Robotech Defense Forces Question

[Aaryq]

Who else was defending Earth during the first season of Robotech?

When the Zentraedi attack in the first episode, who all is manning the ARMD Space Platforms?

When Captain Gloval makes the announcement to the civilians of the SDF-1 that they must leave Earth or the Defense Forces will destroy the SDF-1, what defense forces is he talking about?

Who are these other people defending Earth? Conventional Forces? Robotech Defense Forces? Do they have any of their own destroids or veritech?

I was kicking around an idea of running a campaign that starts on Earth just after the SDF-1 performs her first hyperspace fold. Kind of start out dealing with commies and hippies and then move into the stuff more common (renegade Zentradi and such)

[glitterboy2098]

the United Earth Defense Forces were not limited to the troops on the SDF-1. they were a global force drawn from the military's of the world, although the most powerful and developed nations of the 90's probably had the biggest representation.

the earth based forces certainly out numbered the troops on the SDF-1 by several thousand times, and we know they had VF-1's and Destroids, as well as conventional forces. and most likely nuclear and reflex warhead tipped missiles as well, both fighter and vehicle carried and ICBM type's.

[guardiandashi]

Who else was defending Earth during the first season of Robotech?

When the Zentraedi attack in the first episode, who all is manning the ARMD Space Platforms?

When Captain Gloval makes the announcement to the civilians of the SDF-1 that they must leave Earth or the Defense Forces will destroy the SDF-1, what defense forces is he talking about?

Who are these other people defending Earth? Conventional Forces? Robotech Defense Forces? Do they have any of their own destroids or veritech?

I was kicking around an idea of running a campaign that starts on Earth just after the SDF-1 performs her first hyperspace fold. Kind of start out dealing with commies and hippies and then move into the stuff more common (renegade Zentradi and such)

Macross Island and the SDF-1 were a (small) portion of the RDF fleet and instalations

numbers vary but somewhere between 2 and 13+ Armor platforms existed,
each carries ~96 lancer fighters, 270 ghost drones 200 apace cannons and sometimes 24 veritechs it may be able to handle ~1/3 more than that.
in addition there were numerous ground bases, some number of conventional carriers and such
the Grand Cannon installation, and I believe there were supposed to be additional Grand Cannon facilities under construction, (but nowhere near as far along) the advanced stuff may have been concentrated @ the SDF-1 (IE they had some of "everything" at macross island, but it was spread around the rest of the world, and they were going to "show off" the hot new military hardware @ macross island (likely to get a lot more military funding) the problem was the Zentradii showed up before the earth was really ready for them.

[Seto Kaiba]

When the Zentraedi attack in the first episode, who all is manning the ARMD Space Platforms?

The space branch of the UEDF... same forces manning the SDF-1, the Oberth-class destroyers, etc.

(In the original Macross, it was the UN Spacy... pretty much the same story, space branch of the UN Forces.)

When Captain Gloval makes the announcement to the civilians of the SDF-1 that they must leave Earth or the Defense Forces will destroy the SDF-1, what defense forces is he talking about?

The entire rest of the military they belong to... the UEDF.

numbers vary but somewhere between 2 and 13+ Armor platforms existed,

Just ten, officially... in the Robotech universe, four were lost during the initial conflict with the Zentradi and construction was halted on the class immediately thereafter.

(Only eight in the original Macross, the "ARMD-10" is the fault of someone at Harmony Gold reading the number of ARMD-01 upside down... though in that universe, they built over around 250 more of 'em after the war ended, the highest numbered one to appear thus far is the Lassen Peak, ARMD-244, then several successor classes were produced.)

the Grand Cannon installation, and I believe there were supposed to be additional Grand Cannon facilities under construction, (but nowhere near as far along) [...]

Just the one, officially... (for Robotech). Anti-Unification League terrorists working under then-Colonel Leonard destroyed the other one using a hijacked ARMD.

(The original Macross universe had five, though only Grand Cannon I in Alaska was completed at the time... numbers II thru V were incomplete when things went to hell.)

[Aaryq]

Follow-up. Any good ideas to play a campaign in the time between the SDF-1 folding and the holocaust?

[glitterboy2098]

one would presume that many of the places with endemic conflict in the 90's would still have such troubles.. what we often refer to as 'the third world'.
so for example, many places in africa likely still had a lot of conflicts going on between the various ethnic groups/countries.
the Balkan nations likely were still fighting as well.
the middle east may still have had some conflicts either on going or recently ended.

this wikipedia page gives a good idea of the main areas that likely still had deep seated conflicts..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wa ... %80%932002

the United Earth Government probably would have sent peacekeeper units to these regions in an attempt to either deterr the conflicts, or as occupying forces to try and enforce a peace while rebuilding the governments/country after a major military intervention.
this means you could easily have a campaign in a regions where your outsiders facings insurgent/guerilla type conflicts, possible coups, etc..

in addition, with the anti-unification groups likely still active at the time, these various hostile groups could end up with some advanced technology weaponry.. SLAP rounds, RL-1's, etc would be easy, armored vehicles and such as well, if in lower numbers.. if you wanted you could also take a cue from the japanese macross continuity and have the anti-unificationists get access to some non-UEG mecha (prototypes the UEG passed on, or stuff anti-UEG allied companies made on the sly, etc) (the old robotech comics might provide some mecha ideas you could borrow)

if you don't want to invent new mecha, you could easily have a few "off the books" destroids in anti-UEG hands.. it wouldn't be too hard for one of the manufacturers to sneak a few parts off the assembly lines under various covers (claiming parts failed quality control, for testing ,etc) and get them to anti-UEG secret assembly areas who then assemble a working mecha.

[Seto Kaiba]

Follow-up. Any good ideas to play a campaign in the time between the SDF-1 folding and the holocaust?

In the official Robotech continuity, that's a pretty quiet time for Earth in general.

With the United Earth government running the show, the last major war having been over for around ten years, and the only serious anti-government force apparently reduced to little more than a strawman for the government to use in covertly justifying the sizable military buildup to combat the Zentradi, most of the adventure potential is on the SDF-1. There's some action between the return of the SDF-1 and the bombardment, but mostly centered around the SDF-1 again.

"Regional dispute" kinda feels like a turkey shoot when the UEDF is armed with transforming robots and non-government forces are going to be mostly armed with postwar machine guns and harsh language, IMO.

[glitterboy2098]

i don't know.. you can argue that Iraq and Afghanistan had something of the same disparity of force power, and those areas have been anything but boring for the troops stationed there..

and if you take the stance that the Anti-UEG froces at the time were being held up by the UEG as a boogyman.. they'd have to be letting the anti-UEG foment problems in various places to keep the threat valid and current, so you could still use the "anti-UEG is supplying the locals" tack.

[Aaryq]

What about the transitional period from when the Southern Cross was standing up and the RDF was fixing to get rolled into the REF. Was it like inter-service rivalries of today or totally different? Would the ASC forces and RDF go out on joint ops?

[Seto Kaiba]

and if you take the stance that the Anti-UEG froces at the time were being held up by the UEG as a boogyman.. they'd have to be letting the anti-UEG foment problems in various places to keep the threat valid and current, so you could still use the "anti-UEG is supplying the locals" tack.

's not really a stance, it's kind of an explicit statement in the series.

Remember, the UEDF top brass used the Anti-Unification League as the designated villain in their propaganda/misinformation to keep the citizens of Earth from realizing they were in a full-fledged shooting war with aliens. That's why they didn't want to let the civilian population off the SDF-1, because their survival'd (and what they knew) would punch a colossal hole in the UEDF's cover story for the sudden disappearance of Macross Island. They'd told everyone the Anti-Unification League blew it up.

I think that's probably enough for them to go on for the year or two... between that and the whole of humanity getting nuked.

What about the transitional period from when the Southern Cross was standing up and the RDF was fixing to get rolled into the REF. Was it like inter-service rivalries of today or totally different? Would the ASC forces and RDF go out on joint ops?

The Army of the Southern Cross is part of the United Earth Defense Force.

The only real inter-service rivalries we see in the series are within the ASC itself... the brawling between what the OSM called the Tactics Armored Space Corps pilots and the α Tactics Armored Corps's tank drivers.

By the time the ASC rose to assume responsibility for Earth's defenses, the UEEF was already a completely separate military force with its own separate mission, and was preparing to leave for deep space. Not really a lot of joint operations between the two, as after they left the UEEF only had time for an ill-fated reinforcement attempt late in the 2nd War and an abortive evacuation at the conclusion of said war. Otherwise the two basically kept to themselves. (The RPG asserts that part of this was sour grapes on the ASC brass's part.)


Within the confines of the series, Robotech's a damnably hard title to write plot for... in part because there's so little going on outside the action covered in the series. Earth ain't the liveliest place in the galaxy after an international military browbeats all the troublemakers into silence and then everybody is vaporized.

[Sgt Anjay]

Not only is the "Anti-unificationists destroy Macross Island" explanation pointing to there being significant conflict in the post-SDF-1 but pre-Zentraedi world, but Roy and Claudia are clearly UEDF in the flashback episode "A Rainy Night", and yet...well, we see Roy have a battle on what today is the continental U.S. This is revelatory. The necessary scenario for this to take place is paradigm changing.

This is clearly not a settled, peaceful world, like, at all. There's an air battle in Wyoming! "Quiet" indeed. Pfft.

As for between Macross and Southern Cross, I know of no description in any actual Robotech product which describes that era as peaceful and drama free; all sources point to mad chaotic reconstructive scramble just starting to settle if at all when the Masters show up and interstellar war resumes. And, of course, that fits Leonard's dialog from the episode "Dana's Story" much better.

Just because the current regime has put out very little product on the setting doesn't mean there's nothing in those eras to talk about.

[Seto Kaiba]

Not only is the "Anti-unificationists destroy Macross Island" explanation pointing to there being significant conflict in the post-SDF-1 but pre-Zentraedi world, [...]

No, it only proves that the Anti-Unification League is a recent enough memory for the United Earth Government to use as a credible scapegoat for the disappearance of Macross Island. The final issue of the canon Robotech: From the Stars comic establishes that the Anti-Unification League was effectively neutralized in 2006, after they failed to destroy Macross Island and Alaska Base via their hijacked ARMD, and that the UEDF leadership intended to continue using them as boogeymen to justify defense appropriations without having to disclose to the public that they were expecting an alien invasion.

With the Anti-Unification League finished years before the start of the first Robotech War, that leaves any potential conflicts on the ground during the SDF-1's return trip in the overkill category... using giant robots against insurgents armed with little more than a collection of old machine guns and harsh language isn't exactly exciting.

As for between Macross and Southern Cross, I know of no description in any actual Robotech product which describes that era as peaceful and drama free; [...]

Oh, it's not entirely drama-free, but the only antagonists were/are the swiftly diminishing bands of rogue Zentradi who had not yet managed to get themselves killed. They stopped being an issue sometime in or slightly after 2015, after which there really wasn't any (canonical) opposition to the United Earth Forces until the Tirolians invade in 2029.

Just because the current regime has put out very little product on the setting doesn't mean there's nothing in those eras to talk about.

Or, to look at it another way, the current regime has put out very little product covering that setting because there's nothing there worth covering. Harmony Gold condemned and disowned the old comics that portrayed the period as being one small step shy of Fist of the North Star.

[Sgt Anjay]

Not only is the "Anti-unificationists destroy Macross Island" explanation pointing to there being significant conflict in the post-SDF-1 but pre-Zentraedi world, [...]

No, it only proves that the Anti-Unification League is a recent enough memory for the United Earth Government to use as a credible scapegoat for the disappearance of Macross Island. The final issue of the canon Robotech: From the Stars comic establishes that the Anti-Unification League was effectively neutralized in 2006, after they failed to destroy Macross Island and Alaska Base via their hijacked ARMD, and that the UEDF leadership intended to continue using them as boogeymen to justify defense appropriations without having to disclose to the public that they were expecting an alien invasion.

With the Anti-Unification League finished years before the start of the first Robotech War, that leaves any potential conflicts on the ground during the SDF-1's return trip in the overkill category... using giant robots against insurgents armed with little more than a collection of old machine guns and harsh language isn't exactly exciting.

That's a pretty stretchy interpretation of what's there. As usual, of course, more than one interpretation is in fact more than possible, but indeed likely. For one, even if the AUL was no longer capable of actually defeating the UEG due to a mortal blow, and that's certainly a fair assessment of the UEG victory, that doesn't make the AUL movement everywhere instantly neutered. I mean, the U.S. totally defeated the Iraqi armed forces pretty quickly with overwhelming force. Mission Accomplished, right? The Soviet Union, and later the U.S., both handily occupied Afghanistan. What could go wrong after that when they're so clearly technologically outmatched?

Also, even if one were to treat warfare like a video game (beat the boss level and go home!) a victory in 2006 means that Seven out of Ten years of post-SDF-1 was conflict. I don't know how you call that a peaceful era. "Sorry guys, no interesting events here, there's a whole 3/10s nominal peace!"

As for between Macross and Southern Cross, I know of no description in any actual Robotech product which describes that era as peaceful and drama free; [...]

Oh, it's not entirely drama-free, but the only antagonists were/are the swiftly diminishing bands of rogue Zentradi who had not yet managed to get themselves killed. They stopped being an issue sometime in or slightly after 2015, after which there really wasn't any (canonical) opposition to the United Earth Forces until the Tirolians invade in 2029.

No, at most per the current version of Robotech we don't know the full scope of the period and all the possible conflicts which may have occurred in it. We don't have a peaceful period, we have a null about which we can make no extensive statements of the type you are declaiming. We do know the period was inherently unstable, because that's what Leonard's dialog in the actual show calls it specifically. That's the actual word. If you want to interpret that as "nothing much going on", that's on you, but it doesn't mean all must adhere to such a viewpoint.

However, judging by any and every other version of Robotech which has ever been, the period has plenty of rather dire stuff going on. Me? I'm going to go with actually existing versions of Robotech over your fan theory, since the current version of Robotech is at best silent. I know there are even more viewpoints out there on the era, each with points to back them. It's up in the air.

...which, now I think about it, is great for free sandbox world-building GMs to run their games.

Just because the current regime has put out very little product on the setting doesn't mean there's nothing in those eras to talk about.

Or, to look at it another way, the current regime has put out very little product covering that setting because there's nothing there worth covering.

First and foremost, that would hold just so much more water if they had put out lots of product, and those eras were noticeable in their absence.

They haven't. They aren't.

They've put out really just not very much at all.

So there is zero reason to assume the absence means anything. If you want to stare at the nothing and read into it, feel free, but the rest of us aren't obliged to follow suit with nothing to back that.

Harmony Gold condemned and disowned the old comics that portrayed the period as being one small step shy of Fist of the North Star.

Harmony Gold did indeed create a new version of Robotech which is different from all the ones that came before (including, of course, the original tv series whenever they feel like). And so those older versions of Robotech don't apply to the new version. Except where they do apply, i.e. Sentinels et al. So that puts us back to the fact that in the current version of Robotech we simply don't know, although the tv series dialog doesn't paint a rosy picture, while in every other version we know it's not a rosy picture.

Taken all together, that's why I'm pretty comfortable saying those time periods aren't rosy picture. Your, and everyone else's, mileage may vary...since, y'know, we don't even have to be driving the same type of vehicle, let alone make and model of car. And that can, in fact, be a good thing.

[ShadowLogan]

Follow-up. Any good ideas to play a campaign in the time between the SDF-1 folding and the holocaust?

You'd probably be looking at something more espionage based. Either trying to discover the truth about events on Launching day or trying to suppress it. Then you have the events of 12-1/2 months later, and the Ontario Incident (and those leading up to it). Non Espionage type could see the Space Fleet having low key encounters with the Zentreadi in near-Earth space once the SDF-1 has returned and possibly shortly after the Fold.

It should be noted that in Ep4 or 5 there might be what can be considered a throw away line in a Breetai/Exedore scene that allows some type of conflict to continue in/near Earth, at least in one way to interpret the line about removing their forces.

[Seto Kaiba]

You'd probably be looking at something more espionage based. Either trying to discover the truth about events on Launching day or trying to suppress it. Then you have the events of 12-1/2 months later, and the Ontario Incident (and those leading up to it).

Pretty much, yeah... kinda like the original proposed plot for Robotech: the Movie before Tatsunoko shot it down.

There aren't really any "offscreen antagonists" in the post-reboot Robotech 'verse, which limits what can be done while sticking close to Robotech proper in the RPG.

That's a pretty stretchy interpretation of what's there. As usual, of course, more than one interpretation is in fact more than possible, but indeed likely.

Not at all... we get the line about the Anti-Unification League having been "virtually finished" after their failed 2006 terrorist attack directly from the terrorist leader, Eli Leonard, with his very next statement being to affirm a change of tack to taking over the new government from within (rather than by overthrowing it by force of arms). On the VERY NEXT PAGE we get Admiral Donald Hayes affirming that, even though the AUL is defeated, they're going to keep using them as a boogeyman.

It's all right there, both literally and figuratively in black and white.

I mean, the U.S. totally defeated the Iraqi armed forces pretty quickly with overwhelming force. Mission Accomplished, right? The Soviet Union, and later the U.S., both handily occupied Afghanistan. What could go wrong after that when they're so clearly technologically outmatched?

You're kinda making my point for me now... there's not a lot of narrative worth in a grinding campaign against an insurgency that's hopelessly outgunned to the extent that those modern ones would feel pretty fortunate by comparison. It's one thing if the world's biggest superpower is coming after you... it's quite another if you've got a one-world government and, through it, ALL the military forces on the planet, gunning for you. That's a turkey shoot.

Also, even if one were to treat warfare like a video game (beat the boss level and go home!) a victory in 2006 means that Seven out of Ten years of post-SDF-1 was conflict. I don't know how you call that a peaceful era. "Sorry guys, no interesting events here, there's a whole 3/10s nominal peace!"

We're not talking about that era though, we're talking about the time period between Ep3 and 27.

No, at most per the current version of Robotech we don't know the full scope of the period and all the possible conflicts which may have occurred in it.

With literally nothing to support your contention from any official standpoint... the obvious and logical answer remains that there is NO background conflict going on. This is a planet Leonard tells us is populated by the descendants of just 70,000 people, with only a few cities per Harmony Gold's official material.

First and foremost, that would hold just so much more water if they had put out lots of product, and those eras were noticeable in their absence.

Yeah, they covered "Where the adventure is"... the Anti-Unification League conflict in 2006, the cleanup of the Zentradi insurgents around 2015, the evacuation of Earth in 2030, and the first abortive attempt to retake it. Considering they've covered every major era EXCEPT the one you're talking about, that makes it pretty likely there's just nothing there to talk about in their view.

[Jefffar]

The current RPG does indicate a series of wars after the Zentraedi assault lasting into the 2020s in which the UEG reestablished its dominance (if not sovereignty) over the population of Earth. That HG officially approved this indicates we have some possible adventure in the off screen world that has yet to be explored fully.

[glitterboy2098]

not to mention the amount of non-show based material found in genesis pits shows that HG is not above allowing original material in the RPG. when Marines comes out i expect the number of examples to increase. PB and HG are just being understandably cautious and focused on getting a firm show-based foundation first.

[Seto Kaiba]

The current RPG does indicate a series of wars after the Zentraedi assault lasting into the 2020s in which the UEG reestablished its dominance (if not sovereignty) over the population of Earth. That HG officially approved this indicates we have some possible adventure in the off screen world that has yet to be explored fully.

I wouldn't bet on it, really... principally because the population of Earth is one of the subjects on which the RPG diverges from what's said in the series.

As the show has it, Earth is populated by the 70,000 survivors of the Zentradi holocaust and their descendants... it's hard to have a "series of wars" when your entire population could fit comfortably into a single Midwest town, and there's only one military force in existence. Never mind that ALL supplies, from food and potable water to weapons and mecha, are basically single source from the UEDF.

From a RPG narrative standpoint, the canon version of events in the official continuity is VERY limiting... so liberties are taken, and things diverge significantly from the official setting. Sometimes it's obviously intentional deviation for the sake of opening up more narrative freedom, like a larger survivor population and the existence of non-UEG states on postwar Earth, and in other cases there were clearly failures of research in the writing process.*


* For instance, the Army of the Southern Cross's origin story starts with a two-fold canon contradiction... Leonard having been on Earth during the bombardment, and his having been stationed at a base that had been nuked off the face of the Earth with reflex weapons in a terrorist plot he himself orchestrated.

[glitterboy2098]

actually seto, HG specified in shadow chronicles that there are "millions of people" on earth by 2044

there is no realistic way to reach millions of people from a start of 70,000 in only 34 years.. you'd need a minimum 15% growth rate a year, no deaths.. the most rapidly growing populations on earth can only boast about 4% or so.

to sustain a 15% growth rate you'd pretty much have to have every woman pregnant at all times, ideally with several kids each pregnancy. you could have no women in the military and families would be huge.
we do not see this. we see a lot of women in the military. when we see families it's generally a fairly normal 'modern' family of parents and 1-2 kids. there is no evidence that women are pregnant nearly all the time.

going by the cultural elements we see, in fact, the rate of growth is probably closer to modern first world countries.. around 1% a year at best.

and we can't include the zentreadi because we know from dialog that something happened to them. (whether they died off or just left earth is not said, but their evidently aren't many left on earth by the time of the 2nd war)

and it gets worse because we know the global society collapses in 2031ish with the arrival of the invid.. so it's more like a 20 year period for growth.. which pushes the growth rate closer to 30% a year.

and this is all assuming the absolute minimum definition of 'millions' (over 2 million)
the higher the population in 2044, the greater the issue with starting at 70,000.


so the only way that you can get millions of people in 2044? if you started with millions of humans surviving 2010.

[Seto Kaiba]

actually seto, HG specified in shadow chronicles that there are "millions of people" on earth by 2044

Simple (official) answer... per Harmony Gold, if the story of a subsequent work contradicts that of the series, the subsequent work's story takes a backseat to that of the series.

(Or I could also point out they have no way of actually knowing the population, having been away from the planet for 22 years.)

[glitterboy2098]

funny, the original show never specified how many people there were on earth at any time.. therefor, even if that interpretation of their canon policy was correct, the line would stil lstand because it is not contradicting anything.

as it is, i'm pretty sure that HG counts shadow chronicles as 'part of the show' being that it is a continuation and canon..

[Seto Kaiba]

funny, the original show never specified how many people there were on earth at any time..

Actually, it does twice... once in the Macross Saga, and once in the Masters Saga. They cite the same figure.

as it is, i'm pretty sure that HG counts shadow chronicles as 'part of the show' being that it is a continuation and canon..

The policy in question specifically cites the original television series, and puts all sequels in the classification of being subordinate to what's in the series.

If you want to pursue this tangent further, let's take it to PM.

[glitterboy2098]

funny seto.. last major debate you said that canon policy was invalid/not applicable.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=138939&start=100&p=2849445&view=show#p2849445

you mind telling me which one is true? either HG's canon policy on the website is valid, like your claiming now.. or it's not, like you claimed in the recently closed garfish thread.

you can't have both.

[Seto Kaiba]

funny seto.. last major debate you said that canon policy was invalid/not applicable.

Wrong.

Look again, friend... you'll find that, contrary to your claim, I'm making pretty much the exact same argument in both threads.

What Harmony Gold has said on Robotech.com is that, in the event a story contradicts events in the series, the series takes priority over anything produced later story-wise.

Simple (official) answer... per Harmony Gold, if the story of a subsequent work contradicts that of the series, the subsequent work's story takes a backseat to that of the series.

Please stop misrepresenting my statements.

[glitterboy2098]

and then you go on..

Harmony Gold's canon policy is not actually discussed on their website, and usually only comes up in interviews and the occasional discussion panel question.

so either it is or it isn't. you just used their website policy to argue canon in this thread. therefor you must believe it applies ot the canon.
yet in the garfish thread you argued that the website policy does not apply to robotech canon, and used that arguement to support your claims there.

it either applies at all times, or it doesn't.

if it applies, since the show does not specify the population of earth, the bit about millions of people is canon and therefor my reasoning above is valid.
if it does not apply, as you claimed in the garfish thread, then the canon cannot be determined by either of us (as we do not work for HG)

either way you should really stop harping on the 70,000 thing, because it is clear that harmony gold is ignoring that number.

[Seto Kaiba]

so either it is or it isn't. you just used their website policy to argue canon in this thread. therefor you must believe it applies ot the canon.

I think you missed the part where I clarified that exact point in the other thread. I'll go over it again for you.

We aren't talking about whether the whole of Shadow Chronicles is considered an official installment of Robotech or not... we know it is. We're talking about a conflict in the content of two different canon titles: the original series, and the Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles "movie". Per Harmony Gold's policy there, if you've got two official Robotech titles that contradict each other on in-story details, the details in the series take precedence over the details in whatever the other Robotech title was.

yet in the garfish thread you argued that the website policy does not apply to robotech canon, and used that arguement to support your claims there.

... and I spoke correctly. Nothing in that policy pertains to whether or not a source is an official part of the Robotech narrative or not. What the policy does concern, if you read it, is establishing that the series version of story's content takes precedence over conflicting versions in other official, canon Robotech media.

if it applies, since the show does not specify the population of earth, the bit about millions of people is canon and therefor my reasoning above is valid.

On two separate occasions, in two separate sagas, the show cites the post-Rain of Death population as 70,000. One statement to that effect comes directly from the de facto military governor of Earth.

Per Harmony GOld, your reasoning is not valid, because it flies in the face of their approved method for dealing with contradictions like this between two canon sources.

[Aaryq]

What about the EBSIS during the pre-Zent invasion days?

I might just end up going RDF/ASC transition timeframe and use renegade Zentradi and EBSIS as my primary antagonists (and then let the Robotech Masters take over).

[Seto Kaiba]

What about the EBSIS during the pre-Zent invasion days?

Well... EBSIS is non-canon, and exists only in the 1st Edition RPG.

The role of resident antagonist to the United Earth Government in the pre-Zentradi days is occupied by the Anti-Unification League in canon and the 2nd Edition RPG. Less an "evil Russians" thing and more an "evil terrorists using Russian-made hardware" thing.

Leonard and T.R. Edwards were some of their bosses.

[eliakon]

if it applies, since the show does not specify the population of earth, the bit about millions of people is canon and therefor my reasoning above is valid.

On two separate occasions, in two separate sagas, the show cites the post-Rain of Death population as 70,000. One statement to that effect comes directly from the de facto military governor of Earth.

Per Harmony GOld, your reasoning is not valid, because it flies in the face of their approved method for dealing with contradictions like this between two canon sources.

Actually neither of those statements are specific.
Especially since the personal statement is NOT qualified. We do not know if he was speaking of the 70,000 as being the survivors of the rain of death, or if that was 70,000 survivors of Khyrons attack. Also we do not have anything to back up that he is being truthful or honest. Thus his statement does not have to be in conflict.
Combined with the other statements and images (Lynn Kyle complaining about doing shows for refuges, people exiting shelters, etc) it is perfectly possible to conclude that their were more than 70,000 total survivors on earth.

[Jefffar]

Wow, this has drifted well away from the actual original topic and the follow ups from the OP. So I think it's time to just let it die.

To the OP, as pointed out, there are varying levels of what is and isnt official in the Robotech universe, however, the Harmony Gold Approved RPG information does provide possible conflicts in the era after the Zentraedi assault. Similarly the RPG Tactics miniatures game also provides alternate mecha and factions that can expand the universe during that period.

If you want to look at the pre-Macross era, while there is likely a great asymmetry in those conflicts due to only one side possessing significant quantities of mecha, aircraft and armoured vehicles, that does not mean that an interesting campaign is not possible. A campaign around the 'three block wars' that the infantry experience or focused on espionage and counter terrorism, while light on the giant robots, is still definitely possible in this era (as it is in the final years before the Master's saga begins).

Harmony Gold has given the RPGs enough authority to open the door to adventures off the screen, so please feel free to dive into them.