Additional Physical Training Focuses

[RockJock]

I like it. Most of the other classes have several options as expansions or additions, the Physical Training could use a few.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Eh, I have to say no to meditative and zen combat.

It's PHYSICAL training, not mental training. Time for a new power catagory

[Nekira Sudacne]

Eh, I have to say no to meditative and zen combat.

It's PHYSICAL training, not mental training. Time for a new power catagory

Are you going to help make this new Power Category, oh great wise and powerful Nekira?

sure. what you need help on?

[RockJock]

Just look at mental mastery as just another path. Many characters in comics could fit on this path instead of the more physical one. Mantis, Karnak and many others could fit into something along these lines.

[acreRake]

I think this is a really good idea (more options for PT). I'll have to compare them to the original options to see if i'd change anything...

[Nekira Sudacne]

Just look at mental mastery as just another path. Many characters in comics could fit on this path instead of the more physical one. Mantis, Karnak and many others could fit into something along these lines.

Sure, it's "a path"

a mental one.

not a physical one.

no go.

[RockJock]

So make it a seperate sister catagory to Physical Training.

[Nekira Sudacne]

So make it a seperate sister catagory to Physical Training.

Uh, isn't that what I already suggested in my first post?

[RockJock]

It is exactly what you said. I'm saying if you want it as an expansion of PT, or as a new class it doesn't matter. It seems to be a viable idea however you want to do it.

[Nekira Sudacne]

It is exactly what you said. I'm saying if you want it as an expansion of PT, or as a new class it doesn't matter. It seems to be a viable idea however you want to do it.

Thanks, and I agree completely. I'd like to more expansion on meditative abilities myself, but am unsure of how to proceed.

Well, you should really ask yourself at what level can you develop meditative powers without just becoming psychic.

Then, keep them below that level. otherwise it's just another psionic class.

[Guest]

It is exactly what you said. I'm saying if you want it as an expansion of PT, or as a new class it doesn't matter. It seems to be a viable idea however you want to do it.

Thanks, and I agree completely. I'd like to more expansion on meditative abilities myself, but am unsure of how to proceed.

Well, you should really ask yourself at what level can you develop meditative powers without just becoming psychic.

Then, keep them below that level. otherwise it's just another psionic class.

How did psionics get equated to meditation?

WAY back in BTS1, Meditation was a psionic power (of sorts), initially needed to use psionics or magic, later this was changed to the standard restorative version we see today, still useful in recovering I.S.P (and still a psionic power in BTS2, along with an advanced version), among other things, used by psychics, chi generating martial artists, and spell casters.

[Nekira Sudacne]

It is exactly what you said. I'm saying if you want it as an expansion of PT, or as a new class it doesn't matter. It seems to be a viable idea however you want to do it.

Thanks, and I agree completely. I'd like to more expansion on meditative abilities myself, but am unsure of how to proceed.

Well, you should really ask yourself at what level can you develop meditative powers without just becoming psychic.

Then, keep them below that level. otherwise it's just another psionic class.

How did psionics get equated to meditation?

WAY back in BTS1, Meditation was a psionic power (of sorts), initially needed to use psionics or magic, later this was changed to the standard restorative version we see today, still useful in recovering I.S.P (and still a psionic power in BTS2, along with an advanced version), among other things, used by psychics, chi generating martial artists, and spell casters.

OK so maybe I should change the name of Meditative Mastery to something that doesn't have an arcane or psychic connection. Because I didn't intend for it to be psychic, just showing another focus of Physical Training that involved mental discipline as much as physical discipline.

actually, I wasn't talking about what Kerseru mentioned at all.

I was only pointing out that going into the "powers of the mind gained though meditation" and "psionics" is a very, very fine line to walk.

I mean, take the ancient masters powers. Very psionic like with the death trance, ect.

[Nekira Sudacne]

It is exactly what you said. I'm saying if you want it as an expansion of PT, or as a new class it doesn't matter. It seems to be a viable idea however you want to do it.

Thanks, and I agree completely. I'd like to more expansion on meditative abilities myself, but am unsure of how to proceed.

Well, you should really ask yourself at what level can you develop meditative powers without just becoming psychic.

Then, keep them below that level. otherwise it's just another psionic class.

How did psionics get equated to meditation?

WAY back in BTS1, Meditation was a psionic power (of sorts), initially needed to use psionics or magic, later this was changed to the standard restorative version we see today, still useful in recovering I.S.P (and still a psionic power in BTS2, along with an advanced version), among other things, used by psychics, chi generating martial artists, and spell casters.

OK so maybe I should change the name of Meditative Mastery to something that doesn't have an arcane or psychic connection. Because I didn't intend for it to be psychic, just showing another focus of Physical Training that involved mental discipline as much as physical discipline.

actually, I wasn't talking about what Kerseru mentioned at all.

I was only pointing out that going into the "powers of the mind gained though meditation" and "psionics" is a very, very fine line to walk.

I mean, take the ancient masters powers. Very psionic like with the death trance, ect.

Well yes, but I want to avoid any comparison to the Ancient Master. I don't think Meditative Mastery is that powerful.

I didn't say do so. I was just giving an exsample.

[Guest]

It is exactly what you said. I'm saying if you want it as an expansion of PT, or as a new class it doesn't matter. It seems to be a viable idea however you want to do it.

Thanks, and I agree completely. I'd like to more expansion on meditative abilities myself, but am unsure of how to proceed.

Well, you should really ask yourself at what level can you develop meditative powers without just becoming psychic.

Then, keep them below that level. otherwise it's just another psionic class.

How did psionics get equated to meditation?

WAY back in BTS1, Meditation was a psionic power (of sorts), initially needed to use psionics or magic, later this was changed to the standard restorative version we see today, still useful in recovering I.S.P (and still a psionic power in BTS2, along with an advanced version), among other things, used by psychics, chi generating martial artists, and spell casters.

OK so maybe I should change the name of Meditative Mastery to something that doesn't have an arcane or psychic connection. Because I didn't intend for it to be psychic, just showing another focus of Physical Training that involved mental discipline as much as physical discipline.

actually, I wasn't talking about what Kerseru mentioned at all.

I was only pointing out that going into the "powers of the mind gained though meditation" and "psionics" is a very, very fine line to walk.

I mean, take the ancient masters powers. Very psionic like with the death trance, ect.

How is it you can misspell my name even when it's quoted into the text of the reply you're making?

...since no one is offering anything remotely tanglible as anything more than just criticism, I'm going to abandon this thread.

Actually, I like the concepts, and feel they're a welcome addition to the Physical Training power category.

[RockJock]

The problem is PT or in this case a possible MT class is always going to be very similar to the Ancient Master, various internal and external N&SS martial arts, and some psychic powers. All of the above can be used to make a character with very similar abilties. It is the difference in attitude and specific abilities that make the difference.

Take a Psychic with TK Leap, TK Punch, Intuitive Combat, Induce Sleep, Sixth Sense, Death Trance, Impervious to Fire, Impervious to Heat, Bioregeneration, Impervious to Poisons, Summon Inner Strength, Resist Fatigue, Supress Fear, and Invisiable Haze with HtH Martial Arts, Boxing and a few other physical skills. This character could easily be played as a monk trained martial artist. Very different from the standard Ancient Master, but background wise, could be a different path. Using N&SS martial arts and the Dedicated Martial Artist gives you the ability to tailor a very internal or external martial artist, or a mix. Hell, if you allow it, give a MA to the psychic.

Since the standard PT HtH is based on a combination of aggressive or defensive martial arts, your Zen and Meditatiive would be a combination of internal martial arts with bits and pieces learned from different masters.

I really need to dig out the various "ninja" chracters my group put together for a game. Every player picked the class they were going to play out of a hat, and had to create a ninja to compete in a series of trial to win an ancient blade. It was just a weekend game, but was fun. All the characters wrote up their background history and represented different ninja clans with different lines of thinking. We had a Psychic, A Dedicated Martial Artist with Ninjitsu, a Secret Operative with Leopard style Kunk Fu in exchange for a block of skills, and a Super Soldier with stealth abilties(something like Untrackable, and Unnoticable). Basically the different classes could do the same job, but did it differently, a very fun one off game.

[RockJock]

What are you looking at for the PT only physical skills?

[RockJock]

Are you thinking something like the skill specializations from one of the Rifters? The improved versions of Prowl, WPs, that sort of thing? In my own games I allow PT and Anceint Master characters to use the physical and even some of the mental skills found in various Rifters. I'm talking yoga, tai-chi, and that sort of thing. I limit the availability of these skills primarily to those classes, and maybe also to the Ancient Weapons Master to give them a little boost in comparison to the powered classes.

[RockJock]

I'll see if I can figure out what Rifter I'm talking about, but as I recall, there are advanced prowl and WP skills, as possibly others, but I just can't remember. It would be a decent starting point for other skills. Somewhere, and it might even be in the above Rifter article, I could swear there was a distance running and sprinting skill.

[acreRake]

How did psionics get equated to meditation?

WAY back in BTS1, Meditation was a psionic power (of sorts), initially needed to use psionics or magic, later this was changed to the standard restorative version we see today, still useful in recovering I.S.P (and still a psionic power in BTS2, along with an advanced version), among other things, used by psychics, chi generating martial artists, and spell casters.

OK so maybe I should change the name of Meditative Mastery to something that doesn't have an arcane or psychic connection. Because I didn't intend for it to be psychic, just showing another focus of Physical Training that involved mental discipline as much as physical discipline.

But in Mystic China, Meditation is presented as a skill that anyone (with accesses to the proper training, especially in HU) could learn. I would just use that skill instead of making a new one.

[znbrtn]

how did i miss this stuff?
gimme a few minutes to read it and i'll give you an opinion.

edit: okay, great stuff all around. only a few minor problems with it, and they're mostly in the style i like most:

1) in rock body, it says that you gain incredible weight, but it doesn't specify what that is. since you gain 20 sdc per level, would you also gain 20 lbs per level?

2) in steel hard skin, it gives you an AR bonus at level 18? is that just a mistake? fix or elaborate, please.

3) in the dangers of low P.E. i didn't see any regeneration rate for your P.E. did you intend to have it recovered at a certain rate, or does a Xi-Kung master have to go on bed rest to get it back, or what?

and to make it a full compliment sandwich, i gotta say i love the esoteric combat style.

[NMI]

*bump* I wish someone would provide an opinion...a negative one is at least an opinion.

I like them. I like the MMA the best of them. And yeah, P.E. rejuvenation needs to be noted.

[RockJock]

I don't see how I missed this either. They all seem usable. The MMA seems to be my favorite as well. All of the focus and combat forms seem to be fairly well balanced and fun.

[NMI]

So with the "Esoteric Combat" style, the most attacks per melee anyone would ever have are the 2 for living + 1 assuming the player takes the "Internal Training"?

[Guest]

and for you purists out there (Kuseru) I figure all styles get Critical Strike, Knockout/Stun and Critical Strike From Behind just for completionists sake. I do wish Palladium would be better arbiters on this, but alas, that is what we get.

Actually, a while back, I figured out the basic moves of having or not having styles:

A: The Universal Combat Moves (i.e. Simultaneous Attack, Grab, Sneak Attack, and Long Range Attack) Everyone gets them, no notation is needed at this time.

B: The Basic Combat Moves: Dodge, Parry, Strike (Punch), Kick Attack, Pull Punch*, and Critical Strike. Everyone gets them, however they do need notation in the style.

C: The General Moves: Roll with Punch/Fall/Impact, Automatic Parry**, Death Blow***, and Knockout/Stun. These are the remaining most commonly appearing moves.

*Pull Punch, as we know, has different target numbers for untrained, hand to hand skilled, and martial artist characters.
**Despite the oft-repeated claim, not everything gets Automatic Parry.
***Death Blow is often the most limited of the generally available combat moves.

[Guest]

and for you purists out there (Kuseru) I figure all styles get Critical Strike, Knockout/Stun and Critical Strike From Behind just for completionists sake. I do wish Palladium would be better arbiters on this, but alas, that is what we get.

Actually, a while back, I figured out the basic moves of having or not having styles:

A: The Universal Combat Moves (i.e. Simultaneous Attack, Grab, Sneak Attack, and Long Range Attack) Everyone gets them, no notation is needed at this time.

B: The Basic Combat Moves: Dodge, Parry, Strike (Punch), Kick Attack, Pull Punch*, and Critical Strike. Everyone gets them, however they do need notation in the style.

C: The General Moves: Roll with Punch/Fall/Impact, Automatic Parry**, Death Blow***, and Knockout/Stun. These are the remaining most commonly appearing moves.

*Pull Punch, as we know, has different target numbers for untrained, hand to hand skilled, and martial artist characters.
**Despite the oft-repeated claim, not everything gets Automatic Parry.
***Death Blow is often the most limited of the generally available combat moves.

So Critical Strike From Behind isn't an universal combat move? That strikes me as odd since all attacks from behind, I presumeed, were automatically critical strikes.

Several games don't even include the mechanic. But no, not all attacks from behind are critical strikes.

[shiiv-a]

i'll have to go over the styles in further detail.

BUT ... unlike the others i tend to think that the styles that seem to stress 'mental' advancement #3 and 4 from the first set of style enhancements as being 'physical'.

it doesn't matter that the 'psionics' mimic some of the ancient abilities that masters of old used to practice. PT's may be all combat and 'kick your teeth down your throat' style of fighting, the thing is there HAS to be some sort of balance to equal out the raw ability to kill. thus meditation ... or Sen practices or devoting some of the actions to a 'gentler' path could and SHOULD be allowed. not everyone is going to be into the 'paste your brains on the wall' type of player. let alone pull it off .. so why NOT have someone that is capable of doing things that could be assumed to be PSIONIC in nature?

psionics come from somewhere, and master martial artists of old could defy gravity and run across water for brief bits of time. why slot it to the garbage just cause 'it can't be possibly done' .. come on. this is HU .. anything is possible. you already have mutations and aliens ... why not 'tricks from years gone by' that have NOTHING to do with whats normally done via ... magic or psi ... ?

good job ...

[Stone Gargoyle]

I think rather than make you adapt combat from Ninjas and Superspies, there should be a definitive book for HU2 on just combat which would include different types of Martial Arts for HU2 to cross the middle ground between HtoH:Martial Arts and Ancient Master. Trying to adapt N&SS is difficult. The number of attacks is off and the inclusion of chi makes it a mess to convert.

[acreRake]

i'll have to go over the styles in further detail.

BUT ... unlike the others i tend to think that the styles that seem to stress 'mental' advancement #3 and 4 from the first set of style enhancements as being 'physical'.

it doesn't matter that the 'psionics' mimic some of the ancient abilities that masters of old used to practice. PT's may be all combat and 'kick your teeth down your throat' style of fighting, the thing is there HAS to be some sort of balance to equal out the raw ability to kill. thus meditation ... or Sen practices or devoting some of the actions to a 'gentler' path could and SHOULD be allowed. not everyone is going to be into the 'paste your brains on the wall' type of player. let alone pull it off .. so why NOT have someone that is capable of doing things that could be assumed to be PSIONIC in nature?

psionics come from somewhere, and master martial artists of old could defy gravity and run across water for brief bits of time. why slot it to the garbage just cause 'it can't be possibly done' .. come on. this is HU .. anything is possible. you already have mutations and aliens ... why not 'tricks from years gone by' that have NOTHING to do with whats normally done via ... magic or psi ... ?

good job ...

It's called the "Psionic Power Category"

[NMI]

I actually plan on using "Xi-Kung Training" for a pre-gen character I am making for the Open House. I will let you know how it goes.

[RockJock]

I test played a few characters this weekend, and I was impressed on how well things went down.

[NMI]

I actually plan on using "Xi-Kung Training" for a pre-gen character I am making for the Open House. I will let you know how it goes.

Do you like the level progression of some of the Body Hardening abilities?

yes

[RockJock]

That was one I used actually. I threw a combat athlete, and meditative martial artist as NPCs that met the group while fighting hoods. None of the baddies were all that powerful, but there were a ton of them. Basically the PTs were street level heroes for the neighborhood.

I'll try to throw a few more in later adventures just to see how things go. The combat athlete seemed to work well against street thugs, but I don't know how well he would have faired against supes. The character didn't have anything that really set him apart, but he was a heck of a brawler. In my experience that is a problem inherent in the PT in general.

[NMI]

I managed to save all of these to one file on my computer again after it crashed. (It wasnt wearing a seatbelt).

[NMI]

Havent had a real chance to use any of them, but I do like what I see.

[NMI]

Wouldnt "Power Stomp" be more apt to replace "Power Kick"?

[Her0man0]

i love this subject, id have to say physical training is one of my favorite categories, especially with these super abilities offered.

this has inspired me to write up some ancient master focuses....

[GreatArelius1]

Excellent stuff. I'm planning on using the Combat Athlete training for an upcoming character. Can't wait to see what else you have planned.

[AlanGunhouse]

This is good stuff, in general, but I am not sure I would have used PE for the basis of the special abilities on those body hardening techniques. I would probably use PPE or ISP instead, making it a semi-mystical ability similar to the power punch of the normal PT character. In fact, it might be better if that cost PPE ore ISP to use too...or even Chi if you wanted to introduce it to HU.

[AlanGunhouse]

There are advantages to doing it any of the various ways, but the reason I suggest ISP is that they use ISP in place of Chi in Rifts China...and there really is not that much logical difference between saying that a mind over body technique that is based on discipline and training is "purely physical" or is "tapping latent psychic potentials". There are, after all, physical psychic abilities that can do a number of mind over body effects.

[AlanGunhouse]

Merely establishing a precedent. Perhaps you could create the meditative martial artist as a new Psionic sub-class rather than as a physical training class.

[AlanGunhouse]

I am rather busy on another topic at the moment, if that was intended as a Challenge.

[AlanGunhouse]

Well, let us see what you have in the Psychic Powers that is appropriate:
Appropriate Physical Powers: Deaden Senses (4), Death Trance (1), Impervious to Cold (2), Impervious to Fire (4), Impervious to Poison (4), Mind Block (4), Night Vision (4), Resist Fatigue (4), Resist Hunger (2), Resist Thirst (6), Summon Inner Strength (4), Telekinetic Leap (8), Telekinetic Lift (6), telekinetic punch (6)
Appropriate Healing Powers: Bio-Regeneration (Self) (6)
Appropriate Sensitive Powers: Intuitive Combat (10), Meditation (0), Presence Sense (4), Sense Time (2), Sixth Sense (2), Speed Reading (2), Total Recall (2)
Appropriate Super Psionics: Bio Manipulation (10), Hypnotic Suggestion (6), Psionic Invisibility (10), Psychic Omni-sight (15), Telekinetic Force Field (30)

[Her0man0]

you could make a psychic character with all of these by the rules, even a latent psychic, i dont see how this would be a special warrior psychic

and by the way, the psychic warrior PCC in the rifter and the Psyscape wasnt all the great, someone called a psychic warrior should have mad skills like the Lanator Hunter RCC from the psyscape book

[AlanGunhouse]

True, the trick would be giving the character some specific bonuses for limiting them to the given psychic abilities. I have not worked those out yet.

[Mantisking]

A couple of comments.

RE: Xi Kung Combat. Why develop a whole new power system when Chi is already in use? It seems a little redundant and adds another layer of book-keeping to a character that uses this ability. Also, I know you were worried about Chi being "overpowered" but all the powers seem to work only on the character rather than on opponents so I don't think you have to worry there.

RE: Shoot Fighting. You should add Bodyblock/Tackle to the list of combat skills.

RE: Trap Fighting. You should add Entangle to the list of combat skills.

[AlanGunhouse]

Well...POSITIVE chi only works on the character, or on creatures with Negative Chi. Negative Chi is pretty dangerous stuff...

[Mantisking]

Well...POSITIVE chi only works on the character, or on creatures with Negative Chi. Negative Chi is pretty dangerous stuff...

That's not the point. None of the powers granted by the ability work outside of the character. The character cannot project his chi onto other things/beings so being "overpowered" is a non-issue.