Zero-Level Adventuring

[Killer Cyborg]

From another thread:

And where does it say you CAN'T start out "at level 0"?

Fact is some of us think it could be a fun and interesting thing to do. Some of us think it's a stupid idea. One group isn't going to win the other over, so the arguments become invalid.

You could certainly try it as long as everyone was on board, but it sounds like an excruciatingly slow starting campaign to me.

--flatline

Hm.
Why's that?

The whole exercise just screams "TEDIOUS" to me.

The real world analog would be roleplaying a bunch of college students taking their classes and doing homework.

Now imagine that none of the students had the same major and so that there was no overlap between their classes or homework.

--flatline

Huh.
I don't picture most OCCs as gaining the entirety of their skills via classes and homework.
An apprentice Cyberknight, for example, would probably be a squire, not a student. And squires traditional went with their masters into battle, as well as running potentially interesting errands.
Sure, a lot of squire work was putting saddles on horses and such, but you wouldn't have to focus the game around that, just like you don't focus a Cyber-Knight campaign around that kind of thing.

For CS Grunts and other soldiers, there are any number of adventure ideas that could be run around not-quite-ready soldiers who either find trouble, or who are found by trouble.
Just off the top of my head, there are movies like:
Heartbreak Ridge
Southern Comfort
Stripes
Toy Soldiers
Iron Eagle
Taps

One of the common themes of adventure stories in general is that of an apprentice/student/neophyte who suddenly has to take on the role of the master/teacher/adult.
In the movie Dragonslayer, the apprentice wizard who can barely cast a spell has to slay a dragon.
In ALL of the Harry Potter novels/movies, Harry is still a student, still learning to be a wizard.
In Red Dawn, the main characters aren't even studying to be soldiers, or really studying to be much of anything yet; they're just high school students.
In Star Wars, Luke has the potential to be a Jedi... but I wouldn't say that he was the equivalent of even a Level 1 Jedi yet.

But there was considerable adventure in all of those kinds of stories, and they weren't particularly slow-moving or tedious.

Running adventures for 0-level characters doesn't mean that you're not running ADVENTURES, just that you have different material to work with.

[flatline]

All your examples follow a single character or groups of characters studying the same thing.

Now imagine a party with a mage, a man at arms, and a psychic all trying to complete their training.

Suddenly there's no natural way to carry the story forward except to gloss over their individual training so that you can focus on what they can do together. If you're going to gloss over their training, then you're not really roleplaying their individual development as was the original point of starting characters still in training. Instead, you're just starting with weaker characters.

Which is fine, if that's what you wanted to do.

--flatline

[Akashic Soldier]

I have been working on a Rifter Article for a while with the current working title Zero-level Adventure (Its highly likely to change).

In this players are given the option of being introduced into the game at Level 0 and they select one of four "training" O.C.C.s - each of which have their own unique little gifts. There is of course one for Men-at-Arms, Adventurer & Scholars, Practitioner of Magics, and Psychics. Likewise, in this same article I have included the Tulpa R.C.C.; which for those unfamiliar with the term (it is rather obscure) is a spiritual creature (from Tibetan mysticism) born from the raw power of imagination and cosmic accident. The Tulpa is an entirely real creature; although if it does not earn enough of an emotional charge (levels up to first level) it eventually fades away. The Tulpa R.C.C. is a point buy system wherein a player can choose what they want their character to be able to do (similar to Bio-E) and just jump right on in and play.

However, when these O.C.C.s (and the Tulpa) reach first level they have the option of choosing another O.C.C. but retain some of their earlier abilities (simple things like +10% to experience) and in the case of the Tulpa it can either "solidify" or "evolve" into another R.C.C. of its choice as might be appropriate now that the player (I made this as a stepping stone for youngsters who want ease of play) has a little more experience with how the game works and what they might like and what they don't. Of course, the G.M. always has the final word and they shouldn't allow a Tulpa to turn into an adult Dragon or a Splugorth.. but you get the idea.

This allows characters to start out "almost" finished their training (or as farm boys or lowly unimportant people) and then eventually grow into great heroes. Likewise, players that choose to take the slow route gain a notable advantage (eventually) over players that just start out with their training complete. This is not to reflect reality (so don't complain about that ) it is supposed to be a reward for starting out weaker than normal and working your way up.

I could go into more details but its easier if you just read it in the Rifter when I submit it (assuming they're interested of course!)

[Killer Cyborg]

All your examples follow a single character or groups of characters studying the same thing.

Now imagine a party with a mage, a man at arms, and a psychic all trying to complete their training.

Well, right off the bat, you wouldn't have to.
You could have a party where everybody IS studying the same sort of thing.

Suddenly there's no natural way to carry the story forward except to gloss over their individual training so that you can focus on what they can do together. If you're going to gloss over their training, then you're not really roleplaying their individual development as was the original point of starting characters still in training. Instead, you're just starting with weaker characters.

Which is fine, if that's what you wanted to do.

--flatline

Do you feel that role-playing individual development is possible in the course of a normal game, where everybody starts at first level?

[flatline]

All your examples follow a single character or groups of characters studying the same thing.

Now imagine a party with a mage, a man at arms, and a psychic all trying to complete their training.

Well, right off the bat, you wouldn't have to.
You could have a party where everybody IS studying the same sort of thing.

That works out fine if everyone wants to play the same type of character.

I've just never been in a group that did that. The times we took similar characters were when the GM dictated to us the characters we would play.

Suddenly there's no natural way to carry the story forward except to gloss over their individual training so that you can focus on what they can do together. If you're going to gloss over their training, then you're not really roleplaying their individual development as was the original point of starting characters still in training. Instead, you're just starting with weaker characters.

Which is fine, if that's what you wanted to do.

--flatline

Do you feel that role-playing individual development is possible in the course of a normal game, where everybody starts at first level?

Sure it's possible. But I've never seen it done without glossing over most of it. When a character levels up, do you roleplay through him practicing all the skills that just improved? I've played with groups that roleplayed through finding a teacher or book when learning a new secondary or OCC related skill, but the improvement of existing skills was just assumed because "surely the character has been using or practicing these skills" even though the majority of those skills were never ever rolled against in the course of play.

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

All your examples follow a single character or groups of characters studying the same thing.

Now imagine a party with a mage, a man at arms, and a psychic all trying to complete their training.

Well, right off the bat, you wouldn't have to.
You could have a party where everybody IS studying the same sort of thing.

That works out fine if everyone wants to play the same type of character.

Depends on what you mean by "the same type of character."
You could have a group of CS trainees, for example, with different MOSs and that all ultimately emerge with different OCCs, even if they're all participating in the same kind of training at the time.
You could have a City Rat, a Juicer Wannabee, a trainee ISS agent on his first undercover assignment, a Vagabond, and a Body Fixer, all trying to join the same gang for different reasons.
You could have a Techno-Wizard, a Line Walker, a Shifter, and a Battle Mage who are all traveling to a far-off place in order to study and learn an unusually rare spell.
You could have a Wilderness Scout, a Vagabond, a City Rat, and a Rogue Scholar who are all training to join the same militia.

There's all kinds of stuff you can do.
There's a lot of overlap between different classes that could potentially bring a group of fairly different people to the same place at the same time to learn the same thing.

I've just never been in a group that did that.

I have.
Like any other kind of adventure or party makeup, it can be quite fun, or quite lame.
It all comes down to the people involved.
And not everything is for everybody.

Suddenly there's no natural way to carry the story forward except to gloss over their individual training so that you can focus on what they can do together. If you're going to gloss over their training, then you're not really roleplaying their individual development as was the original point of starting characters still in training. Instead, you're just starting with weaker characters.

Which is fine, if that's what you wanted to do.

--flatline

Do you feel that role-playing individual development is possible in the course of a normal game, where everybody starts at first level?

Sure it's possible. But I've never seen it done without glossing over most of it. When a character levels up, do you roleplay through him practicing all the skills that just improved? I've played with groups that roleplayed through finding a teacher or book when learning a new secondary or OCC related skill, but the improvement of existing skills was just assumed because "surely the character has been using or practicing these skills" even though the majority of those skills were never ever rolled against in the course of play.

--flatline

Do you feel that this kind of glossing-over is a weakness with those role-playing sessions?
If not, then why would it be a weakness with zero-level characters?

Basically, why the shift in focus when working from Level 0 to Level 1 than when working from Level 1 to Level 2?
In each case, the character is growing, presumably.

[Jay05]

It would certainly be a bonding experience.

[Comrade Corsarius]

Now imagine a party with a mage, a man at arms, and a psychic all trying to complete their training.
--flatline

But can you imagine the local pub? Every friday night: A mage, a man at arms, and a psychic walk into the bar. The barman looks at them and says 'Is this some sort of joke?'

[flatline]

If you were to start a character at level 0, how would you handle character creation?

--flatline

[Mech-Viper Prime]

If you were to start a character at level 0, how would you handle character creation?

--flatline

Some parts would remain unchanged, only thing that would be must affected is the skills
You could have a number of skills non available to them because of trainee status or just occ skills without the bonus% and none occ related skills.

[Killer Cyborg]

If you were to start a character at level 0, how would you handle character creation?

--flatline

There's no official way (in Palladium), so you'd have to come up with something.
The basic idea would be that you'd have the framework for the OCC, but not have it all fleshed out.

Pick a character class (preferably something from RUE), and I'll see what I can come up with.

[flatline]

If you were to start a character at level 0, how would you handle character creation?

--flatline

There's no official way (in Palladium), so you'd have to come up with something.
The basic idea would be that you'd have the framework for the OCC, but not have it all fleshed out.

Pick a character class (preferably something from RUE), and I'll see what I can come up with.

How about Shifter since that OCC has skills, spells, and OCC abilities to consider.

Oh, and starting equipment.

--flatline

[ShadowLogan]

If you were to start a character at level 0, how would you handle character creation?

--flatline

There's no official way (in Palladium), so you'd have to come up with something.
The basic idea would be that you'd have the framework for the OCC, but not have it all fleshed out.

Pick a character class (preferably something from RUE), and I'll see what I can come up with.

Well by the rules when you multi/change-class you have to be Level 0 for the apprenticeship phase, so there is something to work with in that regard.

[nilgravity]

I think this is a great idea perfect for MA or a Rifts MMO. Characters all start out in basic/boot camp (they can even pick if they are in a magic friendly or coalition military). So everyone starts out as a Recruit RCC then when they level up pick their specialty. Coalition would be Samas, Grunt,etc while magic friendly would offer Headhunter, Juicer, Crazy, Glitter Boys. Both sides would have full conversion borgs

[Zamion138]

I think it would work great if all the players were under the same npc teacher/mentor.
Temporal wiz and warriors under a raider
Cyber knights as squires under one high to mid level knight
Bunch of juicer wannabes under a juicer.
Bunch of kids under dad/mom as glitter boy pilot.
Young people under direction of a ninja clan.
Couple young native americans under their tribe.
Some street kids under a blackmarketeer.
And so on ......could be fun

[Killer Cyborg]

If you were to start a character at level 0, how would you handle character creation?

--flatline

There's no official way (in Palladium), so you'd have to come up with something.
The basic idea would be that you'd have the framework for the OCC, but not have it all fleshed out.

Pick a character class (preferably something from RUE), and I'll see what I can come up with.

Well by the rules when you multi/change-class you have to be Level 0 for the apprenticeship phase, so there is something to work with in that regard.

I was thinking the same thing myself.

[Blue_Lion]

I think it would work great if all the players were under the same npc teacher/mentor.
Temporal wiz and warriors under a raider
Cyber knights as squires under one high to mid level knight
Bunch of juicer wannabes under a juicer.
Bunch of kids under dad/mom as glitter boy pilot.
Young people under direction of a ninja clan.
Couple young native americans under their tribe.
Some street kids under a blackmarketeer.
And so on ......could be fun

There is no reason they whould all have to be under the same mentor. It could be something happens that forces several budding what evers out. Such as a natural disaster perhaps a supernatural preditor killed thier faimiles and they strike out to catch it or one of the kids finds a treasure map and him and his friends head out to find it. What you listed basicaly has an entire pary playing almost he same OCC witch could resault in a limited group. Now some campians are limited in themself but to say it only works with limited OCC seams short sighted.

[Galroth]

I think this is a great idea perfect for MA or a Rifts MMO. Characters all start out in basic/boot camp (they can even pick if they are in a magic friendly or coalition military). So everyone starts out as a Recruit RCC then when they level up pick their specialty. Coalition would be Samas, Grunt,etc while magic friendly would offer Headhunter, Juicer, Crazy, Glitter Boys. Both sides would have full conversion borgs

Why would the magic friendly side have no magic using classes?

[Tor]

there are any number of adventure ideas that could be run around not-quite-ready soldiers who either find trouble, or who are found by trouble.
Just off the top of my head, there are movies like:

Heartbreak Ridge
Southern Comfort
Stripes
Toy Soldiers
Iron Eagle
Taps

Isn't Saving Private Ryan and Starship Troopers also kinda like this?

One of the common themes of adventure stories in general is that of an apprentice/student/neophyte who suddenly has to take on the role of the master/teacher/adult.
In ALL of the Harry Potter novels/movies, Harry is still a student, still learning to be a wizard.
In Star Wars, Luke has the potential to be a Jedi... but I wouldn't say that he was the equivalent of even a Level 1 Jedi yet.

Harry and Luke (and Ichigo Kurosaki, Monkey D. Luffy, Naruto Uzumaki, to use some anime examples) as examples though, fit the trope of being the exceptionally gifted student who for mysterious reasons have amazing raw power that allow them to excel against trained and experienced villains, I wonder if all PCs would fit this bill.

[Killer Cyborg]

there are any number of adventure ideas that could be run around not-quite-ready soldiers who either find trouble, or who are found by trouble.
Just off the top of my head, there are movies like:

Heartbreak Ridge
Southern Comfort
Stripes
Toy Soldiers
Iron Eagle
Taps

Isn't Saving Private Ryan and Starship Troopers also kinda like this?

Hm.
It's been a while since I saw Saving Private Ryan, but from what I remember, they were mostly fully-trained soldiers in that one, the equivalent of level 1+ characters.

With Starship Troopers, the first part of the movie, where they're going from school into the military, and receiving their training, would be close... but less exciting.
I don't recall if they were rushed into combat prematurely, or if they were fully trained (i.e., Level 1+) when they went to the bug world.
If they were fully trained, then it's not the same thing.

One of the common themes of adventure stories in general is that of an apprentice/student/neophyte who suddenly has to take on the role of the master/teacher/adult.
In ALL of the Harry Potter novels/movies, Harry is still a student, still learning to be a wizard.
In Star Wars, Luke has the potential to be a Jedi... but I wouldn't say that he was the equivalent of even a Level 1 Jedi yet.

Harry and Luke (and Ichigo Kurosaki, Monkey D. Luffy, Naruto Uzumaki, to use some anime examples) as examples though, fit the trope of being the exceptionally gifted student who for mysterious reasons have amazing raw power that allow them to excel against trained and experienced villains, I wonder if all PCs would fit this bill.

Not all would, but it wouldn't always be necessary.
Hermione and Ron kept up with Harry pretty well, and they didn't have his advantages, for example.

[Comrade Corsarius]

Hm.
It's been a while since I saw Saving Private Ryan, but from what I remember, they were mostly fully-trained soldiers in that one, the equivalent of level 1+ characters.

Yep. There's no 'mostly' about it. If you washed out of training, you either were kept training until you succeeded or you were sent to a desk job. Everyone there was minimum level 1 soldier.

With Starship Troopers, the first part of the movie, where they're going from school into the military, and receiving their training, would be close... but less exciting.

In the book, people actually die in training (two, I believe, while on a search for a lost platoon mate).

I don't recall if they were rushed into combat prematurely, or if they were fully trained (i.e., Level 1+) when they went to the bug world.
If they were fully trained, then it's not the same thing.

Even in crazy movie adaptions of classic Heinlein books, soldiers are fully trained before going into combat. Particularly in the book that gave us the term 'powered armour'.

The battle for Klendathu happens, but everyone is fully trained. 'Green' soldiers are just level 1. They're not untrained.

In Star Wars, Luke has the potential to be a Jedi... but I wouldn't say that he was the equivalent of even a Level 1 Jedi yet.

I'd agree. Particularly in the first movie, as Luke doesn't ever use the lightsabre except while inside the Falcon. Luke is still multiclassing as Lvl9 whiny-boy/Lvl1 pilot/Lvl0 Jedi

Harry and Luke (and Ichigo Kurosaki, Monkey D. Luffy, Naruto Uzumaki, to use some anime examples) as examples though, fit the trope of being the exceptionally gifted student who for mysterious reasons have amazing raw power that allow them to excel against trained and experienced villains, I wonder if all PCs would fit this bill.

Yes. I believe that PB often says that player characters are considered to be exceptional, rather than the rule.

Hermione and Ron kept up with Harry pretty well, and they didn't have his advantages, for example.

Deus Ex Machina.

[Zamion138]

I think it would work great if all the players were under the same npc teacher/mentor.
Temporal wiz and warriors under a raider
Cyber knights as squires under one high to mid level knight
Bunch of juicer wannabes under a juicer.
Bunch of kids under dad/mom as glitter boy pilot.
Young people under direction of a ninja clan.
Couple young native americans under their tribe.
Some street kids under a blackmarketeer.
And so on ......could be fun

There is no reason they whould all have to be under the same mentor. It could be something happens that forces several budding what evers out. Such as a natural disaster perhaps a supernatural preditor killed thier faimiles and they strike out to catch it or one of the kids finds a treasure map and him and his friends head out to find it. What you listed basicaly has an entire pary playing almost he same OCC witch could resault in a limited group. Now some campians are limited in themself but to say it only works with limited OCC seams short sighted.

I know but these are just some ideas for a game, personaly i perfer a more limited scope in game play as i dont see a mystic knight and a shifter wanting to roam around with a city rat and a vagabond inless they were good childhood firends and even then probaly not.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Yes. I believe that PB often says that player characters are considered to be exceptional, rather than the rule.

so they say, but given the random character generation, this only sometimes pans out. I've seen characters rolled who barely qualified to walk and chew gum at the same time

[MurderCityDisciple]

Hey folks,

Finding this thread interesting thusfar. Why, cuz I'm finally going to dip my toes into RIFTS. I still need a few more books...the RUE for one, but will be getting that skulking beast soon.

Anyway, me being new to running RIFTS (wanna start small) I came up with what I call a 'Stephen King' intro, you know where as kids the protagonists have an adventure and then later in life regroup after a long separation for another adventure.

The setup is gonna be all the characters are going to start out in their early to mid-teens (simplified characters on 3X5 cards) and then really bad things happen. Essentially, a unit of skelebots and coalition thugs rampage through their little fortified hamlet. Some of the characters are going to be captured (maybe) the rest will run for the hills. But as the bad things are going down, all the PC's swear vengeance and in 10 years to meet at the very spot they made their vow to unleash it.

This way the first game is going to get up and running right off the bat.

Later on I am going to get together with my players and secretly build their characters and backstory without the other players knowing what the other ones are going to be coming up with. So, when the game officially starts it's going to be a surprise as to who and what shows up...be it a borg, mage, coalition, street rat....who knows.

That's all I gotta say for now...let me know if you think my idea is hammy, stupid or crazy.

[Athos]

Yes. I believe that PB often says that player characters are considered to be exceptional, rather than the rule.

so they say, but given the random character generation, this only sometimes pans out. I've seen characters rolled who barely qualified to walk and chew gum at the same time

This is so true...

We usually go with 4d6 and drop the lowest or reroll 1's or something to give PCs a boost, and typically when I GM, I will let a player reroll his abilities if he didn't get at least one over 15.

With exploding dice, rolling a six after a 16-18 can make for a very powerful character. Not sure this can be handled elegantly with a point buy system, so I think we stuck with random rolling.

One idea I have toyed with is that everyone rolls, and then the best set of rolls is used by everyone, just arranged how they want. This gives an equality to the PCs, yet still keeps some randomness. I plan on using this for my next game, will let you know how it turns out.

[Akashic Soldier]

Hey folks,

Finding this thread interesting thusfar. Why, cuz I'm finally going to dip my toes into RIFTS. I still need a few more books...the RUE for one, but will be getting that skulking beast soon.

Anyway, me being new to running RIFTS (wanna start small) I came up with what I call a 'Stephen King' intro, you know where as kids the protagonists have an adventure and then later in life regroup after a long separation for another adventure.

The setup is gonna be all the characters are going to start out in their early to mid-teens (simplified characters on 3X5 cards) and then really bad things happen. Essentially, a unit of skelebots and coalition thugs rampage through their little fortified hamlet. Some of the characters are going to be captured (maybe) the rest will run for the hills. But as the bad things are going down, all the PC's swear vengeance and in 10 years to meet at the very spot they made their vow to unleash it.

This way the first game is going to get up and running right off the bat.

Later on I am going to get together with my players and secretly build their characters and backstory without the other players knowing what the other ones are going to be coming up with. So, when the game officially starts it's going to be a surprise as to who and what shows up...be it a borg, mage, coalition, street rat....who knows.

That's all I gotta say for now...let me know if you think my idea is hammy, stupid or crazy.

There are rules for "playing children" in Chaos Earth: Rise of Magic if you are interested!

Brilliant idea by the way. I've toyed around with it myself too.

[Nightmask]

You can have 10 in every stat and still be exceptional.

This is a good point. It's the OCC powers, abilities and or weapons and equipment that make the character "exceptional".

If it's the equipment alone that's making them exceptional then the character really isn't exceptional now is it?

[Damian Magecraft]

You can have 10 in every stat and still be exceptional.

This is a good point. It's the OCC powers, abilities and or weapons and equipment that make the character "exceptional".

If it's the equipment alone that's making them exceptional then the character really isn't exceptional now is it?

That depends on what you are comparing the Character to...

[nilgravity]

I think this is a great idea perfect for MA or a Rifts MMO. Characters all start out in basic/boot camp (they can even pick if they are in a magic friendly or coalition military). So everyone starts out as a Recruit RCC then when they level up pick their specialty. Coalition would be Samas, Grunt,etc while magic friendly would offer Headhunter, Juicer, Crazy, Glitter Boys. Both sides would have full conversion borgs

Why would the magic friendly side have no magic using classes?

I think that would be a different training program and wouldn't start as a Recruit RCC. Though it could be cool to make an Men-at-arms O.C.C. that specializes in using T.W. weapons but are otherwise not magic users.

[MurderCityDisciple]

Hey folks,

Finding this thread interesting thusfar. Why, cuz I'm finally going to dip my toes into RIFTS. I still need a few more books...the RUE for one, but will be getting that skulking beast soon.

Anyway, me being new to running RIFTS (wanna start small) I came up with what I call a 'Stephen King' intro, you know where as kids the protagonists have an adventure and then later in life regroup after a long separation for another adventure.

The setup is gonna be all the characters are going to start out in their early to mid-teens (simplified characters on 3X5 cards) and then really bad things happen. Essentially, a unit of skelebots and coalition thugs rampage through their little fortified hamlet. Some of the characters are going to be captured (maybe) the rest will run for the hills. But as the bad things are going down, all the PC's swear vengeance and in 10 years to meet at the very spot they made their vow to unleash it.

This way the first game is going to get up and running right off the bat.

Later on I am going to get together with my players and secretly build their characters and backstory without the other players knowing what the other ones are going to be coming up with. So, when the game officially starts it's going to be a surprise as to who and what shows up...be it a borg, mage, coalition, street rat....who knows.

That's all I gotta say for now...let me know if you think my idea is hammy, stupid or crazy.

There are rules for "playing children" in Chaos Earth: Rise of Magic if you are interested!

Brilliant idea by the way. I've toyed around with it myself too.

As far as playing as kids and investing in Chaos Earth (which I may eventully) remember I'm not a seasoned, crusty RIFTS GM, so the kids thing is going to only be one session, maybe not even that.

As a GM I usually try to hit the ground running. Many of my games start in an action scene right off the bat.

I'm pleased that you like my intro idea too, BTW. Cthanx

[Noon]

I think it's not level but plausibility of aquiring powers. Getting some ability that it'd seem plausible to get it in real life is kind of more interesting than a power that 'just exists' (ie, cause a wizard did it) and you just get out of the blue. Getting powerful powers just out of the blue feels alot like just declaring yourself king, as a kid. Both exhilirating and yet empty.

You can have 10 in every stat and still be exceptional.

This is a good point. It's the OCC powers, abilities and or weapons and equipment that make the character "exceptional".

If it's the equipment alone that's making them exceptional then the character really isn't exceptional now is it?

You miss the point. Not everyone on rifts earth has energy rifles and MDC armor, in fact, a vast majority of them don't. KS expressed (can't remember what book) that a person with a laser pistol and a suit of MDC armor can come in and take over the average village.

So that makes your PC, with their powers, weapons, and equipment, exceptional as compared to Average Joe Schmoe of Rifts Earth.

That's statistically rare, rather than exceptional.

I don't think 'exceptional' is simply being used in a dry emperical measurement of occurance. More in regard to whether something is engaging and interesting.

Some dude can be statistically rare (in regards to equipment), yet as dull as dishwater. I wouldn't call him exceptional.

[Nekira Sudacne]

You can have 10 in every stat and still be exceptional.

Sure, but i'm talking about a character who has single 10 as their highest attribute..and that was after he loaded up on a few physical skills. and an IQ of 6 or 7

Don't get me wrong, the player was a great sport about it, and he actually outlived some other characters, but the character wasn't exceptional at anything, at best he was solid average.

But as others have said, being a hero is about mindset, not raw ability. That, and he played a robot pilot, which does a lot to mitigate physical weakness's.

[tmikesecrist3]

I Can see this as being an interesting idea, And I can see how it works with defrent ooc types. About the only way I could make it work would be to make the pcs form the same village or kingdom.. the kingdom Idea would be like the heralds of Valdmar where many Defrent people are trained in the capitol With the Army academy, the main universality for the kingdom, the healers academy even the bards academy right there. also a school of psi development. and the bards all right there in the Capitol on the grounds of the palace no less.. So that brings all these people in close contact it allows friendships to form may of them lasting. and for them to work together to solve problems. in that way you could have a man at arms, a mage a psi, and adventurer. Taking a history class, or a language class being tought by a bard.. see what I have been getting at?.....

in the village you can have a mage or mystics aprintess, With a squier learning form a disindint glitter boy pilot or cyber knight (though that dont work quit so well for the cyber knight unless hes old and simi retired.) you can also have some one training for the miltia, some one learning to be an operater or a Amorer. or a tw or some form of healer.. and since villages have at most what a few hundred people in them. it berings them all into faily close contact...

[Comrade Corsarius]

I once played another game system where we played '0 level'. We played 2-3 sessions (one mini-adventure) and by the end of it, we'd all been 'given' our classes by the GM. Mind you, we had already given our preferences, but basically the guy who wanted to be a knight would ride a horse at every opportunity. The guy who was going to be a barbarian wore furry underpants and not much else, and spoke with bad grammar. The guy who wanted to be a wizard/sorcerer was always fascinated by how things worked, and wrote them into a book. And so on and so forth.

If you want to do it, your GM will find a way, and it will be cool.