnerability and look to exploit those openings. During the course of play, the players will seek to close those openings down. That is to say, they'll get better at not getting caught flat footed. So their active play will discourage that, separate from powers. So we have combat format that's not going to be used in every combat format, something that can be reduced down through the use of skill selection, and active play is reducing the opportunities for such tricks. So why take one of those powers?

A subset of the above and good demonstration is the static trap. Poison dart flying out of the wall, explosives sections of floor, a giant bolder that chases you or spring loaded blades in a wall, these set ups require a bunch of set up on the part of the villains and don't pay out too well in a world in which people can turn into air, fly, teleport or walk through walls. And that's provided they aren't just flat out immune to the effects of the trap. In D&D a trap might have some function, in Heroes Unlimited, it's questionable without the GM using it as a plot point.

How often does this get used? A power that sits on a character sheet and doesn't get used is by definition, useless. Situational powers are already several steps behind something that's always going to pay off. These types of powers tend to go into themed builds. If the player starts to feel like his themed power set isn't as good a build as the guy who just went for the straight combat god, they get frustrated. As the GM we need to put this power center stage.

How does the GM validate this selection? As I've been pointing out, a player can take these niche powers, or they can take something that just gives them an AR and SDC bump. Under the rules reading (which is legit) you gave out, harden skin pays out much better then heightened awareness. Consider these statements: 1)So this guy is shooting at me from behind cover, and there isn't anything my heightened awareness can do about it. I'll just have to soak it. 2)So this guy is shooting at me from behind cover, but he still has to beat my NAR, and I have a bunch of SDC to soak the damage that does get through from hardened skin.

How do you help the character shine? This is really the crux of the trouble. As the GM you need to validate that power selection. Not all psionics, minor powers or major powers are equal. Or even kind of equal. Or even in the same state as equal. Sometimes not even on the same continent as equal. But the GM has to build that illusion or player builds will tend towards what's the most useful. Yes heightened awareness gives you autododge, but EX:PP gives you better autododge. That is to say, you have to build the idea of equality in a game about being far more then most everyone else.

Yeah, I know.

How do you do that? Little gives. Like never being flatfooted. I'm the GM, and I have ten billion and six ways to either inflict damage on the PCs or just straight up kill the characters should I so choose. This doesn't cost me anything.

I guess I am just used to playing in games where characters picked their powers and abilities because they fit the concept of the character they were making, and not to maximize their combat potential that I don't consider trying to make every power equally useful in straight up fights.
If you want to get a combat sense power there are several options if you DON'T want combat sense and instead want something like more armor then pick an armor power, if you want autododge pick a power for autododge. If you want a whole bunch of powers for one choice ask the GM if you can make a new major power or something. What ever you do as a player though don't whine to the GM that you cant take one power and also get portions of another couple powers. Because seriously not all powers SHOULD be equally useful in every situation.

And as for questions of 'how to use powers' or 'how to run battles' that is so utterly far into the Individual GM/Player Game Style area that you can't see it from the rule book.
If a group is running games where they are constantly getting ambushed and caught flat footed it suggests to me that the intent of that particular game is to actually have ambushes and flat footing. So why would I go and say "well this campaign has this theme...but tell you what if you take this power I will toss in Immunity To Campaign Problem for free"
Validating powers is a GM job yes. But that doesn't mean that powers that are situational should be given MORE power just so that they can be more valuable. It means that the GM just has more work to make those powers/players have situations where their powers are useful (this is seen in the comic books all the time. Where no matter what the power set of a hero/group the problem can always be solved by them and doesn't require other powers that they don't have....and how even the most useless seeming power will save the day every so often)

In short no, I don't see any reason why a person that deliberately takes Heightened Sense of Awareness should get all of its bonuses PLUS the perk of the guy who took Danger Sense. If he wants Danger Sense's perk than take that power as well as Heightened Sense of Awareness. But if they take a bunch of sensory powers then chances are they are not going to have the selections to also take a bunch of physical boosts....such is life not every super hero can have every power. They have to pick and choose which ones they want.

If a group doesn't like the Palladium system of doing things they can change the system for their table, or they can use a different system that allows them to build the heroes they want.....but I can literally see no good reason to assume that the RAW should be ignored simply because some players want to get a second power for free.

[The Artist Formerly]

[
I guess I am just used to playing in games where characters picked their powers and abilities because they fit the concept of the character they were making, and not to maximize their combat potential that I don't consider trying to make every power equally useful in straight up fights.
If you want to get a combat sense power there are several options if you DON'T want combat sense and instead want something like more armor then pick an armor power, if you want autododge pick a power for autododge. If you want a whole bunch of powers for one choice ask the GM if you can make a new major power or something. What ever you do as a player though don't whine to the GM that you cant take one power and also get portions of another couple powers. Because seriously not all powers SHOULD be equally useful in every situation.

And as for questions of 'how to use powers' or 'how to run battles' that is so utterly far into the Individual GM/Player Game Style area that you can't see it from the rule book.
If a group is running games where they are constantly getting ambushed and caught flat footed it suggests to me that the intent of that particular game is to actually have ambushes and flat footing. So why would I go and say "well this campaign has this theme...but tell you what if you take this power I will toss in Immunity To Campaign Problem for free"
Validating powers is a GM job yes. But that doesn't mean that powers that are situational should be given MORE power just so that they can be more valuable. It means that the GM just has more work to make those powers/players have situations where their powers are useful (this is seen in the comic books all the time. Where no matter what the power set of a hero/group the problem can always be solved by them and doesn't require other powers that they don't have....and how even the most useless seeming power will save the day every so often)

In short no, I don't see any reason why a person that deliberately takes Heightened Sense of Awareness should get all of its bonuses PLUS the perk of the guy who took Danger Sense. If he wants Danger Sense's perk than take that power as well as Heightened Sense of Awareness. But if they take a bunch of sensory powers then chances are they are not going to have the selections to also take a bunch of physical boosts....such is life not every super hero can have every power. They have to pick and choose which ones they want.

If a group doesn't like the Palladium system of doing things they can change the system for their table, or they can use a different system that allows them to build the heroes they want.....but I can literally see no good reason to assume that the RAW should be ignored simply because some players want to get a second power for free.

Ehh.... It's a more subtle thing then that. I think your approaching this from the wrong angle. A player sitting under fire looking at a power they spent that isn't paying out. Especially when there are three other players at the table, it becomes "a why did I pick this" kind of deal. Especially when we're talking about something so limited. As a story teller, I want all of my players to feel like they are vital to the story.

So when you sit down to build a character, there are a number of things you have to figure into the build. Class, skill package, power set, and combat abilities.

Class. Figure three or four players. The GM has an idea for the story they want to tell. The players have ideas on what they want to play. These don't always meet. Additionally, we have different player concepts and builds, we get various power level builds. This can result in a subtle build by one player, and a heavy handed combat monster build by someone else. A fight that's rough going for the combat monster could well splatter the subtle build. So how does a GM balance that out? Niche. Play to the strengths of the niche build. Give that character something to do.

Skill package. This is really variable. So it's possible to set out a subtle build, and get crap for skills, based on a single throw of the dice. Similarly you can generate a combat monster who's Phd. You're skill package is vital to the hows of your play style for the character. Not only does this dice roll control how many skills you get, but also what access to skills you get. One could fail to even have access to the skills that you'll need to make a subtle build work as intended. Especially if part of your build relies on having certain skills. Even worse if you have to blast a skill program for class features.

Power set. Now we're getting to it. You only get a few powers, and you won't get any more, so they HAVE to count for as many situations as possible. Your build needs to useful when pushing into a gang land hideout, a vampire lord's night club, a diner party for the most powerful people in the world and deranged amusement park lair of a crazy villain. All four of these are basically the same adventure, but with dramatically different set ups and requirements from the players. Looking for anything that can be used in as many circumstances as possible, just make sense. A number of powers will give you combat bonuses, skill bonuses and special abilities.

Finally combat. Combat only has a set number of outcomes. In keeping with a game designed to emulate comic books, it's an important part of the system and your build. Your skill set and your power set basically dictate how this plays out, so the player, who had to roll for them, they have to be very focused on what they're doing.

In the original question from the other thread, we had a very limited situation. I'm of the opinion that there is no reason to not reward the the player taking power with fewer applications. It's just not that big a give, allowing them, through the use of that power, to regain their active defense when normally they wouldn't be allowed it. It's in keeping with spirit of the power.

Finally, I would point you to the rule of one. As the GM, I am free to change any rule I see fit, how I see fit. There's an essay on it in the GMs guide. So even my give is within the Rules as Written.

[eliakon]

[
I guess I am just used to playing in games where characters picked their powers and abilities because they fit the concept of the character they were making, and not to maximize their combat potential that I don't consider trying to make every power equally useful in straight up fights.
If you want to get a combat sense power there are several options if you DON'T want combat sense and instead want something like more armor then pick an armor power, if you want autododge pick a power for autododge. If you want a whole bunch of powers for one choice ask the GM if you can make a new major power or something. What ever you do as a player though don't whine to the GM that you cant take one power and also get portions of another couple powers. Because seriously not all powers SHOULD be equally useful in every situation.

And as for questions of 'how to use powers' or 'how to run battles' that is so utterly far into the Individual GM/Player Game Style area that you can't see it from the rule book.
If a group is running games where they are constantly getting ambushed and caught flat footed it suggests to me that the intent of that particular game is to actually have ambushes and flat footing. So why would I go and say "well this campaign has this theme...but tell you what if you take this power I will toss in Immunity To Campaign Problem for free"
Validating powers is a GM job yes. But that doesn't mean that powers that are situational should be given MORE power just so that they can be more valuable. It means that the GM just has more work to make those powers/players have situations where their powers are useful (this is seen in the comic books all the time. Where no matter what the power set of a hero/group the problem can always be solved by them and doesn't require other powers that they don't have....and how even the most useless seeming power will save the day every so often)

In short no, I don't see any reason why a person that deliberately takes Heightened Sense of Awareness should get all of its bonuses PLUS the perk of the guy who took Danger Sense. If he wants Danger Sense's perk than take that power as well as Heightened Sense of Awareness. But if they take a bunch of sensory powers then chances are they are not going to have the selections to also take a bunch of physical boosts....such is life not every super hero can have every power. They have to pick and choose which ones they want.

If a group doesn't like the Palladium system of doing things they can change the system for their table, or they can use a different system that allows them to build the heroes they want.....but I can literally see no good reason to assume that the RAW should be ignored simply because some players want to get a second power for free.

Ehh.... It's a more subtle thing then that. I think your approaching this from the wrong angle. A player sitting under fire looking at a power they spent that isn't paying out. Especially when there are three other players at the table, it becomes "a why did I pick this" kind of deal. Especially when we're talking about something so limited. As a story teller, I want all of my players to feel like they are vital to the story.

I think that the first part of this paragraph has nothing to do with the second part.
Being part of the story has nothing at all to do with being in a fight someplace and not being able to immediately use all of their powers.
Some times you don't get to be the star.

So when you sit down to build a character, there are a number of things you have to figure into the build. Class, skill package, power set, and combat abilities.

Okay

Class. Figure three or four players. The GM has an idea for the story they want to tell. The players have ideas on what they want to play. These don't always meet. Additionally, we have different player concepts and builds, we get various power level builds. This can result in a subtle build by one player, and a heavy handed combat monster build by someone else. A fight that's rough going for the combat monster could well splatter the subtle build. So how does a GM balance that out? Niche. Play to the strengths of the niche build. Give that character something to do.

Yep, GM needs to cater to all the players.....
....which I don't think involves "lets give some guy extra powers" ESPECIALLY since this is unfair to the guy who does take the power.
Why should Joe with his Heightened Sense of Awareness get to get all his powers PLUS the perk that Bob over here had to take the Danger Sense power for?
If Joe wanted the perks from Danger Sense then they should buy Danger Sense, not complain that the power they did take isn't getting a different powers perks.

Skill package. This is really variable. So it's possible to set out a subtle build, and get crap for skills, based on a single throw of the dice. Similarly you can generate a combat monster who's Phd. You're skill package is vital to the hows of your play style for the character. Not only does this dice roll control how many skills you get, but also what access to skills you get. One could fail to even have access to the skills that you'll need to make a subtle build work as intended. Especially if part of your build relies on having certain skills. Even worse if you have to blast a skill program for class features.

Right, same page here

Power set. Now we're getting to it. You only get a few powers, and you won't get any more, so they HAVE to count for as many situations as possible. Your build needs to useful when pushing into a gang land hideout, a vampire lord's night club, a diner party for the most powerful people in the world and deranged amusement park lair of a crazy villain. All four of these are basically the same adventure, but with dramatically different set ups and requirements from the players. Looking for anything that can be used in as many circumstances as possible, just make sense. A number of powers will give you combat bonuses, skill bonuses and special abilities.

Yep, so if you want a specific ability find a power that grants it and take it....
I would also say that these are not at all in anyway "basically the same adventure". And in fact I would say that the GM and Players should be talking before the game starts so that they can know what is expected. If your going to be doing high society adventures then Feral combat wombats, chromed out war-borgs and 30' combat mecha are not going to be usefull.....but if your going to be doing a lot of gritty street level work against the gangs then it would be unfair to not let the player know that spending two skill packages on social skills and fine arts are going to be basically wasted.....

Finally combat. Combat only has a set number of outcomes. In keeping with a game designed to emulate comic books, it's an important part of the system and your build. Your skill set and your power set basically dictate how this plays out, so the player, who had to roll for them, they have to be very focused on what they're doing.

More or less. Although I disagree strongly that it is "an important part of the system and your build". Though I guess some people just build characters around combat I am not convinced that this is, or should ever be considered, 'the right way of playing'. I have been in entire campaigns where there was never a single combat. The current Rifts game I am in now, has been going for close to two years....and has had a total of five battles.

In the original question from the other thread, we had a very limited situation. I'm of the opinion that there is no reason to not reward the the player taking power with fewer applications. It's just not that big a give, allowing them, through the use of that power, to regain their active defense when normally they wouldn't be allowed it. It's in keeping with spirit of the power.

I really don't see how HSoA is a power with 'fewer aplications'
It gets a bonus to Initiative, Roll with F/P/I, Horror Factor doesn't usually suffer from surprise and then as Icing gets Automatic Dodge (this being one of a handful of powers that provide Automatic dodge. For Minor Powers there are exactly AFAIK 4 powers that grant this: Hightened Sense of Awareness, Lightning Reflexes, Ex PP, and Ex-Spd)
So its already pretty swanky. Why in the world do I need to top this and grant them one of the powers from Danger Sense (can not ever be surprised). Let alone grant them a class feature of a different Power Category (Always gets a defense against all attacks is a Juicer/Chemical Enhancement Super Soldier perk)

Finally, I would point you to the rule of one. As the GM, I am free to change any rule I see fit, how I see fit. There's an essay on it in the GMs guide. So even my give is within the Rules as Written.

By this logic then there is no such thing as RAW since anyones house rules should be considered canon since they are just unwritten addenda to Rule Zero.
So no...it is not RAW it is in RAHR(0).
To be Rules As Written it needs to be, you know, As Written In The Rule Book.

[The Artist Formerly]

I wrote a post, but the internet ate it, I'll try again. But this is a good topic, so I don't want you to think I'm ignoring your post.

[auyl]

This is why there needs to be a revision of some of the concepts. One of my trips to Gencon one of the Palladium ambassadors ran his game in a way that didn't make sense and went against rules. The powers can be read in different ways and while this is a bonus to some it can hinder those of us who GM from getting on common ground.

[The Artist Formerly]

I think that the first part of this paragraph has nothing to do with the second part.
Being part of the story has nothing at all to do with being in a fight someplace and not being able to immediately use all of their powers.
Some times you don't get to be the star.

Always keeping the players involved in the story. The players are the stars, the opposition are set pieces.

Yep, GM needs to cater to all the players.....
....which I don't think involves "lets give some guy extra powers" ESPECIALLY since this is unfair to the guy who does take the power.
Why should Joe with his Heightened Sense of Awareness get to get all his powers PLUS the perk that Bob over here had to take the Danger Sense power for?
If Joe wanted the perks from Danger Sense then they should buy Danger Sense, not complain that the power they did take isn't getting a different powers perks.

Palladium's way with words. "Almost never" is tricky wording. Able to maintain his defensive action in the gun fight we're talking about, but Joe's husband is able to throw the most epic surprise party ever would meet that description. With in the context of the basic situation, a player character could reasonably argue that given s/he is under fire, wide eyed and ready for a fight, with super human abilities, this defensive roll should still count. Doesn't seem like a big give to me to rule in the PC's favor.

Right, same page here

Cool.

Yep, so if you want a specific ability find a power that grants it and take it....
I would also say that these are not at all in anyway "basically the same adventure". And in fact I would say that the GM and Players should be talking before the game starts so that they can know what is expected. If your going to be doing high society adventures then Feral combat wombats, chromed out war-borgs and 30' combat mecha are not going to be usefull.....but if your going to be doing a lot of gritty street level work against the gangs then it would be unfair to not let the player know that spending two skill packages on social skills and fine arts are going to be basically wasted.....

Hehe, see I'd expect my PC to figure it out. I run adventures that run the gambit. Combat-wombat. You're a poet.

More or less. Although I disagree strongly that it is "an important part of the system and your build". Though I guess some people just build characters around combat I am not convinced that this is, or should ever be considered, 'the right way of playing'. I have been in entire campaigns where there was never a single combat. The current Rifts game I am in now, has been going for close to two years....and has had a total of five battles.

Palladium has spent a lot of pages on combat and equipment for combat. And using fists and energy blasts to excise evil in a game about playing comic book heroes is keeping with the theme. As a rule, I try for one social/comedy/book keeping session for every three action sessions. Back in the 90s we played high social games, Vampire the mask mostly, I know and I feel bad about it. Palladium doesn't feel like it rolls as well in the social space. But if you're having fun, great.

I really don't see how HSoA is a power with 'fewer aplications'
It gets a bonus to Initiative, Roll with F/P/I, Horror Factor doesn't usually suffer from surprise and then as Icing gets Automatic Dodge (this being one of a handful of powers that provide Automatic dodge. For Minor Powers there are exactly AFAIK 4 powers that grant this: Hightened Sense of Awareness, Lightning Reflexes, Ex PP, and Ex-Spd)
So its already pretty swanky. Why in the world do I need to top this and grant them one of the powers from Danger Sense (can not ever be surprised). Let alone grant them a class feature of a different Power Category (Always gets a defense against all attacks is a Juicer/Chemical Enhancement Super Soldier perk)

Fewer applications as compared to something like increased durability, healing factor or hardened skin. Besides, we've migrated a bit from the original discussion. I'd grant continuing active defense under fire from our ricocheting weapons engineer to Danger Sense, Heightened awareness and sixth sense characters.

Besides, Auto dodge isn't all that and a bag of chips, but that's a different discussion.

By this logic then there is no such thing as RAW since anyones house rules should be considered canon since they are just unwritten addenda to Rule Zero.
So no...it is not RAW it is in RAHR(0).
To be Rules As Written it needs to be, you know, As Written In The Rule Book.

But that rule is in the rule book. We don't differ much on this, and this is a rather fine point. Your position is based on a very literal reading, I'm taking a broader view. The player could have picked up a bunch of powers that would have had other benefits, some of them with continuous use abilities. I don't want the players to be eating damage they can't use their powers, feeling like they should have picked something else on such a finite point.

[eliakon]

I think that the first part of this paragraph has nothing to do with the second part.
Being part of the story has nothing at all to do with being in a fight someplace and not being able to immediately use all of their powers.
Some times you don't get to be the star.

Always keeping the players involved in the story. The players are the stars, the opposition are set pieces.

True, but some times the other players get to shine. Not every situation will showcase every ability of every player. So yeah, sometimes its not Joes time to be a star, Bob, or Jill, or someone else gets some limelight on their cool power/skill/gizmo/spell/whatever that saves the day in this fight or that scene or whatever.

Yep, GM needs to cater to all the players.....
....which I don't think involves "lets give some guy extra powers" ESPECIALLY since this is unfair to the guy who does take the power.
Why should Joe with his Heightened Sense of Awareness get to get all his powers PLUS the perk that Bob over here had to take the Danger Sense power for?
If Joe wanted the perks from Danger Sense then they should buy Danger Sense, not complain that the power they did take isn't getting a different powers perks.

Palladium's way with words. "Almost never" is tricky wording. Able to maintain his defensive action in the gun fight we're talking about, but Joe's husband is able to throw the most epic surprise party ever would meet that description. With in the context of the basic situation, a player character could reasonably argue that given s/he is under fire, wide eyed and ready for a fight, with super human abilities, this defensive roll should still count. Doesn't seem like a big give to me to rule in the PC's favor.

It would seem pretty big if your Bob who took Danger Sense specifically so he can never be surprised if Joe gets to have the same ability as a freebie.

Yep, so if you want a specific ability find a power that grants it and take it....
I would also say that these are not at all in anyway "basically the same adventure". And in fact I would say that the GM and Players should be talking before the game starts so that they can know what is expected. If your going to be doing high society adventures then Feral combat wombats, chromed out war-borgs and 30' combat mecha are not going to be usefull.....but if your going to be doing a lot of gritty street level work against the gangs then it would be unfair to not let the player know that spending two skill packages on social skills and fine arts are going to be basically wasted.....

Hehe, see I'd expect my PC to figure it out. I run adventures that run the gambit. Combat-wombat. You're a poet.

I wish I could take credit for it, but I have seen it used here before. I just loved it enough to use it myself.
But yeah, while games can run a whole range of things...if they are not going to be all over the place, or tailored to the group then the group should know in advance. It just seems mean to let a group make a super team that is obviously set up for one thing...and then not only never give that to them, but make it so that in doing so they have crippled themselves for the actual game.

More or less. Although I disagree strongly that it is "an important part of the system and your build". Though I guess some people just build characters around combat I am not convinced that this is, or should ever be considered, 'the right way of playing'. I have been in entire campaigns where there was never a single combat. The current Rifts game I am in now, has been going for close to two years....and has had a total of five battles.

Palladium has spent a lot of pages on combat and equipment for combat. And using fists and energy blasts to excise evil in a game about playing comic book heroes is keeping with the theme. As a rule, I try for one social/comedy/book keeping session for every three action sessions. Back in the 90s we played high social games, Vampire the mask mostly, I know and I feel bad about it. Palladium doesn't feel like it rolls as well in the social space. But if you're having fun, great.

Nice thing about gaming...different groups can enjoy it differently and (usually) not be compelled to burn the others at the stake for their heretical beliefs.

I really don't see how HSoA is a power with 'fewer aplications'
It gets a bonus to Initiative, Roll with F/P/I, Horror Factor doesn't usually suffer from surprise and then as Icing gets Automatic Dodge (this being one of a handful of powers that provide Automatic dodge. For Minor Powers there are exactly AFAIK 4 powers that grant this: Hightened Sense of Awareness, Lightning Reflexes, Ex PP, and Ex-Spd)
So its already pretty swanky. Why in the world do I need to top this and grant them one of the powers from Danger Sense (can not ever be surprised). Let alone grant them a class feature of a different Power Category (Always gets a defense against all attacks is a Juicer/Chemical Enhancement Super Soldier perk)

Fewer applications as compared to something like increased durability, healing factor or hardened skin. Besides, we've migrated a bit from the original discussion. I'd grant continuing active defense under fire from our ricocheting weapons engineer to Danger Sense, Heightened awareness and sixth sense characters.

I would certainly give it to the guy with Danger Sense. Personally I would make the HSoA guy make a perception roll, and if it was the first attack I would let the 6th sense guy do it, otherwise no dice for him (Psionic characters usually have a lot more power options than supers and thus 6th Sense is pretty common among them, I would be loathe to negate one of the class features of one power category for pretty much any psychic).

Besides, Auto dodge isn't all that and a bag of chips, but that's a different discussion.

Yeah, lets save that for when we all are cold and have our asbestos keyboards (That thread always seems to degenerate rapidly....)

[The Artist Formerly]

True, but some times the other players get to shine. Not every situation will showcase every ability of every player. So yeah, sometimes its not Joes time to be a star, Bob, or Jill, or someone else gets some limelight on their cool power/skill/gizmo/spell/whatever that saves the day in this fight or that scene or whatever.

PC eating damage they can't respond to isn't going to play out well. Especially if they spent a power on something like that.

It would seem pretty big if your Bob who took Danger Sense specifically so he can never be surprised if Joe gets to have the same ability as a freebie.

It's never happened in play, and I can't see it being an issue. I tend to have broad interpretations for all the powers. My group, can't see that being an issue.

I wish I could take credit for it, but I have seen it used here before. I just loved it enough to use it myself.
But yeah, while games can run a whole range of things...if they are not going to be all over the place, or tailored to the group then the group should know in advance. It just seems mean to let a group make a super team that is obviously set up for one thing...and then not only never give that to them, but make it so that in doing so they have crippled themselves for the actual game.

Shouldn't have told me, I'd have never known.

Anyway. Making the PCs who are geared for A dance a dance for B is awesome. We end up all kinds of memorable instances. Had to get Mecha out of York in a game of Robotech. Went under cover as a chef. A player had to go under cover as a bar tender at a anarchist bar, had no idea what he was doing, so he started making up his own drinks, blind folded. When stuff goes according to your character's build, that's good planning. When you have to make it up to adapt to the game, that's role playing.

Nice thing about gaming...different groups can enjoy it differently and (usually) not be compelled to burn the others at the stake for their heretical beliefs.

Neat.

I would certainly give it to the guy with Danger Sense. Personally I would make the HSoA guy make a perception roll, and if it was the first attack I would let the 6th sense guy do it, otherwise no dice for him (Psionic characters usually have a lot more power options than supers and thus 6th Sense is pretty common among them, I would be loathe to negate one of the class features of one power category for pretty much any psychic).

Alright. Clearly, I'd go bigger.

Yeah, lets save that for when we all are cold and have our asbestos keyboards (That thread always seems to degenerate rapidly....)

Alright.