Standardized HTH Commando

[blade76]

I consider due to the extra skill cost that HTH Commando MUST be a more advanced form of hand to hand combat ,than standard martial arts.

Could anyone design a standard progression with accompanying combat skills and perhaps MA powers to supplement moves?

[slade the sniper]

I consider due to the extra skill cost that HTH Commando MUST be a more advanced form of hand to hand combat ,than standard martial arts.

Could anyone design a standard progression with accompanying combat skills and perhaps MA powers to supplement moves?

Well usually HTH Commando would be an attempt to model a type of hand to hand combat that eventually leads to a purely mechanistic combat style that has a few moves for unarmed combat, knife fighting, sticks, improvised weapons, rifles with bayonets, handguns and then using carbines and shotguns for advanced CQC. Going off of that it would be pretty lacking as a straight combat style against a generic martial artist until higher levels, but it makes up for it since you get a lot more breadth of knowledge.

Take, as an example, US Army Combatives...as a combat technique for bar fights and showing off...it sucks. It pretty much is designed to open space to shoot someone with your primary weapon, open space to use a secondary weapon (knife or pistol) or achive a clinch, attempt a takedown, use strikes to gain dominant position and then go for a submission (or complete the move and acheive destruction of a limb or cause unconsciousness/death in the opponent). That is all that it does. Nothing fancy at all...

A few takedowns, a few strikes, no "kicks" (some foot and knee work), a lot of focus on ground work, some joint locks, a few chokes and some basic blocks. That is it. You can learn it all in 5 days. Not much a "martial art" BUT...

You do get hit...a lot
You do learn a lot
You fight against everyone regardless of age, strength, size or sex...get used to it
The techniques work...while unarmed, while using a knife, or while wearing body armor a helmet and carrying a rifle wearing IR goggles. The techniques are simple for a reason.
The purpose is to open space to shoot them (the best option), stab them (second best option) or subdue/injure them enough to get up and shoot them, stab them or keep them from killing you long enough for your buddy to show up and shoot them.

This is the basic point of most of the "commando" unarmed techniques...do unto them before they do unto you, do unto them permanent or lethal damage immediately using guns, knives or fists (in that order). Yes, they can only do 5 things, but they can do them dead ass tired, in the dark wearing full gear and have them be just as effective as in a well lit dojo with pads.

A kenpo expert is going to clean my clock...but the point is that I will kill him before he ever knows what is going on as he rolls out of his bed at 0200 bleeding from the two flash bangs I just tossed in his bedroom. That is the difference between Martial Arts and Commando HtH.

If I were going to write up a generic Commando HtH:

attribute requirements: none
alignment restrictions: none
skill cost: 1
attacks per melee: 2
escape moves: roll with punch/fall/impact
defensive moves: dodge, parry, automatic parry
hand strikes: strike (punch) 1d4 damage
foot attacks: kick 1d6 damage, tripping/leg hooks, shin rake 1d4 damage and enemy loses one attack, foot stomp 1d4 damage and enemy loses one attack
special attacks:
Pin/incapacitate
body flip/throw - 1d4 damage
trip/takedown - no damage
blood chokes (standing, rear, ground) -
air chokes (standing, rear, ground)
grapple target and shoot
grapple target and stab
holds/locks:
arm lock
body hold
neck lock
leg lock
wrist lock
ankle lock
modifiers to attack: critical strike
multiple attackers: 1 maximum
preferred range: grappling
simultaneous attack: attacking without defense

These bonus are always used, regardless of visibility or equipment carried
These bonuses can be combined with the following WP's while in melee combat:
WP Rifle/Shotgun
WP Knife/dagger (NOT when thrown)
WP Pistol (of any type)
WP Sub-Machinegun
WP Bayonet (when attached to a rifle/carbine use bonuses for WP Staff but can not be thrown with any accuracy in this configuration. When not attached, use WP Knife/Dagger bonuses)

level 1: +2 to Parry/Dodge
level 2: +1 attack per melee
level 3: +2 to strike
level 4: +2 to damage
level 5: +2 to Parry/Dodge
level 6: +1 attack
level 7: +2 to strike
level 8: +2 to damage
level 9: +2 to Parry/Dodge
level 10: +1 to attack
level 11: +2 to strike
level 12: +2 damage
level 13: +2 Parry/Dodge
level 14: +1 attack
level 15: +2 to strike

At 15th level you will have:
6 Attacks per melee
+8 to Parry/Dodge
+8 to Strike
+6 to Damage

-STS

[drewkitty ~..~]

I consider due to the extra skill cost that HTH Commando MUST be a more advanced form of hand to hand combat ,than standard martial arts.

Could anyone design a standard progression with accompanying combat skills and perhaps MA powers to supplement moves?

PB has already done this. I believe it was 1st presented in the CS War Campaign book and it is the RGMG and RUE.

No, it is not "more adv." the H2HMA, but it is a MA variant.

What sts posted was a quasy Martial Arts Form (MAF) Commando, not a h2h.

[thorr-kan]

If I ever ran a modern SDC game, I'd use the following skill costs:
H2H:B - 1
H2H:E - 2
H2H:MA - 3
H2H:A - 3

H2H:Commando, from CS War Campaign - 4, because it gives some add'l bonus to SDC and attributes.

H2H:x, from Rifts Japan - 4, because it gives some add'l bonus to SDC and attributes. Consider them advanced training in martial arts without enough training to get funky superpowers.

[blade76]

As an advanced form of combat ,would it include special skills such as sniper training or military skills to supplement hth skills?

[thorr-kan]

As an advanced form of combat ,would it include special skills such as sniper training or military skills to supplement hth skills?

I wouldn't, since it's not really a H2H form like Ninjas and Superspies presents. I suppose you could design an advanced form that includes a skill program. It would follow on from the Judo and Akido forms in Rift Japan vs Ninjas and Superspies.

[slade the sniper]

As an advanced form of combat ,would it include special skills such as sniper training or military skills to supplement hth skills?

No, since the melee weapon skills and sniper skills are different skills within the game...also, there is no overlap to provide some synergy.

-STS

[slade the sniper]

OK, looking over the HtH Commando in World Book 11, the one in the book is definitely a pretty effective combat form that has a lot of training involved and a heavy emphasis on judo/jujitsu (which are closely related as well).

The one I put up is just a derivative of MACP. I would make a PC have HtH commando since it is more "fun"

Something interesting would be to do a write up of all the psuedo-martial art combat systems that aren't such as:

SPEAR - Spontaneous Protection Enabling Accelerated Response
SCAR - Special Combat Aggressive Reactionary System
LINE - Linear Infighting Neural-override Engagement
MACP - Modern Army Combatives Program (the one I did above)
MCMAP - Marine Corps Martial Arts Program

While I did it up as a MAF, it might be better to say that they are skills and give straight bonuses like wrestling or boxing...

If that would be the case:
General combat skills in basic training would be HtH Basic

Each of the following would be a skill that could be just added on to another combat system.

SPEAR -Gain a +2 on initiative

SCAR -bonus of 1d6 SDC, if the user chooses to not parry or block an attack, they will hit the opponent with an automatic critical

LINE -Death Blow on 19-20, automatic critical from behind

MACP - can use a knife/pistol/shotgun/rifle in melee combat and not lose bonuses

MCMAP - This may be the exception since they are actually attempting to create a real system...I would call it HtH Commando or HtH Expert??

These are just ideas...I only have first hand knowledge of MACP and the MCMAP I have seen seems to have fallen victim to the need to train everyone, which means that the quality of use is dependent on how much the student cared...if they just did it to pass a school, then they didn't learn anything. MACP suffers from the same problem.

-STS

[thorr-kan]

Actually, I take back the cost of H2H:Commando. Looking over my notes, it is costed at 3 skills, per H2H:A and H2H:MA.

[Mantisking]

Something interesting would be to do a write up of all the psuedo-martial art combat systems that aren't such as:

SPEAR - Spontaneous Protection Enabling Accelerated Response
SCAR - Special Combat Aggressive Reactionary System
LINE - Linear Infighting Neural-override Engagement
MACP - Modern Army Combatives Program (the one I did above)
MCMAP - Marine Corps Martial Arts Program

While I did it up as a MAF, it might be better to say that they are skills and give straight bonuses like wrestling or boxing...

If that would be the case:
General combat skills in basic training would be HtH Basic

Each of the following would be a skill that could be just added on to another combat system.

SPEAR -Gain a +2 on initiative

SCAR -bonus of 1d6 SDC, if the user chooses to not parry or block an attack, they will hit the opponent with an automatic critical

LINE -Death Blow on 19-20, automatic critical from behind

MACP - can use a knife/pistol/shotgun/rifle in melee combat and not lose bonuses

MCMAP - This may be the exception since they are actually attempting to create a real system...I would call it HtH Commando or HtH Expert??

Interesting ideas you have there. It might be a good idea to link them to certain HtH (Agent) styles by requiring them to have one or more as a pre-requisite.

Also, someone did a write-up for MCMAP here.

[slade the sniper]

Something interesting would be to do a write up of all the psuedo-martial art combat systems that aren't such as:

SPEAR - Spontaneous Protection Enabling Accelerated Response
SCAR - Special Combat Aggressive Reactionary System
LINE - Linear Infighting Neural-override Engagement
MACP - Modern Army Combatives Program (the one I did above)
MCMAP - Marine Corps Martial Arts Program

While I did it up as a MAF, it might be better to say that they are skills and give straight bonuses like wrestling or boxing...

If that would be the case:
General combat skills in basic training would be HtH Basic

Each of the following would be a skill that could be just added on to another combat system.

SPEAR -Gain a +2 on initiative

SCAR -bonus of 1d6 SDC, if the user chooses to not parry or block an attack, they will hit the opponent with an automatic critical

LINE -Death Blow on 19-20, automatic critical from behind

MACP - can use a knife/pistol/shotgun/rifle in melee combat and not lose bonuses

MCMAP - This may be the exception since they are actually attempting to create a real system...I would call it HtH Commando or HtH Expert??

Interesting ideas you have there. It might be a good idea to link them to certain HtH (Agent) styles by requiring them to have one or more as a pre-requisite.

Also, someone did a write-up for MCMAP here.

Yeah, that MCMAP has to be toned down a bit...I would give it a go, but sort of pressed for time...maybe I can do all this up next week as a new post if there is any interest.

-STS

[blade76]

Can any one create a 15 level progression Elite Martial Art with martial art powers, bonus skills to simulate the training given military operatives of a heroes/unlimites/NS/Galaxy Unlimited game a friend is starting that allows agents to be capable with the right tools and tactics to fight metas and other superhumans?

[blade76]

This is what I had in mind for what a commando fighting style should be like.The elite of the elite bar none aside ninja superspies martial arts that require years to masters.

he'heren
This is the style of combat used by the royal guards; created long ago by a now extinct clan, its name and meaning are long forgotten. Those that train to become royal guards are indoctrinated into one of the toughest training regimes in the galaxy. Thousands of push-ups, pull-ups, chin-ups and other types of exercises turn the female warrior into a goddess of war.
Character Bonuses:
Add 5 to PS
Add 3 to PE
Add 2 to PP
Add 4 to PB
Add 20 to Speed
Attacks per melee: 6
Escape Moves: Roll, Auto-roll, Break/fall, Maintain balance
Basic Defenses: Dodge, Auto-Dodge, Parry, Auto-Parry
Advanced Defenses: Combination Parry/Attack, Multiple dodge, Body flip/throw, Disarm
Hand Attacks: Strike, Upper cut, Power punch, Elbow, Backhand, Quick Jab (deals only 1 point of damage)
Foot Attacks: Kick, Snap kick, Axe kick, Leg hook/trip, Crescent kick, Leg Sweep, Round house, Jump kick.
Throws: Body flip, Leg grapple, Body tackle,
Holds/Locks: Pin
Special Attacks: Querl Strike: the Querl is a strange tiger-like creature from Sheherezad. Its barbed tail is used in combat like a battering ram slicing open the bellies of its foes. The Atorians have taken this into their style of combat; by piercing her fingers together into a cone-like shape the royal guard will attack vital spots on her opponent. Victim must save vs. poison (14) or feel woozy and light headed, duration: 1D4 melees penalties: victim is -3 to strike, parry and dodge
Parry lock: works like a parry/attack, however the attack goes straight into a lock.
Weapon Skills: Zyriki: a doubled bladed Feheran halberd
Level Advancement and Bonuses:
1st Querl strike 2D6, Karate kick 2D6, Punch 2D4, +2 parry and dodge, +3 strike, +3 to pull/punch, roll and fall
2nd +2 Initiative, +2 hold/lock, +2 flip/throw, Paired Weapons, jump kick, +2 Circular parry, +2 Multi-parry
3rd +1 attack, KO 19-20, Critical 19-20, Deathblow 20, +2 damage, +10 SDC, +2 hold/lock, +1 disarm
4th +1 Initiative, Querl Strike 3D6, +1 strike, parry and dodge, +1 to pull/punch, roll and fall,
5th +2 to Auto-dodge, +3 to Multi-dodge, +1 to Circular parry and multi-parry, +1 to roll/Breakfall
6th +1 attack, combination parry/attack, Deathblow 19-20, KO 18-20, +2 strike, +1 damage
7th Critical 18-20, paired weapons, +5 SDC, +2 Initiative, Critical from behind, +2 hold/lock
8th +1 to flip/throw, KO 17-20, +3 to Roll/Breakfall, +1 to hold/lock, +1 Auto-dodge, +1 disarm
9th +1 attack, +2 strike, Deathblow 18-20, +1 to Circular parry and multi-parry, +2 multi-dodge
10th Querl strike 4D6, +5 SDC, +1 parry and dodge, critical 17-20, +1 flip/throw, +1 to holds/locks
11th KO 16-20, Critical 17-20, +2 damage, +2 disarm, +1 to pull/punch, roll and fall
12th +5 SDC, +1 attack, Deathblow 17-20, +1 auto-dodge, +2 parry and dodge, +1 initiative
13th Querl strike 5D6, +1 to Circular parry and multi-parry, +1 multi-dodge
14th +1 attack, +2 strike, Deathblow 16-20, KO 15-20, Critical 16-20, +1 disarm
15th Querl strike 6D6, Deathblow from behind, +1 to hold/lock, +2 flip/throw, +2 Breakfall

this is based on the atorian warrior culture.Can anyone come up with a martial art comparable to this without power-gaming which I find myself prone to doing .I need one for a campaign I'm about to run .

[Alrik Vas]

Yeah, you went a little overboard there.

Just drop a lot of the excess and lower some of the numbers.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Like with the OP blade76 you presented your thoughts as a MAF (which would take Years to learn) not a h2h.
And L1 chars don't start out as RAMBO...they have to build up to it, so drop the starting APM and bonuses.

Just the special attack would take years to master.

Sorry, but you'd have to tone the MAF down a bit to be just power gaming.

[Tor]

I thought the cost for HtH skills often depended on which OCC was buying it.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I thought the cost for HtH skills often depended on which OCC was buying it.

Since the topic is talking N&S and MC and talking about Martial Art Forms it is the individual MAF that sets how long it takes to learn.

And....

Since you are talking about the h2h's outside the N&S setting, no the character template does not necessarily. The HU2 skill listings set the number of skill slots each h2h takes up.
Yes, in most of the older books the CC skills do have footnotes about how much h2h upgrades would be for that CC.

[blade76]

If my previously mentioned martial art is too powerful . Could you help me design one? HTH Commando costs 5 skill slots in my campaign to HTH:martial art 3 skills.So try to understand the skills and techniques would have to be better to justify 5 skill slots.