Marines sourcebook

[Chris0013]

I think HG just needs to retool the Sentinel Races. They did do away with the mushroom horns for the Kabbarens which was nice (make them a little less 80's aliens which was really never my thing, 90's kid here). They need to have a better explanation for the Perytonians in regards to their "magic", maybe more of a psychic thing than magic. Praxians are good as is, through they should really address why there are humans in other parts of the galaxy (never read the novel's so bare with me). Garudan's are good as is, the Hin as psychic power is still good, though the future sight should be more ambiguous and more off of possibility relating to the current situation, not a solid fact that it will happen. Spherian is neat, sentient virus can work, but don't make them uber, why not have a cluster of them be a "brain" so that there is a way to off them without smashing them to dust (think the core in those guyver suits, or any anime with "cores").

As for the equipment and things, I really like the helmet for M3-09 "C" but not "D". Maybe use "B" or come up with another design. Rooks helmet might fit the bill. Make some slight changes for CVR-1 and probably explain that CVR-2 was a different design team/manufacturer.

Can't really figure out the other pic's. I have the IMA files (didn't know what they where when I got them off of some tumblr sights, just that they where concept/per-perduction art) and the only ones marked where to say type "A-D" or this is a human transport.

Pleas for the love that is Robotech re-design the Destroids.

I think the "B" Helmet is supposed to be the "Commander" helmet.

[Chris0013]

So I got the raw preview a few days ago. All in all I don't think its bad. being able to see the book in raw form will allow us to see how much HG butchers the manuscripts PB sends to them.

The book is really centered around the early to mid years of the UEEF from circa 2015 to 2035 (while the TSC book looks at the UEEF from 2035 onward). I like this because it gives GM's material to use as the UEEF begins it's mission. Realistically small scout flotilla's would have been sent out prior to the majority of the UEEF leaving Earth.

I do like the fact that we have VR-010 and VR-020 series Cyclones. It gives us something for UEEF personnel sent back to Earth during the 2nd RT war to fight with other then the stuff in the TSC book. The different helmets are a cool idea (something I implemented a long time ago). The rest of the designs used from the imai files are great additions.

The Sentinel races are as pointed out mostly based on what we see in the novels. But I don't think that's a bad thing because other then Robotech Art 3: The Sentinels and the novels we don't have cold hard facts regarding the Sentinel races as they were originally envisioned to be. The RCC's for the Sentinels are pretty good, and I like the fact they can select UEEF OCC's.

The Destriods and GMU appear to be 2nd edition upgrades. I think what we see in the book is decent.

The Marine OCC's are meh, but that's because I've put together more plausible OCC's for all three Robotech era's that have many more MOS selections and are more realistic from a military point of view.

Seems like a lot of contradictory info between TSC and this book.

[Chronicler]

They did do away with the mushroom horns for the Kabbarens which was nice (make them a little less 80's aliens which was really never my thing, 90's kid here).

Jackson's description in the text makes them look like the 80's comics version, and ignored the Prelude version.

They need to have a better explanation for the Perytonians in regards to their "magic", maybe more of a psychic thing than magic.

adding Leylines and Rifts to Robotech is not needed... that entire section needs to be re-tooled.

Praxians are good as is, through they should really address why there are humans in other parts of the galaxy (never read the novel's so bare with me).

The Paraxians being only 3 pts weaker than the Bear-men in PS bothers me... being a meter shorter and several hundred pountd lighter, even the Augment PS the Karbarans have isn't sufficient to make up for the fact they can carry nearly the same weight.

Didn't look over stats for the Paraxians or any other stats for that matter, I just wanted to see what they did for the book in terms of what fluff they used and what they added from the pre-production art. Also nice of you to have that link in your sig. that helped.

[Lt Gargoyle]

So I got the raw preview a few days ago. All in all I don't think its bad. being able to see the book in raw form will allow us to see how much HG butchers the manuscripts PB sends to them.

The book is really centered around the early to mid years of the UEEF from circa 2015 to 2035 (while the TSC book looks at the UEEF from 2035 onward). I like this because it gives GM's material to use as the UEEF begins it's mission. Realistically small scout flotilla's would have been sent out prior to the majority of the UEEF leaving Earth.

I do like the fact that we have VR-010 and VR-020 series Cyclones. It gives us something for UEEF personnel sent back to Earth during the 2nd RT war to fight with other then the stuff in the TSC book. The different helmets are a cool idea (something I implemented a long time ago). The rest of the designs used from the imai files are great additions.

The Sentinel races are as pointed out mostly based on what we see in the novels. But I don't think that's a bad thing because other then Robotech Art 3: The Sentinels and the novels we don't have cold hard facts regarding the Sentinel races as they were originally envisioned to be. The RCC's for the Sentinels are pretty good, and I like the fact they can select UEEF OCC's.

The Destriods and GMU appear to be 2nd edition upgrades. I think what we see in the book is decent.

The Marine OCC's are meh, but that's because I've put together more plausible OCC's for all three Robotech era's that have many more MOS selections and are more realistic from a military point of view.

Seems like a lot of contradictory info between TSC and this book.

to be honest i do not see the marines in TSC to be valid anymore, since to me the new marine book basically takes the mos packages from the TSC book and turned them into the new classes.

[Tiree]

to be honest i do not see the marines in TSC to be valid anymore, since to me the new marine book basically takes the mos packages from the TSC book and turned them into the new classes.

This is my problem since Irvin started writing Robotech.

[jedi078]

What needs to be done is a complete revamping of the OCC's, and have specific OCC for each era of Robotech. None of this: "Use the OCC's in TSC for Macross era characters".

[Tiree]

I somewhat agree Jedi078, but it should encompass a small set of OCC's and MOS's.

Now I personally agree with what they did 'One set of OCC's' to rule them all. But the OCC's in TSC are not generic enough to fit all the era's.

They should have one set of generic OCC's: VF Pilot, Battloid Pilot, Grunt, Technical, and I'm sure I'm missing a few more. Then toss on MOS's to be specific to the Era (Macross Valkyrie Pilot, Masters TASC Pilot, UEEF Alpha Pilot, etc...)

Then provide options that allow you to add on additional MOS's as time goes on.

[Chronicler]

So I got the raw preview a few days ago. All in all I don't think its bad. being able to see the book in raw form will allow us to see how much HG butchers the manuscripts PB sends to them.

The book is really centered around the early to mid years of the UEEF from circa 2015 to 2035 (while the TSC book looks at the UEEF from 2035 onward). I like this because it gives GM's material to use as the UEEF begins it's mission. Realistically small scout flotilla's would have been sent out prior to the majority of the UEEF leaving Earth.

I do like the fact that we have VR-010 and VR-020 series Cyclones. It gives us something for UEEF personnel sent back to Earth during the 2nd RT war to fight with other then the stuff in the TSC book. The different helmets are a cool idea (something I implemented a long time ago). The rest of the designs used from the imai files are great additions.

The Sentinel races are as pointed out mostly based on what we see in the novels. But I don't think that's a bad thing because other then Robotech Art 3: The Sentinels and the novels we don't have cold hard facts regarding the Sentinel races as they were originally envisioned to be. The RCC's for the Sentinels are pretty good, and I like the fact they can select UEEF OCC's.

The Destriods and GMU appear to be 2nd edition upgrades. I think what we see in the book is decent.

The Marine OCC's are meh, but that's because I've put together more plausible OCC's for all three Robotech era's that have many more MOS selections and are more realistic from a military point of view.

Seems like a lot of contradictory info between TSC and this book.

to be honest i do not see the marines in TSC to be valid anymore, since to me the new marine book basically takes the mos packages from the TSC book and turned them into the new classes.

I would view the TSC stuff as Fleet/Army now, just ditch the Marine M.O.S.

[Kagashi]

So I got the raw preview a few days ago. All in all I don't think its bad. being able to see the book in raw form will allow us to see how much HG butchers the manuscripts PB sends to them.

The book is really centered around the early to mid years of the UEEF from circa 2015 to 2035 (while the TSC book looks at the UEEF from 2035 onward). I like this because it gives GM's material to use as the UEEF begins it's mission. Realistically small scout flotilla's would have been sent out prior to the majority of the UEEF leaving Earth.

I do like the fact that we have VR-010 and VR-020 series Cyclones. It gives us something for UEEF personnel sent back to Earth during the 2nd RT war to fight with other then the stuff in the TSC book. The different helmets are a cool idea (something I implemented a long time ago). The rest of the designs used from the imai files are great additions.

The Sentinel races are as pointed out mostly based on what we see in the novels. But I don't think that's a bad thing because other then Robotech Art 3: The Sentinels and the novels we don't have cold hard facts regarding the Sentinel races as they were originally envisioned to be. The RCC's for the Sentinels are pretty good, and I like the fact they can select UEEF OCC's.

The Destriods and GMU appear to be 2nd edition upgrades. I think what we see in the book is decent.

The Marine OCC's are meh, but that's because I've put together more plausible OCC's for all three Robotech era's that have many more MOS selections and are more realistic from a military point of view.

Seems like a lot of contradictory info between TSC and this book.

to be honest i do not see the marines in TSC to be valid anymore, since to me the new marine book basically takes the mos packages from the TSC book and turned them into the new classes.

I would view the TSC stuff as Fleet/Army now, just ditch the Marine M.O.S.

We are talking about a twenty year span between the two different Marine OCCs. That would be like equating a Marine from Desert Storm and a Marine today. Sure, they have the same MOS, but they have very different jobs for two very different wars.

I still dont have my book though, so Ill reserve my official opinion when I see the submission.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Didn't look over stats for the Paraxians or any other stats for that matter, I just wanted to see what they did for the book in terms of what fluff they used and what they added from the pre-production art. Also nice of you to have that link in your sig. that helped.

I anxiously await the email asking me to take it down, but until then, I'll work on getting it more complete and the images cleaned up as I can.

[Chris0013]

Didn't look over stats for the Paraxians or any other stats for that matter, I just wanted to see what they did for the book in terms of what fluff they used and what they added from the pre-production art. Also nice of you to have that link in your sig. that helped.

I anxiously await the email asking me to take it down, but until then, I'll work on getting it more complete and the images cleaned up as I can.

Thanks from me as well.

here is hoping we get some extrapolations on different angles in the final art.

[Jerell]

So I got the raw preview a few days ago. All in all I don't think its bad. being able to see the book in raw form will allow us to see how much HG butchers the manuscripts PB sends to them.

The book is really centered around the early to mid years of the UEEF from circa 2015 to 2035 (while the TSC book looks at the UEEF from 2035 onward). I like this because it gives GM's material to use as the UEEF begins it's mission. Realistically small scout flotilla's would have been sent out prior to the majority of the UEEF leaving Earth.

I do like the fact that we have VR-010 and VR-020 series Cyclones. It gives us something for UEEF personnel sent back to Earth during the 2nd RT war to fight with other then the stuff in the TSC book. The different helmets are a cool idea (something I implemented a long time ago). The rest of the designs used from the imai files are great additions.

The Sentinel races are as pointed out mostly based on what we see in the novels. But I don't think that's a bad thing because other then Robotech Art 3: The Sentinels and the novels we don't have cold hard facts regarding the Sentinel races as they were originally envisioned to be. The RCC's for the Sentinels are pretty good, and I like the fact they can select UEEF OCC's.

The Destriods and GMU appear to be 2nd edition upgrades. I think what we see in the book is decent.

The Marine OCC's are meh, but that's because I've put together more plausible OCC's for all three Robotech era's that have many more MOS selections and are more realistic from a military point of view.

Seems like a lot of contradictory info between TSC and this book.

to be honest i do not see the marines in TSC to be valid anymore, since to me the new marine book basically takes the mos packages from the TSC book and turned them into the new classes.

I would view the TSC stuff as Fleet/Army now, just ditch the Marine M.O.S.

I'm still not convinced that a whole separate Marine branch is necessary in Robotech. I understand it's popular in SF due to things like Aliens and 40k, but I don't see why UEDF/UEEF couldn't just have the Zentraedi, destroid pilots, and infantry all just a member of general umbrella UEEF. Adding the term Marines to Robotech seems like just an attempt to cash in on the popularity of the word, which I guess I can't fault as business practice...

[Colonel Wolfe]

I'm still not convinced that a whole separate Marine branch is necessary in Robotech.

its not, but the book seams to have made it the Zentradi contingent in the REF named themselves Marines, and command let them pretend to be marines.

Adding the term Marines to Robotech seems like just an attempt to cash in on the popularity of the word, which I guess I can't fault as business practice...

<- its a combination of lack of imagination and "rule of cool" making an inbred functionally disabled mutant child.

[Chris0013]

maybe Palladium needs to do this Raw thing on all books going forward....get a limited number of copies out there and let ups proof them to deal with any grammatical errors / confusing stats before the final book is printed.

[Colonel Wolfe]

maybe Palladium needs to do this Raw thing on all books going forward....get a limited number of copies out there and let ups proof them to deal with any grammatical errors / confusing stats before the final book is printed.

This is like a Million peso idea...

[glitterboy2098]

Catalyst games does something like that for battle tech and shadow run. They release pdf's first, and use the fan feedback and proofreading to fix mistakes before printing the physical copy

[eliakon]

I'm still not convinced that a whole separate Marine branch is necessary in Robotech.

its not, but the book seams to have made it the Zentradi contingent in the REF named themselves Marines, and command let them pretend to be marines.

Adding the term Marines to Robotech seems like just an attempt to cash in on the popularity of the word, which I guess I can't fault as business practice...

<- its a combination of lack of imagination and "rule of cool" making an inbred functionally disabled mutant child.

I think that they are Marines because.....they are marines.
They are the fighting soldiers of a Naval branch, based on Navy ships, transported to battle on those Navy ships and ultimately subordinate to Naval commanders.
They are pretty much the text book definition of Marines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marines

[Lt Gargoyle]

I'm still not convinced that a whole separate Marine branch is necessary in Robotech.

its not, but the book seams to have made it the Zentradi contingent in the REF named themselves Marines, and command let them pretend to be marines.

Adding the term Marines to Robotech seems like just an attempt to cash in on the popularity of the word, which I guess I can't fault as business practice...

<- its a combination of lack of imagination and "rule of cool" making an inbred functionally disabled mutant child.

I think that they are Marines because.....they are marines.
They are the fighting soldiers of a Naval branch, based on Navy ships, transported to battle on those Navy ships and ultimately subordinate to Naval commanders.
They are pretty much the text book definition of Marines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marines

this is how I see and use them in my games.

[Lt Gargoyle]

maybe Palladium needs to do this Raw thing on all books going forward....get a limited number of copies out there and let ups proof them to deal with any grammatical errors / confusing stats before the final book is printed.

This is like a Million peso idea...

I will get each of them as soon as they are announced.

Also thanks for the link. That was very helpful.

[Lt Gargoyle]

We are talking about a twenty year span between the two different Marine OCCs. That would be like equating a Marine from Desert Storm and a Marine today. Sure, they have the same MOS, but they have very different jobs for two very different wars.

I still dont have my book though, so Ill reserve my official opinion when I see the submission.

I mean they literally took the MOS skills and made them the Marine OCC skills and made the new Marine OCCs. I do not see anything wrong with it. As it opens them up to be even more versatile.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Space =\= ocean.
Marine even means related to ocean. Dolphins the marine mammals.
So I don't see zents pretending to be US marines being real marines. Being they are space bound, not ocean.
The book even says that they chose the name because bretia reading a history book.

[Colonel Wolfe]

And the series is pretty clear, the fighting branch of the ref is the army. Scott refers to himself and others as soldiers. Not Marines, not sailors, not airman.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

This book is in serious need of revision. I question a number of the choices, especially the various IMAI mecha being made REF mecha. This despite the fact that there are STILL mecha that haven't been catalogued for the RPG (all of which would be in service at this point):

- Wolfe's fighter from the Eulogy flashback (and may even be a Veritech)
- Point K Fighter from Enter Marlene (which may or may not be Wolfe's fighter)
- Liberte Fighter from Outsiders
- VTOL Veritech Recce/ELINT (from Robotech Art 3, mentioned in The Sentinels scripts and made into the Delta Veritech by Jason/John Waltrip)
- YF-4/VF-4 Veritech, which would be a low-production model that would have traveled with the REF (Its in Tactics, why not the RPG?)
- VF-Jotunn Armor (again, its in Tactics, why not the RPG?)
- Prototype Cyclone (from Robotech Art 3) which should replace all the VR-020 series. The VR-010 series is superflous and is simply reinventing the wheel.
- The "Survival Bike" we see in various MOSPEADA episodes should be in this book as the precursor model to the MOSPEADAs.
- Colonel Wolfe's body armor from the Eulogy flashback
- The Alpha drones from The Secret Route
- The ships from SDC: Southern Cross other than the Tristars (they are all used by the REF since we know TS 85 had them).
- The "smaller" Ikazuchi-type ships labeled as the IZUM-10 series (Matt Willis even did renders of them for the uRRG).

There are numerous problems with the various other mecha such as the Golem, which immediately runs into the problem of being named the exact same as the GMP's APB-4 Golem Autonomous Patrol Battloid. In fact, the design of the Golem clearly evolved into both the semi-variable Jackal and transformable Condor. In fact, why bother with the Golem at all? Split the difference: make the shoulder packs, outboard leg pods and the forearm weapon/shields the equivalent of the Jotunn Armor, but for the Condor. In fact, the Condor needs to be made into a fully realized Veritech as was stated in the Wildstorm Invasion comics.

The Daniel and the Valiant simply don't belong. The latter, especially, because its far too reminiscent of the MegaZone 23 Part 1 mecha that are no longer canon for Robotech.

As others have said, The Sentinels races are a throwback and not in a good way. The Karbarrans that Tommy redesigned for Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles is what we should expect. They should be encountered only AFTER the Invid Invasion. The most believable way to deal with Perytonian "magic" is that it isn't magic at all: its nanotechnology/cybertechnology that is incredibly advanced (maybe even to the point the Perytonians don't fully understand it, but can replicate it). The Curse/Infernal War is not "raising the dead through necromancy", its nanites rebuilding the fighters to fight again. The Perytonians could still have "spells" in that they have technology that cannot be explained that produces "magical" effects (yes, even a short-range personal spacefold since we see the Tirolians have something similar inside their City-ships).

There is, quite simply, NO REASON for the REF to have found Tirol before the Invid Invasion (considering it happened literally the day after Zor Prime killed The Masters). There is also no reason for the REF to have fought the Invid prior to The Invid Invasion. To claim otherwise flies in the face of quite a bit of dialogue and totally upends the entire middle chapter of Robotech.

Its nice that the REF Destroids and Z-series Battlepods are back. The non-transformable Power Amplified Body Armor was good, though it should interface with CVR-3 only (and there is NO REASON for it to be issued to non-combatants. Why would non-combatants be trained in the use of infantry powered armor?).

The Tirolian weapons not only are STILL missing, but the "Bioroid Bazooka" from The Sentinels video isn't even listed.

There are still enemies for the REF to fight in deep space without making them Bioroids or Invid prior to the Invid attacking Earth. We hear tell of "Space Pirates". There would be around 1.8 million surviving Zentraedi warships after Force of Arms that are unaccounted for and may be potential enemies. The ship that is shown exploding in the Eulogy flashback video is supposedly one of the "enemies" encountered. Here's a wild idea: do these guys! Do rogue Zentraedi scattered throughout the galaxy. Do the crumbling remains of the Tirolian Empire, minus Bioroids. Hell, why not The Children of Zor that was proposed for the cockamamie Robotech: Academy Kickstarter?

That's all I can think of at the moment....

[Chronicler]

This book is in serious need of revision. I question a number of the choices, especially the various IMAI mecha being made REF mecha. This despite the fact that there are STILL mecha that haven't been catalogued for the RPG (all of which would be in service at this point):

- Wolfe's fighter from the Eulogy flashback (and may even be a Veritech)
- Point K Fighter from Enter Marlene (which may or may not be Wolfe's fighter)
- Liberte Fighter from Outsiders
- VTOL Veritech Recce/ELINT (from Robotech Art 3, mentioned in The Sentinels scripts and made into the Delta Veritech by Jason/John Waltrip)
- YF-4/VF-4 Veritech, which would be a low-production model that would have traveled with the REF (Its in Tactics, why not the RPG?)
- VF-Jotunn Armor (again, its in Tactics, why not the RPG?)
- Prototype Cyclone (from Robotech Art 3) which should replace all the VR-020 series. The VR-010 series is superflous and is simply reinventing the wheel.
- The "Survival Bike" we see in various MOSPEADA episodes should be in this book as the precursor model to the MOSPEADAs.
- Colonel Wolfe's body armor from the Eulogy flashback
- The Alpha drones from The Secret Route
- The ships from SDC: Southern Cross other than the Tristars (they are all used by the REF since we know TS 85 had them).
- The "smaller" Ikazuchi-type ships labeled as the IZUM-10 series (Matt Willis even did renders of them for the uRRG).

There are numerous problems with the various other mecha such as the Golem, which immediately runs into the problem of being named the exact same as the GMP's APB-4 Golem Autonomous Patrol Battloid. In fact, the design of the Golem clearly evolved into both the semi-variable Jackal and transformable Condor. In fact, why bother with the Golem at all? Split the difference: make the shoulder packs, outboard leg pods and the forearm weapon/shields the equivalent of the Jotunn Armor, but for the Condor. In fact, the Condor needs to be made into a fully realized Veritech as was stated in the Wildstorm Invasion comics.

The Daniel and the Valiant simply don't belong. The latter, especially, because its far too reminiscent of the MegaZone 23 Part 1 mecha that are no longer canon for Robotech.

As others have said, The Sentinels races are a throwback and not in a good way. The Karbarrans that Tommy redesigned for Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles is what we should expect. They should be encountered only AFTER the Invid Invasion. The most believable way to deal with Perytonian "magic" is that it isn't magic at all: its nanotechnology/cybertechnology that is incredibly advanced (maybe even to the point the Perytonians don't fully understand it, but can replicate it). The Curse/Infernal War is not "raising the dead through necromancy", its nanites rebuilding the fighters to fight again. The Perytonians could still have "spells" in that they have technology that cannot be explained that produces "magical" effects (yes, even a short-range personal spacefold since we see the Tirolians have something similar inside their City-ships).

There is, quite simply, NO REASON for the REF to have found Tirol before the Invid Invasion (considering it happened literally the day after Zor Prime killed The Masters). There is also no reason for the REF to have fought the Invid prior to The Invid Invasion. To claim otherwise flies in the face of quite a bit of dialogue and totally upends the entire middle chapter of Robotech.

Its nice that the REF Destroids and Z-series Battlepods are back. The non-transformable Power Amplified Body Armor was good, though it should interface with CVR-3 only (and there is NO REASON for it to be issued to non-combatants. Why would non-combatants be trained in the use of infantry powered armor?).

The Tirolian weapons not only are STILL missing, but the "Bioroid Bazooka" from The Sentinels video isn't even listed.

There are still enemies for the REF to fight in deep space without making them Bioroids or Invid prior to the Invid attacking Earth. We hear tell of "Space Pirates". There would be around 1.8 million surviving Zentraedi warships after Force of Arms that are unaccounted for and may be potential enemies. The ship that is shown exploding in the Eulogy flashback video is supposedly one of the "enemies" encountered. Here's a wild idea: do these guys! Do rogue Zentraedi scattered throughout the galaxy. Do the crumbling remains of the Tirolian Empire, minus Bioroids. Hell, why not The Children of Zor that was proposed for the cockamamie Robotech: Academy Kickstarter?

That's all I can think of at the moment....

^This, though I still think Perytonians could be psychic/psychokinetic, but that can still be mixed with tech. The Nanites as a reason for the wars can be a good one, keep the fighters alive even if they get blown to chunks (we see it in the Terminator trailers and Deadpool can take a hit like that though his is biological).

[ShadowLogan]

I think we all have to keep in mind that this is the RAW version of the book (don't have it). This is supposed to be the pre-KS editing version before it even goes off to HG for approval. So changes are likely I think. This is even said in the store page, so we have KS changes (editing) occurring, and likely what ever changes HG might send back.

- The "Survival Bike" we see in various MOSPEADA episodes should be in this book as the precursor model to the MOSPEADAs.

Maybe we are thinking of different units, but wasn't this unit already covered in the NG SB as the MR-40 (pg53)?

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Maybe we are thinking of different units, but wasn't this unit already covered in the NG SB as the MR-40 (pg53)?

Ah, you're right. Sorry, my bad!

[mech798]

I think we all have to keep in mind that this is the RAW version of the book (don't have it). This is supposed to be the pre-KS editing version before it even goes off to HG for approval. So changes are likely I think. This is even said in the store page, so we have KS changes (editing) occurring, and likely what ever changes HG might send back.

Be blunt, that's really starting to lose credibility with me. Or to put it differently, Exalted 3E, which involved a complete tear down and rewrite of the core rules systems looks to be getting out before the marines sourcebook which involves one of those things, and was also promised long before exalted 3E was even thought of. I mean, we're talking about a book that is mostly interior line drawings with a single color cover, vs. books that have full internal color art spreads by major artists. There is no area where this book should be produced this slowly, or where it should hare so many issues with background material.

It's got no ships, redos of old mecha, and not a lot of new stuff that wasn't in the IMAI files, and of course rather annoying to me, a throwback to the It's maaaaaggggiiiiccc with the various spells, which honestly could and should have been jettisoned like a hot potato. Robotech is not Rifts.

Sad to say, but this thread has more or less sold me off the book because there's not much in it for me.

[eliakon]

For all the people complaining that it is taking to long and is bad.....
You are welcome to write a good, full length source book. Please note that it needs to meet all the specifications that are harped on in this thread (It must be perfectly balanced, it must fit all canon, it must fill all headcanon it must be fun, it must be error free, etc) I will of course expect this to be done rapidly since this is an easy task. You can then submit it for approval....
Let me know how that turns out.

[Chris0013]

Since what we are getting is pre-Invid Invasion mecha...would liked to have seen an early model Alpha...maybe labeled a VF/A-6C....but is down to maybe 30 missiles in the legs and shoulders.

[Colonel Wolfe]

You can then submit it for approval....
Let me know how that turns out.

being Alex and Kevin have both confirmed that Robotech books are not something they accept via submission... and they have to assign the projects they want done... being snarky about the honest criticisms of the book can't be answered with "if you don't like it, write one yourself"- as they won't let you.
Palladium & HG don't even want us to post RPG stats for Robotech stuff because they are worried about someone doing a better job then they are.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Since what we are getting is pre-Invid Invasion mecha...would liked to have seen an early model Alpha...maybe labeled a VF/A-6C....but is down to maybe 30 missiles in the legs and shoulders.

by canon, the Alpha was being developed in ~2015, I'd like to see early versions as well. one's with maybe 75% armor across the board, 60-pointblank/mini missiles instead of SRM's. the VB-7 Non-transformable Booster/Bomber.

[eliakon]

You can then submit it for approval....
Let me know how that turns out.

being Alex and Kevin have both confirmed that Robotech books are not something they accept via submission... and they have to assign the projects they want done... being snarky about the honest criticisms of the book can't be answered with "if you don't like it, write one yourself"- as they won't let you.
Palladium & HG don't even want us to post RPG stats for Robotech stuff because they are worried about someone doing a better job then they are.

Actually they don't want us to post them because it dilutes their copyright.

But the point stands...I find it deeply amusing that the people who complain the most are not published writers....
Its easy to say "write it faster, and better" its really, really hard to actually do that. Especially when you have two parties involved (Palladium and HG) who both have to approve each change and idea....

Complaining that a book is taking a long time though isn't an 'honest criticism' of a book. Its complaining that someone is not doing something as fast as you would like. Honest criticism is when someone points out actual flaws (such as a translator credit being dropped). Its not honest criticism when someone says "I don't like the version of the alien used, because it doesn't fit my headcanon". If HG approves it and says that this is how it works then guess what....that is how the canon of it works....

(Fair use statement. I have little patience for fans who claim that they should set canon rather than the actual IP holders/creators.)

[Colonel Wolfe]

]But the point stands...I find it deeply amusing that the people who complain the most are not published writers....

so the Litmus test to have a complaint or opinion is being an elite member of the published nobility? the members of the customer-proletariat should just shut up and be thankful they get anything from our kind overlords...

Its easy to say "write it faster, and better" its really, really hard to actually do that. Especially when you have two parties involved (Palladium and HG) who both have to approve each change and idea....

The issues isn't write faster, I stopped posting here for nearly a year, and before that Kevin had posted he had a completed manuscript in hand for the book... Writing is done, has been done... the bottle-neck effect of being a 1 man show is reason for the delays/ as well as any delays on HG's part. The book has only been delayed 27 times in 6 years.... May 29 2014: the book was completed enough he had it slated for a summer release... earlier than that he was assigning art and getting text approvals from HG...

Its not honest criticism when someone says "I don't like the version of the alien used, because it doesn't fit my headcanon". If HG approves it and says that this is how it works then guess what....that is how the canon of it works....

except, my problem has been with the Carebearans being reverted back to their 80's design when the Current Creative director at Harmony Gold redesigned them in Prelude.... "Mushroom-eared care-Bear-persons" has been out of canon for the over a decade.

(Fair use statement. I have little patience for fans who claim that they should set canon rather than the actual IP holders/creators.)

When this is being published as a version of the book that HG has not vetted for Canon-accuracy yet... I'm not setting canon when I'm pointing out that is disagrees with the IP holder's current canon.... HG sets canon, not Irvine Jackson, not Kevin Sembedia, Not Shojimbo Kawamorn.

[mech798]

Actually, I am a published author. Both science fiction, academic work and opinion and viewpoint articles in newspapers.

And the problem I have is that this thing took far longer than a major thesis on the slave trade that involved the following:

1. Crawling through the archives of Parliament.
2. Getting access to the private papers of William Pitt and Thomas Clarkson.
3. Referencing and cross-referencing other secondary material that was big enough to fill up a 20 page biography.


Or heck, look at Paizo publishing or Dreamscarred press. Occult handbook was first announced Oct 28, 2014 with the page being set up. Release date, July 29, 2015. That's a three hundred page book and I'd be very surprised if Paizo blows their deadline because it's a big deal when they do.

That's the problem I have-- I was hoping for something out that was pretty much the final pre-layout version and it looks very much like everyone got a first draft that hasn't even been reviewed. That's pretty bad.

[eliakon]

]But the point stands...I find it deeply amusing that the people who complain the most are not published writers....

so the Litmus test to have a complaint or opinion is being an elite member of the published nobility? the members of the customer-proletariat should just shut up and be thankful they get anything from our kind overlords...

No. But people should not ask for the impossible (or things that they themselves could not do) and then disparage those who actually try to do the work.

Its easy to say "write it faster, and better" its really, really hard to actually do that. Especially when you have two parties involved (Palladium and HG) who both have to approve each change and idea....

The issues isn't write faster, I stopped posting here for nearly a year, and before that Kevin had posted he had a completed manuscript in hand for the book...

A manuscript that, as I understand it ended up needing to be re-written (again)..

Writing is done, has been done... the bottle-neck effect of being a 1 man show is reason for the delays/ as well as any delays on HG's part. The book has only been delayed 27 times in 6 years.... May 29 2014: the book was completed enough he had it slated for a summer release... earlier than that he was assigning art and getting text approvals from HG...

If you really think that the 'coming soon' release dates are viable I have a bridge to sell you.....
I do think that its silly that they keep putting them out....but we all know that they are pie in the sky idealism....

Its not honest criticism when someone says "I don't like the version of the alien used, because it doesn't fit my headcanon". If HG approves it and says that this is how it works then guess what....that is how the canon of it works....

except, my problem has been with the Carebearans being reverted back to their 80's design when the Current Creative director at Harmony Gold redesigned them in Prelude.... "Mushroom-eared care-Bear-persons" has been out of canon for the over a decade.

Since there is nothing in the book that mandates them to be a "MECB" (other than a proposed picture from a file....) I don't see the point of this complaint honestly....

(Fair use statement. I have little patience for fans who claim that they should set canon rather than the actual IP holders/creators.)

When this is being published as a version of the book that HG has not vetted for Canon-accuracy yet... I'm not setting canon when I'm pointing out that is disagrees with the IP holder's current canon.... HG sets canon, not Irvine Jackson, not Kevin Sembedia, Not Shojimbo Kawamorn.

I would say that it is a canon/head-canon issue when people start saying "no magic because I don't like magic" or "I don't like the proposed picture because it doesn't fit what I think the way things go"
And it utterly is canon/headcanon to complain that the marines are not marines because...nothing Or that the mecha are over powered that sort of thing is pretty much the definition of complaining that a personal headcanon is being violated.
I am content to take the book at the face value it was presented as "Here is a an excerpt form the material we have. It has been sent to HG for approval, but based on our talks for the last few years it should work. In the mean time we feel that you deserve a look at it as a reward for your patience in waiting all these years."

[Colonel Wolfe]

Warning: User warned for trolling. - NMI

[Protoculture]

OK. Since I'm more than likely would not have my hands on the said RT: Expeditionary Marines sourcebook (due to living n Asia), based on hearsay and posts on this thread, let me hazard a quick guess on its RAW contents:

a) Alien Races:

- Karbarran
- Perytonian
- Spherian
- Praxian
- Garudan
- MIA = Rogue Zent fleet / Space Pirates / Disciples of Zor / Children of Zor (subset of Doz? As per aborted RT: Academy)*

*Alright, so we can construct the MIA Tyroloid aliens from 2nd Ed RT: The Macross Saga and The Masters Saga sourcebooks

b) UEEF Mecha:

- VR-010 Cyclone series (Imai Files)
- VR-020 Cylclone series (Imai Files) - Is it a transformable Hovercyclone?
- CVR-1 Armor (Imai Files)
- CVR-2 Armor (Imai Files)
- BA-012 non-transformable Walker Power Armor Cyclone
- MBR-12 Valiant (Imai Files) - A Destroid? Huh, didn't the annotation on Imai Files specifically mentioned it as a power armor?
- FSB-03 Daniel Fire Support Mecha (Imai Files) - That thing is not some Battloid.
- ISB-02 Golem (Imai Files) - Should be renamed as the name conflicts with UEDF-ASC Golem AI Battloid.
- MBR Excalibur Destroid (Sentinel Era)
- MBR Gladiator Destroid (Sentinel Era)
- HWR MAC III Monster (Sentinel Era)
- ADR Raidar-X Destroid (Sentinel Era)
- SDR Spartan Destroid (Sentinel Era)
- MIA - various other power armors, VFA-6 Alpha's Battloid upgrades and mechas from Imai Files, the VTOL aircraft and prototype Cyclone from RT Art III, the escort fighters for UES Hannibal (Tokugawa class carrier) in RT: The Robotech Masters series, Jotun Valkyrie and YF-4 from RT Tactics.

c) Additional Zentraedi Mecha

- TBP-Z1 Lotzor Battlepod (Sentinel Era)
- OBP-Z2 Relaug Officer's Battlepod (Sentinel Era)
- MIA - Z3 Striker Battloid, Z4 Transformable Tank, Zaria's upgraded Officer's Battlepod / Nousjaedul Ger / Quaedlunn Rau
Question: Did both Z1 Lotzor and Z2 Relaug are part of UEEF arsenal or utilised by rogue and hostile Zentraedi loyal to Masters?

d) Robotech Masters mecha:

- MIA - Micronian Bioroid, Killer Hunter Power Armor, Artillery Biorod (From 1st Ed RT: Return of The Masters)

e) Invid Mecha

- Garn Flying Inorganic (Imai Files) - Should it even be an Inorganic? It is clearly an evolved Invid mecha as per Imai Files's annotation.
- Invid Assault Trooper (Imai Files)
- Invid Guardian Mobile Artillery Unit (Imai Files)
- Invid Ogre Power Armor (Imai Files)
- Invid Ranger Power Armor (Imai Files)
- MIA - Invid Grappler / Invid Heavy Mala Enforcer (equipped with shoulder mounted cannons) / Invid Mortar Scout from RT: Invasion console game. Invid Mortar Scout and Invid Grappler were also featured in Mospeada's pre-production artwork.

f) Sentinel / UEEF Timeline:

Question 1: UEEF deepspace exploration started in 2014/2015 as per Gloval Initiative 2014 and Pioneer Mission spearheaded by SDF-3 launched in 2022. So when did Pioneer Mission discovers Tyrol?

Question 2: During deep forays to deepspace, when did UEEF discovered Invid Regent's forces, before or after discovery of Tyrol?

Question 3: Any description why Regess parts ways with Regent, and the state of Masters Empire when Regent started his conquest of Local Group?

[sleepy042]

Hello,
I realize I'm a bit new to the forums here but i've been a dedicated buyer of the robotech books from day one. I purchased the preview & its not bad. Its basically a mesh of visiting old friends and developing them a bit more. A lot of stuff that other posters noted applies but there are some discrepancies or suggestions i'd make. I have 12 years of USMC under my belt with most of the experience in supporting arms with 10th Marines, 2nd ANGLICO and various FIST/FAC teams in my time. I like things that make things go boom.
1) On the REF Marines ranks (i don't do this ueef thing) i STRONGLY advise to get rid of Chief Sergeant and stick to Gunnery Sergeant instead. Gunnies are generally grumpy by design as they are disciplinarians at company level. Chief Sergeant would get flipped to Chef Sergeant which will get the smack talker duck taped to the outside of an airlock on a Garfish.
2) The book needs another 10 to 16 pages of material. It REALLY misses the opportunity to explain how naval gunfire works esp with a planetary concept or how CAS operates in a close in environment. That would be about two pages of material in and of itself. Heck i'd write it for them for free if they want. Who wants to see a Garfish LRM missile bombardment skip? It also needs some clarification with the Beta which was labeled as a CAS stud in TSC but shunted into "too late to be a big factor" in the Sentinels era. This is especially confusing when it was featured in the Sentinels video during the test pilot session with the female pilot. Thats still canon isn't it?
3) Breaching and assaulting stations/space ships and the benefits of cyclones in enclosed spaces would be nice. CQB vs Zents or Bioroids.

Just saying and I appreciate being able to join the thread.

[jedi078]

We are talking about a twenty year span between the two different Marine OCCs. That would be like equating a Marine from Desert Storm and a Marine today. Sure, they have the same MOS, but they have very different jobs for two very different wars.

I still dont have my book though, so Ill reserve my official opinion when I see the submission.

Depends on the MOS....I doubt the USMC's AAV crewman MOS has changed much since the late 70's.

[glitterboy2098]

keep in mind guys, that material that was original to the 1st edition RPG (the strike force mecha, the return of the master's mecha both human and masters, etc) is apparently still in limbo last i checked. (i actually did ask not long ago, and kevin's response was basically "that is a very good question")

and material from the pre-reboot comics and games is likely in the same boat.. the IMAI files are material covered by HG's licenses of MOSPEADA. whether they own the material invented for comics made by another company with a licenses from HG is something only HG can answer.. and since some of those comic companies are gone or under new management since, who knows if HG has even made the effort. given that they junked the whole mess and started over, odds are they aren't considering much of that old material for use in new products.

[eliakon]

Hello,
I realize I'm a bit new to the forums here but

Welcome to the insanity. Enjoy your stay.

i've been a dedicated buyer of the robotech books from day one. I purchased the preview & its not bad. Its basically a mesh of visiting old friends and developing them a bit more. A lot of stuff that other posters noted applies but there are some discrepancies or suggestions i'd make. I have 12 years of USMC under my belt with most of the experience in supporting arms with 10th Marines, 2nd ANGLICO and various FIST/FAC teams in my time. I like things that make things go boom.
1) On the REF Marines ranks (i don't do this ueef thing) i STRONGLY advise to get rid of Chief Sergeant and stick to Gunnery Sergeant instead. Gunnies are generally grumpy by design as they are disciplinarians at company level. Chief Sergeant would get flipped to Chef Sergeant which will get the smack talker duck taped to the outside of an airlock on a Garfish.

I am doing both. I will make the rank change AND keep this shenanigan for future use.

2) The book needs another 10 to 16 pages of material. It REALLY misses the opportunity to explain how naval gunfire works esp with a planetary concept or how CAS operates in a close in environment. That would be about two pages of material in and of itself. Heck i'd write it for them for free if they want. Who wants to see a Garfish LRM missile bombardment skip? It also needs some clarification with the Beta which was labeled as a CAS stud in TSC but shunted into "too late to be a big factor" in the Sentinels era. This is especially confusing when it was featured in the Sentinels video during the test pilot session with the female pilot. Thats still canon isn't it?

While there is likely to be a lot more information in the final book....
I would personally love to see a Rifter article on naval gunfire and CAS. Especially if it covered several different lines (Robotech, Rifts, Heroes....)

3) Breaching and assaulting stations/space ships and the benefits of cyclones in enclosed spaces would be nice. CQB vs Zents or Bioroids.

Mmmm I am seeing the article now "Combat actions in spaaaaace"
Write it. Write it NOW!

Just saying and I appreciate being able to join the thread.

[Lt Gargoyle]

Hello,
I realize I'm a bit new to the forums here but i've been a dedicated buyer of the robotech books from day one. I purchased the preview & its not bad. Its basically a mesh of visiting old friends and developing them a bit more. A lot of stuff that other posters noted applies but there are some discrepancies or suggestions i'd make. I have 12 years of USMC under my belt with most of the experience in supporting arms with 10th Marines, 2nd ANGLICO and various FIST/FAC teams in my time. I like things that make things go boom.
1) On the REF Marines ranks (i don't do this ueef thing) i STRONGLY advise to get rid of Chief Sergeant and stick to Gunnery Sergeant instead. Gunnies are generally grumpy by design as they are disciplinarians at company level. Chief Sergeant would get flipped to Chef Sergeant which will get the smack talker duck taped to the outside of an airlock on a Garfish.
2) The book needs another 10 to 16 pages of material. It REALLY misses the opportunity to explain how naval gunfire works esp with a planetary concept or how CAS operates in a close in environment. That would be about two pages of material in and of itself. Heck i'd write it for them for free if they want. Who wants to see a Garfish LRM missile bombardment skip? It also needs some clarification with the Beta which was labeled as a CAS stud in TSC but shunted into "too late to be a big factor" in the Sentinels era. This is especially confusing when it was featured in the Sentinels video during the test pilot session with the female pilot. Thats still canon isn't it?
3) Breaching and assaulting stations/space ships and the benefits of cyclones in enclosed spaces would be nice. CQB vs Zents or Bioroids.

Just saying and I appreciate being able to join the thread.

First, welcome. I could see a new suplement being written for the UEEF Navy.

On 1) I am ok if the UEEF Marines have things that make it so they stand out from the United States.

on 2) its still possible we can get a few more pages. I would not mind.

on 3) i could really see this being handled in another book we will not see.




Personally I would like to see the Sentinel races updated. But I am personally happy to see them included and if nothing else i'll do some editing to their description myself. I have to say, I am really even shocked we got this book and i'm still in doubt we will get a fully finished book despite getting this one.
We can all go back and forth on what PB is good at and what they are not, but at this point most of us know what we are gonna be getting. KS is trying to hold control of his company and have his hands in everything. And that is probably hurting his sales. But its his company. I do not mind people speaking their minds, I do. I argue with others until i get bored or find something new to go to. We all believe our opinions are the right ones. So while yes there are editing errors that need to be fixed. And We all would love to have our favorite toys in every books, and i certainly would like the Ships of each of the eras, we should be happy we got this.

[Lt Gargoyle]

I just found the 118 page of the Imai Files (a collection of Genesis Climber Mospeada and super dimension cavalry southern cross pre-production materials by Roger Harkavy.

sadly i do not know how to break the pdf down to separate the images.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I just found the 118 page of the Imai Files (a collection of Genesis Climber Mospeada and super dimension cavalry southern cross pre-production materials by Roger Harkavy.

sadly i do not know how to break the pdf down to separate the images.

acrobat reader's newest version has some "snap shot" ability which lets you select images from a pdf.

[ShadowLogan]

@RCSF
No problem. Some things that get referenced in the fan community can have several names in use. Just look at the old uRRG and RT Research, they both use Vulture and Volcano to refer to different platforms, they have the names swapped (even the DVD extra's have that feel when you consider the "Spartan" and "Gladiator" from prior material, etc).

@mech798
Part of Palladium's problem with release schedule is that everything, short of maybe the Rifter, has to go through Kevin for editing/re-write. Kevin also has other matters to attend to that take him away, and Palladium does have other RPG lines to support and some are more important to them than RT. I'm not trying to defend Palladium, but that is the reality.

All I am saying is that some of the feedback issues mentioned so far here maybe premature given KS has yet to Edit it, and HG has not weighed in yet either.

It also needs some clarification with the Beta which was labeled as a CAS stud in TSC but shunted into "too late to be a big factor" in the Sentinels era. This is especially confusing when it was featured in the Sentinels video during the test pilot session with the female pilot. Thats still canon isn't it?

The Beta in TSC is the VBF-9A/S model version and entered service in the mid/late 2030s (IIRC). The Beta in the Sentinels OVA is the VBF-X-7 model, it was still regarded as an experimental program, and it was shortly after that flight that the program was canceled (all we know is that it was canceled in 2022 sometime, which is when SDF-3 launches, and that test flight occur). At least according to current canon, which IINM puts the OVA in a sort of quasi-status in that it happened in terms of broad strokes.

[Chronicler]

Where is everyone getting the Imai files? I only got images from it for the Mospeada side of things and those I got off of Tumblr a year ago.

[ShadowLogan]

Where is everyone getting the Imai files? I only got images from it for the Mospeada side of things and those I got off of Tumblr a year ago.

There was a link to it up awhile ago here on the forums....

Here the old thread is: http://www.palladiumbooks.com/forums/vi ... 9&t=110902

But the link doesn't work any more. So where it is currently hosted I don't know.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Where is everyone getting the Imai files? I only got images from it for the Mospeada side of things and those I got off of Tumblr a year ago.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8Mpsu ... VSOFU/view

[Chronicler]

Where is everyone getting the Imai files? I only got images from it for the Mospeada side of things and those I got off of Tumblr a year ago.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8Mpsu ... VSOFU/view

Thank you.

[bielmic]

Thanks for the art preview (albeit from an alternate source). So are the -10 and -20 series cyclones a step below in power from the first production 30 series that are themselves below the -50 series in terms of power? The power of the cyclones (all of them in the old rpg and the battler series in this one) have always bothered me. Something with 10% of the volume of an alpha shouldn't have 60% of it's MDC. I'm much more ok with something with 100-150 mdc and an autododge at that size. The 30 series seems like a better balance in those terms and I'm curious if the earlier two varieties are even more scaled down. Is the space cyclone (no wheels but thrusters, called the 21 Nova in Wolf's file) still transformable? I'd be curious if I could use it as a space borne mecha about 10ft tall counts as for a new sentinel race conversion when the book comes out. Obviously, all that info is subject to change/approval/etc but curious to see how the cyclones developed retrograde.