The BH-42 Sniper Rifle

[Killer Cyborg]

People are always trying to come up with super-duper sniper weapons for Rifts, or complaining about the existing weapons lack of range, firepower, etc.
I generally just tell them that sniping isn't about killing one-shot-killing enemy Armor, and point out that anything MDC is Armor.

But people keep making up new, crappy, munchy sniper weapons that they think are cool.

If you're going to do something, do it right.

And so I bring to you, the BH-42 Sniper Rifle, fresh from good people at Bullhunter Arms:

BH-42 Variable Frequency Laser Sniper Rifle
Weight: 8.0 lbs
Mega-Damage: The rifle has three different power settings: 1d4x10 SDC, 2d6 MD, and 4d6 MD.
The SDC setting and the 2d6 MD settings also each have a three-shot pulse option, inflicting 3d4x10 SDC and 6d6 MD respectively. Keep in mind that strike bonuses for pulses are halved on Aimed and Called shots (round down), and that certain bonuses (like from the Sniper skill) are not applicable when firing pulses.
Rate of Fire: Single Shot or 3-shot pulse.
Effective Range: 4,000 Feet
Payload: 20 (MD) shots per short clip, 50 shots per long clip
6 SDC shots count as one MD shot. 1 2d6 MD shot counts as one shot. 1 4d6 MD shot counts as 2 MD shots.
Pulses count as three shots of the appropriate type (there is no pulse for the 4d6 MD setting).
Laser Targeting Sight: +3 to strike on an Aimed shot. 4,000' range.
Bonuses to Strike: Due to the the superior balance and craftsmanship, the BH-42 receives a +1 bonus to strike on aimed shots.
In the case of a custom-made BH-42 that is designed for a specific individual this +1 bonus does not count as a "standard" bonus to strike. For the purpose of dice rolls, the bonus is now a Natural bonus to strike, meaning that a die roll of 19 or 20, on a 20-sided die, before other bonuses to strike are applied, is actually read as a Natural 20 and is a critical strike. In the case where the roll is actually a Natural 20, before the Natural Strike Bonus is added, the critical damage is 3x normal instead of 2x.
In addition, a customized BH-42 so greatly complements that person's skill and natural ability that the Aimed or Called Shot strike bonus from the shooter's Sniper skill (where applicable) also counts as a Natural bonus.
This Natural bonus is applied first, modifying the initial die roll before any other considerations are added. In the case that a Natural 1 is rolled, this means that it counts instead as a Natural 3, meaning that it is not an automatic miss.
Cost: 42,000 credits for a basic model, 63,000 credits for a rifle customized to a specific individual

(This weapon has been created by combining a number of existing features from various weapons:
The JA-11 has a single-shot sniper laser that does 4d6 MD at 4,000'. The 50-shot long clip for 2d6 laser blasts comes from the L-20. The laser targeting system is listed as an option in RUE. The strike bonus from balance is present in a number of weapons, but is deliberately less than some of the bonuses present in Wilk's laser weapons because Wilk's is king of laser weapons and should stay that way. The Natural strike bonus is present in some of the weapons from Viggo's Custom Firearms, though I modified its effects in two different ways: I allowed the effect in a laser rifle (because I could think of no reason not to), and I allowed the balance to enhance the user's Sniper Skill into a stacking Natural Bonus. This last feature is the only actual power creep in this weapon, but I don't feel that it is that significant. Personally, I feel that the Sniper skill itself should be modified to be a Natural bonus.)

Feel free to post any relevant thoughts, comments, criticisms, rants, or haikus.


Edit: Added price
Edit: Boosted price.

[ZINO]

Nice if you have more weapons ideas post them!!!!

[sHaka]

Before I vote, how much are the fine folks at Bullhunter Arms going to rinse me for on this particular model?

[Killer Cyborg]

Before I vote, how much are the fine folks at Bullhunter Arms going to rinse me for on this particular model?

D'oh!

Forgot to add a price.

I'll total it up and fix that for you.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Very nice.

If I had to make a complaint, then it would be that the customized cost might be too low.

[taalismn]

I'll let you know after the test-drive...

[taalismn]

Not bad! The only complaint I have is that the weapon itself seems to impart bonuses that make the skill of the user less relavant. I think the whole 'Natural' bonus is what's doing it for me. Namely, anyone with a weapon proficiency can pick the weapon up (At level 1 say) and only be able to miss if they roll a 1 or a 2 (As opposed to the 1-4). I agree that the construction and quality of a weapon is a key feature to being a successful marksman, but not so much so that it makes the skill of the user negligible.

One question - because it's a laser weapon, should there really be a penalty for using the weapon in pulse mode since there isn't any recoil?

Hmmm...maybe the target jumping around as a pulse shot boils it makes for burst inaccuracy?

[taalismn]

Hmmm...maybe the target jumping around as a pulse shot boils it makes for burst inaccuracy?

That makes sense. Or perhaps this is to account for the natural movement you get when you're trying to maintain a sight picture (From breathing if you don't hold your breath during your shot, heartbeat and pulse or natural 'shakiness').

'Fuzzy logic' smart-sighting and an 'active' stock and foregrip furniture that corrects for the gunner's twitching would eliminate this, but would add to the expense..

[Killer Cyborg]

Not bad! The only complaint I have is that the weapon itself seems to impart bonuses that make the skill of the user less relavant. I think the whole 'Natural' bonus is what's doing it for me. Namely, anyone with a weapon proficiency can pick the weapon up (At level 1 say) and only be able to miss if they roll a 1 or a 2 (As opposed to the 1-4). I agree that the construction and quality of a weapon is a key feature to being a successful marksman, but not so much so that it makes the skill of the user negligible.

Missing on a 1-4 only works for modified 1-4s according to the rules. It's always been that way.
Back when you could make an Aimed shot in one attack and get a +3 bonus to strike, anybody with a basic WP could pick up a gun and miss only on a roll of 1 (which would be modified to a 4, which would miss).
If the gun they picked up had a laser sight or other bonuses to aimed shots, they couldn't miss at all (at close range, anyway) unless the target dodged.
As of RUE, though, a natural 1 always misses, you don't get as good a strike bonus at first level, aimed shots take 3 attacks, and you need a modified 8+ to hit with ranged weapons.
In the case of this weapon, you'd spend 2 attacks to make an aimed shot. You wouldn't automatically miss on a natural 1 (if the weapon is customized for you), but you'd still need a modified 8+ to hit the target.
The weapon itself has +1 from balance, +3 from targeting.
The shooter will have (if trained) +2 to strike on an Aimed Shot (2 attacks) at first level.
So far this is only a +6 bonus, meaning that even though an actual roll of a natural 1 counts as a natural 2 and is no longer an automatic miss, it would still be a miss because it's less than the 8+ required to hit.
With the Sniper skill, it would have +2 more to strike, so a roll of 1 would count as a natural 3, and come out to a modified 9, which would hit.
So your concern would only apply to trained snipers who are taking their time to aim at a stationary target within normal range of their weapon, using a weapon designed specifically for their own personal use... and I don't have a problem with letting them automatically hit.
Especially since the target could hypothetically dodge.

One question - because it's a laser weapon, should there really be a penalty for using the weapon in pulse mode since there isn't any recoil?

That's been an issue since Rifts first came out.
Personally, I don't know. The only laser I've ever used is a laser dot pointer, and it doesn't have noticeable recoil, but the laser weapons in Rifts are vastly more powerful and light does have some mass. I don't have the math skills to calculate how much light output would be required to make significant recoil.
So I just went off of what it says in the Rifts Ultimate Edition, p. 361.

[Killer Cyborg]

Very nice.

If I had to make a complaint, then it would be that the customized cost might be too low.

I have the same concern, actually.

Would it be better at CR 60,000?
Or are you thinking higher?

[Dustin Fireblade]

Very nice.

If I had to make a complaint, then it would be that the customized cost might be too low.

I have the same concern, actually.

Would it be better at CR 60,000?
Or are you thinking higher?

60,000 sounds better, that would make it roughly 50% more expensive than a standard model. I think those Viggo custom weapons were about 50% more expensive. That would also put it on par with the Wilks 587 Sniper Rifle in Merc Ops.

[Killer Cyborg]

Very nice.

If I had to make a complaint, then it would be that the customized cost might be too low.

I have the same concern, actually.

Would it be better at CR 60,000?
Or are you thinking higher?

60,000 sounds better, that would make it roughly 50% more expensive than a standard model. I think those Viggo custom weapons were about 50% more expensive. That would also put it on par with the Wilks 587 Sniper Rifle in Merc Ops.

The Viggo weapons bump up from CR 11,500 to 16,000, less than 50%, but I don't have a problem with the 60k pricetag.

What's everybody else think?

[Killer Cyborg]

I like this particular fantasy weapon... because should it become available on the mass market so would everyone else. It has a very low price (about the same as a JA-12) and it has immense versatility, great range, and incredible ammo capacity. I doubt very much that this weapon could ever exist at this price. 60k is far more reasonable, but I would say perhaps 65k or 70k.

Alright.
I'll edit in a boosted price.

[rat_bastard]

It needs spinners.


I like it, as a anti-personel/anti monster rifle.

[Starmage21]

Why does everyone always use lasers and energy weapons as sniper weapons?

WHAT IF I WANT A SNIPER RAILGUN?!
(Seriously, it makes sense. Large bore railgun that fires semi-auto)

[Greyaxe]

People are always trying to come up with super-duper sniper weapons for Rifts, or complaining about the existing weapons lack of range, firepower, etc.
I generally just tell them that sniping isn't about killing one-shot-killing enemy Armor, and point out that anything MDC is Armor.

But people keep making up new, crappy, munchy sniper weapons that they think are cool.

If you're going to do something, do it right.

And so I bring to you, the BH-42 Sniper Rifle, fresh from good people at Bullhunter Arms:

BH-42 Variable Frequency Laser Sniper Rifle
Weight: 8.0 lbs
Mega-Damage: The rifle has three different power settings: 1d4x10 SDC, 2d6 MD, and 4d6 MD.
The SDC setting and the 2d6 MD settings also each have a three-shot pulse option, inflicting 3d4x10 SDC and 6d6 MD respectively. Keep in mind that strike bonuses for pulses are halved on Aimed and Called shots (round down), and that certain bonuses (like from the Sniper skill) are not applicable when firing pulses.
Rate of Fire: Single Shot or 3-shot pulse.
Effective Range: 4,000 Feet
Payload: 20 (MD) shots per short clip, 50 shots per long clip
6 SDC shots count as one MD shot. 1 2d6 MD shot counts as one shot. 1 4d6 MD shot counts as 2 MD shots.
Pulses count as three shots of the appropriate type (there is no pulse for the 4d6 MD setting).
Laser Targeting Sight: +3 to strike on an Aimed shot. 4,000' range.
Bonuses to Strike: Due to the the superior balance and craftsmanship, the BH-42 receives a +1 bonus to strike on aimed shots.
In the case of a custom-made BH-42 that is designed for a specific individual this +1 bonus does not count as a "standard" bonus to strike. For the purpose of dice rolls, the bonus is now a Natural bonus to strike, meaning that a die roll of 19 or 20, on a 20-sided die, before other bonuses to strike are applied, is actually read as a Natural 20 and is a critical strike. In the case where the roll is actually a Natural 20, before the Natural Strike Bonus is added, the critical damage is 3x normal instead of 2x.
In addition, a customized BH-42 so greatly complements that person's skill and natural ability that the Aimed or Called Shot strike bonus from the shooter's Sniper skill (where applicable) also counts as a Natural bonus.
This Natural bonus is applied first, modifying the initial die roll before any other considerations are added. In the case that a Natural 1 is rolled, this means that it counts instead as a Natural 3, meaning that it is not an automatic miss.
Cost: 42,000 credits for a basic model, 63,000 credits for a rifle customized to a specific individual

(This weapon has been created by combining a number of existing features from various weapons:
The JA-11 has a single-shot sniper laser that does 4d6 MD at 4,000'. The 50-shot long clip for 2d6 laser blasts comes from the L-20. The laser targeting system is listed as an option in RUE. The strike bonus from balance is present in a number of weapons, but is deliberately less than some of the bonuses present in Wilk's laser weapons because Wilk's is king of laser weapons and should stay that way. The Natural strike bonus is present in some of the weapons from Viggo's Custom Firearms, though I modified its effects in two different ways: I allowed the effect in a laser rifle (because I could think of no reason not to), and I allowed the balance to enhance the user's Sniper Skill into a stacking Natural Bonus. This last feature is the only actual power creep in this weapon, but I don't feel that it is that significant. Personally, I feel that the Sniper skill itself should be modified to be a Natural bonus.)

Feel free to post any relevant thoughts, comments, criticisms, rants, or haikus.


Edit: Added price
Edit: Boosted price.

Its Perfect KC

[runebeo]

I like the rife allot. I just wonder why theres no sniper rail gun like in the movie the Eraser. In that movie they used a thermal imaging to snipe people through walls and I think this is how allot assassination will happen in the near future. Something like a smaller & quieter Shemarrian rail gun would hold the stopping power to bring down powerful supernatural creatures. Maybe Archie 3 could go to work on something like this and use it to cull the bugs from a great distance. Whats the different between artillery and sniping? Its all in the targeting and delivery.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

i like it alot more than most of the munchkin ******** people try to pass off as "sniper" rifles.

[rat_bastard]

it's a nice anti-personnel weapon. Now we need an anti-material version something along this concept: http://www.strategypage.com/military_ph ... 81522.aspx

that is damn sexy.

[Killer Cyborg]

Missing on a 1-4 only works for modified 1-4s according to the rules. It's always been that way.
Back when you could make an Aimed shot in one attack and get a +3 bonus to strike, anybody with a basic WP could pick up a gun and miss only on a roll of 1 (which would be modified to a 4, which would miss).
If the gun they picked up had a laser sight or other bonuses to aimed shots, they couldn't miss at all (at close range, anyway) unless the target dodged.
As of RUE, though, a natural 1 always misses, you don't get as good a strike bonus at first level, aimed shots take 3 attacks, and you need a modified 8+ to hit with ranged weapons.

...

Have to disagree with you here.

Page 35 Main Rules Step 2 (In italics even): "Any roll above a four (4) hits the opponent."

Page 40 Main Rules How To Strike: "A roll of 1,2,3, or 4 is an automatic miss"

Page 44 Main Rules, Fourth Attack in the combat example from a SAMAS: "1d20 is rolled to strike, he misses (a 4 is rolled)."

Note that the word "natural" is nowhere in there.
That's because it's talking about the modified roll.

Now check out RUE 339
The nest step is for the first attacker to roll a twenty-sided die. If the result is a four or less (counting bonuses), the attacker misses.

Also the idea that you can't miss doesn't sit well with me at all, but then I guess thats just the way I run my games.

A trained sniper with a custom-made weapon who is aiming at a human-sized target 30', and who is taking his time to aim simply will not miss unless there are other factors involved (stuff that would provide penalties in game terms, allowing a miss).
If a nat 1 always misses, then that rule would have the best shooters in the world missing a simple shot 5% of the time, and I don't find that remotely plausible.

At least if a natural 20 is a Critical Hit, then a natural 1 should be a fumble, or a jam or a miss. Period.

Well, you're somewhat in luck, then.

In RUE, a nat 1 always misses (though it doesn't jam or anything).

The books never address how a Natural strike bonus would interact with this rule, so you're free to rule either way.
Personally, I'd say that since it changes the natural number, that would over-ride the Nat 1 rule, since it would no longer be a 1.

And assuming that you're sniping and the target is unaware of your attack, they could not dodge and in fact the sniper would be eligible for a sneak attack (Page 37 Main Rules). But then there are also certain OCC's/RCC's that have - for lack of a better word - Spidey Senses so I guess that would have to depend on your target...

Exactly.

[Killer Cyborg]

Why does everyone always use lasers and energy weapons as sniper weapons?

WHAT IF I WANT A SNIPER RAILGUN?!
(Seriously, it makes sense. Large bore railgun that fires semi-auto)

Railguns just don't have the firepower for the job, unless they get up to Boom Gun levels, where they're too big to be considered sniper weapons.
A burst from a railgun does 1d4x10 or more, but each individual round only usually does about 1d4 MD.

[Killer Cyborg]

and I don't have a problem with letting them automatically hit.
Especially since the target could hypothetically dodge.

Under the rules wouldn't all classes not be allowed to dodge unless they say they get to dodge when surprised?

Yes.
But there are classes that do say they get a dodge when surprised (and/or powers that negate surprise).

I do have a problem with automatic hits though. There's always a chance to miss. I have missed IRL targets I thought I was guaranteed a hit on.

a) What sort of targets specifically?
b) There's always a chance to miss, but that chance is a heck of a lot less than 5% for a trained sniper in an easy-shot situation.

[Killer Cyborg]

Railguns just don't have the firepower for the job, unless they get up to Boom Gun levels, where they're too big to be considered sniper weapons.
A burst from a railgun does 1d4x10 or more, but each individual round only usually does about 1d4 MD.

The NG-R50 railgun on page 93 of Merc Ops does 4D6 MD per round. It is heavy, though, weighing 25 pounds. Without a PS of 20, you get a -3 penalty to Strike.

Ah... munchy, munchy, Merc Ops.

Good book, but it's got too much power creep.

[Killer Cyborg]

and I don't have a problem with letting them automatically hit.
Especially since the target could hypothetically dodge.

Under the rules wouldn't all classes not be allowed to dodge unless they say they get to dodge when surprised?

Yes.
But there are classes that do say they get a dodge when surprised (and/or powers that negate surprise).

I do have a problem with automatic hits though. There's always a chance to miss. I have missed IRL targets I thought I was guaranteed a hit on.

a) What sort of targets specifically?
b) There's always a chance to miss, but that chance is a heck of a lot less than 5% for a trained sniper in an easy-shot situation.

Your GM is always free to rule that something is automatic hit. Like you place the gun to the head of someone who is unconscious and bound. Do you really need to roll a hit in that case? I would say no, auto hit. Your example a sniper using a custom rifle at an unmoving human sized target 30' distant and there are no other external factors would probably be another. However real shots where the target may move,

I didn't mean "paralyzed," just "standing fairly still."

there is genuine range and other factors is different. I don't care how good you are there is always a chance to miss in those realistic situations.

But, as I said, is there always a FIVE PERCENT CHANCE to miss?
Or is the actual chance usually a hell of a lot less than that for trained sniper making an easy shot with a customized precision weapon against a stationary human-sized target?

[Killer Cyborg]

But, as I said, is there always a FIVE PERCENT CHANCE to miss?
Or is the actual chance usually a hell of a lot less than that for trained sniper making an easy shot with a customized precision weapon against a stationary human-sized target?

5% is just an simple to use rule that is long established.

One that does not reflect reality accurately.
So you're discarding a mechanic that lets people effectively not miss in certain situations for a mechanic that makes them miss 5% of the time, which is even more unrealistic.

As for whether IRL snipers miss that often it depends on what you mean by easy shot. A stationary human-sized target at 400 meters would be easy for a trained Sniper but they can and do miss that target.

1. My specific example was:
"A trained sniper with a custom-made weapon who is aiming at a human-sized target 30' away, and who is taking his time to aim simply will not miss unless there are other factors involved (stuff that would provide penalties in game terms, allowing a miss).
If a nat 1 always misses, then that rule would have the best shooters in the world missing a simple shot 5% of the time, and I don't find that remotely plausible."

2. I didn't say "an easy shot for a sniper."
I said "an easy shot." Period.

3. Why exactly do they miss? Generally, it's because they misjudge the windage and/or drop of the bullet. Not a factor with lasers.

I have no idea on % they miss without going all mythbusters and testing a range of snipers doing multiple shots.

Take a guess.
Do you think that an average trained sniper will miss a human torso at 30' away when he's taken time to aim, and he is using a precision weapon designed specifically for him:
a) 5% or more of the time
b) Less than 5% of the time.
c) I really have absolutely no idea.

Just give your opinion.

Maybe a Range Master would have those figures already logged. However for gaming purposes it doesn't really matter, anything that would not fall under the 'automatic hit unless divine intervention' category, would have a miss chance (which is 100% arbitrary to the GM). I doubt many GM's are going to change the games dice rolling method just so you can have a more realistic miss chance of say 3%(just pulling out a number) instead of 5%. I know I wouldn't, if I call for a D20 hit roll then nat 1 misses simple as that and I am guessing most GM's would agree since they like simple combat rules.

Depends on the GM.
Either way, if you prefer simplicity over realism, then why complain about simple rules that you feel are unrealistic?

[Cybermancer]

[Aramanthus]

I think it's a sweet weapon! When can we expect more weapons from this company?

[Ed]

This looks like a solid energy-based rifle design. While I'd prefer a projectile-based rifle; this looks like it might, finally, resolve some of the sniper debates.

[Killer Cyborg]

This looks like a solid energy-based rifle design. While I'd prefer a projectile-based rifle; this looks like it might, finally, resolve some of the sniper debates.

Thanks, Ed!



(I'm thinking of some projectile-based ideas, and if I get anything solid, I'll post them.)

[Ed]

This looks like a solid energy-based rifle design. While I'd prefer a projectile-based rifle; this looks like it might, finally, resolve some of the sniper debates.

Thanks, Ed!



(I'm thinking of some projectile-based ideas, and if I get anything solid, I'll post them.)

I've often toyed with the idea of HESH ammunition for the Triax pumpgun. The round does 1d6 MDC to the armor but spalls off 6d6 SDC worth of fragments inside to the person wearing the armor. (or some variation of that damage ratio) There'd even be the potential for damage multipliers from the RUE armor piercing rule. I'd be interested in seeing how those natural hit bonuses would interact with the armor piercing effect.

Otherwise, what you'll need (IMO) is some mechanism to produce a long ranged rifle. Even 4000 ft isn't all that far, I'd like to see a sniper rifle range out to 2000 yards. There are development weapon systems today that can put rounds on target at 2500+ yards, in 100 years, I'd like to think we might improve on that.

[Killer Cyborg]

I balance simplicity, needs of the game and realism as much as I can.

Well, you balance them as much as you want to until you find a zone that's comfortable for you.
Same as everybody else.

As I've said, for me that doesn't include complaining about automatic hits in situations where there's realistically only a negligible miss chance anyway.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

I really really like this gun. I wont say its perfect, but ill think it. It is the thought that counts.

[Dog_O_War]

I voted maybe, based solely on the stats projected.

In Rifts (combat) three things matter; the damage you deal, the range you deal it, and the rate you deal it. That said, this gun is only as effective as a JA-9. Same range, but the most powerful setting on the BH-42 is restricted to costing 2 attacks. Personally, I think the JA-9 is an excellent weapon for sniping, and this gun compares. But it's not the best (IMO).

Also, the whole "natural roll" stuff is a little hokey. I mean how many weapons in the game either increase the range criticals are available (19-20 as apposed to just 20), or ups the multiplier? Personally I can think of none - it's all skill-based or race-based (from what I've read anyways).

I do like the options this gun puts forth (pulsing fire, SDC), but that doesn't exactly evoke the image of "sniper" for me. It's a good, all-round soldiering weapon for sure, but I'd say it's only a good sniping weapon.

To make it a better weapon for sniping, I would instead do something based off the design of the ATL from South America. Have the thing capable of sucking up a ton of power to propel that laser further, and for more damage. Maybe offer that on a short e-clip you can get 4 shots at a 5000 foot range, doing 4-6d6MD. offer more shots for using the lesser settings (like 8 for doing 2d6MD, or 16 for doing 1d6x10SDC).

Maybe instead of giving a straight-bonus for "better balance" (a crock as far as sniper-rifles are concerned. Always fire from a rested position, where balance means nothing), instead offer perhaps some kind of gyro-scoped/computer-tracking action, where skill use might equal reduced penalties for shooting at moving targets, or while moving.

[Preacher]

This looks like a solid energy-based rifle design. While I'd prefer a projectile-based rifle; this looks like it might, finally, resolve some of the sniper debates.

Thanks, Ed!



(I'm thinking of some projectile-based ideas, and if I get anything solid, I'll post them.)

I've often toyed with the idea of HESH ammunition for the Triax pumpgun. The round does 1d6 MDC to the armor but spalls off 6d6 SDC worth of fragments inside to the person wearing the armor. (or some variation of that damage ratio) There'd even be the potential for damage multipliers from the RUE armor piercing rule. I'd be interested in seeing how those natural hit bonuses would interact with the armor piercing effect.

Otherwise, what you'll need (IMO) is some mechanism to produce a long ranged rifle. Even 4000 ft isn't all that far, I'd like to see a sniper rifle range out to 2000 yards. There are development weapon systems today that can put rounds on target at 2500+ yards, in 100 years, I'd like to think we might improve on that.

I have a sniper rifle similar to this idea for our games. I made mine a joint venture between Triax and the Coalition. I used the Damage from The Coalition Rifle Micro Fusion grenade (6D6 M.D. 12 ft. blast radius) coupled with an enhanced version of the TX-16 from Triax but boosting the range to 4000 ft. My home brewed optics package has a +3 to strike as well. I wanted something based on canon but with more range so I flavor text it as a joint Colition NGR thing. I even snagged a cool pic from Deviant Art for the finished piece which is why I can't use it for anything but home game.


As for the OP, yes I like it. I don't see anything wrong with making a decent sniper rifle for Rifts, Lord knows there is not a good one in canon IMO.

[Killer Cyborg]

I voted maybe, based solely on the stats projected.

In Rifts (combat) three things matter; the damage you deal, the range you deal it, and the rate you deal it. That said, this gun is only as effective as a JA-9.

Except this one has a more powerful setting, better crit chances, better ammo, and a pulse setting.
The JA-9 can't even burst fire anymore.

Same range, but the most powerful setting on the BH-42 is restricted to costing 2 attacks.

Uh, no.
It simply takes two shots from the ammo clip; it still only counts as one attack.
Except, of course, for the when it's an aimed shot, and that takes two attacks... but that's nothing specific to this gun.

Personally, I think the JA-9 is an excellent weapon for sniping, and this gun compares. But it's not the best (IMO).

Heck, man; the JA-11 is better than the JA-9.

Also, the whole "natural roll" stuff is a little hokey. I mean how many weapons in the game either increase the range criticals are available (19-20 as apposed to just 20), or ups the multiplier?

The Viggo arms weapons in Dinosaur Swamps, which is where I got that part for this weapon.
And armor piercing missiles do double damage on a modified 18, 19, or 20, which is a lot more powerful, effectively counting the entire strike bonus as a natural bonus (only without negating a natural 1's effect).

To make it a better weapon for sniping, I would instead do something based off the design of the ATL from South America.

That's the exact sort of munchiness I was looking to avoid.

Maybe instead of giving a straight-bonus for "better balance" (a crock as far as sniper-rifles are concerned. Always fire from a rested position, where balance means nothing), instead offer perhaps some kind of gyro-scoped/computer-tracking action, where skill use might equal reduced penalties for shooting at moving targets, or while moving.

"Superior balance" just seems to be Palladium's catch-all for superior sights/craftsmanship/recoil compensation, etc. etc. etc.

[Ed]

Even 4000 ft isn't all that far, I'd like to see a sniper rifle range out to 2000 yards.

There are development weapon systems today that can put rounds on target at 2500+ yards, in 100 years, I'd like to think we might improve on that.

4000 feet is what most snipers can shoot at. Those big 2000 yard shots you hear about are the exception and should not be a standard sniper IMO.

Remember in Rifts we also blew ourselves back to the dark ages for centuries so a lot of what Rifts developers are doing is trying to recover lost technology. You can't expect everything to surpass what we have today in fact lots of things don't.

I'm not trying to be an ass you guys but 4000 feet isn't SOP for sniping. 4000 = 1,216 meters. 5280 feet is one mile. Here's a nice article from Military.com about a 'Million Dollar Shot' at 1300 meters. This was considered an exceptional shot. Most snipers would not engage a target at this range. Again, not trying to be a stickler but just add some perspective.

LOL. 1300 yards isn't all that tough a shot. I once shot the cigar out of my mirror's mouth at 1300 yards. Now I admit a Marine is a better shot than some random Army trigger man; but even your article talked about rolling terrain and high wind. What made that such a tough shot was the terrain and the windage, not the distance. Neither factor would impact the performance of a laser weapon.

Systems like the CheyTac have sub MOA accuracy out to 2500 yards and they're not using any particularly cutting edge technology, just some temperature sensors and a PDA. And in 2003, a Canadian sniper shot and killed an Afghani taliban insurgent from the range of 2430 meters (nearly one and a half miles) using a McMillian TAC-50. At Lejeune back in '89 we used to practice with Barrets at 1500 yards and I know for a fact they'll hit at 3000 yards. I couldn't hit snipers triangle at that range, but I could hit a vehicle, easily. Hell, the .50 LAR I shoot now can hit a milk jug at 3/4 mile and if the damn bullets weren't $5 a piece there wouldn't be a watermelon within a nautical mile of my home.

Part of the specifications of a Rifts sniper system whould have to include the ability to engage armored targets like 'borgs and RPA. Unfortunately such targets tend to carry railguns with 2000-4000 feet ranges. It would require a larger than normal death wish for a lightly armored stealth character like a sniper to engage a borg withing the borgs weapons envelope. SOP for a Rifts sniper would need the be considerably further than today.

[Killer Cyborg]

Note that the word "natural" is nowhere in there.
That's because it's talking about the modified roll.

Sorry - should have been clearer here. I wasn't referring to the quote snippet but rather your original post...

No idea what you were trying to say, then.

For the purpose of dice rolls, the bonus is now a Natural bonus to strike, meaning that a die roll of 19 or 20, on a 20-sided die, before other bonuses to strike are applied, is actually read as a Natural 20 and is a critical strike.

Now check out RUE 339
The nest step is for the first attacker to roll a twenty-sided die. If the result is a four or less (counting bonuses), the attacker misses.
...

A trained sniper with a custom-made weapon who is aiming at a human-sized target 30', and who is taking his time to aim simply will not miss unless there are other factors involved (stuff that would provide penalties in game terms, allowing a miss).

Well.. we *are* talking about a sniper here so engaging a target 10 meters away doesn't exactly require much skill so in this case I completely agree. However, engaging a target at say, 600 meters is altogether a different case. Are there any mechanics for range or other modifiers like target is running, target is prone, target is at X% of the weapons max range etc.?

Moving target, yes.
Target prone, sort of.
No penalties for range unless you're shooting beyond the normal range of the weapon (which would come up for snipers).
There would be penalties if the target is obscured or concealed, which is likely depending on terrain and such.

For a weapon where windage and drop don't matter, I'm fine with them automatically hitting with the right situation, even at that kind of range.
Up until RUE, that's how every gun worked anyway, going strictly by the rules, since nat 1s didn't miss automatically.

If a nat 1 always misses, then that rule would have the best shooters in the world missing a simple shot 5% of the time, and I don't find that remotely plausible.

Well no - not exactly.. This is true only of the first shot (For any sniper worth his salt, thats all it should take, right?). More specifically, this only counts for the first time you roll the die during the game. To beat a dead horse, the general formula for a probablity of a side showing is 1-(s-1/s)^n So in the case of a twenty sided die you would have 1-(19/20)^<number_of_rolls>. So it's not exactly a linear probability but I digress...

Yes.

Well, you're somewhat in luck, then.

In RUE, a nat 1 always misses (though it doesn't jam or anything).

The books never address how a Natural strike bonus would interact with this rule, so you're free to rule either way.
Personally, I'd say that since it changes the natural number, that would over-ride the Nat 1 rule, since it would no longer be a 1.

A natural 1 need not necessarily constitute a miss. It could mean a weapon malfunction, a bird flies in between the player and his target or that the player simply hesitates the shot and doesn't pull the trigger etc..

I guess all I'm really trying to say is that, in my opinion, there should always be a chance to miss/fumble/hesitate just like there is a chance to always crit.

That's cool, and feel free to house-rule things however you like.
I disagree with your assessment.

Aside from that one point of contention, I find the remainder of the weapon very well balanced and though out.

Thank you.

[Killer Cyborg]

I said there's always a chance to miss in a typical shot. A sniper 30 feet away from a relatively unmoving target is not a typical shot.

A typical shot usually isn't against an unmoving target standing in the open, so that would make this whole side-line pretty moot.

[Killer Cyborg]

Part of the specifications of a Rifts sniper system whould have to include the ability to engage armored targets like 'borgs and RPA. Unfortunately such targets tend to carry railguns with 2000-4000 feet ranges. It would require a larger than normal death wish for a lightly armored stealth character like a sniper to engage a borg withing the borgs weapons envelope. SOP for a Rifts sniper would need the be considerably further than today.

The thing about railguns is that they tend to fire bursts, which aren't very accurate in RUE (1/2 strike bonus).
Also, weapons can be fired at longer than their maximum range, albeit at a penalty.
If the sniper is firing from say 6,000', then the borgs will be at a penalty to hit him (if they can even see where he's shooting from to return fire).
He'll be at a penalty too, of course, but since he'll have the higher strike bonus it will affect him less, especially at higher levels as his bonus grows.

Of course, there's always that lucky shot...

[Killer Cyborg]

unless this weapon is an invisible laser (no magic just outside optic frequency, maybe even going as far as a mazer or xaser weapon), they would have a good idea where it came from tbh.

Whether or not lasers are invisible in Rifts is something up for debate.
Search through the forums and you can find people arguing about it frequently.

If lasers are visible, then it's kind of odd that there are so many sniper rifles that are lasers (all of them, really), but maybe it's just for the range.
On the other hand, I suspect that Kev, being a Star Wars fan, pictures them as visible energy bolts.

[Dog_O_War]

I voted maybe, based solely on the stats projected.

In Rifts (combat) three things matter; the damage you deal, the range you deal it, and the rate you deal it. That said, this gun is only as effective as a JA-9.

Except this one has a more powerful setting, better crit chances, better ammo, and a pulse setting.
The JA-9 can't even burst fire anymore.

Burst-fire does not a sniper make.

Same range, but the most powerful setting on the BH-42 is restricted to costing 2 attacks.

Uh, no.
It simply takes two shots from the ammo clip; it still only counts as one attack.
Except, of course, for the when it's an aimed shot, and that takes two attacks... but that's nothing specific to this gun.

My bad, I misinterpreted that part. I always find it odd to see it included in weapons were the rules already state as much.

Personally, I think the JA-9 is an excellent weapon for sniping, and this gun compares. But it's not the best (IMO).

Heck, man; the JA-11 is better than the JA-9.

20,000 less credits and a variable-frequiency laser disagree with you. While you may have 2d6 more MD (as well as additional settings), you still have a rather expensive weapon that is only minorly better. Hell, I could duct-tape two JA-9s together and it becomes the same gun.

Also, the whole "natural roll" stuff is a little hokey. I mean how many weapons in the game either increase the range criticals are available (19-20 as apposed to just 20), or ups the multiplier?

The Viggo arms weapons in Dinosaur Swamps, which is where I got that part for this weapon.
And armor piercing missiles do double damage on a modified 18, 19, or 20, which is a lot more powerful, effectively counting the entire strike bonus as a natural bonus (only without negating a natural 1's effect).

Didn't know about the Viggo Arms weapons. As for the AP missiles; I'm assuming it has something to do with their armour-piercing effect.

To make it a better weapon for sniping, I would instead do something based off the design of the ATL from South America.

That's the exact sort of munchiness I was looking to avoid.

I don't mean to "copy" the ATL, but use the idea that juicing more energy in per shot can actually extend the range of the shot, in addition to the damage. It's logical, and makes sense. Like using more or less powder in a rifle-round.

Maybe instead of giving a straight-bonus for "better balance" (a crock as far as sniper-rifles are concerned. Always fire from a rested position, where balance means nothing), instead offer perhaps some kind of gyro-scoped/computer-tracking action, where skill use might equal reduced penalties for shooting at moving targets, or while moving.

"Superior balance" just seems to be Palladium's catch-all for superior sights/craftsmanship/recoil compensation, etc. etc. etc.

But are you Palladium, looking to copy this catch-all for their next weapons-line? Or do you have seperate, individual thoughts on how it should actually be?

[Killer Cyborg]

I voted maybe, based solely on the stats projected.

In Rifts (combat) three things matter; the damage you deal, the range you deal it, and the rate you deal it. That said, this gun is only as effective as a JA-9.

Except this one has a more powerful setting, better crit chances, better ammo, and a pulse setting.
The JA-9 can't even burst fire anymore.

Burst-fire does not a sniper make.

I guess that just leaves better crit chance, more accuracy, more damage, and better ammo capacity.

Personally, I think the JA-9 is an excellent weapon for sniping, and this gun compares. But it's not the best (IMO).

Heck, man; the JA-11 is better than the JA-9.

20,000 less credits and a variable-frequiency laser disagree with you.

If cheaper = better, go with an AK-47.
And all that variable frequency laser beam means that after adjusting it a few times, you can manage to inflict the full 2d6 MD that the JA-11 inflicts on the first shot.

While you may have 2d6 more MD (as well as additional settings), you still have a rather expensive weapon that is only minorly better. Hell, I could duct-tape two JA-9s together and it becomes the same gun.

If you're arguing that a sniper can fire effectively with two rifles taped together, I don't think I'm going to bother arguing with you on that one.
That claim kind of speaks for itself.

Also, the whole "natural roll" stuff is a little hokey. I mean how many weapons in the game either increase the range criticals are available (19-20 as apposed to just 20), or ups the multiplier?

The Viggo arms weapons in Dinosaur Swamps, which is where I got that part for this weapon.
And armor piercing missiles do double damage on a modified 18, 19, or 20, which is a lot more powerful, effectively counting the entire strike bonus as a natural bonus (only without negating a natural 1's effect).

Didn't know about the Viggo Arms weapons.

Then you should probably read my first post, where I mention it and describe how I tweaked it.

As for the AP missiles; I'm assuming it has something to do with their armour-piercing effect.

Good guess.

To make it a better weapon for sniping, I would instead do something based off the design of the ATL from South America.

That's the exact sort of munchiness I was looking to avoid.

I don't mean to "copy" the ATL, but use the idea that juicing more energy in per shot can actually extend the range of the shot, in addition to the damage. It's logical, and makes sense. Like using more or less powder in a rifle-round.

Tell you what. Load your next rifle-round with 10x the powder and let me know what happens.
Too much powder and either your gun explodes or your shot goes wild.
You can tweak things a bit with custom loads, but not a hell of a lot (not like an equivalent to the ATL).

(But on the smaller scale, you could probably have an energy rifle that does 2x normal damage for 2x the ammo usage. Which is what I did here.)

Maybe instead of giving a straight-bonus for "better balance" (a crock as far as sniper-rifles are concerned. Always fire from a rested position, where balance means nothing), instead offer perhaps some kind of gyro-scoped/computer-tracking action, where skill use might equal reduced penalties for shooting at moving targets, or while moving.

"Superior balance" just seems to be Palladium's catch-all for superior sights/craftsmanship/recoil compensation, etc. etc. etc.

But are you Palladium, looking to copy this catch-all for their next weapons-line? Or do you have seperate, individual thoughts on how it should actually be?

I'm writing up a weapon for their system, so yeah, I'm looking to copy that catch-all.

[Killer Cyborg]

That's cool, and feel free to house-rule things however you like.
I disagree with your assessment.

Regarding the 'automatic hit' idea, again, I'm unable to find any rules that define a roll of a 1 - 4 as anything but a miss in the original text AND the RUE

I already quoted RUE mentioning that that 1-4 is "counting bonuses."
I did this back on the first page of the thread.
viewtopic.php?p=2010946#p2010946

You must have seen it, because you quoted me saying that when you responded to that post, at least one time.
I'll post it again, though, for emphasis:
RUE 339
"The nest step is for the first attacker to roll a twenty-sided die. If the result is a four or less (counting bonuses), the attacker misses."

You might also want to look on p. 346 of RUE:
"Miss: a roll of 1-4 (after bonuses) is always a miss.
A roll of one always misses regardless of bonuses."

RUE pg. 339 and 340 both reiterate the 1-4 rule several times without mention of any special case rules.

And without once saying that a natural 1-4 misses.
This is because they're referring to the modified strike roll, not just the number that shows up on the die.
Notice on 340 how it says:
"A roll of 1-4 is always a mistt.
A roll of Natural 20 is always a hit..."

See how the word "natural" is present when talking about the natural 20?
And how it's conspicuously NOT there when talking about the 1-4?
That's once again because it's not talking about a natural 1-4, but rather the modified roll.
Same thing later:
"A roll of 1-4 to strike is always a miss."
"A roll of a Natural 20 is always a hit..."

So back before RUE, when ranged weapons used the same attack standards as melee combat, and a modified 1-4 would miss, that meant that anybody with a +4 or better to strike with a ranged weapon would always hit (unless the target dodged or something).

Capiche?

[Killer Cyborg]

Ah ha. Capiche. Yes, I see now. At the time I quoted you before I didn't have the rulebook in front of me. So, thank you for your reiteration and for 'breaking it down'.

Okay, then.