Mecha as Spaceship Weapons - split from Robotech: Spaceships

[Zer0 Kay]

Well yes you can retrofit a platform to carry new types of weapons, and you should be able to do the same thing with mecha. The point though is that said update has yet to take place canonically speaking in RT.

but it does. We know in canon that they will make airframe modifications on the fly. Max's ruddervaders. All VHTs used in the space assault with the enclosed cockpit. Malcontent's Stingers/frankenmecha. All of these are canon examples of air/frame modifications performed (frequently) in the field. Only rules for Max's ruddervaders not being present could suggest that Max's "GM" allowed him to make the modifications.

I'd say the simple modification can be done. I don't know if the same amount or even long range missiles should be allowed.
1: A bomb is going to be about a third the size of a missile doing comparable damage.
2: Standard missiles are programmed then launched, all those issues previously covered about software, having to link avionics system to the new missile racks, blah, blah, blah (to which the counter is at least a bomb bay should have some of that data set up already, compared to Max's ruddervaders. Then again maybe RT uses something like Bluetooth for their weapon data links.)

[glitterboy2098]

and LRM's aren't all cruise missile equivilents.. vehicle launched ones seem to range between heavy AAM's, anti-ship missiles, and Air launched cruise missile's.. so something like a Phoenix Missile or a Exocet could be used as a model for them as well.. and those kinds of missiles are aimed by the firing platform before launch, using data connections not much different than those use for a light AAM (like a sidewinder), medium AAM (like an AMRAAM), ground attack missile (maverick) etc..the big limits on such missiles in real life is the weight limits of the pylon connection, and whether the plane has the software to support using them.

[Zer0 Kay]

and LRM's aren't all cruise missile equivilents.. vehicle launched ones seem to range between heavy AAM's, anti-ship missiles, and Air launched cruise missile's.. so something like a Phoenix Missile or a Exocet could be used as a model for them as well.. and those kinds of missiles are aimed by the firing platform before launch, using data connections not much different than those use for a light AAM (like a sidewinder), medium AAM (like an AMRAAM), ground attack missile (maverick) etc..the big limits on such missiles in real life is the weight limits of the pylon connection, and whether the plane has the software to support using them.

Yes GB, which is why I mentioned that there may still be hard/firm/software issues. There are far greater factors than software. Physical size of internal bays for example the connection type between missile and pylon for compatible pylons to the aircraft (maybe the pylon doesn't have the right connection type, requiring a complete rebuild of the pylon to support the missile. Maybe there isn't enough wires from the avionics bay to the missile pylons to support the particular kind of communication required. Maybe.... there are a lot of maybes. Software is one of the lowest. If your really talking about software, that can be easily installed. If your talking about firmware, yeah that is a lot harder especially if it isn't updatable, quick make the chips, no NOT the corn... yeah fine with the guac then.

[ShadowLogan]

but it does. We know in canon that they will make airframe modifications on the fly. Max's ruddervaders. All VHTs used in the space assault with the enclosed cockpit. Malcontent's Stingers/frankenmecha. All of these are canon examples of air/frame modifications performed (frequently) in the field. Only rules for Max's ruddervaders not being present could suggest that Max's "GM" allowed him to make the modifications.

Within the show, yes there are examples of modifications that occur: VF-1 armor packs, Alpha/Beta Shadow Systems, the VHT's space pack. All of which are considered w/n the RPG as being available. Max's modification isn't, but can be covered by the IMU rules (it appears to be a one-off). Even updating the mecha can be done via IMU rules, but implementation isn't going to be standard for each GM world and aren't canon (RPG or show) at this point so they really haven't been done from that POV.

I'd say the simple modification can be done. I don't know if the same amount or even long range missiles should be allowed.
1: A bomb is going to be about a third the size of a missile doing comparable damage.

The bombs in RT are much heavier than their missile counterpart (Short Range Missile = Light Bomb, Medium Range Missile = Medium Bomb, Long Range Missile = Heavy Bomb), so by mass/weight it should be possible to fit something in that class in a platform optimized design for the missile though. Comparing RL examples, yes there can be a size issue, but w/n the RPG/RT it may not hold true since dimensions are sketchy to say the least on a given missile/bomb.

If your really talking about software, that can be easily installed. If your talking about firmware, yeah that is a lot harder especially if it isn't updatable, quick make the chips, no NOT the corn... yeah fine with the guac then.

While installation of software is easily done for the most part, you still have to write and test the code before hand. That is not easily done.

so something like a Phoenix Missile or a Exocet could be used as a model for them as well.

No they can't. While they are considered Long Range Missiles in Real Life, the performance range on either missile puts them closer to the Medium Range Missile category on Palladium's Missile tables IINM than the LRM category. Actually there a variety of RL-air launched LRMs (including Cruise variety) that would would fall on the Palladium MRM category when you get down to it.

[Zer0 Kay]

But shadow, RT is real life...

[glitterboy2098]

If we're going by stats, lrms have no real world plane-carried equivalent because the closest real world rocket powered missiles with lrm range, speed, and firepower are.. sub launched ballistic missiles.

I'm going by how they are used in the show,. Which is mainly as anti shipping missiles (against warships) or as heavy antimecha missiles. We don't see them employed like cruise missiles at all.

[eliakon]

If we're going by stats, lrms have no real world plane-carried equivalent because the closest real world rocket powered missiles with lrm range, speed, and firepower are.. sub launched ballistic missiles.

I'm going by how they are used in the show,. Which is mainly as anti shipping missiles (against warships) or as heavy antimecha missiles. We don't see them employed like cruise missiles at all.

I wasn't trying to have them be used like cruise missiles in role. I was asking about the possibility of having missiles be carried in bomb bays, and used modern cruise missiles as an example of a RW missile that does that.

[glitterboy2098]

If we're going by stats, lrms have no real world plane-carried equivalent because the closest real world rocket powered missiles with lrm range, speed, and firepower are.. sub launched ballistic missiles.

I'm going by how they are used in the show,. Which is mainly as anti shipping missiles (against warships) or as heavy antimecha missiles. We don't see them employed like cruise missiles at all.

I wasn't trying to have them be used like cruise missiles in role. I was asking about the possibility of having missiles be carried in bomb bays, and used modern cruise missiles as an example of a RW missile that does that.

And I don't have an issue with that. But when people are using the technical limitations of cruise missile targeting and such to govern lrms, I thought clarification of their role in the show was needed.

Plus, we have examples of heavy missiles in bays too. Even ignoring the F-35, the YF-23, the PAKFA, the J-20, etc.. the B-1 was originally going to be able to mount AIM-54 missiles internally (38 of them in rotary racks), the F106 had internal bay for missiles, and the S-3 ASW plane can carry mavericks and harpoons internally (in a bay originally not designed for them)

[Zer0 Kay]

but it does. We know in canon that they will make airframe modifications on the fly. Max's ruddervaders. All VHTs used in the space assault with the enclosed cockpit. Malcontent's Stingers/frankenmecha. All of these are canon examples of air/frame modifications performed (frequently) in the field. Only rules for Max's ruddervaders not being present could suggest that Max's "GM" allowed him to make the modifications.

Within the show, yes there are examples of modifications that occur: VF-1 armor packs, Alpha/Beta Shadow Systems, the VHT's space pack. All of which are considered w/n the RPG as being available. Max's modification isn't, but can be covered by the IMU rules (it appears to be a one-off). Even updating the mecha can be done via IMU rules, but implementation isn't going to be standard for each GM world and aren't canon (RPG or show) at this point so they really haven't been done from that POV.

I'd say the simple modification can be done. I don't know if the same amount or even long range missiles should be allowed.
1: A bomb is going to be about a third the size of a missile doing comparable damage.

The bombs in RT are much heavier than their missile counterpart (Short Range Missile = Light Bomb, Medium Range Missile = Medium Bomb, Long Range Missile = Heavy Bomb), so by mass/weight it should be possible to fit something in that class in a platform optimized design for the missile though. Comparing RL examples, yes there can be a size issue, but w/n the RPG/RT it may not hold true since dimensions are sketchy to say the least on a given missile/bomb.

If your really talking about software, that can be easily installed. If your talking about firmware, yeah that is a lot harder especially if it isn't updatable, quick make the chips, no NOT the corn... yeah fine with the guac then.

While installation of software is easily done for the most part, you still have to write and test the code before hand. That is not easily done.

so something like a Phoenix Missile or a Exocet could be used as a model for them as well.

No they can't. While they are considered Long Range Missiles in Real Life, the performance range on either missile puts them closer to the Medium Range Missile category on Palladium's Missile tables IINM than the LRM category. Actually there a variety of RL-air launched LRMs (including Cruise variety) that would would fall on the Palladium MRM category when you get down to it.

So Sony that I'll take it as a canon RPG reference and not a canon series reference. Was there any series bombs? Did those bombs have a comparably smaller or larger explosion to an equivalently sized missile?

RT... Heck all PB games NEVER give dimensions on a missile. It is VERY likely that the small bombs could be much smaller than a missile.