Adapting zentraedi warships for colony expeditions.

[mech798]

So, first of all, just to note-- all of my campaigns assume there are, by 10 years after the ROD, at least 100 million, likely more human survivors, zentraedi immigrants etc living on earth. I nkow that's not what canon says-- but canon makes absolutely no sense.

So, presuming the intent is to use the zentradi ships to form the core fo colony expidetions, how easy would it be to modify them to do so? We know that the Macross, which is considerably smaller than even a destroyer, much less the two command ships and the carrier, held 50 thousand or so-- but a colony expedition would require more in the way of long-term storage.

[ShadowLogan]

So, presuming the intent is to use the zentradi ships to form the core fo colony expidetions, how easy would it be to modify them to do so? We know that the Macross, which is considerably smaller than even a destroyer, much less the two command ships and the carrier, held 50 thousand or so-- but a colony expedition would require more in the way of long-term storage.

The SDF-1 had 70,000 civilians pretty consistently in the dialogue, and it only drops to 56,000 once or twice.

It shouldn't be that hard, we know that Breetai's flagship received some level of modification to allow a mix sized crew to exist w/n 2years. That strongly implies one could modify the Zentreadi ships for colony expeditions pretty easily. Sacrificing Troop/mecha hangar space for the colonists would also be possible.

The main stumbling block is supply of ships and Protoculture.

[taalismn]

Plus soem of those onboard water reservoirs make for great indoor boating pools or hydroculture tanks.

[Seto Kaiba]

So, presuming the intent is to use the zentradi ships to form the core fo colony expidetions, how easy would it be to modify them to do so?

Sure... they wouldn't even need to retrofit most of the interior. Just slap in some miclone-scaled quarters and walkways and you're golden.

This is a VERY well-precedented idea, actually... in the main Macross universe, the UN Spacy used Zentradi ships for its short range (up to 100ly from Earth) colony missions. So they did pretty much exactly that... a hundred or more times, according to the available info.

[glitterboy2098]

already did half the work for you.

UES Freedom, GSV

a zent landing ship/carrier converted over to be a mobile, self contained city.. intended for deep space exploration/colony finding, but ended up being used like a mobile starbase to support a fleet.

note that the deck plan alterations assume the 1st edition deck plans.. though the stats provided are based on 2nd ed ship stats we already have.

[taalismn]

The cheap way to do it is simply assemble connex container buildings lego-style in the rooms and holds. Stack 'em up, weld or bolt them in place, put in stairways and elevators, replace the original toilet seats and sinks with feeder systems scaling down, and you're ready for transit.

[jaymz]

I do much the same. Colony class ships. Refitted zed landing ships.

[Chris0013]

Something to go with with regards to population...possibly the RoD strike hit major population centers first....all well and good that that is where most of the people live but keep in mind there are a whole lot of people outside of the major population centers.....give the main guns of the Zent fleet the damage potential of a large nuke and you still go a lot of damage...but specifically to those population areas....no additional risk of fall out. Throw in that places like Russia and the Swiss put in alot of effort for civil defense and bomb shelters.

You could argue that there were quite a few more people left to go out and colonize other planets.

[Tiree]

I strictly use the Zentraedi Scout Ship for most missions. I could see using a Landing ship as a flag ship of sorts, but nothing more. In my RoD campaigns I usually toss the players on a Scout Ship for missions, and they are one of two flights on board. With the idea that Veritechs are a hot commodity and there are not a lot available.

Which gives the players quite a bit of pull, yet keeps them under military doctrine of following orders

[glitterboy2098]

well, that is why i set the Freedom as a mobile city/starbase.. rather than being a conveyance for the characters between worlds, it is a full fledged setting area in its own right. one that could host a full campaign without ever leaving its hull if your more RP focused.

for most campaigns, it would be the place your ship (garfish, ikazuchi, tristar, what have you) docks to get resupplied, do shore leave, etc. for when you want to give your players somewhere to explore but don't want to use a planet or factory sat.

plus it makes a great backdrop for a space battle.

[jedi078]

I strictly use the Zentraedi Scout Ship for most missions. I could see using a Landing ship as a flag ship of sorts, but nothing more. In my RoD campaigns I usually toss the players on a Scout Ship for missions, and they are one of two flights on board. With the idea that Veritechs are a hot commodity and there are not a lot available.

Which gives the players quite a bit of pull, yet keeps them under military doctrine of following orders

The Zent Scout ship can be used in a myriad of roles by the UEDF/ASC/UEEF, after a refit at a Robotech factory. In fact it would probably be cheaper, and faster to refit a Zent Scout ship then build a ship from scratch.

[sanka]

I strictly use the Zentraedi Scout Ship for most missions. I could see using a Landing ship as a flag ship of sorts, but nothing more. In my RoD campaigns I usually toss the players on a Scout Ship for missions, and they are one of two flights on board. With the idea that Veritechs are a hot commodity and there are not a lot available.

Which gives the players quite a bit of pull, yet keeps them under military doctrine of following orders

The Zent Scout ship can be used in a myriad of roles by the UEDF/ASC/UEEF, after a refit at a Robotech factory. In fact it would probably be cheaper, and faster to refit a Zent Scout ship then build a ship from scratch.

My plan exactly. But I expected to place someting like 6 sqaudrons of VF's on it and some Destroids. As there would easily be enough space on it as a mecha replaces a full size zentreadi...

[Chris0013]

I strictly use the Zentraedi Scout Ship for most missions. I could see using a Landing ship as a flag ship of sorts, but nothing more. In my RoD campaigns I usually toss the players on a Scout Ship for missions, and they are one of two flights on board. With the idea that Veritechs are a hot commodity and there are not a lot available.

Which gives the players quite a bit of pull, yet keeps them under military doctrine of following orders

The Zent Scout ship can be used in a myriad of roles by the UEDF/ASC/UEEF, after a refit at a Robotech factory. In fact it would probably be cheaper, and faster to refit a Zent Scout ship then build a ship from scratch.

My plan exactly. But I expected to place someting like 6 sqaudrons of VF's on it and some Destroids. As there would easily be enough space on it as a mecha replaces a full size zentreadi...

So the rear hanger that it has and then some holes cut in the sides for extra hanger access...maybe 2 squadrons per hanger?

[glitterboy2098]

actually, given the Zent sout is roughly the size of an ikazuchi [1], if converted over to a full human scale crew, you could probably fit 10+ squadrons of VF's just using the bays already on board.. without remodeling the interior to expand the bays. remodel them to be dual level you could probably fit 20+ squadrons
the zent quarters would be better employed as storage rooms and apartment style living space.


[1] often forgotten..
fan made earth ship size comparison (may not be 100% accurate)
accurate OSM SDF-1 to zent scale comparison
brings the point across i think.

[mech798]

In my setting, (which has a somewhat higher population survival rate) zentraedi ships are almost the only thing used for civilian and paramilitary vessels. The UEEF and SC don't use them for a number of reasons ranging from the logical (The robotech masters and invid know ALL of thier weaknesses) to the illogical (we will not use alien looking ships even if the internal bits like the fold drive are from them).

[Tiree]

The reason I have such a low number of Veritech's on board is to mainly make the PC's the star of the spaceship. If there is another squad (which it definitely can hold) it's usually only acting as a carrier so they can get to where they need to go.

I have some several in game reasoning on this as well:

• Low Number of Pilots
• Low number of Mecha
• Changing of Military Doctrine - Mecha are used for more surgical strikes, while the ship has decent to excellent defenses. Add in a larger human crew, and a number of smaller human weapon systems. It can be more potent.

Now if I was going to load the ship up to the gills, I'd probably follow Glitterboy's allotment. I might drop it down some as I don't want to make the ship a carrier, but more of a dreadnaught.

[glitterboy2098]

so stuff a bunch of shuttlecraft into one of the bays, and convert another into a park or something.. zent craft are huge.. lots of space.

actually, perhaps it would double as a UNREP vessel.. convert one bay to a huge storehouse of supplies, and the 2nd to house the shuttles (human and zent) used to move those supplies. the 3rd bay would be the fighter complement, used mostly for defense..

[Seto Kaiba]

The reason I have such a low number of Veritech's on board is to mainly make the PC's the star of the spaceship. If there is another squad (which it definitely can hold) it's usually only acting as a carrier so they can get to where they need to go.

's probably more accurate to have only a squadron or two aboard a ship like that. Everyone (incl. Palladium) tends to get so wrapped up in how big the dimensions of the ship are, and forget that the ships have to have considerable internal space given over to fuel, power plants, engine systems, weapons, supplies, and various other vital bits that make long-term spaceflight possible, to say nothing of the fact that all the ship's internal spaces are laid out for someone ten meters tall.

The Zentradi picket ships have pretty minimal everything... and even if their hangar went all the way to the prow (fat chance), they'd have less room to play with than an ARMD. Considering the hangar's so small the thing doesn't even carry troop landers for battlepods, odds are it wouldn't have room for more than just one battalion (28 pods), or enough room for about two OSM squadrons worth of VFs (30) at full capacity... I've forgotten if the RT RPG says that a squadron is 12 or 24.


's why when the UN Spacy in the OSM wants to use Zentradi warships for colony ship purposes or as their major carriers, they usually use the massive ones that dwarf even the UN Spacy's warships.

[Chris0013]

What about using a Zentraedi Monitor?

[Seto Kaiba]

What about using a Zentraedi Monitor?

That's mostly gun, mac... which is why the original Japanese calls it a "gun destroyer", though "gunboat" is also a better fit (since it's designed mostly for bombarding surface targets).

[Chris0013]

What about using a Zentraedi Monitor?

That's mostly gun, mac... which is why the original Japanese calls it a "gun destroyer", though "gunboat" is also a better fit (since it's designed mostly for bombarding surface targets).

IIRC....the Monitor is roughly the size of the SDF-1....so converting the Zentraedi sized space to Human size could give you a decent ship to colonize with as well as the defensive (and offensive) capability of the main gun.

[Tiree]

The reason I have such a low number of Veritech's on board is to mainly make the PC's the star of the spaceship. If there is another squad (which it definitely can hold) it's usually only acting as a carrier so they can get to where they need to go.

's probably more accurate to have only a squadron or two aboard a ship like that. Everyone (incl. Palladium) tends to get so wrapped up in how big the dimensions of the ship are, and forget that the ships have to have considerable internal space given over to fuel, power plants, engine systems, weapons, supplies, and various other vital bits that make long-term spaceflight possible, to say nothing of the fact that all the ship's internal spaces are laid out for someone ten meters tall.

I'm glad you appreciate it. This is one of those situations where a Valkyrie should be able to take the same amount of space as a Fighter Pod or maybe a few of them.

ARMAMENT

• 14 x general purpose laser/particle beam turrets, scattered around the hull, for light anti-warship, orbital fire support, and anti-mecha duties.
• 10 x torpedo tube, capable of delivering two types of anti-warship torpedo.
• 24 x missile launcher turret, launching anti-mecha missiles.
• 50 Fighter Pods
• 1 Cyclops Reconnaissance Pod
• A few launchers and auxiliary vessels

2 Squadron's should be simple to have on board. Possibly even some spares or some Destroids.

When I run my games under the new system, I require every player needs to be able to pilot a Veritech and/or Destroid. They may not have Mecha Combat, but with the new rules they can fight in full combat capabilities, they just don't get extra's from the Mecha Combat.

So my players run as a Mixed combat force of special operatives.

[glitterboy2098]

note that the Zent fighter pods are about 4x bigger than a VF-1. (or more.. you can fit a VF-1 inside the cockpit of the fighter pod..) and the hanger decks in the show seem to be quite large due to the scale of zents.. if you install a new deck halfway up you could probably double your hangerspace for human mecha.

so 6-8 squadrons should be easily included..

[Seto Kaiba]

IIRC....the Monitor is roughly the size of the SDF-1....so converting the Zentraedi sized space to Human size could give you a decent ship to colonize with as well as the defensive (and offensive) capability of the main gun.

Slightly larger... but it doesn't have the luxury of being able to displace its mecha carrying capacity into two other dedicated ships, so it's still playing with less space.

(Another thing that tends to get overestimated along with crew sizes and mecha capacities is the long-term habitation capacity of those ships... with the sort of population density colony ships in Macross tend to lean towards, a ship the size of the Macross only really has enough space for about 10,000 people to live in the city section comfortably for an extended period of time. This number was confirmed in the creator spec for the mass produced Macross-class ships.)

I'd say using the really big Zentradi ships is more economical... there's not a lot of practical difference between shooting an enemy ship with one really big cannon or a hundred little ones, but the little ones take a lot less of the ship's volume, and that's all space you can devote to people and materiel. You could get about 50,000 people into one of the Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class fleet command battleships in relative comfort, and still have enough space for a hundred or more VFs.

note that the Zent fighter pods are about 4x bigger than a VF-1. (or more.. you can fit a VF-1 inside the cockpit of the fighter pod..) and the hanger decks in the show seem to be quite large due to the scale of zents.. if you install a new deck halfway up you could probably double your hangerspace for human mecha.

so 6-8 squadrons should be easily included..

You have to remember hangar space is going to be needed for more than just STORING VFs prior to launch... unlike Zentradi mecha, human stuff isn't maintenance-free, and optional hardware like FAST packs for space use is going to cut down on that floorplan-consumption differential VERY VERY QUICKLY. They're going to need space for heavy lift cranes, access scaffolding, and other tools for basic maintenance operations and repair work, possibly a catapult system (the Zentradi didn't use them) for launching fighters, and plenty of other tools that the Zentradi wouldn't need.


In short, the Gnerl might be bigger than a VF-1... but the VF-1 has a maintenance footprint on the hangar space and the Gnerl doesn't.

[mech798]

You have to remember hangar space is going to be needed for more than just STORING VFs prior to launch... unlike Zentradi mecha, human stuff isn't maintenance-free, and optional hardware like FAST packs for space use is going to cut down on that floorplan-consumption differential VERY VERY QUICKLY. They're going to need space for heavy lift cranes, access scaffolding, and other tools for basic maintenance operations and repair work, possibly a catapult system (the Zentradi didn't use them) for launching fighters, and plenty of other tools that the Zentradi wouldn't need.


In short, the Gnerl might be bigger than a VF-1... but the VF-1 has a maintenance footprint on the hangar space and the Gnerl doesn't.

Which is one thing to point out how advanced Zent stuff can be-- if we assume that they don't have any robotic factories (as the rpg has, without any backing in either robotech or the OSM), and no trained techs, then zentraedi equipment is scary reliable. Remember that I think the modern maintenance needs for a fighter is something like five or six hours for every hour in the air.

Edit, come to recall, this is explicitly mentioned in Macross Frontier where Klan-Klan makes a comment that *of course* you should expect a zentraedi rifle that's been floating in space for centuries to work. It's zentraedi, after all.

[ShadowLogan]

The Zent Scout ship can be used in a myriad of roles by the UEDF/ASC/UEEF, after a refit at a Robotech factory. In fact it would probably be cheaper, and faster to refit a Zent Scout ship then build a ship from scratch.

IF it wasn't for the height and the "warp nacelles" (or think of a Star Trek Shuttlecraft flying upside down) aspect, as is then they could probably be retrofitted into a Tri-Star class pretty easily. The height aspect is pretty easily managed I think if a few of the lower decks can be removed, and the ship is flipped over I could see the Tri-Star class (and it sisters) being a rebuild Zent. Scout Ship.

's probably more accurate to have only a squadron or two aboard a ship like tha

Per the RT.com Infopedia the Scout Ship carries 50 Fighter Pods & 1 Cyclops, so 2 full Squadrons should be able to be fit no problem. Given the crew breakdown is: 70 crewman, 50 pilots, 80 troops, should allow for additional mecha in Battloid mode w/o effecting the human size crew requirement as one mecha battloid could equal the space of 1 giant (and the mecha doesn't need access to the entire ship).

Also If the Cyclops ship is removed for something smaller and more efficient for a human crew that can handle the mission, the count can go up further still. I mean a Cyclops has a crew of 3 giants (Bron/Rico/Konda), plus room to walk around (Rick's VF-1 did walk around), plus an escape capsule for the crew of 3 (cramped, 2E RPG says they have 2), and a cargo bay that can be configured to carry additional mecha (6 MPA). So another "light" squadron of fighters is certainly possible if they are in Battloid mode allowing for (3+1+3+3+6=) 16 units and that doesn't count the space freed up from the Cyclops systems or space allows for more than 1 VF-1 Battloid to walk around, only the crew considerations.

[Seto Kaiba]

Edit, come to recall, this is explicitly mentioned in Macross Frontier where Klan-Klan makes a comment that *of course* you should expect a zentraedi rifle that's been floating in space for centuries to work. It's zentraedi, after all.

Yep, though that's not the first time that's been thrown out there... it's actually something they hang a BIG lampshade on in Macross II's setting, where the UN Spacy improves their hardware through duplicating the actuator technology.

Per the RT.com Infopedia the Scout Ship carries 50 Fighter Pods & 1 Cyclops, so 2 full Squadrons should be able to be fit no problem.

This is another reason not to trust information made up by Robotech fans... you end up with ridiculous garbage like that. Spatial relationships has always been an acknowledged issue with the stats developed by the uRRG writers, and this is a particularly absurd example. The physical dimensions stated for the ship on the Infopedia page don't match its physical dimensions even slightly... if this ship is 500m long, then just on the basis of the line art, it cannot be more than about 120m tall and wide. They list it as somehow being a whopping 355m meters tall despite only being 500m long on the Infopedia... which is obviously incorrect at a glance.

I mean, seriously... FIFTY Gnerls AND a Quel-Quallie? In THAT space? Who do you think you're kidding? I mean, the Quel-Quallie is A HUNDRED A THIRTY METERS LONG AND SIXTY METERS WIDE. That won't even fit through the hangar door... and by a considerable margin! We're talking it being 10-20m too wide to even fit through the door! With the dimensions of the hangar door, the only way to even fit that number of Gnerls in there is to add about forty meters to the total length of the ship and run the hangar the entire new length.

Unless this ship is secretly a Tardis... it's not going to work.

This may actually be a worse screw-up than the Alpha's gun pod, which would have to be larger than the Alpha itself to have the caliber listed without changing its proportions.

[ShadowLogan]

The physical dimensions stated for the ship on the Infopedia page don't match its physical dimensions even slightly... if this ship is 500m long, then just on the basis of the line art, it cannot be more than about 120m tall and wide. They list it as somehow being a whopping 355m meters tall despite only being 500m long on the Infopedia... which is obviously incorrect at a glance.

I'm not going to argue/debate this. All I am saying is that the official size/stats put out by HG is what I used (it is also the basis for the size comparison chart). I could toss out ideas on how the Cyclops and Gnerls can fit, but I'm not. Also per the Invasion/MB1 comic series, a Cyclops IS part of the compliment that arrives in the Solar System (though it doesn't deploy Gnerls).

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm not going to argue/debate this.

Because you don't have a leg to stand on...

They say a picture's worth a thousand words, so here's a nice visual comparison that illustrates why the figures you're quoting are worse than useless.

Seriously, even I wasn't expecting that. I lol'd IRL.

[glitterboy2098]

seto, where do you get the size of the hanger hatch? we never saw one deploy troops in the show, to my knowledge.

[Seto Kaiba]

seto, where do you get the size of the hanger hatch? we never saw one deploy troops in the show, to my knowledge.

Production line art... the fact that these things are labeled on the animation model sheets makes my job a lot easier.

[glitterboy2098]

ah, that thing at the back?

are you sure that the scoutship would deploy from the same hatch? maybe that bublge at the bottom opens up for a dedicated hanger or something.

also, in regards to logistical footprints.. much of that is not on the hangerdeck, but rather in terms of parts and tool storage, which could be placed elsewhere on the ship. plenty of old zent quarters to convert to warehouses for such stuff. that should let you carry at least 50% more mecha, since human ones are smaller than zent ones, and as we see on the SDF-1, most of the basic maintence issues are done in the same hangerspace as they us to store the planes between missions.. and you could certainly adapt some of the zent quarters to be repair yards forthe more complex stuff as well, given the size of the rooms and corridors.

and from the show, zent hangers are fricken tall.. human mecha wouldn't need much more than 60ft-70ft ceilings, so you should be able to add an extra deck into the hanger area, which doubles your floorspace, and would nearly double your mecha compliment.

[Seto Kaiba]

ah, that thing at the back?

are you sure that the scoutship would deploy from the same hatch? maybe that bublge at the bottom opens up for a dedicated hanger or something.

Positive... because the Zentradi picket ship is never identified as carrying anything other than Gnerls. Their main hangar isn't designed to take anything the size of a Quel-Quallie.

also, in regards to logistical footprints.. much of that is not on the hangerdeck, but rather in terms of parts and tool storage, which could be placed elsewhere on the ship.

Except for the space necessary to actually do the work... and the larger bits of equipment like hoists, cranes, and loading hardware.

[mech798]

One of the larger advantages of using a big zentraedi ship is you could use the extra space to install non-protoculture power systems. that makes you independent of a limited resource that might find itself seized for the needs of the UEEG.

[taalismn]

One of the larger advantages of using a big zentraedi ship is you could use the extra space to install non-protoculture power systems. that makes you independent of a limited resource that might find itself seized for the needs of the UEEG.

Of course, depending on what technologies you use, you might end up with something like the old Daedalus Starprobes, where most of the weight is reaction mass to feed the engines, and a much reduced usable payload.

[sanka]

Lett's look at the Ford class carriers.
337m long by 42 wide. carries 75+ aircraft.

So a 500m long 120m wide spacecraft should be able to take the same numbers at least. The fold systems, weapons and engines should take much more space then the propulsion of a carrier, but the extra space should allow for a decend mecha compliment..
Also the fighter mecha could all launch and land in gerwalk or guardian mode for easy storage.
Adapt two bays to launch mecha into combat, and the third for repairs....

But at the end it's all to de DM.........

[mech798]

Lett's look at the Ford class carriers.
337m long by 42 wide. carries 75+ aircraft.

So a 500m long 120m wide spacecraft should be able to take the same numbers at least. The fold systems, weapons and engines should take much more space then the propulsion of a carrier, but the extra space should allow for a decend mecha compliment..
Also the fighter mecha could all launch and land in gerwalk or guardian mode for easy storage.
Adapt two bays to launch mecha into combat, and the third for repairs....

But at the end it's all to de DM.........

ell note that the Ford doesn't need to worry about bringing a full-up lifesupport system with it. Probably a better look at the "people per ton" ratio that you would get with a spaceshp would be a submarine.

[sanka]

Lett's look at the Ford class carriers.
337m long by 42 wide. carries 75+ aircraft.

So a 500m long 120m wide spacecraft should be able to take the same numbers at least. The fold systems, weapons and engines should take much more space then the propulsion of a carrier, but the extra space should allow for a decend mecha compliment..
Also the fighter mecha could all launch and land in gerwalk or guardian mode for easy storage.
Adapt two bays to launch mecha into combat, and the third for repairs....

But at the end it's all to de DM.........

ell note that the Ford doesn't need to worry about bringing a full-up lifesupport system with it. Probably a better look at the "people per ton" ratio that you would get with a spaceshp would be a submarine.

Oh, come on... The Zentraedi scout is twice as wide...
And it's a game, not a physics class....

[Seto Kaiba]

Lett's look at the Ford class carriers.
337m long by 42 wide. carries 75+ aircraft.

Let's not... because you have to remember that, unlike the Gerald R. Ford-class aircraft carriers, they didn't lay out the interior of a Zentradi ship to accept human-sized crew. That means that, right off the bat, you've got a lot of wasted space and completely rebuilding the interior of such a ship would take more time and resources than just building a new ship from scratch around salvaged drive systems and reactors, such as the Tristar-class.

There is also the slight problem that an ocean-going ship doesn't need to drag around a bunch of things the Zentradi ships, as starships, do have to bring. They have to lug around breathing mixture so the crew won't suffocate, they have to carry fuel and reaction mass for the ship's engines and those of the fighters, and the various systems that an oceangoing ship has no use for... like artificial gravity systems (shown in the series to be quite large), fold systems, gun and missile turrets on a scale human ships don't even bother with, and even systems of the same basic job like engines take up a greater proportion of the ship's mass than they'd do on an oceangoing vessel.

You have to remember, a surface-going ship takes a lot of things for granted and is really NOT designed for long-term independent operation. They have to resupply FREQUENTLY just to keep the crew fed.

Oh, come on... The Zentraedi scout is twice as wide...
And it's a game, not a physics class....

Not uniformly... the maximum cross-section of the Zentradi picket ship is only about 120m (never mind the Robotech stats, which don't match the actual proportions of the ship in the art), and most of that is its engines. The main body of the ship is only about as wide as the aircraft carrier, but the actual hangar space is far smaller, being about 1/2 as wide as the aircraft carrier's deck.

[taalismn]

Forget about 'pill rations' or 'protein block' rations to save mass and cubic space when factoring in supplies. Unless you're a Zentraedi who's never had contact with micronians and thus is used to the stuff, so-called 'super-science diets' would quickly result in mutiny(fun factoid: the stuff we see in museum gift shops, such as 'freeze-dried ice cream' and other 'astronaut food' is the REJECTED stuff from space program menus). Proper physical and psychological health is best maintained with a varied diet, including a fair amount of chewable roughage, which translates into bulk(Zentraedi fiber rations, though, probably looked like old beef jerky or milkbones and tasted like cardboard...and probably could be used by micronians as a substitute for plywood).

[Seto Kaiba]

Forget about 'pill rations' or 'protein block' rations to save mass and cubic space when factoring in supplies. Unless you're a Zentraedi who's never had contact with micronians and thus is used to the stuff, so-called 'super-science diets' would quickly result in mutiny [...]

Assuming, of course, that the stuff even exists in the Robotech setting... what little we see of what the Zentradi eat and drink suggests they eat "normal" food (though one must wonder where one finds a chicken big enough to donate a two meter tall drumstick). The cafeteria scene in RTSC seems to indicate that troops living in deep space still have access to something resembling normal food and imported liquor, which raises an interesting question... where is the food coming from? Are they creating synthetic food by recycling the ship's waste matter somehow (protein synthesis, replicators, etc.) or are they importing food from an allied planet?

If the OSM is anything to go by*, the larger Zentradi ships would have more than enough room for tens of thousands of colonists AND some not-inconsiderable "natural" spaces for recreation and food and oxygen production... though the bulk of the available food would probably be synthetically produced.


* The Megaroad-class emigration ships of the Macross 'verse had, by design, "natural" spaces near the stern, where the hull becomes cross-shaped... only a couple hundred meters long on a 1.8 kilometer-long ship, but it's something. A Zentradi ship as much as twice that length should have room for even more substantial agrarian pursuits.

[glitterboy2098]

in regards to zent food.. i'd assume synthesized food. we know that the master's had the ability to clone entire people or specific parts.. it wouldn't be too hard to assume the same tech got applied to meat animal, so you can get the meat, even the bones, without having to raise the full animal. and processing of simpler materials could create bread, drink, etc..

even if the zent ships themselves couldn't do it, the factory sat's certainly would have the space to do it in bulk.

[Seto Kaiba]

in regards to zent food.. i'd assume synthesized food. we know that the master's had the ability to clone entire people or specific parts.. it wouldn't be too hard to assume the same tech got applied to meat animal, so you can get the meat, even the bones, without having to raise the full animal. and processing of simpler materials could create bread, drink, etc..

even if the zent ships themselves couldn't do it, the factory sat's certainly would have the space to do it in bulk.

Kinda reminds me of Transmetropolitan, where future humanity had taken to selectively cloning animals and even people for food, but without actual brains (just a brainstem for autonomic function) to make it technically "cruelty free".

[taalismn]

[even if the zent ships themselves couldn't do it, the factory sat's certainly would have the space to do it in bulk.

Kinda reminds me of Transmetropolitan, where future humanity had taken to selectively cloning animals and even people for food, but without actual brains (just a brainstem for autonomic function) to make it technically "cruelty free".[/quote]


Battle Angel Alita, where the Venusian post-humans are cloning hominids for meat. It gets so bad that a junketing group of Venusian tourists wonder if a passing bunch of small (baseline) human tikes would taste good.

Annnndddd at the other end, you have the Waltrip version of the 'Dirty Pair' where they feature genetically-engineered semi-sentient snack foods(including a doll-sized 'snack man' in a business suit who screams when his limbs are bitten off).

[Seto Kaiba]

Annnndddd at the other end, you have the Waltrip version of the 'Dirty Pair' where they feature genetically-engineered semi-sentient snack foods(including a doll-sized 'snack man' in a business suit who screams when his limbs are bitten off).

You mean Adam Warren, right? The Dirty Pair comics were his... though he seems to have a somewhat unhealthy fixation with cannibalism in his work.

I doubt the UEEF would go as far as cloned human meat, but if they don't have something analogous to the replicators of Star Trek fame it would make sense for them to be using reprocessed waste matter as a base material for fast-cloning edible livestock or to at least assemble a passable synthetic imitation of meat and other food products.

[taalismn]

Annnndddd at the other end, you have the Waltrip version of the 'Dirty Pair' where they feature genetically-engineered semi-sentient snack foods(including a doll-sized 'snack man' in a business suit who screams when his limbs are bitten off).

You mean Adam Warren, right? The Dirty Pair comics were his... though he seems to have a somewhat unhealthy fixation with cannibalism in his work.

I doubt the UEEF would go as far as cloned human meat, but if they don't have something analogous to the replicators of Star Trek fame it would make sense for them to be using reprocessed waste matter as a base material for fast-cloning edible livestock or to at least assemble a passable synthetic imitation of meat and other food products.

I stand corrected; it was Adam Warren. Senility begins. Now come closer so I can hit you with my walker.