Intangibility question: How to kill them

[Rimmerdal]

How many ways can you kill an intangible target? Aside from electricity and heat..(as per HU rules) I'm thinking necromancy, curses and magic would not be countered by our little Casper wanna-be...

Force or physical based magic not on fire or lightening would be countered.

Would say Sonics..as they can talk intangible and sound does Agitate and stimulate molecules..

Would a Psi-weapon hurt them?

Edit: fixed my post..

[flatline]

Can they pass through a force field (magical or otherwise?)?

--flatline

[Mercdog]

IMO, Psi-swords and such should be able to harm them.
Also, I believe gassing them would prove very effective unless they also happen to be immune to such attacks. Even if wearing protective breathing apparatus, I think the gas would simply mix with their dispersed molecules more easily. I'd personally give a penalty (-3 or so) to saves vs. gas attacks while intangible.

[Killer Cyborg]

Psi-Swords seem to be able to hurt pretty much anything.

[Tor]

Palladium isn't entirely consistent about what psi-swords are... like in spite of being an energy-ish weapon I think I recall somewhere it mentioning adding a PS bonus.

I think unless magic/psi says it can effect intangible (or if it's of an element that can, like electrokinesis) that we shouldn't assume it does though.

[Killer Cyborg]

Palladium isn't entirely consistent about what psi-swords are... like in spite of being an energy-ish weapon I think I recall somewhere it mentioning adding a PS bonus.

I think unless magic/psi says it can effect intangible (or if it's of an element that can, like electrokinesis) that we shouldn't assume it does though.

Psi-Swords affect vampires, were-creatures, and invulnerable characters.
Normal rules don't seem to apply to them.

[Rimmerdal]

Palladium isn't entirely consistent about what psi-swords are... like in spite of being an energy-ish weapon I think I recall somewhere it mentioning adding a PS bonus.

I think unless magic/psi says it can effect intangible (or if it's of an element that can, like electrokinesis) that we shouldn't assume it does though.

Psi-Swords affect vampires, were-creatures, and invulnerable characters.
Normal rules don't seem to apply to them.

Its the easy button of the megaverse.

[Tor]

Psi-Swords affect vampires, were-creatures, and invulnerable characters. Normal rules don't seem to apply to them.

Bit iffy on this. Invulnerability says "vulnerable to psionics, spell magic" but after finishing the list they're in, says "all of which have full effect". It mentions "energy type magic like fire balls does no damage". If damage were an effect then clearly not all spell magic would have a 'full' effect, would it?

If a magic fire ball does no damage, we're left wondering, would a psionic fireball (pyrokinesis) damage them? What does 'vulnerable to psionics' actually mean? Is it talking about psionic damage, or the various non-damaging psionic or magical ways people can be compromised?

While intangibility says "psionic attacks have full effect" we're left questioning whether or not damage is implied by 'effect'. Invulnerability mentions gases are reduced to half damage, duration and effect. That leads me to think 'effect' and 'damage' have distinctly different meanings, and 'effect' probably refers to things like penalties.

Rune swords can hit people in astral form (though I forget where it said that) but not someone intangible, unless otherwise specified.

Moving beyond super powers, psi-swords being able to affect vampires is just a unique property of psi-swords. They aren't mentioned (least not in my VK) as being equally harmed by other psionic attacks like pyro or electro kineses. TK can only do so by merit of normal objects, and mind bolt can only do half damage.

Mind bolt is actually a great way of taking out vamps since it doesn't have that note about being reduced to HP. SDC mind bolts are cheap, and a MD mind bolt could basically 1-hit a vamp, or is there some disclaimer I missed which would make a 1d4 MD bolt into a 1d4 hp bolt?

[Kagashi]

Just read up on Wraith Brigades and its not so clear in there either. The whole paragraph does not really make much sense, I think it could have been written a little better, but from what I gather:

-Only vulnerable to energy weapons, which deal half damage.
-It's not clear, but I think the intention was magic and psionic attacks (I assume energy based attacks only based on the above statement) inflict half damage. But it does not say to what extent. Half damage? Full damage? It does after all go into detail on how energy weapons only deal half damage just before that...so perhaps its only half.
-Psi-Swords specifically do double damage.
-Rune weapons, although physical, are specifically mentioned to still deal regular damage.

So, an Orb of Cold, although magic, will pass right through. However, a rune sword, will hurt the entity. A mind bolt will do half damage, but a TK Punch will pass right through. A technological laser and a magical firebolt pistol will both only deal half damage.

Im not sure if an entity could pass through a force field or not. It says it can pass through solid objects, but energy weapons deal half damage, so an energy barrier may actually prevent the entity from gaining entry. But that is only conjecture that energy weapons are related to force fields and we know energy weapons have some kind of effect. It does not mention force fields at all in the text.

[Grand Paladin]

Particle beam weapons have historically been able to harm a person that has the innate ability to become intangible. This is presented in HU, HU2 if I recall correctly.

[Rimmerdal]

Particle beam weapons have historically been able to harm a person that has the innate ability to become intangible. This is presented in HU, HU2 if I recall correctly.

Never spotted that. but makes sens as that would agitate and or disrupt molecules and its an energy weapon so a laser or other types of energy that disrupt molecules should have some effect..green lasers used underwater might even work.

[flatline]

Particle beam weapons have historically been able to harm a person that has the innate ability to become intangible. This is presented in HU, HU2 if I recall correctly.

Never spotted that. but makes sens as that would agitate and or disrupt molecules and its an energy weapon so a laser or other types of energy that disrupt molecules should have some effect..green lasers used underwater might even work.

I think that it's Invulnerability that particle beams are oddly effective against. It's my understanding that particle beams are just another energy attack in regards to Intangibility.

--flatline

[Funkmaster G]

My primary PC is a Psi-Ghost. This forum keeps my up at night

[sHaka]

Phase weaponry?

[flatline]

My primary PC is a Psi-Ghost. This forum keeps my up at night

Losing a character is a great excuse to try something new!

--flatline

[Blue_Lion]

If I remember right there are 4 sources I can think of.

Magic-seams to be able to hit things regardless that are untouchable normally.
PSI-some psi powers can hurt them
Martial arts skill-In mystic china for ninja and super spies there is a special kata that allows you to hurt anything even intangible.
Poison gas- Big weakness as it is absorbed strait into the bloodstream in PB.

Not Shure but phase tech might.
Advance alien super tech might be able to.

[Grand Paladin]

Particle beam weapons have historically been able to harm a person that has the innate ability to become intangible. This is presented in HU, HU2 if I recall correctly.

Never spotted that. but makes sens as that would agitate and or disrupt molecules and its an energy weapon so a laser or other types of energy that disrupt molecules should have some effect..green lasers used underwater might even work.

I think that it's Invulnerability that particle beams are oddly effective against. It's my understanding that particle beams are just another energy attack in regards to Intangibility.

--flatline

However, the intangible character is still vulnerable to all electrical, accelerated particle beams, and sonic blasts, which stimulate and agitate molecules inflicting half damage. Psionics and gases also have full effect.

[Glistam]

Other beings who can go intangible in different ways may be able to hurt them, and depending on how they do it, they may not suffer the same restrictions.

[ShadowLogan]

How many ways can you kill an intangible target?

It depends on the source of intangibility you are referring to. The Super/Mutant power approach, or something like Astral Projection on the physical plane. It looks like the Super/Mutant power and not the Astral Projection (which has certain drawbacks not present in SP, but has other advantages).

Aside from waiting them out as they have to eat/drink and sleep at some point you mean. At which point you can poison them, or other underhanded or direct attacks.

Negate Super Powers type powers/abilities (Anti-magic cloud, Psi-Nullifier, etc) would turn them tangible and return them to full vulnerability if the two powers can interact on the same level (SP vs SP, Magic vs Magic, etc).

Psionic:
Bio-manipulation (can target their HP for a draining attack)
Hypnotic Suggestion (turn off power)
tk punch/kick (at reduced damage sense some of the attack is psionic energy and physical based)
Astral Project on the physical plane (both are now in intangible states, however the Psionic one isn't as vulnerable in some respects, but more vulnerable in others) MIGHT allow one to engage in hand to hand combat
Mind Bolt (psionic energy)
Telekenetically hold them underwater (or similar) so they can't breathe

Gravity Manipulation (Tech or Magic or Super Power) to send them floating off (if they can't fly) into the air, at some point they may lose consciousness and become tangible and fall to their death

Vacuum/non-breathable air. This probably can be thought of as a variant of poison gas.

Petrification/Turn to "substance" like the Gorgon might still qualify as effecting them making them physical at which point you can smash them.

TW/Magic/Technology based weapon specifically intended to attack intangible targets might also work (don't know of any specific examples, Phase Weaponry might qualify), though may be limited to the basis for intangibility (Astral Projection, Super Power, etc).

Teleport/Rift them to a hostile environment that their power is no help in, this assumes you can target them with said ability.

Temporal Trap, freeze them in time. If it can be maintained (say a Ley Line Powered Device holding everyone/thing in a certain radius in the grasp of a Time Slip hold) it would take them out of the picture for some time (effectively killing them until released by some means).

EDIT: forgot to add Exposure to Lethal Amounts of Radiation.

[Rimmerdal]

How many ways can you kill an intangible target?

It depends on the source of intangibility you are referring to. The Super/Mutant power approach, or something like Astral Projection on the physical plane. It looks like the Super/Mutant power and not the Astral Projection (which has certain drawbacks not present in SP, but has other advantages).

Aside from waiting them out as they have to eat/drink and sleep at some point you mean. At which point you can poison them, or other underhanded or direct attacks.

Negate Super Powers type powers/abilities (Anti-magic cloud, Psi-Nullifier, etc) would turn them tangible and return them to full vulnerability if the two powers can interact on the same level (SP vs SP, Magic vs Magic, etc).

Psionic:
Bio-manipulation (can target their HP for a draining attack)
Hypnotic Suggestion (turn off power)
tk punch/kick (at reduced damage sense some of the attack is psionic energy and physical based)
Astral Project on the physical plane (both are now in intangible states, however the Psionic one isn't as vulnerable in some respects, but more vulnerable in others) MIGHT allow one to engage in hand to hand combat
Mind Bolt (psionic energy)
Telekenetically hold them underwater (or similar) so they can't breathe

Gravity Manipulation (Tech or Magic or Super Power) to send them floating off (if they can't fly) into the air, at some point they may lose consciousness and become tangible and fall to their death

Vacuum/non-breathable air. This probably can be thought of as a variant of poison gas.

Petrification/Turn to "substance" like the Gorgon might still qualify as effecting them making them physical at which point you can smash them.

TW/Magic/Technology based weapon specifically intended to attack intangible targets might also work (don't know of any specific examples, Phase Weaponry might qualify), though may be limited to the basis for intangibility (Astral Projection, Super Power, etc).

Teleport/Rift them to a hostile environment that their power is no help in, this assumes you can target them with said ability.

Temporal Trap, freeze them in time. If it can be maintained (say a Ley Line Powered Device holding everyone/thing in a certain radius in the grasp of a Time Slip hold) it would take them out of the picture for some time (effectively killing them until released by some means).

EDIT: forgot to add Exposure to Lethal Amounts of Radiation.

Ya I was worried the 'type' of intangibility would be a factor. Nothing in this could be simple could it? Do like some those method. Will ned to keep them in mind.

[Captain Shiva]

Bio-Manipulation might work as well as some Mind Bleeder powers. In spells, Mental Blast(Book of Magic page 109) and Agony(page 114,) as well as Life Drain and Mental Shock(both on page 117) are likely candidates. Deathword(page 132) is a good choice, as is Soultwist(page 145.) Rounding out the list is the Necro-Magic spell Death Bolt, found on page on page 193. If I think of any more ideas, I will share them with you.

[Captain Shiva]

Just had another idea: smoke grenades plus EBA plus Neural Mace.

[Traska]

House Rule: Lasers. If you can see them, light does *not* pass harmlessly through them.

Same house rule: Invisibility grants immunity to lasers.

[Captain Shiva]

I ran a Rifts campaign several years ago with a Ps-Ghost PC. I made up this house rule: if you are intangible, you can not directly affect the physical world. No "I turn intangible, walk up to the CS soldier, and use TK to pull the pins on all his grenades. And you can't use Bio-Manipulation while intangible, either." This pretty much limits things to the use of Sensitive category powers.

[Tor]

Particle beam weapons have historically been able to harm a person that has the innate ability to become intangible. This is presented in HU, HU2 if I recall correctly.

Never spotted that. but makes sens as that would agitate and or disrupt molecules and its an energy weapon so a laser or other types of energy that disrupt molecules should have some effect..green lasers used underwater might even work.

Particle beams are especially interesting in Nightbane. CJ introduced special notes on how with different strike rolls it can do different amounts of damage. Sadly did not make it into other products.

Intangible Characters in HU are Impervious to Elemental/Energy attacks.

Not sure what you mean by this. Fire/Electricity are both considered energy attacks and inflict 3/10 dmg to Intangible bros.

I ran a Rifts campaign several years ago with a Ps-Ghost PC. I made up this house rule: if you are intangible, you can not directly affect the physical world. No "I turn intangible, walk up to the CS soldier, and use TK to pull the pins on all his grenades. And you can't use Bio-Manipulation while intangible, either." This pretty much limits things to the use of Sensitive category powers.

Sounds lame, no feasible reason for those limitations to exist. Plenty of other ways to deal with intangibles. Since they can't bring armor along and are SDC, a single MD blast of plasma, or a Zapper, could 1-hit them.

[Rimmerdal]

I ran a Rifts campaign several years ago with a Ps-Ghost PC. I made up this house rule: if you are intangible, you can not directly affect the physical world. No "I turn intangible, walk up to the CS soldier, and use TK to pull the pins on all his grenades. And you can't use Bio-Manipulation while intangible, either." This pretty much limits things to the use of Sensitive category powers.

Not a bad rule. keeps it safe and balanced. they can't hurt you..you can't hurt them. I do have one question would prowl skill work with going tangible near a target? I wold sneak up intangible to an ambush spot then hit him..and after the hit re intangible.

[Rimmerdal]

Particle beam weapons have historically been able to harm a person that has the innate ability to become intangible. This is presented in HU, HU2 if I recall correctly.

Never spotted that. but makes sens as that would agitate and or disrupt molecules and its an energy weapon so a laser or other types of energy that disrupt molecules should have some effect..green lasers used underwater might even work.

Particle beams are especially interesting in Nightbane. CJ introduced special notes on how with different strike rolls it can do different amounts of damage. Sadly did not make it into other products.

Intangible Characters in HU are Impervious to Elemental/Energy attacks.

Not sure what you mean by this. Fire/Electricity are both considered energy attacks and inflict 3/10 dmg to Intangible bros.

I ran a Rifts campaign several years ago with a Ps-Ghost PC. I made up this house rule: if you are intangible, you can not directly affect the physical world. No "I turn intangible, walk up to the CS soldier, and use TK to pull the pins on all his grenades. And you can't use Bio-Manipulation while intangible, either." This pretty much limits things to the use of Sensitive category powers.

Sounds lame, no feasible reason for those limitations to exist. Plenty of other ways to deal with intangibles. Since they can't bring armor along and are SDC, a single MD blast of plasma, or a Zapper, could 1-hit them.

NG has a a stealth suit that is MDC. its in Merc ops. the rules also do not say they can't wear TW either...so armour is less an issue than you think.

[Rimmerdal]

ok.. Checking up on the power, Seems that it's gained a slew of vulnerabilities since the revised days. as for the psi ghost not being able to bring armor. Not true, just has to be Skin tight and under the 20lb limit.

the NG stealth suit is 12 pounds so that with TW enhancemenst is a nice suit.

[Captain Shiva]

I ran a Rifts campaign several years ago with a Ps-Ghost PC. I made up this house rule: if you are intangible, you can not directly affect the physical world. No "I turn intangible, walk up to the CS soldier, and use TK to pull the pins on all his grenades. And you can't use Bio-Manipulation while intangible, either." This pretty much limits things to the use of Sensitive category powers.

Not a bad rule. keeps it safe and balanced. they can't hurt you..you can't hurt them. I do have one question would prowl skill work with going tangible near a target? I wold sneak up intangible to an ambush spot then hit him..and after the hit re intangible.

My ruling was that prowl worked normally(with apprporiate bonuses) and going intangible would require a melee action, but becoming tangible would not(since your default state would be tangibility.) I would require a successful Dodge roll to avoid an attack by "ghosting."

[Captain Shiva]

Particle beam weapons have historically been able to harm a person that has the innate ability to become intangible. This is presented in HU, HU2 if I recall correctly.

Never spotted that. but makes sens as that would agitate and or disrupt molecules and its an energy weapon so a laser or other types of energy that disrupt molecules should have some effect..green lasers used underwater might even work.

Particle beams are especially interesting in Nightbane. CJ introduced special notes on how with different strike rolls it can do different amounts of damage. Sadly did not make it into other products.

Intangible Characters in HU are Impervious to Elemental/Energy attacks.

Not sure what you mean by this. Fire/Electricity are both considered energy attacks and inflict 3/10 dmg to Intangible bros.

I ran a Rifts campaign several years ago with a Ps-Ghost PC. I made up this house rule: if you are intangible, you can not directly affect the physical world. No "I turn intangible, walk up to the CS soldier, and use TK to pull the pins on all his grenades. And you can't use Bio-Manipulation while intangible, either." This pretty much limits things to the use of Sensitive category powers.

Sounds lame, no feasible reason for those limitations to exist. Plenty of other ways to deal with intangibles. Since they can't bring armor along and are SDC, a single MD blast of plasma, or a Zapper, could 1-hit them.

Why do you say "lame?" I came up with these rules to make Psi-Ghosts difficult,but not impossible, to kill. They can wear armor, albeit very light. While tangible,they are fairly easy targets. The Zapper objection is legitimate, but I see nothing to indicate that MD plasma could harm them while intangible.If you think I am wrong,please tell of the book and page number that indicates otherwise.

[Sir_Spirit]

Dark blades can cut intangible supers, in the GM guide for,HU.

[Tor]

NG has a a stealth suit that is MDC. its in Merc ops.

I assume it's under the 20lb weight limit of what Psi-Ghosts can bring along? I overlooked this, I think I was mixing up my ideas about astral projections with intangibility, since astral bros can't usually bring armor, especially into the material plane.

I'm still left wondering how intangible armor functions. Would intangible environmental armor stop gas from entering the blood stream? If lightning swords go right through the character then would the armor even stop it?

the rules also do not say they can't wear TW either...so armour is less an issue than you think.

I have less problems thinking 'armor of ithan is magic so it protects you' I guess since it doesn't rely on interpreting technology's physics and how it changes while intangible, I suppose.

has to be Skin tight and under the 20lb limit.

the NG stealth suit is 12 pounds so that with TW enhancemenst is a nice suit.

I'm still left wondering "if I can walk through a TW lightning sword, how does my armor stop the lightning sword from shocking my liver?" I guess.

It's one thing to divert a pure energy blast, I guess, but when an energy attack is channeled through a physical object, I think that raises questions about how effective normal armor is at protecting when it loses tangibility.

Why do you say "lame?"

Disabling things like TK while intangibility removes interesting assassination options for them, something I think as super-spies they're well-primed to do.

I came up with these rules to make Psi-Ghosts difficult,but not impossible, to kill.

Removing TK for intangibles doesn't make them harder to kill, it makes them less efficient killers.

I see nothing to indicate that MD plasma could harm them while intangible.If you think I am wrong,please tell of the book and page number that indicates otherwise.

This relies on the interpretation that plasma is a form of fire and heat, which intangibles are harmed by, in HU.

While distinction is made between Flame and Plasma (different APS powers) a plasma bolt is described as a "flaming bolt" which lights flammable materials, and APSplasma as a "fiery energy being", Melt Obstacles describes it as 'heat' and 'burning'. Maybe the distinction is it's some other form of gas whereas 'fire' is burning oxygen?

Psyscape only mentions their vulnerability to electricity, of course. We could interpret that as a different version of the power and not apply HU errata to it.

Dark blades can cut intangible supers, in the GM guide for,HU.

Cool, I guess they share similar properties to Rune Weapons, much like Artifacts. I assume Magic Weapons from HU would also cut them then? MWs and Artifacts have intelligences in them like Rune Weapons, unlike dark blades.

[Rimmerdal]

Ya tor. the suit is a mere 12 pounds..so that leaves plenty of room for other stuff iff your smart about what you take with ya. and no while suit itself won't the Right TW effects you could avoid electrical hazards of a lethal form.

[Tor]

The thing is, let's say I have a TW lightning rod (1d6 MD). It wouldn't pose a major threat to any decent armor, even this kind, right?

But if the armor is turned intangible, it won't impede my lightning rod... so I can stab it right through your intangible armor and hit both it AND you, right? Much like a phase sword does to material things.

So how would it protect the person?

If it was just a lightning bolt I might buy it, but not a physical instrument of electricity.

[Rimmerdal]

The thing is, let's say I have a TW lightning rod (1d6 MD). It wouldn't pose a major threat to any decent armor, even this kind, right?

But if the armor is turned intangible, it won't impede my lightning rod... so I can stab it right through your intangible armor and hit both it AND you, right? Much like a phase sword does to material things.

So how would it protect the person?

If it was just a lightning bolt I might buy it, but not a physical instrument of electricity.

Ah I get ya...It would pass through the body as well. now the lightening would still do its thing should the GM rule electricity is a threat.

[Captain Shiva]

NG has a a stealth suit that is MDC. its in Merc ops.

I assume it's under the 20lb weight limit of what Psi-Ghosts can bring along? I overlooked this, I think I was mixing up my ideas about astral projections with intangibility, since astral bros can't usually bring armor, especially into the material plane.

I'm still left wondering how intangible armor functions. Would intangible environmental armor stop gas from entering the blood stream? If lightning swords go right through the character then would the armor even stop it?
If you are intangible, then so is your EBA. The gasses would then have normal effect. The lightning sword would pass right through the armor. A possible house rule would be to have SDC electricity do normal damage, and MDC electricity do double normal HP/SDC damage.

the rules also do not say they can't wear TW either...so armour is less an issue than you think.

I have less problems thinking 'armor of ithan is magic so it protects you' I guess since it doesn't rely on interpreting technology's physics and how it changes while intangible, I suppose.
Machines do not function while intangible, but TW machines do not operate like normal machines, so a case could be made that they could still work.

has to be Skin tight and under the 20lb limit.

the NG stealth suit is 12 pounds so that with TW enhancemenst is a nice suit.

I'm still left wondering "if I can walk through a TW lightning sword, how does my armor stop the lightning sword from shocking my liver?" I guess.

It's one thing to divert a pure energy blast, I guess, but when an energy attack is channeled through a physical object, I think that raises questions about how effective normal armor is at protecting when it loses tangibility.

Why do you say "lame?"

Disabling things like TK while intangibility removes interesting assassination options for them, something I think as super-spies they're well-primed to do.
Ghostly assassins are deadly indeed; all the more reason to try to keep them from completely unbalancing the game.

I came up with these rules to make Psi-Ghosts difficult,but not impossible, to kill.

Removing TK for intangibles doesn't make them harder to kill, it makes them less efficient killers.
I believe you misinterpreted my post. My point was that Psi-Ghosts can be very formidable adversaries, and by placing a few reasonable limitations on them, you might avoid completely screwing up the game.

I see nothing to indicate that MD plasma could harm them while intangible.If you think I am wrong,please tell of the book and page number that indicates otherwise.

This relies on the interpretation that plasma is a form of fire and heat, which intangibles are harmed by, in HU.

While distinction is made between Flame and Plasma (different APS powers) a plasma bolt is described as a "flaming bolt" which lights flammable materials, and APSplasma as a "fiery energy being", Melt Obstacles describes it as 'heat' and 'burning'. Maybe the distinction is it's some other form of gas whereas 'fire' is burning oxygen?

Psyscape only mentions their vulnerability to electricity, of course. We could interpret that as a different version of the power and not apply HU errata to it.
Point taken. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. How foolish of me, to expect consistency from Palladium.

Dark blades can cut intangible supers, in the GM guide for,HU.

Cool, I guess they share similar properties to Rune Weapons, much like Artifacts. I assume Magic Weapons from HU would also cut them then? MWs and Artifacts have intelligences in them like Rune Weapons, unlike dark blades.[/quote]

[Captain Shiva]

NG has a a stealth suit that is MDC. its in Merc ops.

I assume it's under the 20lb weight limit of what Psi-Ghosts can bring along? I overlooked this, I think I was mixing up my ideas about astral projections with intangibility, since astral bros can't usually bring armor, especially into the material plane.

I'm still left wondering how intangible armor functions. Would intangible environmental armor stop gas from entering the blood stream? If lightning swords go right through the character then would the armor even stop it?
If you are intangible, then so is your EBA. The gasses would then have normal effect. The lightning sword would pass right through the armor. A possible house rule would be to have SDC electricity do normal damage, and MDC electricity do double normal HP/SDC damage.

the rules also do not say they can't wear TW either...so armour is less an issue than you think.

I have less problems thinking 'armor of ithan is magic so it protects you' I guess since it doesn't rely on interpreting technology's physics and how it changes while intangible, I suppose.
Machines do not function while intangible, but TW machines do not operate like normal machines, so a case could be made that they could still work.

has to be Skin tight and under the 20lb limit.

the NG stealth suit is 12 pounds so that with TW enhancemenst is a nice suit.

I'm still left wondering "if I can walk through a TW lightning sword, how does my armor stop the lightning sword from shocking my liver?" I guess.

It's one thing to divert a pure energy blast, I guess, but when an energy attack is channeled through a physical object, I think that raises questions about how effective normal armor is at protecting when it loses tangibility.

Why do you say "lame?"

Disabling things like TK while intangibility removes interesting assassination options for them, something I think as super-spies they're well-primed to do.
Ghostly assassins are deadly indeed; all the more reason to try to keep them from completely unbalancing the game.

I came up with these rules to make Psi-Ghosts difficult,but not impossible, to kill.

Removing TK for intangibles doesn't make them harder to kill, it makes them less efficient killers.
I believe you misinterpreted my post. My point was that Psi-Ghosts can be very formidable adversaries, and by placing a few reasonable limitations on them, you might avoid completely screwing up the game.

I see nothing to indicate that MD plasma could harm them while intangible.If you think I am wrong,please tell of the book and page number that indicates otherwise.

This relies on the interpretation that plasma is a form of fire and heat, which intangibles are harmed by, in HU.

While distinction is made between Flame and Plasma (different APS powers) a plasma bolt is described as a "flaming bolt" which lights flammable materials, and APSplasma as a "fiery energy being", Melt Obstacles describes it as 'heat' and 'burning'. Maybe the distinction is it's some other form of gas whereas 'fire' is burning oxygen?

Psyscape only mentions their vulnerability to electricity, of course. We could interpret that as a different version of the power and not apply HU errata to it.
Point taken. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. How foolish of me, to expect consistency from Palladium.

Dark blades can cut intangible supers, in the GM guide for,HU.

Cool, I guess they share similar properties to Rune Weapons, much like Artifacts. I assume Magic Weapons from HU would also cut them then? MWs and Artifacts have intelligences in them like Rune Weapons, unlike dark blades.

[/quote]
I have no idea how all my post quotes got so screwed up.

[Tor]

Happens to the best of us... lesse if I can pick out what you wrote...

If you are intangible, then so is your EBA. The gasses would then have normal effect. The lightning sword would pass right through the armor. A possible house rule would be to have SDC electricity do normal damage, and MDC electricity do double normal HP/SDC damage.

It might be okay to rule that magical protections (or psionic ones) remain intact at least since they're all non-physical and such. MD electricity shouldn't really get reduced (besides the standard 1/2ing) so as to give some incentive to a Psi-Ghost to say, learn Electrokinesis themself, or get a TW device that bestows Impervious to Energy...

It occurs to me a Psi-Ghost could actually go intangible while bringig a TW lightning rod along with them, no? This would protect them against electric attacks...

Which begs the question... if I stab a SAMAS with my intangible lightning rod, does it go right through the armor yet shock the person inside?

I mean, you have to figure, if tangible electricity does half damage to intangibles, then intangible electricity should do half damage to tangibles. It's only fair.

[Captain Shiva]

Happens to the best of us... lesse if I can pick out what you wrote...

If you are intangible, then so is your EBA. The gasses would then have normal effect. The lightning sword would pass right through the armor. A possible house rule would be to have SDC electricity do normal damage, and MDC electricity do double normal HP/SDC damage.

It might be okay to rule that magical protections (or psionic ones) remain intact at least since they're all non-physical and such. MD electricity shouldn't really get reduced (besides the standard 1/2ing) so as to give some incentive to a Psi-Ghost to say, learn Electrokinesis themself, or get a TW device that bestows Impervious to Energy...

It occurs to me a Psi-Ghost could actually go intangible while bringig a TW lightning rod along with them, no? This would protect them against electric attacks...

Which begs the question... if I stab a SAMAS with my intangible lightning rod, does it go right through the armor yet shock the person inside?

I mean, you have to figure, if tangible electricity does half damage to intangibles, then intangible electricity should do half damage to tangibles. It's only fair.

And yet another can of worms is opened.

[Rimmerdal]

Happens to the best of us... lesse if I can pick out what you wrote...

If you are intangible, then so is your EBA. The gasses would then have normal effect. The lightning sword would pass right through the armor. A possible house rule would be to have SDC electricity do normal damage, and MDC electricity do double normal HP/SDC damage.

It might be okay to rule that magical protections (or psionic ones) remain intact at least since they're all non-physical and such. MD electricity shouldn't really get reduced (besides the standard 1/2ing) so as to give some incentive to a Psi-Ghost to say, learn Electrokinesis themself, or get a TW device that bestows Impervious to Energy...

It occurs to me a Psi-Ghost could actually go intangible while bringig a TW lightning rod along with them, no? This would protect them against electric attacks...

Which begs the question... if I stab a SAMAS with my intangible lightning rod, does it go right through the armor yet shock the person inside?

I mean, you have to figure, if tangible electricity does half damage to intangibles, then intangible electricity should do half damage to tangibles. It's only fair.

And yet another can of worms is opened.

Shiva, on this forum we have a worm stampede on a regular basis. Its like your worst nightmare...all the pasta you ever ate coming back after you..

If recall Electro kenisis won't solve the vulnerability. But TW and Psionc might to some degree so you have some protection. Truth is you rarely run into the issue and its easy to dodge..just go solid or dodge the burst. Its really not that killer a weakness as it seems.

[Captain Shiva]

Happens to the best of us... lesse if I can pick out what you wrote...

If you are intangible, then so is your EBA. The gasses would then have normal effect. The lightning sword would pass right through the armor. A possible house rule would be to have SDC electricity do normal damage, and MDC electricity do double normal HP/SDC damage.

It might be okay to rule that magical protections (or psionic ones) remain intact at least since they're all non-physical and such. MD electricity shouldn't really get reduced (besides the standard 1/2ing) so as to give some incentive to a Psi-Ghost to say, learn Electrokinesis themself, or get a TW device that bestows Impervious to Energy...

It occurs to me a Psi-Ghost could actually go intangible while bringig a TW lightning rod along with them, no? This would protect them against electric attacks...

Which begs the question... if I stab a SAMAS with my intangible lightning rod, does it go right through the armor yet shock the person inside?

I mean, you have to figure, if tangible electricity does half damage to intangibles, then intangible electricity should do half damage to tangibles. It's only fair.

And yet another can of worms is opened.

Shiva, on this forum we have a worm stampede on a regular basis. Its like your worst nightmare...all the pasta you ever ate coming back after you..

If recall Electro kenisis won't solve the vulnerability. But TW and Psionc might to some degree so you have some protection. Truth is you rarely run into the issue and its easy to dodge..just go solid or dodge the burst. Its really not that killer a weakness as it seems.

Do you have any idea how much pasta that is?

[Tor]

you rarely run into the issue and its easy to dodge..just go solid or dodge the burst. Its really not that killer a weakness as it seems.

Since when is dodging energy bursts easy? Most energy weapons have huge penalties to dodge and bonus nullificaiton. Psi-Ghosts don't have any special avoidance abilities either. So unless they're a Cyber-Knight on the side, the 1-hit kill potential of MD electricity is a big deal.

Speaking of CK on the side, it got me wondering what happens if a Psi-Ghost puts their intangible hand inside your body and then creates a psi-sword in it.

[Captain Shiva]

you rarely run into the issue and its easy to dodge..just go solid or dodge the burst. Its really not that killer a weakness as it seems.

Since when is dodging energy bursts easy? Most energy weapons have huge penalties to dodge and bonus nullificaiton. Psi-Ghosts don't have any special avoidance abilities either. So unless they're a Cyber-Knight on the side, the 1-hit kill potential of MD electricity is a big deal.

Speaking of CK on the side, it got me wondering what happens if a Psi-Ghost puts their intangible hand inside your body and then creates a psi-sword in it.

Then it stands to reason that the Psi-Sword is intangible as well, and therefore harmless to tangible beings. It might, however, work normally against another intangible Psi-Ghost.

[Tor]

Yeah the intangible vs intangible thing has never been very clear. It may not work like with astral projection battles.

Did someone say somewhere that psi-swords wielded by tangibles would harm an intangible though?