On a lighter note: Admiral Gloval's Cadillac limousine!

[Tim Wing]

So, what is there, like, zero information about? The cars of Robotech! This is my first in a series of automobile write ups for cars seen in the Robotech saga. Of course, all information is made up. About the only info we have on the thing is from the Macross OSM where it is referred to as a Caderac or some other permutation of the Cadillac name. So, as always, take my file with a big grain of salt. Enjoy!

http://www.robotechillustrated.com/un-s ... -brougham/

FB page

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Robotech ... 099?ref=hl

[Seto Kaiba]

So, what is there, like, zero information about? The cars of Robotech! This is my first in a series of automobile write ups for cars seen in the Robotech saga. Of course, all information is made up. About the only info we have on the thing is from the Macross OSM where it is referred to as a Caderac or some other permutation of the Cadillac name.

Actually, there's a fair bit of information out there about the cars seen in the original Macross...

This specific one would actually be a GM, not a Cadillac... the name of the car is "Cadillada", and the one seen in the series is the 2007 model. Also, considering what's said of other war-era production vehicles, in all likelihood it has a hydrogen engine rather than running on gasoline or diesel. Also, that bulge in the top of the passenger compartment is almost certainly the same type of periscope (don't ask why, I have NO IDEA) found on the Shinnakasu Red Imperial 99 that Kaifun/Kyle drives.

[Tim Wing]

Actually, there's a fair bit of information out there about the cars seen in the original Macross...

Ah, sweet. Got a link?

This specific one would actually be a GM, not a Cadillac... the name of the car is "Cadillada"

That's right. Couldn't remember for sure. In my "interpretation" I'm going with the idea that the Macross names were meant mirror real world companies, without invoking copy right infringements, so Caillada would equal Cadillac, Stonewell would equal Rockwell, etc...

Also, considering what's said of other war-era production vehicles, in all likelihood it has a hydrogen engine rather than running on gasoline or diesel.

Hydrogen will probably never be a viable alternate fuel, simply due to the fact that it is relatively energy intensive to produce. I think a more likely alternative would be CNG and bio-diesel in the short term, and full electrics in the long term. Of course, post rain of death all cars might as well be gas guzzling V8s since there would be way less people (70,000... 1,000,000... whatever) driving cars. That would be a significant decrees in supply and demand I imagine.

Also, that bulge in the top of the passenger compartment is almost certainly the same type of periscope (don't ask why, I have NO IDEA)

I noticed that on the fuzzy copy of the artwork AFTER I had drawn and scanned this artwork.... (Annoyed face). I'm guessing it was a reverse camera to make up for the fact that there seems to be no rear view mirrors.

Shinnakasu Red Imperial 99 that Kaifun/Kyle drives.

Shinnakasu Red Imperial 99 could either built by automotive arm of Shinnakasu Heavy Industries, who also built the J model of the VF-1. That or it could be a Chrysler Imperial, or simply Imperial (the now defunct division of Chrysler, though in 1984 they were still around).

[Seto Kaiba]

Ah, sweet. Got a link?

More of a book, actually... the source is Macross Chronicle (Revised and Expanded "2nd" edition), on Mechanic Sheet SDFM TV Citizen 03A/B "Civilian Vehicles".

EDIT: Also DYRL Citizen 01A "Civilian Vehicles". Additional information about later civilian cars and other non-military vehicles can be found on the following Mechanic Sheets: Plus Citizen 02A "Vehicles of Planet Eden", 7 Citizen 03A/B "City 7 Civilian Vehicles", D7 Citizen 03A "Vehicles of Planet Zola", and F Citizen 01A "Macross Frontier Civilian Vehicles". This list does not include civilian-owned mecha.

That's right. Couldn't remember for sure. In my "interpretation" I'm going with the idea that the Macross names were meant mirror real world companies, without invoking copy right infringements, [...]

Well, you're bang-on right there... that's what they actually are. The term is "bland name" products, a non-infringing way of using real-world company names without their permission. Macross is LOADED with 'em (e.g. Stonewell, Bellcom, Mauler, Centinental), though there are a few terrible wordplay jokes or major aviation in-jokes passed off as company names... Three Star, the factory ship group, is a pun on Mitsubishi, which can be read "Three Diamonds", and the gunpod manufacturers are Howard and Hughes respectively... which needs no explanation. About the only one that ISN'T in those categories is LAI.

so Caillada would equal Cadillac, Stonewell would equal Rockwell, etc...

You misunderstand me... "Cadillada" is the name of the model of car. The manufacturer is GN, who (obviously) is a "bland name" version of General Motors. Saying "GN Cadillada" would be like saying "GMC Sierra", "Ford Mustang", or "Chrysler 200".

Hydrogen will probably never be a viable alternate fuel, simply due to the fact that it is relatively energy intensive to produce.

Made practical and viable in Macross and Robotech, where large-scale hydrogen fuel production happens to be a thing thanks to the military... who use hydrogen as their fuel of choice. In Macross's universe(s), hydrogen slush is alleged to be the preferred fuel for thermonuclear reaction power generation, and Robotech uses stabilized LMH instead.

They do cite a practical reason for it though... air quality. The initiative to switch to low-emission hydrogen engines was led by vehicles designed for export to airtight settlements in space (like the Apollo Base colony or space colony clusters) or usage aboard space-going ships, where air quality is a matter of life and death.

For that reason, even the Beatrice 8x8 AFV in Macross Frontier is said to use a 350 horsepower hydrogen gas turbine.

I noticed that on the fuzzy copy of the artwork AFTER I had drawn and scanned this artwork.... (Annoyed face). I'm guessing it was a reverse camera to make up for the fact that there seems to be no rear view mirrors.

Yeah, the exact word they use is "periscope"... our working hypothesis is that it's meant to operate like the 360-degree parking/reverse assist cameras which are expected to become mandatory on real-world cars in the next decade. I was baffling over it and one of the managers I work with here at Chrysler practically shoved a schematic for that very system under my nose.

Shinnakasu Red Imperial 99 could either built by automotive arm of Shinnakasu Heavy Industries, who also built the J model of the VF-1. That or it could be a Chrysler Imperial, or simply Imperial (the now defunct division of Chrysler, though in 1984 they were still around).

Nope, not a Chrysler... the description has it as a luxury car produced by Shinnakasu Heavy Industry circa 1999. "Red Imperial" is the name of the model of car. That's not to say Chrysler doesn't exist though... in Macross Frontier, Ozma's Lee's car is very visibly a mid-2000s Lancia Delta HF Integrale with mods to enable it to operate on the Milky Road.

[glitterboy2098]

actually, in the RPG at least the use of SLMH fusion suggests that hydrogen cars would be common, post-RoD is not before. and i'd imagine that hydrogen-electric hybrids would have been the next big thing in the time before.. better energy storage means better electric cars, and with SLMH production for all the mecha they'd need to defend earth (not to mention all the spacecraft and rockets) it wouldn't be too hard to just build a bigger hydrogen cracking and bottling infrastructure than the SLMH production needed, and build a hydrogen infrastructure.

[taalismn]

And we STILL don't see the DL cargo bed truck statted up!!!!!

We see a the stats for a MEGADAGE TUNA TRUCK, but not for an all-environment heavy pallet carrier and destroid recovery vehicle!!!

Yes, your sushi is better protected than your quartermaster corps.

[Seto Kaiba]

We see a the stats for a MEGADAGE TUNA TRUCK, but not for an all-environment heavy pallet carrier and destroid recovery vehicle!!!

Clearly then, the answer is to cover every destroid in need of battlefield recovery in raw tuna. Foolproof.

Yes, your sushi is better protected than your quartermaster corps.

The chefs in the officer's mess are VERY particular about their tuna...

[taalismn]

[The chefs in the officer's mess are VERY particular about their tuna...

Vaccum-flash-frozen, flown in from Pluto.

Though I stand corrected; the fish on the side of the stated truck is a swordfish, not a tuna, but the MDC fishmarket complaint stands.

[Seto Kaiba]

Though I stand corrected; the fish on the side of the stated truck is a swordfish, not a tuna, but the MDC fishmarket complaint stands.

Little known UEDF tactical secret... elite infantry are trained in the ancient, deadly art of piscine fencing. The swordfish are military issue.

[Alpha 11]

And we STILL don't see the DL cargo bed truck statted up!!!!!

We see a the stats for a MEGADAGE TUNA TRUCK, but not for an all-environment heavy pallet carrier and destroid recovery vehicle!!!

Yes, your sushi is better protected than your quartermaster corps.

We see a the stats for a MEGADAGE TUNA TRUCK, but not for an all-environment heavy pallet carrier and destroid recovery vehicle!!!

Clearly then, the answer is to cover every destroid in need of battlefield recovery in raw tuna. Foolproof.

Yes, your sushi is better protected than your quartermaster corps.

The chefs in the officer's mess are VERY particular about their tuna...

And nice filler info!

[Tim Wing]

taalismn wrote:
We see a the stats for a MEGADAGE TUNA TRUCK, but not for an all-environment heavy pallet carrier and destroid recovery vehicle!!!

Clearly then, the answer is to cover every destroid in need of battlefield recovery in raw tuna. Foolproof.


taalismn wrote:
Yes, your sushi is better protected than your quartermaster corps.

The chefs in the officer's mess are VERY particular about their tuna...

An Army travels on its stomach, you guys know this! lol.

[Tim Wing]

Also, here's a thought: Did the vehicles on Macross Island start out conventional, and then get converted to Hydrogen so that they may be used within the confines of the SDF-1?

What is the feasibility of a hydrogen conversion on a normal, fuel injected internal combustion engine? I know that BMW was running several prototypes based on their production engines in the 90's, before it was abandoned as not cost effective.

[guardiandashi]

Also, here's a thought: Did the vehicles on Macross Island start out conventional, and then get converted to Hydrogen so that they may be used within the confines of the SDF-1?

What is the feasibility of a hydrogen conversion on a normal, fuel injected internal combustion engine? I know that BMW was running several prototypes based on their production engines in the 90's, before it was abandoned as not cost effective.

I think not cost effective really sums it up. by my understanding.

plain hydrogen storage is a major pain at least with todays tech. you either need to store it as pressurized gas, with all the hazards that entails, or store it as a cryogenic liquid, which entails even MORE issues. in order to get practical amounts into a vehicle.

One trick I saw was to mount a fuel cell motor instaid of a internal combustion engine as it uses the hydrogen more efficiently, then use say a large water storage tank, and some catalyst, which aggressively grabs the oxygen out of water, and then capture the hydrogen for the use of the fuel cell.

[taalismn]

I'd be more inclined to think that most cars aboard the SDF-1 would be converted to an electric battery format.
Fuel Cells for EVA-capable trucks, maybe, since usable water would be a byproduct that could be recaptured and re-used.

[Seto Kaiba]

Also, here's a thought: Did the vehicles on Macross Island start out conventional, and then get converted to Hydrogen so that they may be used within the confines of the SDF-1?

According to the aforementioned Macross Chronicle sheets, the majority of vehicles in service were already hydrogen-powered before they ended up inside the Macross. The only one that I think would have almost certainly started out gasoline-powered and would need to be converted would the Shinnakasu Red Imperial 99 that Kaifun owns... since that's almost certainly the oldest car in the series, and the only one we're certain was built before overtechnology was introduced to most fields of human endeavor.

Pretty much every non-mecha vehicle after the first space war is either hydrogen-powered (like the Beatrice 8x8 AFV) or running on fuel cells (like EX-Gear).

What is the feasibility of a hydrogen conversion on a normal, fuel injected internal combustion engine? I know that BMW was running several prototypes based on their production engines in the 90's, before it was abandoned as not cost effective.

There are some calibrations changes and fuel storage system modifications that need to be made, but it IS do-able... might take a couple days of shop time for a mechanic to do it if it's a one-off custom-fab. Out in my neck of the woods, there is a modest presence of hydrogen-powered vehicles. Some of the larger Ford F-series bus conversions are especially popular in that respect. (IIRC, they're built off the Ford F-650 platform.)

I think not cost effective really sums it up. by my understanding.

plain hydrogen storage is a major pain at least with todays tech.

To be fair, "not cost-effective" is a problem initially faced by any emerging alt-fuel technology. People were saying the same about hybrids, and within about another ten years hybrids are going to end up the norm in American car sales thanks to tightening CAFE and emissions standards. The gov't is demanding a corporate average fuel economy of 55mpg in the not-too-distant future...

With a massive hydrogen-bottling infrastructure being built to supply the military, it's only natural it would spill over into civilian markets to amortize the costs... especially since emissions regulations and concerns about air quality would still be a thing before the Macross fell, and would only get more prominent after it crashed and after the war.

[glitterboy2098]

One trick I saw was to mount a fuel cell motor instaid of a internal combustion engine as it uses the hydrogen more efficiently, then use say a large water storage tank, and some catalyst, which aggressively grabs the oxygen out of water, and then capture the hydrogen for the use of the fuel cell.

wouldn't work. the amount of energy needed to crack the water to H2 and O2 is greater than the energy you get back by combining them. fuel cell systems use stored hydrogen and a supply of oxygen that is separate. the cracking takes place elsewhere. for cars, most fuel cell concepts make use of atmospheric oxygen, and use compressed hydrogen gas as fuel. fuel cells have been used on spacecraft a lot, where they use the liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen of the rocket for fuel. submarines using them (the germans have several) use hydrogen gas compressed in tanks, and then reservoirs of air compressed when the sub surfaces, or pulled through a snorkel.

[guardiandashi]

One trick I saw was to mount a fuel cell motor instaid of a internal combustion engine as it uses the hydrogen more efficiently, then use say a large water storage tank, and some catalyst, which aggressively grabs the oxygen out of water, and then capture the hydrogen for the use of the fuel cell.

wouldn't work. the amount of energy needed to crack the water to H2 and O2 is greater than the energy you get back by combining them. fuel cell systems use stored hydrogen and a supply of oxygen that is separate. the cracking takes place elsewhere. for cars, most fuel cell concepts make use of atmospheric oxygen, and use compressed hydrogen gas as fuel. fuel cells have been used on spacecraft a lot, where they use the liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen of the rocket for fuel. submarines using them (the germans have several) use hydrogen gas compressed in tanks, and then reservoirs of air compressed when the sub surfaces, or pulled through a snorkel.

in general agreed, that's why I said it was a "trick" yes there was a net loss of energy in the system likely even a big one. the point of the "trick" was that the catalyst once prepared "released energy ripping apart the water to get at the oxygen" the major energy loss was in preparing the catalyst.

The effect IF it worked as described would be:
1 you create a catalyst processing plant close to a power generation plant (to avoid transmission losses)
2 you process the catalyst at the plant and ship the prepared catalyst around.
3 you load the prepared catalyst into the vehicle that is going to use it, and "water" in a separate tank.
4 water is pumped into a "reaction chamber" and exposed to the catalyst
5 the hydrogen gas is captured from the "reaction chamber" and fed to the fuel cell
6 the fuel cell generates electricity that is used to power the vehicle.

basically the idea was to get a portable low effective energy use hydrogen "generator" this was intended to "sidestep" some of the hydrogen processing and storage issues. I suspect it wouldn't work as well as the proponents claim... but it seems a little more sound than the "solar roads" idea.