Surgery in Robotech

[hurinsbane]

So to begin with I am Role Playing Robotech in a group. My character took some damage to his leg, and it requires surgery. I was wondering if there was any set in stone way to come to the outcome of the surgery, or to find out the effects of said surgery. Are there bionic replacements for limbs? I am not opposed to buying another version of the rule book, I currently have the basic 'Robotech The Role Playing Game' book. As you are probably aware there's no such information there. Any info about this process would be much appreciated. Thanks (Sorry if this isn't the right place, I'm totally new and unsure where to post this question!) Thanks again!

[ShadowLogan]

welcome to the boards.

I currently have the basic 'Robotech The Role Playing Game' book

Okay this sounds like you have what is commonly refered to as the 1st Edition Robotech RPG (there are a bunch of VF-1s in various modes, one in Battloid mode standing on some rocks floating in space around what could be Saturn) as opposed to the 2nd Edition Robotech RPG (which has Shadow Chronicles in the title). So my answers will assume 1st Edition.

My character took some damage to his leg, and it requires surgery. I was wondering if there was any set in stone way to come to the outcome of the surgery, or to find out the effects of said surgery.

You can use the Medical Doctor Skill to handle surgery's success or failure if you are looking for a chance of failure. Both editions play a bit fast and loose I think preferring to leave to "off-screen" activity and GM discretion, but they do have side effects, though I don't think there is anything like what you are looking for w/n RT (1st Edition or 2nd Edition).

In 1st Edition RT on pg5 and 6 there are notes about recovery of Hit Points and side effects (something similar is in 2nd Edition in the Main Book).

Are there bionic replacements for limbs?

The only Bionics in 1st Edition Robotech (BK5 "Invid Invasion") or 2nd Edition Robotech ("New Generation Sourcebook" and "Genesis Pits") books are from Invid sources and a result of lab experiments they do on humans. At the GM's discretion one could import Bionics and Cybernetics from other Palladium lines (Rifts, Heroes Unlimited, Ninjas & Super Spies) to flesh out human technology until such time as it is covered officially (not likely to happen with 1E, but 2E its still possible), since in the show there is a reference to humans having cyborgs, which are said to be old (in "The Trap" episode). Rifts has an entire source book dedicated to Bionics and Cybernetics, though even here there are parts that are left more as an index to look up in other books rather than reprinting. Heroes and Ninjas, have a shorter page count than the Rifts SB, but these two are pure SDC settings.

[hurinsbane]

Wow thank you for such an in depth answer. Yes it is first edition. I will show this to my game master. He's really good. The campaign we are running is really fun. My character has had a rough go of it. Two veritechs have been destroyed, failed some ME checks and has a severe fear of dogs.

I plan on doing more role play games with the group I'm with.

[glitterboy2098]

the Canon Wildstorm comic "from the stars" had a man with cybernetic implants in one of its crowd scenes, so between that, T.R.Edward's artificial eye, and Louie's comment about old cyborgs, you can justify bringing it in fairly easily.

my suggestion in that regard would be to use the N&SS stats, and just avoid most of the spy gimmicks and weapons options. human cybernetics would be primarily medical tools. they should also be clearly mechanical in nature. i also suspect that they don't have the ability to do much past the "partial cyborg".. a few limbs and sensory stuff. total body replacement seems unlikely for human tech.

the robotech master's on the otherhand, given the fact Louie's comment is brought on by seeing a tank of spare, flesh based body parts, should use Bio-systems. (there is even evidence from the same episode that the Master's can build entire bodies from such parts, and remote control/transfer the mind into, said bodies. evidenced by the Guy Dana meets at the 'treatment center' that was using a new body while his original was suspended in a tank.. ) the master's also have the ability to move memories of a person between cloned bodies, and to store said memories. (as evidenced with Zor Prime's creation)

Zentreadi, like breetai, seem to have access to a degree of cybernetics as well. for these full sized zents, i'd use the Rifts MDC cybernetics, with much the same limits as the human ones. they are medical tools, not weapons. not that when you look into the non-canon sources, you get stuff like Kiyora from the video game, where the rebuilding was extensive enough to nearly qualify as a partial cyborg.

for zentreadi though,the sizing chambers seem to operate by clonign the person at the other size, and then moving the mind/memories between them 'transferred intelligence' style, so presumably zents that are injured badly enough to need extensive reconstruction are either shrunk and returned to fix the bodies, or left to die, depending on importance. i doubt that you'd see much more than a replacement eye or limb very often. and even then mainly on officers rather than grunts.

[taalismn]

"Of course, there are limits to the state of the art reconstructive surgery....such as reconstructing somebody spread over several dozen square miles of Yellowstone Base..."
"I'll warm up the cloning chamber!"

[Seto Kaiba]

Are there bionic replacements for limbs? I am not opposed to buying another version of the rule book, I currently have the basic 'Robotech The Role Playing Game' book.

Well, no... the official Robotech setting and both editions of the RPG put medical cybernetics outside the scope of human tech, though it's worth noting that humanity is allegedly one of the least (if not the least) technologically-advanced civilization in the setting.

In general, the Zentradi are never shown with any kind of cybernetics in the Macross Saga[sup]1[/sup], but the Robotech Masters probably have the capability based on their alleged use of android soldiers. The only ones to ever actually produce a cyborg in the series proper were the Invid, but only for medical experimentation on humans... not for repairing injuries.

As you are probably aware there's no such information there. Any info about this process would be much appreciated. Thanks (Sorry if this isn't the right place, I'm totally new and unsure where to post this question!) Thanks again!

Yeah, the 1st Edition's authors had very little to go on, so there's a lot of information missing or incorrect in there.

Human medical technology in general in Robotech doesn't seem to be noticeably different from what we have today... even in the 2040's, major injuries could require months or years to heal.



1. The fans often mistake Breetai's faceplate for a cybernetic implant... production line art reveals that it is nothing more than an outlandish eyepatch. The same was revealed for T.R. Edwards' Phantom of the Opera-style mask in Sentinels. In the original Japanese Macross metaseries, separate from Robotech, later installments did depict the Zentradi as possessing advanced cybernetics and other bio-technology.

[ShadowLogan]

In general, the Zentradi are never shown with any kind of cybernetics in the Macross Saga1, but the Robotech Masters probably have the capability based on their alleged use of android soldiers. The only ones to ever actually produce a cyborg in the series proper were the Invid, but only for medical experimentation on humans... not for repairing injuries.

I agree in general cybernetics aren't a part of RT-Macross Saga, but during the RT-Masters Saga "cybernetics" are referenced several times, mostly in relation to the Masters though according to Louie in "The Trap", he makes a reference to "our old cyborgs" laying it out that humans have cybernetic technology long enough for it to be considered "old".

Palladium's other lines to include "cybernetics" are in 3 categories: cybernetics, Bio-Systems (cybernetics w/an "organic" graft IIRC), and Bionics (combat/heavy duty cybernetics). If we use that frame work for the RT-RPG (either edition), then humans would have cybernetics for sure post TMS and be old by TRM (a chance of Bionics, though I doubt it), the Tirolians are at Bio-System stage for sure (which by default would give them the more primitive cybernetics since it is unlikely Bio-Systems would cover all the things connected to the Bioroid, though with "biological diodes" a case could be made that the Masters at least produce Bio-Sytem equivalents of some straight cybernetic systems ), and the Invid have Bionics (based on Dusty Ares).

Human medical technology in general in Robotech doesn't seem to be noticeably different from what we have today... even in the 2040's, major injuries could require months or years to heal.

Shadow Chronicles OVA would dispute this, the UEEF is mentioned to have nano-tech medical equipment that helped heal Vince Grants wounds pretty quickly (he didn't need a cast or bandages). I don't have the quote handy, but it gets mentioned when Vince and Jean are in the medical facilities on the Moon.

[neuronphaser]

Shadow Chronicles OVA would dispute this, the UEEF is mentioned to have nano-tech medical equipment that helped heal Vince Grants wounds pretty quickly (he didn't need a cast or bandages). I don't have the quote handy, but it gets mentioned when Vince and Jean are in the medical facilities on the Moon.

I don't remember that quote specifically, but the new(er) Harmony Gold stuff (like SC and the various comic series) do tend to have one or two *slightly* more modern technological references here and there, so it wouldn't be surprising. I'd say most of it is pretty underdeveloped and perhaps "anachronistic" from the standpoint of a lot of other current sci-fi, though, so keep that in mind.

Regardless, with androids like Janice coming out of Robotechnology (and later, Janice II using Shadow Technology), it's not a huge stretch to include minor cybernetics. IMHO, I wouldn't allow it to be much more than a cosmetic addition to a character (i.e. it would never give bonuses to P.S. or skills or SDC), one that covers up a wound or the like perhaps, but with the requisite time for healing and physical therapy to get used to a new limb. It's only as important to your campaign as it needs to be, though.

[Kagashi]

Yeah, in both 1st and 2nd Edition, true cybernetics/bionics are only encountered with Invid tech and lie outside the scope of human technology. There are not even any skills available for players to pick that would allow for integrating robotics/cybernetics/bionics with human anatomy like how Rifts has Cybernetic MD skill or how Splicers has a class with a special ability that can instill Splicers bio-tech on and in humans. However, Cybernetics and Bionics clearly exist in Heroes Unlimited and that system has no specific skill created, so a combination of existing Robotech skills would prolly do to allow for "Cyber Docs" in Robotech. Combining Robot Mechanics, Mechanical Engineer, Mecha Engineering, or Robotechnology Engineering with Medical Doctor, Xeno Medicine, and/or Veterinary Science would likely be okay to install cybernetics in Robotech.

In the prime source materials, both Breetai and TR Edwards face masks are just masks, not cybernetic that provide any real advantage. They just cover battle scars. The Wildstorm comic guy prolly fits in this realm as well. We see nothing of him actually using his eye as an cybernetic implant and if the military does not have access to these devices (as per Breetai and Edwards), why would a random civilian have access to them? Its not like this guy is dressed like he has a lot of money, so its not likely he pursued the private sector to get advanced cybernetics outside the military. I suspect he simply lost his eye somehow and had a place holder installed for cosmetic purposes. Perhaps it lights up when he is hitting the clubs with little LED bulbs behind a semi-opaque shield on the outside or something, but I suspect he is functioning with only one eye for sight.

But, Louie's comment about "our old cyborgs" indicates that Cybertechnogoly did indeed exist at one point in time. However, we never see any cyborgs even as early as the flashback scenes of the Global Civil War, so it must have been utilized at a time prior to 1999. Its an old and abandoned technology by the timeline we would be playing the RPG. I suspect that other technologies surpassed that of cybertechnology and it was abandoned. Perhaps cyber tech was very expensive, only offered SDC level of protection, was very clunky, cold, and was creating mental issues with not looking human-like (Louie said they were "cold and metallic"). When humans unlocked Robotechnology, augmentation with robots and power armor was the direction humanity would go and it nailed the coffin shut on cyber tech.

The next time we would see cyber tech, would be Dusty Airs in 2043/44 and he was an Invid experiment and a surprise to all he encountered.

[BookWyrm]

"Of course, there are limits to the state of the art reconstructive surgery....such as reconstructing somebody spread over several dozen square miles of Yellowstone Base..."
"I'll warm up the cloning chamber!"

"......make sure it's clean this time! I've been getting complaints..."
"What complaints?"
"Someone thought it was funny to pick the wrong vid for Movie Night again...."
"Oh saints help us, not---"
"Yep. The original, pre-Global Civil War, 1958 science fiction classic....The Fly."
"*groan*"

[SRoss]

"Of course, there are limits to the state of the art reconstructive surgery....such as reconstructing somebody spread over several dozen square miles of Yellowstone Base..."
"I'll warm up the cloning chamber!"

"......make sure it's clean this time! I've been getting complaints..."
"What complaints?"
"Someone thought it was funny to pick the wrong vid for Movie Night again...."
"Oh saints help us, not---"
"Yep. The original, pre-Global Civil War, 1958 science fiction classic....The Fly."
"*groan*"

"I swear to god, it was labeled Weird Science!"

[Nightmask]

Yeah, in both 1st and 2nd Edition, true cybernetics/bionics are only encountered with Invid tech and lie outside the scope of human technology. There are not even any skills available for players to pick that would allow for integrating robotics/cybernetics/bionics with human anatomy like how Rifts has Cybernetic MD skill or how Splicers has a class with a special ability that can instill Splicers bio-tech on and in humans. However, Cybernetics and Bionics clearly exist in Heroes Unlimited and that system has no specific skill created, so a combination of existing Robotech skills would prolly do to allow for "Cyber Docs" in Robotech. Combining Robot Mechanics, Mechanical Engineer, Mecha Engineering, or Robotechnology Engineering with Medical Doctor, Xeno Medicine, and/or Veterinary Science would likely be okay to install cybernetics in Robotech..

To be fair just because the skill isn't made available to the PC doesn't mean the skill doesn't exist, only that it's simply not available to them or otherwise unnecessary to list.

[ShadowLogan]

Yeah, in both 1st and 2nd Edition, true cybernetics/bionics are only encountered with Invid tech and lie outside the scope of human technology. There are not even any skills available for players to pick that would allow for integrating robotics/cybernetics/bionics with human anatomy like how Rifts has Cybernetic MD skill or how Splicers has a class with a special ability that can instill Splicers bio-tech on and in humans. However, Cybernetics and Bionics clearly exist in Heroes Unlimited and that system has no specific skill created, so a combination of existing Robotech skills would prolly do to allow for "Cyber Docs" in Robotech. Combining Robot Mechanics, Mechanical Engineer, Mecha Engineering, or Robotechnology Engineering with Medical Doctor, Xeno Medicine, and/or Veterinary Science would likely be okay to install cybernetics in Robotech..

To be fair just because the skill isn't made available to the PC doesn't mean the skill doesn't exist, only that it's simply not available to them or otherwise unnecessary to list.

True, but right now the only indication of augmentation in the RPG has it coming from the Invid (and maybe a few bits for the Masters). Which is in stark contrast to the series where such technology is known and apparently used, though not common by 2RW Terrans and forms part of the Masters technology in that arc as well.

[jedi078]

From an RPG standpoint it makes sense for a GM to allow the inclusion of cybernetics to replace lost limbs. To not allow it would mean if a PC had his/her leg blown off the player would either have to play a cripple, or make a new character.

[glitterboy2098]

actually i've made a list of changes i'd make to the standard PB stuff to fit robotech..
first, it's all clearly mechanical. so a replacement eye is more like a camera lens assembly, the limbs are obviously fake, etc.
and it's just basics. eyes and limbs. no fancy gadgets. not even fancy things like alternate vision modes.
stats are the very basic SDC versions. so stats being between 8-12 for things like PS and Spd, limited PP, etc.
they have to be recharged after so many hours of use (enough for a day or two at a time)

basically they're better then real world unpowered prosthetic's, but aren't good enough that people would start chopping bits of themselves off to get them.

[Kagashi]

From an RPG standpoint it makes sense for a GM to allow the inclusion of cybernetics to replace lost limbs. To not allow it would mean if a PC had his/her leg blown off the player would either have to play a cripple, or make a new character.

Kinda. Ive had a RT character lose his arm and the GM allowed me to wear a prosthetic arm similar to the kind we would have today. Nowhere near cybernetic or bionic levels though, like what GB describes above. It was a disability I had to role play out.

[thorr-kan]

Could use the...biosystems (I think? AFB), from Rifts. Replaces function, not (or really limited) additional abilities. Perfect for Terran replacements.

Fluff it as the base body can't handle any enhancements beyond it's natural abilities (i.e., Misty Knight of Marvel Heroes for Hire).

[glitterboy2098]

actually biosystems would fit better for the robotech masters. the line about cyborgs is delivered as the character is looking into a tank full of cloned bodypart replacements, and suggests that such advanced body-part replacement tech was beyond what earth could do.