Dungeon Crawl in the Factory Satellite

[mech798]

What is this you ask? Just some thoughts.

1. The factory satellite is nearly inconcievable in size. 3000KM long by up to 500 KM thick. That doesn't count the subsidiary pods.

Now, think about new york-- and make nearly an entire world of new york. What is in there? The zentraedi may not no. There are dysfunctional parts. What about the computer? To run it would require a tremendously advanced system or a network fo smaller systems. Just getting around the thing probably needs a network of travel systems that move at a very high speed-- and even if you're travelling a 1000KPG, that's three hours to go from one end to the other. Parts of the factory may very well be inaccessible simply because those units have broken down.

Consider that it took the entire world ten years to refit the SDF-1. Now they have tow ork on a damaged factory satellite, that is far larger than anything ever seen-- ever dreamed possible by mankind.

What is ijn it? Escaped prisoners from other worlds? Rogue robots running off of old code. Zentraedi who's programming somehow failed and are living a feral existence? mabye bays full of mecha or warships, left in storage and forgotten-- with or without zentraedi crews in stasis. (and won't that be embaressing if one day Admiral Hunter wakes up to see a bunch of khyron clones rampaging through the cafeteria. Janitorial's gonna get some snarls.).

To solve all of this, you'll need to send Troubleshooter-er, intrepid explorers into the ship to make certain that the maps coincide with the reality and that the...*thing* on sublevel 23, you know the one that likes to talk in gregorian chants has has way too many tentacles is friendly or at least just an animal. Then there's the fact that spare parts have been vanisghing from one of hte occupied levels and the robots refuse to explain why...

[filo_clarke]

I really like this.

In the old Return of the Masters adventure, a factory satelite pops into orbit, on a pre-programmed trajectory that it has been taking around the galaxy. The players have to go onto it and deactivate the fold system so it doesn't jump again.

But what if, during some if its other folds, it appeared around some alien planet whose inhabitants wanted to take a closer look at the new orbital arrival, and sent an expedition team, only to lose them when the satelite folded away again. There could be a small population of a number of different species living on board, just trying to reach the main control areas and fold the ship back home (if they even understand the concepts of that kind of space-drive).

Yes, this scenario could be a pretty fun campaign with lots of twists and turns along the way. I approve!

[taalismn]

Could be entire displaced cultures that snuck aboard and are now living in the 'basement'.
"Yeah, we're Atlanteans, who the hell are you schmucks?"

[Phaze]

This would be awesome to do... Maybe even play it as castaways. Shuttlecraft and mecha (on a three hour mission, LOL) land to investigate the Island in the sky, it jumps out and strands the characters on board...with who knows what else. You have automated repair bots running around, other trapped aliens, the mutitude of production facilities (furnaces, robotic assemblers, conveyor systems, control systems, and a whole host of individual part manufacturing facilities).

Mission:
1) Survive (through a multitude of adventures, including getting food, oxygen (maybe even a sealed area with life support), fighting alien cockroaches, not be confused for alien cockroaches by the automated systems, etc...)
2) Find Command Center and get status.
3) interupt the timed jump sequences and find a way to get home.

Reminds me of a cross between Giligans Isle and Stargate Destiny.

[filo_clarke]

Using some of the material in Mechanoids: Journey would work great. Water pipes, power conduits, air ducts, and endless hallways, would be great, if it weren't for the factory's automated defense systems. Maybe the factory computer even has to start hatching more and more clever plans to eliminate these new "pests".

Yes, I like this.

[Chris0013]

What mecha and gear do I get??

[taalismn]

Using some of the material in Mechanoids: Journey would work great. Water pipes, power conduits, air ducts, and endless hallways, would be great, if it weren't for the factory's automated defense systems. Maybe the factory computer even has to start hatching more and more clever plans to eliminate these new "pests".
.

Or the computer comes up with 'tests' for its 'guests'. The AI could have developed some bizarre ideas during a century of following orders; it could be insane, it could be bored, it could be insanely bored, it could be approaching sentience, but has scrambled ideas and perceptions on how to react to outside factors...unknowns, like lifeforms straying into unauthorized areas...why?
(James Hogan's Two Faces of Tomorrow has a similarly-scaled set-up, where in order to test a supercomputer's sentience and safeguards before applying the system to a worldwide application, they come up with the harebrained scheme of installing it inside a massive space colony, giving it access to the colony's robotic industrial complex, then ATTACK it with a division of elite troops, just to see how it reacts--Badly as it turns out, when the AI starts creating robot troops, flushing soldiers out airlocks, and shooting at passing spaceships)

[mech798]

Even if you dno't assume an AI, there are probably semi-AI systems wandering around-- but even if it's just he satellite that the UEEF got imagine stmbling over say, a small fleet of ships-- now what do you do? Are there zentraedi on board?

IMO, this is another reason why the resource problems of the UEEF, beyond not having enough people, make no sense. Teh amount of resources within even a single factory satellite comfortably outmatch everything mankind has made since the first stone axe.

[Seto Kaiba]

What is in it? Escaped prisoners from other worlds? Rogue robots running off of old code. Zentraedi who's programming somehow failed and are living a feral existence? mabye bays full of mecha or warships, left in storage and forgotten-- with or without zentraedi crews in stasis. (and won't that be embaressing if one day Admiral Hunter wakes up to see a bunch of khyron clones rampaging through the cafeteria. Janitorial's gonna get some snarls.).

Nah, nothin' like that... to achieve a peaceful and lasting galactic empire, that's where the Tirolians exiled all their IRS auditors, telemarketers, door-to-door salesmen, and marketing executives.

(Seriously, every time I try to picture the sort of plot that I'd run in a place like that, it turns into something not dissimilar to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.)

[mech798]

What is in it? Escaped prisoners from other worlds? Rogue robots running off of old code. Zentraedi who's programming somehow failed and are living a feral existence? mabye bays full of mecha or warships, left in storage and forgotten-- with or without zentraedi crews in stasis. (and won't that be embaressing if one day Admiral Hunter wakes up to see a bunch of khyron clones rampaging through the cafeteria. Janitorial's gonna get some snarls.).

Nah, nothin' like that... to achieve a peaceful and lasting galactic empire, that's where the Tirolians exiled all their IRS auditors, telemarketers, door-to-door salesmen, and marketing executives.

(Seriously, every time I try to picture the sort of plot that I'd run in a place like that, it turns into something not dissimilar to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.)

I always get the image of BSG only in style and in comfort, as the Robotech Masters arrive later to find the earth compleely denuded of everything including the SDF-1, with a burgoning humanity enjoying existence in near-continent sized environment chambers deep in the factory satellite which has become the center of a space borne society.

[taalismn]

What is in it? Escaped prisoners from other worlds? Rogue robots running off of old code. Zentraedi who's programming somehow failed and are living a feral existence? mabye bays full of mecha or warships, left in storage and forgotten-- with or without zentraedi crews in stasis. (and won't that be embaressing if one day Admiral Hunter wakes up to see a bunch of khyron clones rampaging through the cafeteria. Janitorial's gonna get some snarls.).

Nah, nothin' like that... to achieve a peaceful and lasting galactic empire, that's where the Tirolians exiled all their IRS auditors, telemarketers, door-to-door salesmen, and marketing executives.

(Seriously, every time I try to picture the sort of plot that I'd run in a place like that, it turns into something not dissimilar to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.)

You forgot: Telephone Sanitizers. Although maybe the Robotech Masters were smart enough to realize that in a clone society with a limited gene pool, you can't jeopardize the spread of disease, and so retained TSes in their society.
Either that, or they switched over complete to hands-free devices.

[glitterboy2098]

Using some of the material in Mechanoids: Journey would work great. Water pipes, power conduits, air ducts, and endless hallways, would be great, if it weren't for the factory's automated defense systems. Maybe the factory computer even has to start hatching more and more clever plans to eliminate these new "pests".
.

Or the computer comes up with 'tests' for its 'guests'. The AI could have developed some bizarre ideas during a century of following orders; it could be insane, it could be bored, it could be insanely bored, it could be approaching sentience, but has scrambled ideas and perceptions on how to react to outside factors...unknowns, like lifeforms straying into unauthorized areas...why?

an AI that has gone nuts, building a society of (flawed) cloned zents/tirolians loyal to it, paranoid about infiltration by outside groups (like disciples of zor) and internal strife, and segregating their highly ordered life by colors..

"Citizen! Dying before reporting drug defects is treason!"

"Please refrain from smoking when terminated."

"Attention, citizens: catching fire and running around in circles is NOT a Computer-approved recreational activity."

"Thank you for your report, Citizen. Unfortunately, your team is not equipped to handle the additional threat. Please do not engage the additional disciple of zor traitors and proceed only with your original mission. An additional mission will be scheduled as soon as possible."

[taalismn]

Loooved that game...I was the Janitor-Clone From Hell with a Multi-Function GrimeBuster Omni-Cleaner (and I wasn't afraid to use it). Mind you, I spent half my time cleaning up the ashes of my previous incarnations, but hey, they were clearly defective and I was the pinnacle of genetically engineered sanitary engineer perfection. Right?

[sanka]

some great campain idea's here...

[mech798]

some great campain idea's here...

One thing you see in a lot of science fiction is "Big Dumb Object" for scales' sake without really considering the implications. In robotech, you have an object that is 1/4th the size of th4e moon, with more living space than the surface of the earth (by far) and we don't do anything with it. It really begs the question of why not just hop into it and *leave*.

(For scales sake if you remember the scene in shadow chronicles where their driving to get to their destination, that would be a tiny part of the RFS--to effectively travel through it you'd not be driving-- you'd need to be flying and at a pretty fair clip).

[sanka]

It was stated in the books that there were more of these factory's, and I always wanted to do a campain were a number of human crewed Zentraedi Scout ship were send out to find them.
There were preprogramed locations set in the nav computers if I'm not mistaken..

But tread this would give that campain a new edge....

[Seto Kaiba]

One thing you see in a lot of science fiction is "Big Dumb Object" for scales' sake without really considering the implications. In robotech, you have an object that is 1/4th the size of th4e moon, with more living space than the surface of the earth (by far) and we don't do anything with it.

Part of that is because there wasn't any such massive orbital factory complex in the other two original shows, so making it a significant installation in later stories was kind of out of the question. They couldn't even legally use the original design in an original animated work on their part, which further limited things.

Also, the apparent under-utilization of the factory satellites probably has something to do with the relatively small number of people that humanity has on hand. Never mind the comically exaggerated claims made in the Infopedia and RPG, what we see of the UEEF in the animation (even RTSC!) shows us that there really aren't that many humans in space. With just the 20,000 or so people the UEEF actually has in space, using even one installation the size of a factory satellite to the fullest extent of its capabilities is out of the question. Using MORE THAN ONE to the fullest is out of the question, and we know they have several (though one fewer now that Vince Grant collapsed Liberty station into a singularity). Liberty station was crewed so lightly that the entire staff could evacuate aboard just one ship... a ship barely twice the size of the SDF-1.

It really begs the question of why not just hop into it and *leave*.

Now, that we DO have an answer for... from both the series and AotSC, which is actually derived from the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series in this case.

To move an object the size of a factory satellite requires an enormous amount of energy... and moving something that huge across interstellar distances and into or out of a solar system requires both an obscene amount of energy and extraordinary precision to avoid rather horrific consequences for the planet you're moving the satellite into or out of the orbit of. Having a satellite so large it amounts to a lunar mass suddenly appear in the sky isn't something that a planet can just shrug off. At the time they moved the factory satellite to Earth-Moon L5 in the series, they had BARELY enough juice to get it there and keep it there.

Since fuel is an increasingly rare commodity in Robotech instead of literally the most plentiful element in the universe, moving it repeatedly is probably right out... whereas in the Macross 'verse humanity had no problem relocating twenty factory satellites to the Sol system.

[taalismn]

"We're going to have to re-adjust and re-calculate the tide tables to compensate for the Factory Satellite."
"So on top of reconstruction hassles, we have to worry about regular coastal flooding?"

[glitterboy2098]

"We're going to have to re-adjust and re-calculate the tide tables to compensate for the Factory Satellite."
"So on top of reconstruction hassles, we have to worry about regular coastal flooding?"

also, given the moon sized mass of the macross-style factory sat, the earth-moon two body system becomes a three body system.. the orbital center and center of mass for the system shifts, which would alter earth's magnetic field generation, cause increased volcanic activity, and orbital disruptions that mess up the seasons..

personally i'd assume that within a year, the UEG moved the factory sat somewhere else in the soalr system.. perhaps the Jupiter Trojan's, where you have a nice stable orbital location, the size and mass of the factory is not an issue, and you have a lot of raw materials to convert for use in the factory.

[Seto Kaiba]

also, given the mass of the macross-style factory sat, the earth-moon two body system becomes a three body system.. the orbital center and center of mass for the system shifts, which would alter earth's magnetic field generation, cause increased volcanic activity, and orbital disruptions that mess up the seasons..

Hence the need to be VERY careful... since having a mass that large suddenly appear in orbit would only exacerbate things, the need to keep the satellite's mass from impacting anything near it by negating it through gravity control is pretty important.

[taalismn]

[

personally i'd assume that within a year, the UEG moved the factory sat somewhere else in the soalr system.. perhaps the Jupiter Trojan's, where you have a nice stable orbital location, the size and mass of the factory is not an issue, and you have a lot of raw materials to convert for use in the factory.

Not Mars? Closer relatively speaking to Earth's space defense forces, there's the Mars colonies forming, and Mars could do with some increased volcanic activity if anybody's seriously considering terraforming.

[glitterboy2098]

also, given the mass of the macross-style factory sat, the earth-moon two body system becomes a three body system.. the orbital center and center of mass for the system shifts, which would alter earth's magnetic field generation, cause increased volcanic activity, and orbital disruptions that mess up the seasons..

Hence the need to be VERY careful... since having a mass that large suddenly appear in orbit would only exacerbate things, the need to keep the satellite's mass from impacting anything near it by negating it through gravity control is pretty important.

it's not a case of 'being careful'.. literally just being present will cause all of that. and as long as it is present that will occur. orbital mechanics and planetary geophysics don't care about the desires of man.
and gravity control is not a fail-positive approach.. for one, we know that in robotech gravity control is not entirely reliable. two, if it fails, earth is screwed..

while they did fold it into earth orbit, they certainly would not have kept it there for long.

[Seto Kaiba]

while they did fold it into earth orbit, they certainly would not have kept it there for long.

... and yet, as far as we know, they DID keep it there a long time. The factory satellite in Sentinels was supposed to be the same installation seen in the original Macross animation, though the design had to be changed because of copyright issues.

That means that, whatever its fate, it was kept in Earth orbit for at least a decade... possibly as much as 20 years.

The UEEF is not renowned, in series or out, for the soundness of its leadership's judgment.

(Of course, in Macross, there's no issue with the reliability of gravity control systems... so the factory satellite captured shortly after the first space war never left its position at Earth-Moon Lagrange 5. In the DYRLverse, the UN Spacy obtained a second factory satellite a few decades later and placed it in Earth orbit too, where they both remained well into the 2090's. The main Macross continuity has the factory satellite at L5 joined by nineteen others at various points through the Sol system, and the colony worlds of Eden and Ouroboros both have factory satellites orbiting them too (and they're implied to not be the only ones as well).

[mech798]

Which is sort of interesting in that it makes macross humanity a truly post scarcity civilization.

[Seto Kaiba]

Which is sort of interesting in that it makes macross humanity a truly post scarcity civilization.

... and an unusual one at that, since it's explicitly a capitalist post-scarcity human society. Usually when fictional societies reach the post-scarcity level, they're the kind of pseudo-communist utopia that couldn't exist in the real world. The galaxy's major races in Robotech don't seem to have ever quite reached the post-scarcity level because of their dependence on the notoriously finicky Invid Flower of Life, and most of them seem to have ended up as dictatorships along the way.

In Robotech, the factory satellites currently in human hands don't seem to be used for anything other than building the ships, fighters, and other weapons used by the Expeditionary Forces. Seems like a huge waste of potential, since human engineers don't appear to be able to duplicate the technology behind them, and manufacturing power on that scale could've been put to considerable use helping Earth's recovery.

In Macross, the UN Government used the factory satellites for a lot more than just military manufacturing... they were used to produce material for Earth's reconstruction, for space colonization, and for emigrant fleets. The technology behind them was duplicated on a smaller scale for the production of synthetic foods, consumer goods, and other necessities... as well as, yes, military hardware.

[taalismn]

My god...Macross is Star Trek, with giant robots!

[mech798]

My god...Macross is Star Trek, with giant robots!

Well, with an even better reason to explore strange new worlds. but yeah, if you look at the over all attitudes, which are mostly "we can make friends" as opposed to "fort up and kill" Macross has a very optimistic future world view that for all the horror that came before mankind is both surviving and prospering-- and not doing so by becoming the newest tyrannical space empire.

[Seto Kaiba]

but yeah, if you look at the over all attitudes, which are mostly "we can make friends" as opposed to "fort up and kill" Macross has a very optimistic future world view that for all the horror that came before mankind is both surviving and prospering-- and not doing so by becoming the newest tyrannical space empire.

Yep... though if the kind of things that've been found crawling around in the ruins of various Protoculture settlements and the other detritus left behind by the collapse of their civilization are any indication, going exploring in the neglected bowels of any particular factory satellite is the kind of thing you'll want to do without a platoon or more of Valkyries and a lot of ammo.

Humanity's track record for NOT finding horribly dangerous things while poking around in the ruins of the Protoculture's folly isn't exactly fantastic. Lux was pretty much the only time we've yet seen where they found Protoculture ruins WITHOUT a horrible threat lurking within... so, naturally, someone blew that planet up to balance the scales. On New Asia, it was giant insectoid artificial lifeforms the size of Valkyries (or bigger!). When they explored the Protoculture ruins on the ice planet in the Varauta system, they accidentally released the Protodeviln... a threat that conquered the entire Varauta system, before destroying one large-scale colony fleet and capturing another, until they were defeated. They found the Vajra nesting on old Protoculture worlds near the core, and had to develop a whole new generation of VFs over twenty years just to fight them on an even footing. Ouroboros takes the cake though, since not only did it have ruins all over the place, the ruins were crawling with ancient and aggressive bio-mechanical guardians called Dyaus... who turned out to be there not so much to protect the ruins as to protect what was in the ruins from those who might be tempted to use it, and who varied in size from bigger than VFs to dwarfing a stealth frigate.

Sufficed to say... poking around in any ancient bastion of the Protoculture is likely to end suddenly, messily, and badly for everyone (directly) involved.