Fantasy O.C.C.s need more..

[drewkitty ~..~]

I have to disagree. I believe that there are plenty of O.C.C.'s available. For me characters are mainly varied by the their back story, alignment and how they behave. Sure some of them may have similar skills and abilities, yet they will act very differently and bring different things to any game session.
...snip

I agree that that the PFRPG setting does not need any more classes in it. The classes it has can be just mod'ed or tricked out by the game's GM to fit your idea for the char.

[Marrowlight]

In truth, (and sure, easy to house rule in) it would've been kinda cool if some of the more hum-drum classes were given a variant of the MoS system, to add small yet interesting differences between the regions of the world. A guy trained in the Western Empire would have X skills, while one trained in the Eastern Territories would have Y. Not really possible back when PFRPG was first conceived, but if we ever get another version, a touch of detail like that would be cool.

[Goliath Strongarm]

In truth, (and sure, easy to house rule in) it would've been kinda cool if some of the more hum-drum classes were given a variant of the MoS system, to add small yet interesting differences between the regions of the world. A guy trained in the Western Empire would have X skills, while one trained in the Eastern Territories would have Y. Not really possible back when PFRPG was first conceived, but if we ever get another version, a touch of detail like that would be cool.

That's TOO simple of a fix.. warriors from the Western Empire prefer weapon X, while those from the Great Northern Wilderness usually prefer axes, while those from south winds prefer Y...

Soldiers from Western Empire are often taught skills A, B, and C, which are disdained by Timiro, which favors skills D, E and F...

Would it be nice flavor text about regions? Sure, but it's something that (honestly) should have been covered in the various region sourcebooks

[zyanitevp]

Western Empire Janissaries vary quite substantially from soldiers in other regions...

[The Dark Elf]

Any new OCC's would have to be extremely unique.

No more fletchers, blacksmiths etc pls.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Any new OCC's would have to be extremely unique.

No more fletchers, blacksmiths etc pls.

Yes, we need a Butcher OCC... and a Baker OCC....NOT.
Agrees with TDF.
We do not the plethora of variations that some class types like there is in rifts.

[Alrik Vas]

.. warriors from the Western Empire prefer weapon X

Real.

[pblackcrow]

Um, I have addressed this in my games before...AD&D style! It began when one of us, I have forgotten who if was, but he had asked to bring in a PC and if I would help him to convert his 5th level seeker (Ranger subclass from AD&D 2nd edition's The Complete Ranger’s Handbook) to play as a character in our game world. It wasn't really a problem!!!

Since then, we have used: Player's Option: Skills & Powers and the "The Complete" books in some, not all of, our games. Like 45%. We have fun with things.

By the way, welcome to the forum's Doom!

[jade von delioch]

Long time AD&D, Rifts, PFRPG, etc. here

I love the Palladium game system, However the Fantasy games O.C.C.s are a little boring. Not many options for abilities, etc., if i play a Merc Warrior and you play a Merc Warrior there is no difference between us except maybe skill selections etc.

While this is something I am correcting in my home game by scraping the O.C.C.s and replacing them with classes converted from Pathfinder, I would really love a 3rd edition of PFRPG with classes more in line with Rifts stable of O.C.C.s that are more fleshed out with abilities, lore and options.

While they are at it, more hard cover books with all color art of the same art style/artist like D&D and Pathfinder books do would be nice for all Palladium game worlds.

So what your really saying is that you want to play pathfinder and play a character that has been designed more like a video game character than a real person.

[Hotrod]

Long time AD&D, Rifts, PFRPG, etc. here

I love the Palladium game system, However the Fantasy games O.C.C.s are a little boring. Not many options for abilities, etc., if i play a Merc Warrior and you play a Merc Warrior there is no difference between us except maybe skill selections etc.

While this is something I am correcting in my home game by scraping the O.C.C.s and replacing them with classes converted from Pathfinder, I would really love a 3rd edition of PFRPG with classes more in line with Rifts stable of O.C.C.s that are more fleshed out with abilities, lore and options.

While they are at it, more hard cover books with all color art of the same art style/artist like D&D and Pathfinder books do would be nice for all Palladium game worlds.

Skill selections make a big difference. Consider:

Mercenary 1 works as part of a small team of bounty hunters in the Western Empire capturing escaped slaves. On the hunt, his weapons of choice are nets, poisoned blow guns/darts, and clubs, since he prefers to capture his quarry intact to get his reward. While returning captured slaves, he carries a whip (for the slaves) a crossbow, and a mace (to defend his prizes). His skills include Rope Works (for tying them up), Track Humanoids, Streetwise, Use/Recognize Poison (good for capture), and Breed Dogs (training your own trackers/attack dogs is good). If he has the money, he rides on a horse (for pursuit) or a cart (for shipping his quarry).

Mercenary 2 is an engineer. Fortifications are his thing, either building, defending, or breaking them. He's good with rough carpentry and ropes, and works the construction and use of siege towers, catapults, ballistas, sapping tunnels, covered rams, et cetera. His work isn't pretty, but it does the job. On the battlefield, he uses a heavy axe and a knife as both tools and weapons.

Mercenary 3 is a rent-a-cop, part of a 'clean-up crew' company frequently hired to pacify areas of crime, rioting, recent conquests, et cetera. This character is good at investigations, undercover work, raids, searches/seizures, and arrests. He takes skills like surveillance, interrogation, Detect Ambush, Rope Works, Disguise, Intelligence, Streetwise, Concealment, Locate Secret Compartments, and Pick Locks. Also takes Forced march (formations are important for crowd control).

Mercenary 4 works as a courier, a long-distance messenger. Horsemanship is important for him, as are any skills that can help him evade ambush, pursuit, or suspicion. He also needs some education to interact with upper nobility, so heraldry is important, as well as literacy. He must be able to move quickly through territory that may or may not be friendly, so some wilderness survival and navigation skills would also be important. In addition to his weapons, he likes things that can slow or disable his enemies, allowing him to escape, such as caltrops, smoke/stink bombs, and other dirty tricks.

Mercenary 5 is a bodyguard. He's big, heavily-armored, and a little paranoid. He carries an extra-big shield and a large, intimidating weapon of some kind, often an axe or spear. Detect Ambush is probably taken twice. First Aid is also important, in case the client gets hurt. Otherwise, this guy is a body-builder, taking as many physical skills as he can.

The Mercenary is the most-versatile of the men-at-arms, and you can get all kinds of variety here that isn't a generic fighter and isn't particular to any other class. If you look through this forum, you'll find a selection of Soldier class variations, most of which can be effectively covered by the basic Soldier class.

Special class abilities are cool, but I rather enjoy the versatile approach of the basic OCC choices. There are plenty of other wrinkles you can throw into a character to give them special abilities, such as psionics, exotic species selection, magic items, the ability to make potions (see the alchemist section), et cetera.

[Cinos]

So what your really saying is that you want to play pathfinder and play a character that has been designed more like a video game character than a real person.

It's only played like a video game character if you choose to play it that way. I think they just want a little more crunch in the rules for combat options beyond "I shoot them" or "I stab them" like caster classes and pisonics (which, from a game design standpoint, are effectively the same), who get many interesting and diverse options about what to do with their turn. From a dozen "I shoot them but with magic' flavors (low power - low cost, high cost - high power, aoe, long range, with endless styles of damage types, and kickers with debuffs), to straight debuffs, combat utility options (Smoke clouds, blinds, carpet, etc), shields and defensive options (Ithan, invisibility of different flavors, energy shield, elemental immunities). Most fighter classes are just stuck with "I hit them" and if they have paired weapons, "I hit them a second time!". But that's the end of their depth of play. That's their option in a fight. They pick a weapon with the right flavor and hit their opponent with them again and again, and hope that their hitting them stat and not being hit stat are better then their opponents. Now both roads (the 'i've got a lot of options' and the 'i hit them' group) can still have flavor, depth of character, personality and out of combat talents (skills, personal charm, crafting talents, non-battle spells like charm, see aura, etc). but this isn't about that particular thing.

It's about options during a fight to make it fun and engaging for the player during the fight. Nothings very entertaining about rolling a D20 until you win or lose as the dice falls. And many GM's are very limited about what they let someone do, either because they fear opening the floodgates of broken nonsense (a rightful fear in these games), some because they don't want to do the work to create rules about those special things, and yet others who don't because they don't and that's it. For example, I'm a fighter and I want to jab the shaft of my ax to the back of my opponents knee, while hitting them with my free hand in the shoulder, then pull the axe head back, ideally, tripping the opponent and leaving them open for an over head strike. Do you allow it? There's clearly not an obvious rule, or ability on my sheet that lets me do a trip attack in most Fantasy games. It's it the same trip opened by Martial arts? Why do I need jutisu to trip a guy, heck I'm hardly using my hands.

[SmilingJack]

In some ways I actually agree

I personally would be really interested in seeing more optional character classes that aren't so typical

Like a blacksmith who obviously has massive physical strength but can craft and rework armor and weapons

A seductress , a female or male that is trained in the arts of sex and alluring others, maybe mixed with some roguish qualities

Also maybe a scribe or teacher, someone who is more focused on intelligence or studying who is a repository of tremendous knowledge, not so combat-centric but capable of devising ideas and obtaining information

[Hotrod]

Northern Hinterlands has the blacksmith OCC who is what you describe. If you make it a Dwarf, Kobold, or Jotan, you can even throw in bonuses to what you make.

Yin-Sloth Jungles has the Spy OCC. You could also build a thief with such capabilities. High MA and PB could do it.

Palladium 2ed has the Scholar OCC which is, essentially, what you describe.

What else are you looking for?

[SmilingJack]

Hotrod and ninjabunny,

Thanks for your responses

Apparently i have some extra reading i need to do and a few more books i need to buy

Lol

Thanks again for your help :0)

[Goliath Strongarm]

Long time AD&D, Rifts, PFRPG, etc. here

I love the Palladium game system, However the Fantasy games O.C.C.s are a little boring. Not many options for abilities, etc., if i play a Merc Warrior and you play a Merc Warrior there is no difference between us except maybe skill selections etc.

While this is something I am correcting in my home game by scraping the O.C.C.s and replacing them with classes converted from Pathfinder, I would really love a 3rd edition of PFRPG with classes more in line with Rifts stable of O.C.C.s that are more fleshed out with abilities, lore and options.

While they are at it, more hard cover books with all color art of the same art style/artist like D&D and Pathfinder books do would be nice for all Palladium game worlds.

Skill selections make a big difference. Consider:

Mercenary 1 works as part of a small team of bounty hunters in the Western Empire capturing escaped slaves. On the hunt, his weapons of choice are nets, poisoned blow guns/darts, and clubs, since he prefers to capture his quarry intact to get his reward. While returning captured slaves, he carries a whip (for the slaves) a crossbow, and a mace (to defend his prizes). His skills include Rope Works (for tying them up), Track Humanoids, Streetwise, Use/Recognize Poison (good for capture), and Breed Dogs (training your own trackers/attack dogs is good). If he has the money, he rides on a horse (for pursuit) or a cart (for shipping his quarry).

Mercenary 2 is an engineer. Fortifications are his thing, either building, defending, or breaking them. He's good with rough carpentry and ropes, and work the construction and use of siege towers, catapults, ballistas, sapping tunnels, covered rams, et cetera. His work isn't pretty, but it does the job. On the battlefield, he uses a heavy axe and a knife as both a tool and a weapon.

Mercenary 3 is a rent-a-cop, part of a 'clean-up crew' company frequently hired to clean up areas of crime, rioting, recent conquests, et cetera. This character is good at investigations, undercover work, raids, searches/seizures, and arrests. He takes skills like surveillance, interrogation, Detect Ambush, Rope Works, Disguise, Intelligence, Streetwise, Concealment, Locate Secret Compartments, and Pick Locks. Also takes Forced march (formations are important for crowd control).

Mercenary 4 works as a courier, a long-distance messenger. Horsemanship is important for him, as are any skills that can help him evade ambush, pursuit, or suspicion. He also needs some education to interact with upper nobility, so heraldry is important, as well as literacy. He must be able to move quickly through territory that may or may not be friendly, so some wilderness survival and navigation skills would also be important. In addition to his weapons, he likes things that can slow or disable his enemies, allowing him to escape, such as caltrops, smoke/stink bombs, and other dirty tricks.

Mercenary 5 is a bodyguard. He's big, heavily-armored, and a little paranoid. He carries an extra-big shield and a large, intimidating weapon of some kind, often an axe or spear. Detect Ambush is probably taken twice. First Aid is also important, in case the client gets hurt. Otherwise, this guy is a body-builder, taking as many physical skills as he can.

The Mercenary is the most-versatile of the men-at-arms, and you can get all kinds of variety here that isn't a generic fighter and isn't particular to any other class. If you look through this forum, you'll find a selection of Soldier class variations, most of which can be effectively covered by the basic Soldier class.

Special class abilities are cool, but I rather enjoy the versatile approach of the basic OCC choices. There are plenty of other wrinkles you can throw into a character to give them special abilities, such as psionics, exotic species selection, magic items, the ability to make potions (see the diabolist section), et cetera.

Here's my vote for Post of the Year in the PF forum.

Seriously, the individual abilities of the OCCs aren't what makes a PF character. The SKILL SELECTION is. Depending on what kind of character you want to play, you can take MOST OCCs and select skills to fit the archtype you want.

Sure, as some people are complaining, a mage can be more flexible. Name a game where it isn't? But then, that also falls on the GM to have scenarios where the non-mage can shine through. And a mage isn't going to be able to cover EVERY scenario, even with his skill selection.

As a GM, I fully except the fighter types to actually have more knowledge about FIGHTING and MILITARY situations (especially soldiers and paladins). As was proven above, Mercs are one of the most versatile OCCs when it comes to skill selection, simply because they have so little blocked off. He won't be a great medic (first aid only), or with the communication skills (but he can get languages and literacy under the scholar, AND get a bonus! So, he's only losing cryptography <IMO, he should be able to have it>, dancing, mime, sing, & write prose/poetry).

Honestly, if there's a skill that is NOT listed as available to the OCC you want, talk to your GM. See if he'll let you take it for the cost of 2 skills, or with a penalty, if it fits with your backstory.

For example, a mercenary SHOULD (IMO, both as a player and as a GM) be able to take cryptography. Especially if he was in a merc unit, was one of the more literate grunts, so spent time attached to headquarters, translating missives to send orders. Or let him get the flag signalling from high seas, if he was a merc that did a tour on board a ship (but I'd also require him to have swim, and a dislike for heavy armors).

Most GMs I know (again, MOST, not all), will allow something outside the straight book rules, as long as your backstory justifies it, and there is some balancing aspect.

Most campaigns, I houserule that ANY skill can be taken as a secondary skill, even if it's not on the list. Why? Because character CONCEPT is more important to me than a straight OCC "THIS is teh character".

[zyanitevp]

Here's my vote for Post of the Year in the PF forum.

Seriously, the individual abilities of the OCCs aren't what makes a PF character. The SKILL SELECTION is. Depending on what kind of character you want to play, you can take MOST OCCs and select skills to fit the archtype you want.

Sure, as some people are complaining, a mage can be more flexible. Name a game where it isn't? But then, that also falls on the GM to have scenarios where the non-mage can shine through. And a mage isn't going to be able to cover EVERY scenario, even with his skill selection.

As a GM, I fully except the fighter types to actually have more knowledge about FIGHTING and MILITARY situations (especially soldiers and paladins). As was proven above, Mercs are one of the most versatile OCCs when it comes to skill selection, simply because they have so little blocked off. He won't be a great medic (first aid only), or with the communication skills (but he can get languages and literacy under the scholar, AND get a bonus! So, he's only losing cryptography <IMO, he should be able to have it>, dancing, mime, sing, & write prose/poetry).

Honestly, if there's a skill that is NOT listed as available to the OCC you want, talk to your GM. See if he'll let you take it for the cost of 2 skills, or with a penalty, if it fits with your backstory.

For example, a mercenary SHOULD (IMO, both as a player and as a GM) be able to take cryptography. Especially if he was in a merc unit, was one of the more literate grunts, so spent time attached to headquarters, translating missives to send orders. Or let him get the flag signalling from high seas, if he was a merc that did a tour on board a ship (but I'd also require him to have swim, and a dislike for heavy armors).

Most GMs I know (again, MOST, not all), will allow something outside the straight book rules, as long as your backstory justifies it, and there is some balancing aspect.

Most campaigns, I houserule that ANY skill can be taken as a secondary skill, even if it's not on the list. Why? Because character CONCEPT is more important to me than a straight OCC "THIS is teh character".

I agree 100%- it is about the character- and that is what makes Palladium so cool- character and setting....

[Cinos]

My counter to that idea Goliath Strongarm is that you can have the interesting abilities added on AND still retain the nice skill dynamic. There's no reason you can't have both. You develop into two angels as well, as a Soldier with Field Armor has a different scope of options than a Ranger with Field Armorer. As it stand, they both have the same scope of abilities (assuming they can both take Field Armorer, random skill picked at random, can be any skill, Prowl, Cryptography, Navigation, etc).

Also, Iron Kingdom RPG's Mages are not flat out more versatile then other careers in that system (They pay heavily in lower overall stats in the mid and late, which directly affect skills, and having awful skill choices with no social graces built in, and no combat skills beyond their spells which is huge within the system), while avoiding the D&D 'I'm a mage so I win" syndrome so common in that system (though 4th reduced it a lot from what I hear, so that may be another example). Where as fighters can stand apart, some hitting -much- harder than other kinds of fighting classes, some attacking a bunch, some moving before and after attacks, while others can't, some getting huge bonuses with ranged weapons when they can hold still, others getting lots of anti-ranged tech, etc. Each of them are fighters (though the careers are broken up more into more well defined roles), -how- they fight, and what social skills they have access to is very different, and each one has different paths a player can take to represent their personality through the skills and styles they use. Though this more robust set of abilities, you can role play even while roll playing, creating a nice mesh of fluff and crunch, which palladium utterly lacks outside of caster classes, which is the heart of the issue.

[Hotrod]

That is a legitimate point. The stat crunching advantages of a man-at-arms, as written, are limited:

+They can use heavy armor with minimal penalties. Armor, unfortunately, becomes less and less important the higher the strike bonuses go, and strike bonuses have a way of creeping in.

+They get around 20 more SDC than other classes, on average.

+They can take H-H: Martial Arts

The situational advantages are more substantial:

+Many cultures in Palladium do not trust magic users, powerful psychics, and many kinds of religion.

+Fighting doesn't require PPE or ISP.

+Magic use tends to attract unwanted attention.

[jade von delioch]

It's only played like a video game character if you choose to play it that way. I think they just want a little more crunch in the rules for combat options beyond "I shoot them" or "I stab them" like caster classes and pisonics (which, from a game design standpoint, are effectively the same), who get many interesting and diverse options about what to do with their turn.

You should try role master than.

What I am saying is that if your not happy with the game system find another one. I say the same thing to the people who play a lot of D&D and complain about the rules. I mean, what is the point of overly "House Ruling" when there is probably a game system that does what you want the game to do already. Hell, at that point you might as well as just write one up yourself.

That being said, there is a balance to the OCCs. For one Warrior classes tend to survive longer than Magic or Psi classes do even with all there additional options.

[Cinos]

You should try role master than.

What I am saying is that if your not happy with the game system find another one. I say the same thing to the people who play a lot of D&D and complain about the rules. I mean, what is the point of overly "House Ruling" when there is probably a game system that does what you want the game to do already. Hell, at that point you might as well as just write one up yourself.

That being said, there is a balance to the OCCs. For one Warrior classes tend to survive longer than Magic or Psi classes do even with all there additional options.

I have, I actually rarely play Palladium these days, since there's only about three people who will put up with its rule set. Because I enjoy doing so, I build my own systems to run games out of and just pull setting form what ever I want, though I've been deep in IKRPG as of late (along with a bevvy of rule mods because again, it's fun for me, and my players enjoy the expanded rules). So I do the latter (though man I'm way worse and origial content outside of rules, been trying to craft my own setting for like forever).

[quote=Hotrod]The stat crunching advantages of a man-at-arms, as written, are limited:[/quote]

I want to address this, because it's not entirely about stat crunching alone. It's a part of it. All of those bonuses are Static, not Interactive. It's like if all of the attack spells where condensed into a single 'Offensive Spell' Ability for mages and just given a flat +Strike and Damage that scaled. Mages suddenly become a lot less interesting as they're all reduced to a single offensive spell. Fighters have one offensive spell, it's their weapon, and they have no option in a fight but to use it over and over. The only interaction with warriors is the role playing aspect, they're dull as mud to fight with, I'd never want to make a fighter to fight with. The only mildly dynamic part is "does charging in now get me killed" but that's a question they all ask, fighters just have to ask it harder due to their range (ranged classes ask it a lot less of course, but they likely have less get out of jail free cards like casters may). A positional game could also be presented, but without use of a map, it's dodgy, and again, it's a game every class plays during a fight.

For example, if you no longer allowed characters to make Charges, but Fighters retained it, they now have a special that they can do that others cannot. More likely you give them an improved charge. They're better at the opener than other characters, a high power or longer reaching hit gives them an edge at the start of combat they can levy against an opponent. Soldier for example could be given an ability where they can have paired weapon with a 1 Hander and a Shield, again allowing them to develop set ups that only they can do easily, or perhaps a +1 Parry with a shield to make them the best shield users in the game, focusing on defensive fighting. A special Power Attack that hits a bit harder or more accurately compared to other career's power attack. Just +2 or so damage, but it helps separate them out (Perhaps +L now that the gears are turning). Or the ability to trade defense for additional power (or accuracy for power and vice verse). These are all just simple off the cuff examples, I don't feel they go -nearly- far enough but it's a step that even just one of these would help give each career a special feel. In alternative, you can set them up like a pool of abilities, when I re-wrote ranger for my group, I made a bunch of traps, they work like spells without a P.P.E Cost, just a time and a skill check allowing rangers to make pit traps, wire traps, etc similar but more potent then the default ones provided by the skill.

[arouetta]

Piping in from the peanut gallery. If the fighters are limited to "I hit him" and "I stab him", then wouldn't a good part of that be player limitation? Some of the best and funniest times in my game is listening to the players come up with the most zany ways of tackling combat. There was a Minotaur Gladiator character that didn't wear armor and didn't bother to use weapons half the time. Combat was never dull with that player. I don't think he ever uttered the words "I hit him", there was always something descriptive.

[Hotrod]

All good points. House rules I've encountered:

+Restrict all magic/psychic classes to Basic Hand to Hand.

+Restrict Paired Weapons to Men-At-Arms.

+Change the mechanics of AR to matter more.

+Allow 'power strikes' for Men-At-Arms under certain conditions or with certain weapons. The version I saw cost two attacks, but did double damage, and allowed bonuses to count for determining critical strikes.

+Allow men-at-arms to make crippling called shots.

[Cinos]

Piping in from the peanut gallery. If the fighters are limited to "I hit him" and "I stab him", then wouldn't a good part of that be player limitation? Some of the best and funniest times in my game is listening to the players come up with the most zany ways of tackling combat. There was a Minotaur Gladiator character that didn't wear armor and didn't bother to use weapons half the time. Combat was never dull with that player. I don't think he ever uttered the words "I hit him", there was always something descriptive.

I do this a lot when I play as well, and it can be a lot of fun, but only if you've got a GM willing to work with you on that, while creating a balanced result. Like I noted in my Second (?) Post, some GM's don't like doing this, are bad at doing this, or some other reason. In addition, even WITH specials, you can still do this, so there's no subtraction happening, you're just adding more choice to the player, and giving a guideline comfort zone for a GM as there's more examples they can draw from to guide them. In addition, some players don't feel comfortable asking about things like that because it's no how -they- like to play, and it's nice to give them a fall back option instead. The literal only draw back is the overhead work load for the writer and play tester.

[kiralon]

I have allowed characters to do special moves, but i usually make them part of a combo set.
So you want to be able to poke people in the eyes no problem, its part of a 2 part combo and will give your opponent obscured vision (1/2 invis negatives). First you have to punch him in the stomach and succeed, then you get to poke him in the eyes with your next attack, its a called shot so you need to get 16 or higher. If you fumble you hurt your fingers instead

[Hotrod]

Even the vanilla game, sans house rules, offers some nifty abilities and special attacks that require no magic, psionics, or racial abilities:

Extraordinarily strong characters can pick up and hurl very heavy objects at people. If your character has a PS of 25, a 500-lb object can go 8 feet and do 3D6*10 SDC damage. That's gonna leave a mark!

W.P. Net is a gem. Impossible to parry without specific weapons, a thrown net will seriously handicap any foe for 2-5 melee rounds of beat-down time. Great for taking down a single hard target, or for escaping from such a foe (cannot run when entangled).

Use Poison: The great equalizer! Unless your target is immune (uncommon), you can give your target blurred vision, convulsions, coughing, sneezing, dizziness, fever, itching, mental confusion, nausea, paralysis, unconsciousness, stomach cramps, weakness, and/or hallucinations. And that's just the list of natural, non-lethal(no alignment restriction) herbal potions that a non-magic user could make up with the Holistic Medicine skill. Combine this with any sharp weapon, arrow, dart, whatever.

Horse Attacks: If your horsemanship skill is high enough that you don't get thrown off, you get two attacks for the price of one!

Field Armorer allows a character to deactivate, repair, and reset traps. In my book, that allows them to make and set them as well, but even a strict interpretation allows them to use recovered, existing traps as a poor man's ward. Track and Trap Animals can also be used to set traps for people.

Breed Dogs: Teach Fufu to attack bad guys. Teach Sparky, too. Dogs are a great backup/early warning system (animals psionics are awesome). Also great for tracking your quarry. It's not a special attack, per se, but it's pretty useful.

Paired Weapons: virtually doubles your combat abilities if used properly. Simultaneous attack/parry is great for one-on-one, and dual attack is great if you're not being attacked yourself.

With the proper selections and applications of skills, you can overcome the vast majority of foes.

[zyanitevp]

Even the vanilla game, sans house rules, offers some nifty abilities and special attacks that require no magic, psionics, or racial abilities:

Extraordinarily strong characters can pick up and hurl very heavy objects at people. If your character has a PS of 25, a 500-lb object can go 8 feet and do 3D6*10 SDC damage. That's gonna leave a mark!

W.P. Net is a gem. Impossible to parry without specific weapons, a thrown net will seriously handicap any foe for 2-5 melee rounds of beat-down time. Great for taking down a single hard target, or for escaping from such a foe (cannot run when entangled).

Use Poison: The great equalizer! Unless your target is immune (uncommon), you can give your target blurred vision, convulsions, coughing, sneezing, dizziness, fever, itching, mental confusion, nausea, paralysis, unconsciousness, stomach cramps, weakness, and/or hallucinations. And that's just the list of natural, non-lethal(no alignment restriction) herbal potions that a non-magic user could make up with the Holistic Medicine skill. Combine this with any sharp weapon, arrow, dart, whatever.

Horse Attacks: If your horsemanship skill is high enough that you don't get thrown off, you get two attacks for the price of one!

Field Armorer allows a character to deactivate, repair, and reset traps. In my book, that allows them to make and set them as well, but even a strict interpretation allows them to use recovered, existing traps as a poor man's ward. Track and Trap Animals can also be used to set traps for people.

Breed Dogs: Teach Fufu to attack bad guys. Teach Sparky, too. Dogs are a great backup/early warning system (animals psionics are awesome). Also great for tracking your quarry. It's not a special attack, per se, but it's pretty useful.

Paired Weapons: virtually doubles your combat abilities if used properly. Simultaneous attack/parry is great for one-on-one, and dual attack is great if you're not being attacked yourself.

With the proper selections and applications of skills, you can overcome the vast majority of foes.

Great notes Hotrod! Sure wish you had joined Rebuilt- will try again next opening.